Choice is clearly a factor in determining sexuality

Author: Vegasgiants

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#211
TWS1405_2
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@Double_R
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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
The pillow is a tool, not a focus of sexual attraction. 
It is your contention that sexuality is a choice. If that's the case, then that means you can choose to feel sexual attraction towards men or women.
No. 

Sexual Orientation is what you choose. 

  • Someone's sexual orientation is their pattern of sexual interest in the opposite or same sex.[5] Physical and emotional aspects of sexuality include bonds between individuals that are expressed through profound feelings or physical manifestations of love, trust, and care. Social aspects deal with the effects of human society on one's sexuality, while spirituality concerns an individual's spiritual connection with others. Sexuality also affects and is affected by cultural, political, legal, philosophical, moral, ethical, and religious aspects of life.[3][4]
Sexual attraction is the result of what you are aroused by, so if you can choose your sexual attraction then you can choose which gender arouses you.
  • Sexual behavior and intimate relationships are strongly influenced by a person's sexual orientation.[67]
Therefore, arousal can according to you, simply be switched on or off towards either sex.
Wrong. Not switched on or off, but rather chosen to act or not to act. Just because someone has a mental desire or interest (curiousness) towards the same or opposite sex doesn't mean they will or would act on it until chosen to do so. The way you (and others) assert is that people just do, they just act, without choice, and go around humping anything with a heartbeat and an available orifice. 

If you can turn your arousal on or off towards a given gender, then you are in control of your arousal.
No, you're not in control of the physiological responses of arousal. It's an automatic response to what the mind observes and translates into said physiological response. There is no control over that. 

If you are in control of your arousal, then you can choose to be aroused by your pillow.
Wrong. Not how it works, as explained; that is, unless you are a paraphiliac towards objects. But that is neither here nor there where this topic is concerned. I mean, we could go off on a red herring tangent with other sexual orientated perversions like paraphilia, necrophilia, beastiality, so on and so forth. 






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#212
Vegasgiants
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@Double_R
Because I did.  I hated broccoli too.  Now I love it.  Tastes change 
#213
Public-Choice
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@Double_R
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't you cite the WebMD article that said "experts agree" that being gay is genetic?

Was that just to say an organization says it, or was it a statement of agreement to it?
#214
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Public-Choice
No, it said experts agree it can't be changed.

It also said (although Double R did not quote this section):
Most scientists agree that sexual orientation (including homosexuality and bisexuality) is the result of a combination of environmental, emotional, hormonal, and biological factors.

So they've ruled out precisely nothing in this sentence. Alien hypnosis is an environmental factor after all.

Then it says:

Homosexuality and bisexuality aren’t caused by the way children were reared by their parents, or by something that happened to them when they were young.
How do they know? (hint: they don't)


Also, being homosexual or bisexual does not mean the person is mentally ill or abnormal in any way.
I think being in the 5% makes you abnormal. What they want to say is "people shouldn't mock you for being abnormal in this case", but that doesn't sound professional and they have to keep up the pseudo scientific front.


They may face burdens caused by other people’s prejudices or misunderstandings.
Thirty years ago maybe. Now they may face unearned praise, pandering, legal favoritism, celebratory parades, preferential hiring, and an unlimited supply of sympathy and encouragement for what would have happened if they were beamed back 30 years.'

That's the thing about widespread prejudice, if it exists; spineless committees like this would never dare to call it out because that would by definition be unpopular.
#215
Lemming
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@Double_R
Is there a reason a person 'couldn't be sexually attracted to a pillow?

One see's those anime body pillows in media sometimes, usually as a joke,
'But. . . .

There's also that one Pavlov argument,
A person trains a reaction in response to a stimuli/situation.
. . .
Though that might be what some people tried with shock therapy,
And I don't know 'anyone who thinks 'that's a good treatment, (Excluding modern ECT, but that's not really the same thing)
. .
Besides, some people 'like pain.
. . .
Also problem of confusion, depression, fear,
And not being necessary anyway, from many people's point of view.
Hard to change someone, who doesn't 'want to change maybe.
Maybe ought not change them.

