Does this scare anyone else?

Author: Slainte

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RationalMadman
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I think this may help tinydicked men as well as transgender men.

At the end of the operation they have a tool that feels just like a real dick and that can alternate between hard and soft by pumping something or tapping a place on their leg or underneath the groin area.

The only problem is the warmth of blood pumping through the real things will be difficult to mimic.

I also see breast implants being revolutionised to actually be flesh/fat-based off of the host's DNA. Plastic surgery won't be plastic anymore.
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@Slainte
It is the naivety that we think we can short cut, and bring complex lives down to a single process which scares me. It is the same thing that occurs with ultra-processed foods on the one hand, and gain of function research on the other.
I agree. Ultra processed food actually is the main cause of several diseases, including cancer. Same with all the medication made up in the western civilization. So, we are not sure what the consequences of this new man-made meat will be, but to me it's going to be the same story.

I'd better trust mother nature than the fvcking human being, imho.
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@Slainte
We are referring to muscle tissue here rather than a whole chicken.

Taking muscle tissue and providing the right conditions for it to replicate and grow.

And if we have achieved this then we do know.

I wouldn't describe this as trickery.



A thought occurred to me.

If this is achievable with chicken it must also be with human muscle.

I was just wondering what status the pro-life lobby would attribute lab grow human tissue.


And then we could also question whether lab grown human tissue should be regarded as a valid protein source.

We could actually grow and eat ourselves.....Wonder how the vegan lobby would view this.
ADreamOfLiberty
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@zedvictor4
A thought occurred to me.

If this is achievable with chicken it must also be with human muscle.

I was just wondering what status the pro-life lobby would attribute lab grow human tissue.

And then we could also question whether lab grown human tissue should be regarded as a valid protein source.

We could actually grow and eat ourselves.....Wonder how the vegan lobby would view this.
One of my favorite recent reads is "project hail mary", long story short the protagonist ends up eating his own cloned meat.

It's hard to tell what people without a coherent theory would think, but the difference between the germ sequence and the behavior of a differentiated stem cell is quite clear. In other words the cloned muscle would never be on the path to being a full human genetic uniqueness aside.

As for vegens or vegetarians, the ethically driven ones claim it's about the murderous or enslaving crimes against the animal. They could hardly complain if there is no animal (or human animal) to offend.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I think that under such circumstances, the ethically driven vegan would probably modify their ethical drive.

Not so sure about the ethically driven anti-abortionist though, as I suspect that a lot of those enjoy the slaughter of the fatted calf.

In terms of material development, I would suggest that ethics will come and ethics will go.

One doesn't here a lot about genetically modified crops these days.....We seem to have overcome that nightmare scenario.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Also, you cant take people seriously when they say "the earth is going to run out of drinkable water"
You really can't. It paint a vivid picture of someone tragically unaware of the nature of the world they live on despite probably receiving an education containing all necessary principles to infer how absurd the statement is.

It's the authority based epistemology.
Authority based epistemology... Aka the recognition of the fact that people who study a particular subject for their entire lives tend to know more about it than everyone else who doesn't.

It's remarkably stupid to think that all of the worlds experts who overwhelmingly agree that the earth is running out of fresh water never considered the Amazon Basin or asked themselves "why don't we just build an aqueduct?" I would point you to resources that could explain it to you but I seem to be unable to find anyone who can credibly explain it who's not an expert. I wonder why that is?
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
It's remarkably stupid to think that all of the worlds experts who overwhelmingly agree...
...and there it is, the delusion of universal consensus among a priesthood. Too many appeals to authority and your brain falls off.


I would point you to resources that could explain it to you but I seem to be unable to find anyone who can credibly explain it who's not an expert. I wonder why that is?
It's because you couldn't find any credible explanations period. Who am I kidding? You would have just done a 5 minute google search, picked a title that sounded sensational and pasted it here without reading the body and then written 10,000 words about how much "science" and "specialized education" matters rather than trying to make an argument from your own understanding.

