Transgenderism is a mental illness.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

Posts

Total: 86
Topic's author
#1
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
42% of Transgender identifying people commit suicide.

That rate is more than people in:
Poverty
Minorities
Men
Women
Jews in concentration camps.
Black slaves during the slave trade.
Depression patients. 

If you have a group of people and a mass number of them are committing suicide, then it's safe to say that their is something wrong their. 19% of those transgender identifying people who commit suicide do it after medically transitioning. 

We should be treating gender diphoria with sympathy and therapy not cutting off the limbs and genitals of mentally ill people then affirming their delusion. 

Most of the mass shootings recently have been by LGBTQ identifying people. Anyone seeing the correlation?
#2
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
42% of Transgender identifying people commit suicide.
That's going to need some major citation IMO.

Most of the mass shootings recently have been by LGBTQ identifying people. Anyone seeing the correlation?
Two datapoints among hundreds of thousands?

You can't just say X group is statistically likely to do bad stuff and therefore they're nuts. If that was valid what would you have to say about blacks in US cities?

You need to define mental illness and then show that the definition of transgender is by inescapable inference a mental illness. Otherwise this is inappropriate way to describe sapient beings.
#3
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Mental illness is merely a narrative intended to pathologize abnormal behavior. As of yet, there hasn't been a  substantiated biochemical, neurological, or genetic basis for that which psychiatrists argue to be "mental illnesses." And thus, there's no sound basis on which one can refer to "Transgenderism" as a "mental illness." It's merely abnormal.
#4
PREZ-HILTON
PREZ-HILTON's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,806
3
4
9
PREZ-HILTON's avatar
PREZ-HILTON
3
4
9
-->
@Athias
The abnormal behavior usually needs to be followed with negative effects on the patients life to be considered a mental illness. I would say gender dysphoria meets this requirement, but was removed from the DSM for political reasons. 
#5
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
its demons. People call lots of things mental disorders that is actually sin and demonic power. Its not natural to just despair of life because of identity.
Topic's author
#6
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
That's going to need some major citation IMO.
"The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries."

Two datapoints among hundreds of thousands?
The LGBTQIA+ movement hasn't blown up like it has in the culture only up until recently.
A lot of recent shootings have been by LGBTQ+ identifying individuals.

The school shooting in Nashville, Tennessee - Transgender shooter.
The LGBTQ nightclub shooting in Colorado Springs, Colorado - Non-binary shooter
The STEM school shooting in Denver, Colorado - Transgender shooter.
The pharmaceuticals distribution center shooting in Aberdeen, Maryland - Transgender shooter.
And more cases like this one.

Let's also not forget that shooters are rarely female, yet in 3 of the examples I provided, the shooter was in fact female. 
Does anyone else see a correlation?

You can't just say X group is statistically likely to do bad stuff and therefore they're nuts. If that was valid what would you have to say about blacks in US cities?
What I am saying is that the rise in LGBTQ+ identifying shooters are becoming more frequent, plus the fact that their suicide rate is off the charts, is a pretty good equation to say its a mental illness.

As for blacks in U.S. cities, that could be a whole other topic, and I do have an answer for that question.

You need to define mental illness and then show that the definition of transgender is by inescapable inference a mental illness. Otherwise this is inappropriate way to describe sapient beings.
Mental Illness: "Mental illnesses are health conditions involving changes in emotion, thinking or behavior (or a combination of these). Mental illnesses can be associated with distress and/or problems functioning in social, work or family activities."
This definition is literally coming from the American Psychiatric Foundation.
Transgenderism used to be called gender dysphoria, which is an actual medical terminology for people who feel like the opposite gender. 

It is most definitely a mental illness. And we need to handle this like we would any other mental illness. 


 

#7
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@PREZ-HILTON
@YouFound_Lxam
That's going to need some major citation IMO.
"The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries."

"In the survey that NCTE conducted with The Task Force, 41% of those who responded reported having attempted suicide at some point in their lives"

and @PREZ-HILTON

The data source is a survey. That doesn't mean it's false, but try to keep in mind that there is heavy selection bias here.

There is even more bias in surveys of psychiatrists and therapists. People who feel fine don't pay to be "fixed".

Two datapoints among hundreds of thousands?
The LGBTQIA+ movement hasn't blown up like it has in the culture only up until recently.
A lot of recent shootings have been by LGBTQ+ identifying individuals.

The school shooting in Nashville, Tennessee - Transgender shooter.
The LGBTQ nightclub shooting in Colorado Springs, Colorado - Non-binary shooter
The STEM school shooting in Denver, Colorado - Transgender shooter.
The pharmaceuticals distribution center shooting in Aberdeen, Maryland - Transgender shooter.
And more cases like this one.

