Climate change is getting worse

Author: Vegasgiants

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Sir.Lancelot
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@FLRW
@ADreamOfLiberty
@Vegasgiants
As a self-proclaimed expert on the Global Warming hoax, I can certainly say it is the only myth that society and science bends backwards deeply for.
The fraud Wallace Broecker wanted to fabricate something so that politicians could rob its citizens of money by taxing them extra for these bogus policies, so he fabricated the end of the world and named the phenomenon, "Global Warming."

They also did something similar back in 1969 when they staged the Moon Landing.
Sir.Lancelot
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My intuition also tells me the links posted by Vegasgiants are fake.

Check into them and let me know what you find.
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@Vegasgiants

1,043,830,278 billion and growing,

..... eating, using finite set of resources, over polluting environment with their wastes,

......causing erratic climate change,  without enough recognition pf the ecological environment that,

......sustain there greed for taking more and more, with not enough return to their life sustaining Earth. 
ebuc
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@FLRW
Did you notice that Sir.Lancelot is Con on his Global Warming/Climate Change is a hoax topic?
Con or corn as in corny thought processing.

1,043,830,278 billion and growing,

..... eating, using finite set of resources, over polluting environment with their wastes,

......causing erratic climate change,  without enough recognition pf the ecological environment that,

......sustain there greed for taking more and more, with not enough return to their life sustaining Earth. 

FLRW
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@Sir.Lancelot

You are a Christian, right?
YouFound_Lxam
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@Vegasgiants
There is more to the story. Over the last decade, total global emissions declined.  Deaths from natural disasters have diminished to a few hundred a year in the United States. Even as the global population has quadrupled over the last century, they have declined internationally by over 90%. The Great Barrier Reef recorded the highest amount of coral in 36 years, and maybe longer, because that's the amount of time we have been studying and measuring. 

What do you say to that? 

Sir.Lancelot
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@FLRW
Jesus is King.
Mps1213
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@ebuc
Are you saying the greenhouse effect doesn’t exist? If so would you like to have a rated debate on the topic? 
Mps1213
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@YouFound_Lxam
I would say that is all very good news. However that doesn’t really change the fact the climate is changing. It can be argued that humans aren’t the driving force of it (I don’t believe we are) but it’s still something we need to be concerned over. The biggest mass extinctions in history have been caused by climate change. So it’s not something we need to ignore. We need to make sure as a species we are attributing the the changing climate as minimally as possible. The pattern that often pops up in the historical records, is that the climate changed generslly start off pretty slow, and then snap to an absurd amount of change in a very short period of time. For example 11,600 years ago temperatures rose 18 degrees in just a few decades. There are also 25 separate events called Dansgaard-Oeschger events where the temperature rose 5-15 degrees in less than 25 years. If that happens today our civilization will crumble. Unless we can find a way to prepare for it. 
ebuc
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@Mps1213
Are you saying the greenhouse effect doesn’t exist?

Nope. Ive never stated such nor every would and have stated the opposite here at DArt former Dart and every forum Ive ever existed in.

YouFound_Lxam
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@Mps1213
I would say that is all very good news. However that doesn’t really change the fact the climate is changing. It can be argued that humans aren’t the driving force of it (I don’t believe we are) but it’s still something we need to be concerned over.
I do believe the climate is changing as well, but it's nothing new. 
We have had drastic changes in the weather all throughout history. 
The earth has been way colder, and now it's just heating up.

The earth has heated up before, and then got colder once again. 
It will do the same thing. 

 The biggest mass extinctions in history have been caused by climate change.
We think that they were caused by climate change. 

We need to make sure as a species we are attributing the the changing climate as minimally as possible.
They actually did a study on this. If every single person on earth stopped using fossil fuels, almost nothing would change in the climate. Almost nothing..................


ebuc
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@YouFound_Lxam
They actually did a study on this.

Any study that global warming is hoax by you via other is  itself the hoax.

