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@cristo71
I accept your concession
US debt has never caused us a problem
Posts
Total:
118
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@Vegasgiants
It’s a myth that bacon causes cancer.:
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@Sir.Lancelot
Potatoes are nice for breakfast
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@FLRW
Yep. And not a problem
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@Vegasgiants
I don't see the problem. Those programs do not exist without the debt
You are saying that various government programs are FUNDED by borrowing money. Thus there are two costs ( the cost for the program and the cost for the borrowed money). You don't see that as a problem?
Here is an equivalent case. A homeowner gets a bill from the electric utility. Instead of paying the bill with EARNED money, the homeowner borrows the money to pay the bill. Now next month there are two bills( the electric bill AND the loan bill ). It goes into and endless cycle and ends in bankruptcy.
Now do you see the problem?
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@Vegasgiants
Yes at some point the debt could be a problem. I don't think we are there yet
"The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that interest payments will total $663 billion in fiscal year 2023....(https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/05/what-is-the-national-debt-costing-us#:~:text=The%20Congressional%20Budget%20Office%20(CBO,trillion%20over%20the%20next%20decade.)
So there are 663,000,000,000 problems right now! Your thesis that the debt is not a problem is wrong by a factor of billions.
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@prefix
Not one single problem.
Almost every country has debt. Sane for most households abd all corporations .
You cant name a single problem the debt causes
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@prefix
So you believe we should have no debt?
How silly
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@Vegasgiants
You cant name a single problem the debt causes.
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@Greyparrot
Nothing to do with our debt
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@Vegasgiants
Sure it does. Interest rates are based on our projected GDP. If our GDP falls (value of equity on our national debt), creditors are going to ask for more through higher interest rates as we don't have as much ability to pay back our debts.
If the government's ability to generate revenue and meet its financial obligations is compromised, it may result in increased borrowing or a higher perceived risk of default. In response, lenders may demand higher interest rates to compensate for the perceived increased risk associated with lending to the government. This can lead to a rise in national debt interest payments.
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@Greyparrot
But falling and rising gdp is not related to debt. There is no correlation
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@Greyparrot
Great. Then show me the correlation that when debt to gdp increases interests rate also increase.
There is no correlation
Our debt is the best debt in the world to have
Debt to GDP ratio is a major factor in assessing credit risk. That's the correlation.
A higher debt-to-GDP ratio indicates that a country's debt is relatively large compared to its economic output. This can raise concerns about the government's ability to manage its debt, make interest payments, and maintain fiscal stability. It suggests a higher risk of default or challenges in meeting debt obligations.
Credit rating agencies like Moody's consider the debt-to-GDP ratio, (among other factors) when assessing a country's creditworthiness. A higher debt-to-GDP ratio may lead credit rating agencies to lower a country's credit rating or revise their outlook on its creditworthiness. This can result in higher borrowing costs for the government and potentially affect investor confidence. that cost is passed down to every American.
One real-world example of a country that experienced a downgrade in its credit rating as its debt-to-GDP ratio increased is Greece. Greece faced a severe debt crisis around the late 2000s and early 2010s, which resulted in a significant downgrade of credit rating.
Prior to the crisis, Greece had accumulated a high level of public debt relative to its GDP. As the country's debt burden increased, concerns grew about its ability to meet its financial obligations, including making interest payments on its debt.
Credit rating agencies, such as Standard & Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch Ratings, downgraded Greece's credit rating during the crisis. The downgrades reflected the increasing risk associated with lending to Greece, as the country's debt levels became unsustainable relative to its economic output. The downgrades contributed to higher borrowing costs for the Greek government and heightened market concerns about its ability to manage its debt. Greece then had to pay much higher payments on the accumulated debt.
The Greek debt crisis serves as a historic example of how a high debt-to-GDP ratio can contribute to a loss of credit rating.
Argentina had a similar crisis in 2001 and 2018. PM me if you want more examples.
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@Greyparrot
And what does moodys rate our credit right now as?
You keep making my case for me
The debt is causing us no problems
You are trying to forecast future problems that may or may not happen
You are trying to forecast future problems that may or may not happen
This is our historical record. You decide what the trend is.
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@Greyparrot
OK great. I see no correlation to interest rates
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@Vegasgiants
I gave you 2 examples where there was. PM me for more examples if you want more.
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@Greyparrot
No you did not. There is no correlation between interest rates and debt. Our debt is increasing and our interest rates are falling
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@Greyparrot
This doesn't even mention interest rates
In a brief summary.
The argument is that a form ofnational debt started the civil war as states began to print their own money.Looking back at the start of the Gold and Silver Standard, not all states hadgold or silver mines. Most states in America who had gold deposits had beenbought from Nations like Spain and France using Federal purchasing powers. TheGold and sivler by mineral rights was the property of the Federal Government and was soonused as a standard of collateral. At or during the times shortly before theCivil war credit was printted money the paper issued by state was an easy credit process andplaces credit in the hands of people in an economy in a theoretical sense only.The promise of money is then spent based on people that do not have a historyof supporting the rating they are assigned by spending formulated elsewhere inan economy.
For the sake of simplicity, Iwill not go over details of how Wars between Nations on the continent of Africabetween English, German, French, and Spanish plaid into the hands ofprivateers. Placing POW in the hands of private citizens, some by investinglimited funds and others using finance banking loans affected credit during thetimes before the Civil War. Not disagreeing about bad and poor overall treatmentsof military forces held captive in private hands. Only that it is an argumentworthy of its own focus. This all just another example of adequate or inadequatePresidential abilities to leadership of American United States Constitutionalrights
Do either of you consider democracy, Civil lawsuits, and medical treatments a part of GDP?
US debt has not caused us a problem in the past, but it could start to cause problems in the future if it continues to grow. The US government borrows money to finance a whole range of activities, such as infrastructure, defense, and social welfare programs. This borrowing is done by selling securities to investors, both domestically and internationally. If US debt continues to grow at the current rate, it could eventually become a problem and affect our ability to make financial commitments. Therefore, it is crucial to monitor and manage the US debt and make sure it is sustainable in the long term.
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@Vegasgiants
The Republicans love to scream about the debt. I have been hearing about it since ReaganBut it has bever caused us a single problem
The fact that a standard basket of goods is grossly overpriced would be an example of the debt causing problems.
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@Athias
Overpriced is sn opinion
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@Vegasgiants
Overpriced is sn opinion
So is the concept of "a problem." Why bring it up, then?
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@Athias
OK thanks. We're done
The debt has nothing to do with goods that are over priced
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@Vegasgiants
The debt has nothing to do with goods that are over priced
Yes it most certainly does. My statement was a reference to the CPI. Do some research into it.
OK thanks. We're done
Your call.
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@Athias
There is no correlation to cpi and debt.
We have more debt than ever and inflation is receding
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@Vegasgiants
There is no correlation to cpi and debt.
Yes there is. Real debt is determined by dividing the nominal debt by price level.
We have more debt than ever and inflation is receding
Inflation isn't receding; which CPI summary have you read? Because I assure you it isn't recent.