It was wise to not even try. The self-confessed ignorant should not be pretending to debate.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
...and there it is, the delusion of universal consensus among a priesthood. Too many appeals to authority and your brain falls off.
Trying to wrap my head around the absurdity of this post, don't even know where to begin.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe you were the one who said that you fix your own car, fix your own plumbing, file your own taxes, represent yourself in court, diagnose and treat your and your family's health ailments, and perform your own IT at home, because who needs expertise... in... well, anything? Well apparently we can add to that that you're also conducting your own scientific experiments and studies to figure out the viability of the Earth's water supply.

For the rest of us simpletons who don't have a mystical ability to become a nuclear physicist overnight, one way we can determine what the consensus is across the globe is to use Google and figure out what the scientific community is actually saying on this topic. You can perform this experiment yourself, and notice that everyone from all of the fifty states, NASA, the UN, the WHO, and oh yeah, every other country on earth is working on ways - not to prove that there is a coming water crisis - but working on how they're going to address it. You know what you won't be able to find? A single credible organization anywhere on earth claiming otherwise.

And if that experiment is too much for you, here's a dumbed down PBS video explaining it.

But what do any of these people know, they're only authorities on the subject so according to your epistemology that's reason in and if itself to dismiss them. Apparently to you the answer is to find some guy on the internet or to just look around and go "duh look at all the water" and viola!... Claim debunked. Because anything other than that and your brain will fall off.

rather than trying to make an argument from your own understanding.
If I wanted to debate the long term viability of the Earth's fresh water supply I'd issue the challenge. That might even be interesting for the purposes of academic challenge. What's absurd is to convince yourself that accepting the global scientific consensus as the best explanation for any given phenomenon is lazy, anti-intellectual, or to even go as far as implying it's stupid. No one with an IQ above room temperature would conclude that.

BTW I'm really curious, what do you do for a living and how long have you been doing it?
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
notice that everyone from all of the fifty states, NASA, the UN, the WHO, and oh yeah, every other country on earth is working on ways - not to prove that there is a coming water crisis - but working on how they're going to address it. You know what you won't be able to find? A single credible organization anywhere on earth claiming otherwise.
"everyone" just like "everyone" wanted Shokin gone. lol


But what do any of these people know, they're only authorities on the subject so according to your epistemology that's reason in and if itself to dismiss them.
That is a strawman. Priests can be right about a multitude of things, but they are not correct because they are priests. To know if they are right about a certain claim one must support the claim with an argument.

Prove X and therefore prove that Joe who said X is in a class of "people who have spoken the truth in regards to X", which means Joe can be trusted in regards to X (but not necessarily anything else).

OR

Prove X

The former is a useless conception of the world. If you need to prove X anyway, there is no need to entangle the proof with the person. This is why ad hominem is a fallacy (along with many other fallacies that remind you that the speaker is irrelevant).

I dismiss non-arguments like appeals to authority. To claim that a fallacious argument implies a false conclusion is itself a fallacy, which is never something I have said hence this is a strawman.


BTW I'm really curious, what do you do for a living and how long have you been doing it?
It's not a secret, but I won't answer irrelevant questions when it's so obvious it's merely ammunition for informal fallacies.


If I wanted to debate the long term viability of the Earth's fresh water supply I'd issue the challenge.
If you didn't have arguments you should have retracted the assertion when challenged.
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
"everyone" just like "everyone" wanted Shokin gone. lol
I would consider literally every credible scientific organization in the world along with every national government on earth to be "everyone".

And yes, just like everyone wanted Shokin gone, proved by the thirteen articles from different parts of the world I provided written at the time all saying the same thing coupled with your inability despite trying to find just one saying otherwise.

But they were all wrong because you know, conspiracy. Or something.

Priests can be right about a multitude of things, but they are not correct because they are priests. To know if they are right about a certain claim one must support the claim with an argument.
Correct, which is what scientists do. In fact that's literally the hallmark of science, the very thing that gives scientific findings it's legitimacy, which is what makes it that much more absurd for someone who knows nothing about the subject matter to reflexively reject scientific findings.