  There is label for people like you who do what your doing. Taking a false narrative opposite view of the facts and truth and suggesting the false narrative is fact and truth.

Trumpeteer label perhaps.  I'm sure there are others. Troll? 

YouFound_Lxam
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@ebuc
Any study that global warming is hoax by you via other is  itself the hoax.
The study didn't deny Global Warming. 
It simply told us that even if everyone went carbon neutral, it would make little to no change. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
The study you read is misleading. CO2 is one of the most important greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere. So of course if we increase the concentration of it in our atmosphere, it will exert a warming effect. However warming isn’t the only thing that CO2 emissions effect. It’s also not including plastics and their effect on environment and climate. There are many other aspects to the human input on climate than just CO2. You’re not talking about methane, particulate matter, etc.

Also if you’re talking about temperature  change alone, then sure it may not change much. However if you look ocean acidification then our emissions play a huge role. If the oceans become much more acidified a lot of climate regulating life in the ocean will die, which will cause other problems. 


ebuc
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@YouFound_Lxam
The study didn't deny Global Warming.
Well that it good to hear. G. Bush Junior changed his position about global warming while if office. He finally came to accept the obvious science facts and truths in those regards, however, he fell short by saying he didnt think humans have any part in it.

Well that was before 9/11 and after some year{s} after 9/11 a new fact came onto the world stage, relating to those three days when most jet traffic ceased. Global temperatures rose at many global temp recording sites, because there was less jet fuel in the atmosphere to block out the infra-red heat frequencies hitting land and sea.
YouFound_Lxam
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@Mps1213
The study you read is misleading. CO2 is one of the most important greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere. So of course if we increase the concentration of it in our atmosphere, it will exert a warming effect. However warming isn’t the only thing that CO2 emissions effect. It’s also not including plastics and their effect on environment and climate. There are many other aspects to the human input on climate than just CO2. You’re not talking about methane, particulate matter, etc.

Also if you’re talking about temperature  change alone, then sure it may not change much. However if you look ocean acidification then our emissions play a huge role. If the oceans become much more acidified a lot of climate regulating life in the ocean will die, which will cause other problems. 
Not listening.

I am not talking about what is causing it.

I am saying that even if every human on earth did everything in their power to stop it, it would change almost nothing, so why the push for everyone going carbon neutral and other things like that? 
Mps1213
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@YouFound_Lxam
You just said you’re not listening and it shows. For someone who has Jordan Peterson as their profile picture you do very little thinking. He’d be disappointed in you. 

I already explained why, but I’ll do again. Maybe you’ll listen this time. CO2 warms the atmosphere. when the earth gets too warm, it can do very unpredictable things. For example we can look at Dansgaard-Oeschger events. Where a feed back loop started and the earth slowly warmed up, until it got too warm. Then it would snap, causing 5-15 temperature raises globally in less than 10 years. Other events went the other way, where temperatures dropped by 18 degrees in some cases globally. We as a species need to make sure we are contributing to this issue as little as possible, by limiting our emissions, among other things, we can do that. Just because something isn’t a problem now doesn’t mean it won’t become one in the future. 
Mps1213
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@YouFound_Lxam
Jordan wouldn’t be disappointed In you, that was a little harsh. Instead he’d be disappointed at the idea of you not listening and not deeply considering something you’re willing to make a claim about. He’s been very vocal about how much he dislikes that, even in his students when they write papers. 
TWS1405_2
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Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech
Obliquity – The angle Earth’s axis of rotation is tilted as it travels around the Sun is known as obliquity. Obliquity is why Earth has seasons. Over the last million years, it has varied between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees with respect to Earth’s orbital plane. The greater Earth’s axial tilt angle, the more extreme our seasons are, as each hemisphere receives more solar radiation during its summer, when the hemisphere is tilted toward the Sun, and less during winter, when it is tilted away. Larger tilt angles favor periods of deglaciation (the melting and retreat of glaciers and ice sheets). These effects aren’t uniform globally -- higher latitudes receive a larger change in total solar radiation than areas closer to the equator.