Still,
I'd argue being sexually attracted to pillows could be a thing.
#216
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Homosexuality and bisexuality aren’t caused by the way children were reared by their parents, or by something that happened to them when they were young.
How do they know? (hint: they don't)

It most certainly can be caused by how their parent(s) reared them. I witnessed my sister do it to their first born son. He’s a total feminine basket case. Irresponsible. Obnoxious. And still living at home (he’s in his mid 20s) with mommy and daddy, and always will. His sister is completely normal (heterosexual female). 
#217
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@Best.Korea
Being attracted to children is most definitely not my choice, but I cant change it.
I didn't know you are a pedophile. Don't have sex with kids bud.  If you act on it, you deserve death.  But if you don't act on it, it is what it is.
#218
ADreamOfLiberty
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@TWS1405_2
Homosexuality and bisexuality aren’t caused by the way children were reared by their parents, or by something that happened to them when they were young.
How do they know? (hint: they don't)

It most certainly can be caused by how their parent(s) reared them. I witnessed my sister do it to their first born son. He’s a total feminine basket case. Irresponsible. Obnoxious. And still living at home (he’s in his mid 20s) with mommy and daddy, and always will. His sister is completely normal (heterosexual female). 
Yet we know it isn't something so overt in all cases. I was raised in a catholic household. I'm not a basket case, and I'm definitely not as obnoxious as you appear to be.

If it was easy to figure out we would have figured it out a long long time ago.

If there is a bottleneck trigger that people can stop exposing children to, will the LGBTQ cult call that genocide?


#219
ADreamOfLiberty
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@TheUnderdog

Being attracted to children is most definitely not my choice, but I cant change it.
I didn't know you are a pedophile. Don't have sex with kids bud.  If you act on it, you deserve death.  But if you don't act on it, it is what it is.
You need to put yourself in the other guys shoes when you say stuff like that.

Make an argument if you care enough to threaten death. He's debated it before.

I know what I think when someone tells me I deserve to die: "How can kill you first."

#220
TWS1405_2
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Yet we know it isn't something so overt in all cases. I was raised in a catholic household. I'm not a basket case, and I'm definitely not as obnoxious as you appear to be.
If being in your face honest = obnoxious, I’ll take it as a compliment. 

Thank you. 

#221
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@Best.Korea
What’s with the Skittles colors for your avatar??? 
#222
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@TWS1405_2
Well there is honesty that relates to fuzzy opinions about other people that have no chance of resolving any conflicts or getting anything done. That's what I meant.
#223
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Word salad. Rephrase. 
#224
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@TWS1405_2
... You Insult People With Little Provocation...
#225
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@ADreamOfLiberty
No, I don’t. I don’t have the power to do so. The only one who has that power is the one reading the words I type. If they get offended, triggered, butthurt…that speaks to their weakness, thus the power to insult them [is] on them, not me. 
#226
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@TWS1405_2
What’s with the Skittles colors for your avatar??? 
Its a pride flag.

#227
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@TWS1405_2
No, I don’t. I don’t have the power to do so. The only one who has that power is the one reading the words I type. If they get offended, triggered, butthurt…that speaks to their weakness, thus the power to insult them [is] on them, not me. 
There's a theory. A bad theory, but a theory.




#228
zedvictor4
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@TWS1405_2
I firmly agree.

People choose to be offended, often deliberately so.

Such is data transfer, assessment and intellectual output......Whereby gain is sought by playing the victim card.

Other better options are always available, such as ignorance or reciprocal criticism.
#229
ADreamOfLiberty
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@zedvictor4
"Look, twit, human beings are not all “African” as the other interloper suggests. 

Have you had a DNA test done? Has that interloper? Nope. I’d gather not given your stupid ass replies. "

My intellectual output in regards to that is that it has no intellectual value and that it's only possible use and intention was to insult. If the reader does not take it as an insult then it has no purpose.


#230
TWS1405_2
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Twit = a silly or foolish person. 

Being referred to as silly or foolish is hardly an insulting term, but if one takes it that way…well…as I said before, their weakness. 

Calling the replies (as in their expressed position in the words typed) “stupid ass” ≠ @ the person.  Her words clearly cannot get offended, but if she did…well, as said before, their weakness. 

Your intellectual output is clearly flawed reasoning. Too emotive and no rationality (ie - logical assessment). 

Then  Again, perhaps YOU were offended by what I said to another. That screams weakness on your part. 

#231
ADreamOfLiberty
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@TWS1405_2
Being referred to as silly or foolish is hardly an insulting term
You ever seen the movie "Waterloo"?

There is a scene where a lower class British soldier is caught stealing a pig. The looter claims the pig was merely a friend he was helping (or something like that). The Duke of Wellington says "promote him, he knows how to defend a hopeless position".


Then  Again, perhaps YOU were offended by what I said to another.
To a degree.