If you didn't have arguments you should have retracted the assertion when challenged.
This isn't a thread about water scarcity, it is a thread about lab grown meat.

If you would have responded to my assertion that the world is running low on drinkable water by telling me that wasn't true, maybe I would have engaged on that topic. Instead you attacked me as being some brainless parrot regurgitating talking points all because I had the temerity to form an opinion about lab grown meat based off of a world wide scientific consensus on the future of water. So this is no longer a conversation about water, it's a conversation philosophy, specifically about expertise as a concept and the role that plays in the decisions and beliefs we make/form everyday of our lives.

It's not a secret, but I won't answer irrelevant questions when it's so obvious it's merely ammunition for informal fallacies.
It's very relevant to this conversation, but we all know why you won't answer it, because you can't without faceplanting.

Since you'll continue to dodge, I'll just take it a step further... I ask what you do for a living because I want to see if you still believe the same thing you're saying when it's you own expertise that's being taken for granted by others. Do you think I could show up and do your job just as good as you on day one without any relevant expertise? What would you say to me if you tried to show me what to do and my attitude was that I don't need you to show me anything because I can figure it out as I go to get it done just as effectively as you?
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
I would consider literally every credible scientific organization in the world along with every national government on earth to be "everyone".
Are they in the room with us now? You seem to have google confused with "everyone".


To know if they are right about a certain claim one must support the claim with an argument.
Correct, which is what scientists do.
But not apparently what you do.


It's very relevant to this conversation
Only to someone with authority based epistemology, and such a person should not be on a debate site (till they recover at least).


I ask what you do for a living because I want to see if you still believe the same thing you're saying when it's you own expertise that's being taken for granted by others
Still believe the best argument determines the truth regardless of the speaker? Yes I never stop believing that. I never appeal to my own authority, especially in my professional interactions. I also note that anyone who says "trust me I know what I'm talking about" instead of explaining when asked is probably faking it till they make it. I do not trust them.

Trust om competence is earned by performance, honesty, and being able to demonstrate the rationality.

Any true expert (with the appropriate philosophy) can talk your ear off until you say "ok ok, enough details please carry on"


Do you think I could show up and do your job just as good as you on day one without any relevant expertise?
Nope


What would you say to me if you tried to show me what to do and my attitude was that I don't need you to show me anything because I can figure it out as I go to get it done just as effectively as you?
I'd say you were stupid. There would be a higher level of stupidity though, and that would be if you were listening with rapt attention to another ignorant person who was feeding you nonsense and claiming they heard it from me.
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Are they in the room with us now? You seem to have google confused with "everyone".
Google is the gateway to what they have to say genius.

Trust om competence is earned by performance, honesty, and being able to demonstrate the rationality.
Which is what generally elevates one to an authority on a subject

Any true expert (with the appropriate philosophy) can talk your ear off until you say "ok ok, enough details please carry on"
That's why we don't base our assessment of whether one is an authority on how well they speak to us. We base it on whether other experts in the feild regard the individual or the organization as credible.

Still believe the best argument determines the truth regardless of the speaker? Yes I never stop believing that.
You continue to pretend that's where our disagreement is because you can't support your own nonsense with straightforward honest argument.

We're not talking about how truth is ultimately determined. We're talking about how we deal with the fact that we cannot be experts in everything.

Your position appears to be that we never trust any information that we have not verified for ourselves personally, which followed to it's logical end means if your doctor tells you that you need surgery then you will not accept until you have seen all of the test results and had someone explain every fact of how the human body operates before you approve... Actually no you can't accept the facts you were told because you did not verify those yourself so instead you have to perform all of the experiments yourself in order to establish that the human body does in fact work the way they're telling you it does in order to then read all of the test results for yourself in order to determine that their medical assessment is accurate... Then you'll approve.

By then you'll be dead, but at least you didn't appeal to an authority before you formed a belief.