Human beings have nothing to do with the climate and any hypothesized (and unproven) changes allegedly caused by man; rather it has everything to do with the axial tilt of the Earth in its orbit around the sun. 

End of story.

Well, sort of. Earth is spherical, not flat, as someone else here might claim *wink wink*


Mps1213
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@TWS1405_2
Simply not true. 

What about the earth Axial tilt is acidifying the ocean? What about the Earth Axial tilt is releasing particulate matter into the Air? What about the Earth Axial tilt is releasing methane and CO2 into the Air? What about the Earth axial tilt has caused a 68% drop in animal populations? What about the Axial tilt has made humans cut down forests and trees and drive animals to extinction? 



The earth Axial tilt Is one variable in the multi varied issue that powers our climate. however there are so many instances of that having nothing to do with climate changes. The Younger dryas was not caused by changes in the Milankovitch cycle. The little Ice age wasn’t caused by it, the Medieval warm period wasn’t caused by it. Etc. The list goes on forever. 

This is honestly the biggest over simplification of the climate sciences I’ve ever seen. There wouldn’t be entire degree plans and Thousands of scientists studying it if it was determined by one cycle that we’ve known about for a long time now. 

I don’t even think humans are the driving force of climate change, but the oversimplification of this topic on this website is hilarious. Coming from people who try to act like experts in every topic. So sit down Archie Bunker and stick to your rage bait politics. 

Do you have any form of mathematics, physics, or chemistry to say that humans have no effect on the climate? Because there is a lot of math, chemistry, and physics that points out very clearly that CO2 warms the atmosphere. I will paste that information below. If you can’t overcome this quality of evidence then you need to change your opinion from over simplification to actual consideration of how science and math works. I know there is no point in attempting to change your mind, so this is all I will stick with. You try to be an expert on everything which is why you’re arguments in this topic pick out one variable in the entire equation of climate sciences. I’ve been in school for this shit for 3 years, it’s much more complicated than the milankovitch cycle. Which is something you learn and prove in a legitimate introduction to geoscience class. Everyone knows what it does, and yes it’s a very powerful climate changer, but it certainly doesn’t power everything besides large scale glacial retreats and climate epochs. It does not control nor determine small intermediate climate changes between those types of events. Like I listed, the LIA was not a product of this, the MWP was not a product of this, the YD was not a product of this, the 25 separate Dansgaard-Oeschger events were not a product of this. Theres so many more that had nothing to do with this cycle. 

Below is evidence that uses Mathematics and basic physics to explain how CO2 warms the atmosphere and how we can prove it. Like I said Theres really no point in engaging with you so I know I’m wasting my breath. However, it’s worth st least trying to help you learn and make you humble yourself a bit to accept you’re not an expert in everything.

I won’t respond to you so say whatever over simplified foolish shit about this topic you’d like to. Just know that there’s a whole lot of evidence saying humans do impact the climate and also know that you simply don’t know what you’re talking about if You think the Milankovitch cycle is the end of the story when it comes to climate sciences and climate change. 

