If only Stephen would become a Theist, I could agree with him in almost every way.

Author: RationalMadman

Posts

Total: 74
#31
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
Stephen. 
Do you consider yourself a good scripture translator?
 No. Because I haven't "translated" anything.

Stephen?
What?
Hey stephen.
Is it safe to say you are in the Top 10,000 peoples that's ever been and is,  when it comes to deciphering ?
No. Mine is all opinion backed up with what I believe to be evidence. All "evidence" can be disputed and debunked.
Top 1000 ?
No
Top 100 ? 
No

Ten. 
No
From that. I HAVE  AND  CAN see other story COMMENT #26 i ummmmm.
I have said many times here on this forum that I believe there is another story that the gospellers are desperate to hide. It is not the "gospel truth".

i have and can now see what type of person you are. 
I am not sure you can. but who am I to tell you what you can and cannot "see"?

I get it now. 
Nice.

Hey stephen ,  Good weekend mate. 

Thank you.

#32
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
I have and can see another story hidden below the surface of these scriptures.
So do I - but it's a very different hidden story.   I see a story of humans writing propaganda.

Topic's author
#33
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@keithprosser
truer words never spoken.
#34
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@keithprosser
So do I - but it's a very different hidden story.   I see a story of humans writing propaganda.

Mixing truth with lies is the way forward for any organisation or movement to further the cause. In other words and in this case scriptural half truths and half stories to further the cause of christianity, as I have been saying since the day I joined this forum.

#35
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
 I am not against all religion, in fact the only religion I can honestly say I am against, is ISLAM. 
May i suggest that what is 'wrong' about islam is that its followers take it seriously.   What makes Christianity 'nicer' is that it has been secularised and diluted by humanism.   I am not sure that a society dominated by Christian zealots would be all that different from an Islamist state.. 

Imagine a world with Westboro Baptists in charge.
Topic's author
#36
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Stephen
Stephen, you don't get it yet. Whether or not a few named characters were real people or not, the story of NT is 80% strategised propaganda to make you happy to sit back and forgive tyrants as they pillage your family and friends and own you, replacing your flag and values. Islam is the inverse of this; it encourages you to be the one doing the pillaging. In theory Islam is worse but in practise the bystander-training Christianity has been just as bad although today Islam is doing just fine at outperforming Christianity at tyranny and mania.
#37
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
I am puzzled as to why you have sent me a friends request>> «RationalMadman» has sent you a friend request
 06:39PM


but have me on block. Extremely strange behaviour is that , for sure.
No need to respond.

#38
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
Mixing truth with lies is the way forward for any organisation or movement to further the cause. In other words and in this case scriptural half truths and half stories to further the cause of christianity, as I have been saying since the day I joined this forum.

We agree on that much!   But I presume we differ in our interpretation of the mystical and miraculous elements.
Topic's author
#39
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Stephen
I have unblocked you before I friended you.
#40
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
Whether or not a few named characters were real people or not, the story is 80% strategised propaganda to make you happy to sit back and forgive tyrants as they pillage your family and friends and own you, replacing your flag and values.
That isn't the story of the OT which was - i believe - intended to maintain vigorous hebrew/jewish pride at a very critical time in their history.   However i'd agree the NT is politically passivist.  

#41
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
May i suggest that what is 'wrong' about islam is that its followers take it seriously. 


you can suggest what you like. 
But yes,  millions of them do. They either carry out the words of Allah and his prophet to the letter or they support in many ways those that do carry out the words of Allah and his prophet to the letter.


  What makes Christianity 'nicer' is that it has been secularised and diluted by humanism.  

sounds like your complaining.


I am not sure that a society dominated by Christian zealots would be all that different from an Islamist state..  

Opinion. But christianity on the whole, it cannot be denied, is far far more civilised. The NT does not preach or teach violence against the non believer, as does the Quran. 



Imagine a world with Westboro Baptists in charge.
Maybe terrible? But it would not be on the orders of The christ god Jesus. Nowhere in the scripture does he teach violence or orders violence towards those who do not believe in him, as does the Quran.
 

#42
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@RationalMadman
Stephen, ............strategised propaganda to make you happy to sit back and forgive tyrants as they pillage your family and friends and own you, replacing your flag and values

Your preaching to the converted. i know what the strategy behind these scriptures is.

. Islam is the inverse of this;
I know enough about Islam to understand it is the most vile barbaric ideology ever foisted onto humankind. Why don't you start a thread on islam. I would be happy to indulge you, but you already know my stance on the subject now don't you?



.
#43
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
Can we discuss Islam?   Of course we can, but could Muslims discuss Christianity to any great depth?  How much do people know about Shia/Sunni split, for instance.
#44
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@keithprosser
Mixing truth with lies is the way forward for any organisation or movement to further the cause. In other words and in this case scriptural half truths and half stories to further the cause of christianity, as I have been saying since the day I joined this forum.

We agree on that much!   But I presume we differ in our interpretation of the mystical and miraculous elements.

There are no "mystical and miraculous elements" in the bible to my knowledge. I have ALSO said this many many many many many may times now, since the day I joined this forum..