Let's also not forget that shooters are rarely female, yet in 3 of the examples I provided, the shooter was in fact female. 
Does anyone else see a correlation?
So there are more than I thought, still...

You need to define mental illness and then show that the definition of transgender is by inescapable inference a mental illness. Otherwise this is inappropriate way to describe sapient beings.
Mental Illness: "Mental illnesses are health conditions involving changes in emotion, thinking or behavior (or a combination of these). Mental illnesses can be associated with distress and/or problems functioning in social, work or family activities."
That's just the kind of definition I would expect from psychiatrists (and psychologists). They're quacks. It's a pseudoscience.

So how does converting to a religion fail to meet this definition?

"changes in behavior" my god, drinking coffee is a mental illness.

To top it all off "can be associated" only can be? Not necessarily? Well thank you Mr. "medical professional" I understand you can classify anything except perfect mental homeostasis as a mental disorder at will, sounds legit.

It is most definitely a mental illness. And we need to handle this like we would any other mental illness.
If I let your comment change my behavior you would meet the definition of a mental illness.

Come on, something precise and objectively applicable.

Topic's author
#8
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
You asked for a definition, I provided one from the APA.
You asked for more examples, I provided more examples.
You asked for evidence I gave you more evidence.

It's up to you if you want to believe it or not.
Your only reasoning for not believing it, is that you think the medical professionals are quacks. 



#9
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Its old news to know that most mass shootings are done by males.

..."
These issues can lead some people "to act out or respond violently", said Jaclyn Schildkraut, the interim executive director of the Regional Gun Violence Research Consortium at the non-partisan Rockefeller Institute of Government.
This is reflected in an analysis by the US Secret Service of 173 mass casualty attacks - around three-quarters of which were carried out by a firearm.
The report, published on Tuesday, found that nearly 93% of assailants had dealt with a personal issue prior to their attack, whether it be divorce, health problems, or issues at school or work, and that 10% of assailants behind mass casualty events between 2016 and 2020 died by suicide.
Ms Schildkraut also says "toxic masculinity" could factor in as well: nearly all mass shooters (around 98%) are male. "...

...." Laws on safe storage of firearms are also lax in some states, he said, despite research evidence showing that stowing a gun away safely reduces the overall number of firearm deaths.
"When you compare what is going on in the US to other countries, the one thing that they don't necessarily have that we have is just such easy access to firearms," Mr Horwitz said. "...


#10
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Your only reasoning for not believing it, is that you think the medical professionals are quacks. 
Definitions aren't something to believe in, they are useful or not. They are widely accepted or not.

That one is useless because it includes coffee.

Consequently the giving of that definition is evidence of quackery. Don't confuse cause and effect.
Topic's author
#11
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Dude don't just read the definition, read the article.
#12
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,623
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
If trans community makes claims about shooter being oppressed, that will further confirm their mental illness.
#13
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
If Jonny thinks he is Jeff is he mentally ill? schizophrenia? If Jonny thinks he is Jennifer, is he mentally ill? schizophrenia?

Schizophrenia is a  mental disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally.

#14
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
You are the one who needs a definition to make your case, not me. If the definition is an entire article I think that qualifies as complicated to the point of vagueness.
#15
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Too late for that, plenty of people in highish places have been saying it.
#16
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,623
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Yeah, so mental illness.

Murderers need to be killed. They are not victims. They are evil. There is nothing that can justify a shooter in this case. Anyone not saying "this person was evil and corrupt" is himself evil and corrupt.
#17
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Yeah, so mental illness.
Nah, mental illness (if it means anything) is intrinsic to the individual.

The statements of third parties about fourth parties couldn't possibly be relevant.

Nearly every gender dysphoric person has not shot up a school, nor defended shooting up a school, nor suggested the school was shot up due to oppression.

Murderers need to be killed. They are not victims. They are evil.
Now I fully understand you may have been troll-posting before, but how do you go from "prison is torture for pedophiles" to this. Isn't it glaringly obvious that victim and murderer are not mutually exclusive? They aren't even anti-correlated.

The only reason someone would possibly think that someone can't be both at the same time is if their opinions are centered solely in a single emotional stream. This is why children used to be required to read quality drama books as well as being challenged and historical narratives in later schooling.

So many people have been brought up in a pre-philosophical mindset, they can't feel two things at once.
#18
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,623
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Isn't it glaringly obvious that victim and murderer are not mutually exclusive?
They are mutually exclusive. When he commits the most horrible crime, we will not think that he is a victim of anything. We will not pretend that he is something different from murderer and madman.

Is it also glaringly obvious that the shooter is an evil murderer, and any affection for murderer celebrates murder?
Topic's author
#19
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Well that's your decision to not accept the evidence. 