“Now part two of the recipe: how hot will the extra CO2 make us? Most physics students, once they learn about radiative heat transfer (affectionately called sigma-T-to-the-fourth), are tasked with calculating the Earth’s temperature in radiative equilibrium with the Sun. If done “correctly,” the answer is disappointingly cold because the greenhouse effect is not incorporated in the simple calculation.
The way it works is, the sun imbues a radiative flux of 1370 Watts per square meter at the position of the Earth. Given its radius of R = 6378 km, the Earth intercepts 1370 W/m² × πR² of the incident sunlight, since the Earth appears as a projected disk to the Sun. Most of this incident flux is absorbed in the oceans, land, atmosphere, and clouds, while the remainder is immediately reflected back to space so the aliens can see our planet. The absorbed part (70%) heats the earth surface environment and eventually is re-radiated to space as thermal infrared radiation, at wavelengths centered at about 10 microns—far beyond human vision (0.4 to 0.7 microns).
The law for thermal radiation is that a surface emits a total radiative power of A·σT4, where A is the surface area, σ=5.67×10−8 W/m²/K4 is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant, and Tis the surface temperature in Kelvin. For instance, a patch of Earth at the average surface temperature of 288 K (15°C, or 59°F) emits 390 W/m² of infrared radiation. To figure out the temperature of the Earth, we demand that power in equals power out, and radiative transfer is the only game in town for getting heat on and off the Earth. If we did not have a balance between power in and power out, the Earth’s temperature would change until equilibrium was re-established. Hey—that’s what global warming is doing.  But let’s not get ahead of ourselves…
While the Earth intercepts a column of light from the sun with area πR², the Earth has a surface area of 4πR² to radiate. Considering that 70% of the incoming sunlight is in play, we have an effective influx of 960 W/m² onto one quarter of the Earth’s surface area (why not half? much of the Sun-side of the Earth is tilted to the sun and does not receive direct, overhead sunlight). So the radiated part must work out to 240 W/m², which implies an effective temperature of 255 K, or a bone-chilling −18°C (about 0°F). Incidentally, if the Earth were black as coal, absorbing all incident solar radiation, the answer would have been a more satisfactory 279 K, or 6°C, but still colder than observed.
We know that 255 K is the wrong answer; off by 33°C. The discrepancy is the greenhouse effect, and to this we owe our comfort and our liquid oceans. The greenhouse gases absorb some of the outbound infrared radiation and re-radiate in all directions, sending some of the energy back toward Earth. Two-thirds of the effect (about 22°C) is from water vapor, about one-fifth (~7°C) is from carbon dioxide, and the remaining 15% is from a mix of other gases, including methane.

One can see from the absorption figure that water vapor is responsible for the lion’s share of the infrared absorption at relevant wavelengths (under the blue curve), but that the CO2 absorption feature from 13–17 microns also eats some of the spectrum. A crude assessment tells me that the spectrally-weighted water absorption across the outgoing wavelength range is approximately three times as significant as the CO2 absorption feature, reassuringly in line with the 22:7 ratio.

Crudely speaking, if CO2 is responsible for 7 of the 33 degrees of the greenhouse effect, we can easily predict the equilibrium consequences of an increase in CO2. We have so far increased the concentration of CO2 from 280 ppm to 390 ppm, or about 40%. Since I have some ambiguity about whether the 7 K contribution to the surface temperature is based on the current CO2 concentration or the pre-industrial figure, we’ll look at it both ways and see it doesn’t matter much at this level of analysis. If CO2 increased the pre-industrial surface temperature by 7 K, then adding 40% more CO2 would increase the temperature by 7×0.4 = 2.8 K. If we instead say that 7 K is the current CO2 contribution, the associated increase is 7−7/1.4 = 2 K. Either way, the increase is in line with estimates of warming—though the system has a lag due to the heat capacity of oceans, slowing down the rate of temperature increase.

Keep in mind that these figures are based on today’s CO2 concentrations, not the impact of continuing to burn vast amounts of fossil fuels. We have spent about half our total conventional petroleum, and less than half of our total fossil fuel deposits. Thus the ultimate temperature climb could be well over 5 K (9°F) if we continue our practices unabated.

Using a linear relationship between CO2 and temperature change does not constitute a correct treatment, and would fail miserably for large adjustments to CO2 (like a factor of 2 or 3). But for the 40% change under consideration, it captures the direction and approximate magnitude of the effect reasonably well, which is the strength of the estimation approach: get the essential behavior without the burden of unnecessary complexity. A real treatment would acknowledge the saturated nature of the 15 micron absorption feature and use ΔT = C·ln(390/280), where ln() is the natural logarithm function, and C≈2.9–6.5 K according to the IPCC. This leads to an expected increase of 1–2 K at today’s excess concentration. But the point is already made without the fancy pants.“

Mps1213
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Would you like to have a rated debate on this topic? Resolution is simply “CO2 has been proven to warm the atmosphere.” After I asked you for evidence of the quality and caliber I provided in my most recent post, you went silent. Is it because you haven’t found any math or physics to compete with that last post? Or are you just tired of the conversation? 