What would you say to me if you tried to show me what to do and my attitude was that I don't need you to show me anything because I can figure it out as I go to get it done just as effectively as you?
I'd say you were stupid. There would be a higher level of stupidity though, and that would be if you were listening with rapt attention to another ignorant person who was feeding you nonsense and claiming they heard it from me.
That's exactly the non answer I was expecting.
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
Are they in the room with us now? You seem to have google confused with "everyone".
Google is the gateway to what they have to say genius.
It's like you don't understand a search engine finds what you asked for.

It is biased by its very nature, and has 0% chance of representing the views of "everyone".


We base it on whether other experts in the feild regard the individual or the organization as credible.
Which is why your epistemology is no different than a medieval trust in the priesthood.


Still believe the best argument determines the truth regardless of the speaker? Yes I never stop believing that.
You continue to pretend that's where our disagreement is because you can't support your own nonsense with straightforward honest argument.
rofl, I didn't make the original assertion here; although both sides are positive assertions. Want it in concise format?

There is no reason to expect that the conditions which have for the past billion years caused a magnificent abundance of fresh potable water to flow over the surface of the earth will change in the next billion years.

Saying there is "no reason" is not a statement which incurs a burden of proof. You are the one who needs to come up with a reason.


We're not talking about how truth is ultimately determined.
I am.


We're talking about how we deal with the fact that we cannot be experts in everything.
It's simple: If you don't understand don't pretend you do. Shut-up. Your decisions about who experts are is personal and not something that can be debated because expertise is only proven by proving the underlying claim.


Your position appears to be that we never trust any information that we have not verified for ourselves personally
...
Actually no you can't accept the facts you were told because you did not verify those yourself so instead you have to perform all of the experiments yourself in order to establish that the human body does in fact work the way they're telling you it does in order to then read all of the test results for yourself in order to determine that their medical assessment is accurate... Then you'll approve.
No, that's your strawman. In fact you should know very well that I'll trust third party data as I used it to disprove your claim that George Floyd could not have been killed by fentanyl.

You ignored that data by the way because you're scientifically illiterate or practically equivalent due to selective bias.


which followed to it's logical end means if your doctor tells you that you need surgery then you will not accept until you have seen all of the test results and had someone explain every fact of how the human body operates before you approve...
I sure as hell would immediately doubt the expertise of any doctor who refused to explain until we were well outside of my knowledge base.


By then you'll be dead, but at least you didn't appeal to an authority before you formed a belief.
Since that's your strawman, no; but it's not like this is symmetric. I mean the axis powers existed because of trust in so called authorities leading to the deaths of millions.

"Trust but Verify" is the phrase I believe?

Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I sure as hell would immediately doubt the expertise of any doctor who refused to explain until we were well outside of my knowledge base.
So tell me... what do you do once your knowledge base has been exceeded?

And while you ponder that question here's another for you; Where did your knowledge base come from? Exactly how much of the information you claim to know about the world came from first hand experience or scientific experimentation you conducted yourself?
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
I sure as hell would immediately doubt the expertise of any doctor who refused to explain until we were well outside of my knowledge base.
So tell me... what do you do once your knowledge base has been exceeded?
Trust experts, as chosen by my criteria.


And while you ponder that question here's another for you; Where did your knowledge base come from?
Only a tiny proportion of anyone's beliefs or ideas are original and none are fully original.

Humanity spent a hundred thousand years doing pretty much the same thing, indicating we generate ideas by inspiration.

So the answer is: Humanity


Exactly how much of the information you claim to know about the world came from first hand experience or scientific experimentation you conducted yourself?
That's hard to quantify since you included "first hand experience".  I large portion of the information has been cross checked with logic which could be considered 'first hand experience'. For instance I've gone through the proofs of about half of the mathematical equations I've commonly used.

I've only ever done one or two original empirical experiments. I've personally confirmed classical mechanics, optics, and elements of quantum mechanics.

I'm indulging you in these questions because it's going to be fun to remind you that you're angling at a strawman BTW.