#20
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@PREZ-HILTON
The abnormal behavior usually needs to be followed with negative effects on the patients life to be considered a mental illness.
Rejection, for example, can have a negative impact on someone's life, but that doesn't make it pathological. It doesn't make it an illness.

I would say gender dysphoria meets this requirement, but was removed from the DSM for political reasons. 
Naturally. The DSM-V like its predecessors is maintained purely by "peer consensus."
#21
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
@YouFound_Lxam
[Best.Korea] They are mutually exclusive.
Why?

[YouFound_Lxam] Well that's your decision to not accept the evidence. 
Asserted definitions aren't evidence. Last time I'll say it.
#22
PREZ-HILTON
PREZ-HILTON's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,806
3
4
9
PREZ-HILTON's avatar
PREZ-HILTON
3
4
9
-->
@Athias
Rejection, for example, can have a negative impact on someone's life, but that doesn't make it pathological. It doesn't make it an illness.
rejection is not abnormal behavior. It happens to an individual and is not caused by them. 
#23
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
I prefer dealing with sissies and femboys (over the legal age, both who know they are male but like to strerch into queer feminine realms and rp as a feminsied being, sissies more masochistically than femboys) to transwomen inside and outside of sex/sexting. They are much less drama to deal with and clearer on it being roleplay as you feminise and dominate them.

I have found transwomen to be rather unstable, supporting the theory of this topic. The delusion is too extreme to be a long term friend, they always have self loathing deep down and a lot of anxiety, at the very least. Trans men actually often are easier to deal with, they tend to fully accept and understand they are female but hate the pronoun and are too masculine if on hormones, to appeal to me sexually but as friends they are more stable for sure.
#24
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
RationalMadman, you must get around...
#25
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
I chatted elsewhere much more than actually did things. Not embarassed about that fact either. Was curious how straight I was. Don't know or care if I am straight or pan, men don't appeal to me if they are masculine.
Topic's author
#26
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Asserted definitions aren't evidence. Last time I'll say it.
It's not asserted definitions. 

It's using APA definitions to define mental illnesses.

Also I don't even need their definition to prove it is a mental illness. 
Trans-people used to be called, patients with the mental illness of gender dysphoria. 

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, therefore Transgenderism is a mental illness as well. 




#27
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,164
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
It's not asserted definitions. 

It's using APA definitions to define mental illnesses.
Their assertion or yours doesn't matter, nobody proves a definition is correct. Definitions are the matter on which logic operates.

Logic says that definition includes anything that induces or alters thought or action. Thus it is a definition so broad as to be useless.

Also I don't even need their definition to prove it is a mental illness. 
You definitely need a definition.

Trans-people used to be called, patients with the mental illness of gender dysphoria. 

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, therefore Transgenderism is a mental illness as well. 
... but the only reason it used to be called a mental disorder via gender dysphoria is because the APA asserted it. You appeal to the authority of the APA of the past but not the present?

In any case appealing to authority is not a valid argument.
Topic's author
#28
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Ok, fine. I will provide you another definition so that you can understand.

Mental Illness: "A condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behavior or thinking."


Gender dysphoria: "Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there's a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. It's sometimes known as gender identity disorder (GID), gender incongruence or transgenderism."

Symptoms: Distress related to one's assigned gender, sex, and/or sex characteristics.
Complications: Eating disorders, suicide, depression, anxiety, social isolation. 

I want you to read this article then I will make a comparison:
Gender dysphoria (formerly known as gender identity disorder in the fourth version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM) is defined by strong, persistent feelings of identification with another gender and discomfort with one's own assigned gender and sex; in order to qualify for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, these feelings must cause significant distress or impairment. People with gender dysphoria often desire to live in accordance with their gender identity and may dress and use mannerisms associated with the gender with which they identify in order to achieve this goal."

Now we all know that when someone has a mental illness or a mental disorder, that they are not the best at making good decisions for themselves, and their mental illness usually effects their goals and decision-making skills. 

Comparison:
You wouldn't tell a schizophrenic person," The voices in your head are real, if you believe it's real." No, you would put a schizophrenic person through therapy, to explain to them that the voice in their head is not real, and that they need to come back to reality. You are not affirming what they believe to be real, because if you did, that would cause them a lot of pain a distress, as well as others. 

In the same way, you wouldn't tell a transgender person." You are actually a woman, if you believe you, are a woman." It's the same concept. 
#29
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@sadolite
If Jonny thinks he is Jeff is he mentally ill? schizophrenia? If Jonny thinks he is Jennifer, is he mentally ill? schizophrenia?

Schizophrenia is a  mental disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally.

And the transgender ideology (gender dysphoria) is a mental disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally.

#30
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@TWS1405_2
Whoa, did I just witness critical thinking?