Notice how the information I supplied also quixkly covers you’re entire argument. The lag between heat increase and CO2 release. it’s such a simple and well reported concept it only takes 1 sentence to adequately explain. So that right there covers your graphs and your questions and claims about what the data mean. 
YouFound_Lxam
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@Mps1213
CO2 warms the atmosphere.
Ok. 
 when the earth gets too warm, it can do very unpredictable things.
(Capitalize your "W"). It can. 

 Dansgaard-Oeschger
 Dansgaard-Oeschger events are rapid climate fluctuations that occurred 25 times during the last glacial period. The last glacial period lasted just about 115,000 to 11,700 years long. Now, your argument would make sense if the fluctuations gradually started to rise more dramatically than ever, once humans started using fossil fuels, and things of that matter. But we know that can't be true, because it has fluctuated down and up in temperature not just up. 

 Where a feed back loop started and the earth slowly warmed up, until it got too warm. Then it would snap, causing 5-15 temperature raises globally in less than 10 years. 
I mean, this is what they scared us with 50, 40, 30, and even 20, years ago, and climate change activists and people in power are still trying to scare us with it today. 
It never happened before when they said it, why is it any different now? 

Other events went the other way, where temperatures dropped by 18 degrees in some cases globally. We as a species need to make sure we are contributing to this issue as little as possible, by limiting our emissions, among other things, we can do that. Just because something isn’t a problem now doesn’t mean it won’t become one in the future. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Nothing you said disproves my final point. The earth is warming (likely naturally) we need to not aid that warming as much as possible. We have increased temperature by .8 kelvin from CO2 emissions alone. That is a very, very little amount. However we need to not continue to do that, because as it warms naturally, it will release more CO2 into the atmosphere that is stored by glaciers. 

We need to not be a piece in that equation if possible. So even though we have had very little effect as of now, doesn’t mean we won’t down the line. 

We can prove the warming caused by CO2 mathematically. Im not convinced by any articles written by journalists on any sort of scientific topic. They are wrong all of the time. I trust the data, math and evidence uncovered by scientists that never make it to journalistic magazines because it isn’t interesting enough. 

We need to stop emitting CO2 so we can lower our impact on a naturally warming world. I’m not sure what you’re arguing with. I never said anything about a DO event happening now, I was just explaining how fickle the climate can be when things start to warm. And yes of course temps have fluctuated, the LIA basically just ended and people are surprised the earth is warming. That’s supposed to happen and likely would’ve happened anyway. However we can’t pretend that adding more energy and heat to the system is something we should ignore. 
Vegasgiants
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@YouFound_Lxam
I see no evidence of that
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@Sir.Lancelot
Watch out for the lizard people!!!!!!!
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@TWS1405_2
"In 2005, NASA scientists calculated that the shift of water mass stored by the dams would increase the total length of the Earth's day by 0.06 microseconds and make the Earth slightly more round in the middle and flat on the poles."
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@Mps1213
I didn't have the several hours required until this Sunday night. There are two main issues before us, first you gave
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/08/recipe-for-climate-change/  as an example of what you wanted to see supporting my claim that CO₂ increase has a net cooling effect on Earth's climate. Note that I cannot load that link (it's blocking Tor nodes most likely) so I'll be using your reproduction.

Second is the contents of that link itself, which you advance as your "math, physics, chemistry, etc..." which I will analyze and respond to.

Prior to either I wish to point out an epistemological error:
You saying the evidence you have provided is like a flat earther saying “the evidence I have provided is fine I don’t need math”
Whether that is true or not depends on their argument. An argument without quantities cannot and need not interface with math. An argument with only relative scale need only invoke a single mathematical concept "<".