That screams weakness on your part. 
Lying about one's emotions either to yourself or others is in my opinion a failed strategy and a weakness.
#232
TWS1405_2
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That screams weakness on your part. 
Lying about one's emotions either to yourself or others is in my opinion a failed strategy and a weakness.

Well, I have zero emotional stake in any debate/discussion I get into. 

The only time I get emotional, err…pissed off, is when I’m cheated (deletion) for BS reasons by staff on votes in debates or new thread topics. I take my frustration out on the one arbitrarily making the BS decision. 

Other than that, there is nothing you or anyone can say @ me that will insult/trigger me. When anyone tries, I just laugh because it says more about them than their insult does as directed @ me. 
Topic's author
#233
Vegasgiants
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There is no one weaker than the person who uses ignore


They are simply terrified of debate with you
#234
Sidewalker
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@Vegasgiants
Why do you hate logic?
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#235
Vegasgiants
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@Sidewalker
Why do you?
#236
zedvictor4
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Twit Twoo.

Said the wise old Owl.
#237
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
and how many times have you verified a track record of solid results?

You don't, you assume someone would have told you if there was a track record of failure;
So if I have not personally verified someone's track record of results, I should disregard their expertise at face value. Is that your position which you exercise everyday anytime you come across any kind of information about the world you live in?

So you have now suggested three different ways a body of purported 'experts' (but who certainly agree with each other and spend significant time thinking about it) can be wrong:

1.) They're lying it's all one vast conspiracy
2.) They aren't employing science, if they were employing science they would show us (but we can't understand such lofty things and don't even try)
3.) They are irrational, apparently together

Apparently conspiracy isn't the only reason to doubt :)
1 is a big conspiracy theory

3 would need to be supported by actual argument explaining how an entire body of professionals in a given field could all be making a fundamental flaw within the basis of their entire profession. I am aware of no other feild other than religion which this argument can be made against.

2 doesn't apply to any other field of expertise I am aware of except religion.

Can you please present a single example of an industry of expertise other than religion that fundamentally doesn't understand it's own field?
#238
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
and how many times have you verified a track record of solid results?

You don't, you assume someone would have told you if there was a track record of failure;
So if I have not personally verified someone's track record of results, I should disregard their expertise at face value
I've never told you to disregard anything. What you choose to trust simply isn't an argument.


3 would need to be supported by actual argument explaining how an entire body of professionals in a given field could all be making a fundamental flaw within the basis of their entire profession. I am aware of no other feild other than religion which this argument can be made against.
and your argument against religion was that they "don't employ science"? If so could you please acknowledge that Occam (who you love to quote) was clergy? (As was Thomas Aquinas and a whole lot of others who laid the foundation + the huge number of renaissance men that professed to be christian)


2 doesn't apply to any other field of expertise I am aware of except religion.
How would you know if they didn't show you the science?


Can you please present a single example of an industry of expertise other than religion that fundamentally doesn't understand it's own field?
No true Scotsman much? Is it not a big enough example for you? Do religions "not understand their own field" or is it simply that nobody understands their "field" because the field is an arbitrary tangle of contradictions and fuzzy concepts?

Then what about scientific socialism?

While we're on it: psychology, and no it's not a conspiracy it's a pseudoscience. You can go find Jordon Peterson's talk on "Big Five personality traits" that's the best they got. It's statistics on questionnaires. That's all.

I see you didn't quote the fact that the APA said the homosexuals were nuts. I'm bringing it back: Why did they think that then? Why were they wrong? Did they fix their methodology so they wouldn't make the same mistake again?

Any real scientific community can answer questions like that.
#239
Double_R
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@TWS1405_2
Not switched on or off, but rather chosen to act or not to act. Just because someone has a mental desire or interest (curiousness) towards the same or opposite sex doesn't mean they will or would act on it until chosen to do so
Great, so we're all in agreement. An individual can choose their lifestyle, but not their inner desires.

A gay man can call themselves straight, marry a women, and have kids, because they're in control of their actions. Problem is, they're still gay.

So at the end of the day the difference between you and I is apparently that I support a man living as his true self and expressing his true desires. You are ok with shutting him down so that he lives his life the way you see fit, not how her actually wants to.

So is there anything left to discuss here?
#240
Double_R
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@Public-Choice
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't you cite the WebMD article that said "experts agree" that being gay is genetic?

Was that just to say an organization says it, or was it a statement of agreement to it?
The point of the article is that people do not choose their own sexuality, a position which I have been defending with my own arguments ever since.