I believe many of the so called "mystical and miraculous elements" can be explained, and I believe I have explained many of them. Most of these "miracles", water into wine , raising the dead etc,  are simple rites and rituals that go back thousands of years before Jesus. And many are still practiced today in modern freemasonry.
#45
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@keithprosser
Can we discuss Islam?   Of course we can,

So?


but could Muslims discuss Christianity to any great depth? 
What is stopping them?

How much do people know about Shia/Sunni split, for instance.

I know. And it would take seconds for anyone interested to find out in this age of the internet, now would it. Besides there may well be a split but muslims are all under the umbrella of Islam. It is a case of - I can call my sister a whore- but if you do, I will have your head off. 
#46
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
So your position is, say, Jesus appeared to walk on water but it was a conjurer's trick?
  
In your opinion, did he rise from the dead?

in case your wondering, i prefer to consider them pure fictions.
#47
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
Their book says Mary is part of the trinity. They also think the comforter was Mohammed(it's not, it's the spirit of truth, which is right there in the text)

Muslims don't understand Christian theology. If they did, they would be Christians.
#48
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Amazing the length of time you managed to maintain a lie. Very impressive.
#49
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
And it would take seconds for anyone interested to find out in this age of the internet, now would it.
I'd say no. 

Topic's author
#50
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
Muslims don't understand Christian theology. If they did, they would be Christians.

Christians don't understand Jewish theology in exactly the same way except even more so as they hold the OT as true. So... What should all Christians be other than Jewish according to your logic?
#51
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
It's not about understanding things exactly the same way.


Orthodoxy does not teach that Mary is a part of the Trinity. Neither does Orthodoxy teach polytheism as they claim. Neither do the scriptures refer to the paraclete as a prophet to come such as Mohammed. It refers to The Holy Spirit, The Spirit of Truth, and this could not be made more plain in the text. 

So a faulty understanding of Orthodoxy is built into Islam. It's in their Koran. It's in what their scholars teach.








Topic's author
#52
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
And an EVEN MORE faulty teaching OT Bible is ingrained into followers of NT Bible due to not just the words but the interpretations that authorities like the Orthodox Church has. It's even more faulty because they don't say Moses was a false prophet or that David was mistaken or anything like that. They support Abraham and the lot of the OT figures and hold them sacred but then contradict so much in spite of it.
#53
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
RM, I really have to tell you this, and it is in my heart to be polite about it.

You don't really understand my beliefs, nor do you understand the Orthodox faith is or what it teaches. 








Topic's author
#54
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
Do you even know there's 3 versions of Orthodox? Are you adhering to the Greek kind, the East-European kind or the Oriental kind? (yes, there's yellow-type-Asian-race led Orthodox Church with its own denominations within it)
#55
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
You are kind of proving my point.

Really, the main difference between the Oriental Orthodox Churches(by the way, is Ethiopia yellow and asian?) and Eastern Orthodox(which Greek is actually a part of) has to do with ecumenical councils. The Oriental Orthodox churches only accepted 2, while the Eastern accepted 7.


I suppose I would be considered Eastern, but considering one of the elders at my church was talking very fondly of the Ethiopian church, I'd say we are all on pretty good terms and recognize eachother.

The ecumenical councils, to simply, had mostly to do with clarifying doctrine in the face of heresies that would spring up.


I belong to an Antiochan Orthodox church, which is actually the city that Christians first were called as such. The Ethiopian Church was founded by the Apostle Philip. The start of that is actually accounted of in the book of Acts, which is in the New Testament.

The Apostle Thomas founded the church in India, and I believe that would be considered Oriental Orthodox as well.

Topic's author
#56
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
Ethiopia, one of the only 'black-dominant nations' in the world to have people physically via DNA and a culture entitled to be 'true Jew' due to the Semite ties... the only such culture to have its own Orthodox Church that's called Oriental... All that religious heritage, oh so rich and yet one of the poorest dirt-tier places politically, economically and technologically. I cannot fathom what leads people to want to be a part of a religion where being part of it leaves you on the bottom of the pile of the world despite how 'richly historic' you are. Shame, really that they pray for prosperity in blind hope instead of going out there and getting it.
#57
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
The world's idea of what constitutes riches is very different than the riches we value.

Topic's author
#58
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
Oh but it isn't, Churches are so special they even get their own tax exemptions despite asking people who go there for money to pay up or repent.
#59
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
"Pay up or repent",is certainly not what the church teaches.

The Roman church, which was excommunicated by the way, during a certain time did sell indulgences, and that ended up triggering what is called "the protestant reformation".

Most churches in America came out of this protestant reformation, which is really a reaction against the schismatic Roman Catholic Church.
#60
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@keithprosser
So your position is, say, Jesus Appeared to walk on water but it was a conjurer's trick?
 
You said it right there – “appeared to”.
  
In your opinion, did he rise from the dead?
 
No. and he didn't raise the dead either. Not the literal dead, as I have explained here> Lazarus. The "raising". 
 
 
in case your wondering, i prefer to consider them pure fictions.
 
I wasn't wondering.  And I have never said otherwise and you suggesting I have is simply deceit on your part.