For example:
or someone saying the same thing trying to debunk general relativity.
If the evidence is that they moved to alpha centauri and back in 2.3 earth years they would be correct.


The quality of your evidence isn’t good enough to make a claim with any level of confidence
This isn't a video game where you can abstract anything you want into a point system.

There is uncertainty in data, there are small sample sizes (the worst case being inability to reproduce results), and there is bad analysis (logic/argument). Note that the consequence of bad logic is that the premise is rendered irrelevant.

Those are your options when rejecting evidence. It's either false, too uncertain, or irrelevant.

Evidence doesn't fight evidence. Logic doesn't fight logic. There is only error and non-error. Probability vs probability.

I will address the two issues in at least two following posts (may have to split them up due to word limit).
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Ok I’ll make it simple. 

You’re evidence is too uncertain to claim CO2 causes no warming. Using a two variable graph in this instance isn’t enough to make a claim with any level of certainty.

Compare that to the years of physics, chemistry, and math that does say CO2 warms the atmosphere. I need you to provide math, physics, and chemistry to explain why CO2 doesn’t warm the atmosphere. Without that you are anomaly hunting and trying to disprove laws of physics, basic understanding of chemistry, and easily provable math. 

Provide me with evidence of that quality. I’ve asked you to do that many times and you keep referencing a graph that does nothing to prove your point. That article I quoted about the math even addresses your point and acknowledges it. Find a way to disprove the formulas I just gave you. Which is going to be very hard because it is something done in literally every geoscience course. If you can’t disprove that math I presented earlier, you can’t prove CO2 doesn’t warnt he atmosphere. Simply because that math proves it does. So you have to disprove the math before you can move onto anything else. 

And I’d like to add, you can’t disprove math without math. So I need to see some equations and formulas on your next post or this argument is going in circles. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Actually this is a better way of putting it. All of your evidence is what’s called negative evidence. Basically saying “I don’t accept this claim because this graph shows this.” What you need to present is positive evidence, which is direct proof of your claim. You need math and physics and chemistry that directly prove that CO2 has no warming effect on the atmosphere. Stop quoting and responding to me, all of that is negative evidence and is literally never accepted in science. You need to come up with some math, that is actually accurate and provable, that directly proves your claim. I have already presented the math for my claim. I have also already presented the physics  and chemistry that is directly proving my claim. The only thing you have done is provide a two variable graph. That is easily explainable. 

You need positive evidence. Math, physics, chemistry. And what you present can’t go against basic laws of each subject. That’s all you need. 
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@Mps1213
Nothing you said disproves my final point. The earth is warming (likely naturally) we need to not aid that warming as much as possible.
Ok, but just like if we stopped everything it wouldn't make an impact, not stopping would do the same thing. Nothing would change. 

We have increased temperature by .8 kelvin from CO2 emissions alone.
We? Show me how we have done that. Humans alone have done that? Maybe it's just a warming of the earth. We had a freeze of the earth. Was that caused by humans too? Why is the total temperature just simply caused by us? 

That is a very, very little amount. However we need to not continue to do that, because as it warms naturally, it will release more CO2 into the atmosphere that is stored by glaciers. 
"As it warms naturally". Yes, the earth warms naturally. And our contribution to it, is in the 0.001 percent rages. Nothing we do to stop or contribute to it is going to matter.

We need to not be a piece in that equation if possible. So even though we have had very little effect as of now, doesn’t mean we won’t down the line. 
No, we won't because our rate of producing is astronomically smaller than the earth's natural rate of warming. 

We need to stop emitting CO2 so we can lower our impact on a naturally warming world.
Yes. We need to enforce laws, on restrictions of CO2 levels so that we can decrease the worlds CO2 levels by 0.001 percent. Good luck trying to convince other countries like China (who has worse pollution than us) of that.