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@Polytheist-Witch
For the same reason that a Christian would affect the belief of a Jew.
“Israel My People”
Posts
Total:
118
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@rosends
So not at all then.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Exactly and exactly my point - so when Mopac makes a statement about some "True Religion" or one of the other posters speaks of something supposedly persuasive, each might keep in mind that just as he/they wouldn't be affected by a statement by a Muslim, a Jew easily discounts their statements.
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@rosends
I am simply trying to give you a basic understanding of something so that we can discuss it meaningfully.
If you have it made up to harden your heart, just know that it is your God you reject, not me.
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@Mopac
Please understand that by rejecting your position, I am obeying God. If you do not understand this, it is because you are mistaken in your notion of what God wants. If you harden your heart and insist on embracing an erroneous position, you are making God sad.
See how easy it is to take that dogmatic position and insist that anyone who disagrees is automatically wrong? It isn't meaningful or useful.
A useful discussion of religion informs and educates but does not attempt to persuade. If the information is not enough to convince, then coupling it with "and you are wrong" certainly won't.
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@rosends
I haven't really even tried to be perauasive yet. Why would I bother when you haven't even acknowledged that you received what I said?
Not an ounce of curiosity in you, eh?
I am simply saying that the Jesus you acknowledge is not the same Jesus I believe in. It isn't the Jesus that Orthodoxy accepts either. You are effectively accusing us of worshipping a man as God, which we both know is a terrible superstition.
I am here to educate. You can either make use of the opportunity, or go on believing what you want.
Polytheist-Witch WROTE:#92Muslims have their own text and are not Christians. Why should their beliefs effect a Christian?
Try reading the Quran Witch.
Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith,I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, norwill they have anyone to help."
Quran 3:151 - We will cast terror intothe hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah ofwhich He had not sent down [any]
Quran 5:33 –unless, those who wage war against Allah and HisMessenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption/mischief is none but thatthey be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off fromopposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them adisgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.
Quran 51 - You, whohave believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [infact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – thenindeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
Quran 8:12 - "Iwill cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike offtheir heads and strike off every fingertip of them".
Quran 8:39 And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
Quran 8:60 - And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds ofwar by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and othersbesides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever youspend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not bewronged.
Quran 8:67 - It isnot for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [uponAllah 's enemies] in the land.
Surah 9:5 - "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush".
Quran 9:29 - Fight those who donot believe in Allah or in the Last Day andwho do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawfuland who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given theScripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah (jizyah = tax levied by Muslim on non- - believers or be killed onrefusal to pay) willingly while they are humbled.
Quran 9:30 - The Jewssay, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "TheMessiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths;they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allahdestroy them; how are they deluded?
Quran 9:123 - You who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of thedisbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with therighteous.
APOSTASY: Bukhari : 9.84.57. - ISLAMAND APOSTASY" Prophet Muhammad said: Whoever changed his Islamic religion,then kill him."
Quran 4:89 - They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike.So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause ofAllah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you findthem and take not from among them any ally or helper.
Quran 8:60 - And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds ofwar by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and othersbesides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever youspend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not bewronged.
Surah 9:5 - "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush".
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@Mopac
You asked how Judaism views Jesus (#81). I answered how various Jews view Jesus (#82). You then summed up my answer and gave your own (#83):
"In other words, you see Jesus as simply a man at best.
Well, we Orthodox Christians do not see Jesus as being a man, but The Word of God."
I didn't disagree. That's how you see Jesus. That's your belief (#85). You then chose to continue by telling me that I am not "looking at the same thing." (#86). I, again, didn't disagree, because you have your view and I have mine (#87).
Your next point (#89) was that I am "mistaken" ("Well, it doesn't really matter how people who are mistaken believe,") and that I refuse to be "corrected." You seem to say that your belief is, what you call, the "True Religion." If this is not an attempt at persuasion then it is a ham fisted offering of information. My only response was that your understanding of anything doesn't really interest me. Your summary of that is that I am "hardening my heart" and rejecting God (#94).
Then, in #96 you state "I am simply saying that the Jesus you acknowledge is not the same Jesus I believe in. It isn't the Jesus that Orthodoxy accepts either. You are effectively accusing us of worshipping a man as God, which we both know is a terrible superstition."
Let me try to be crystal clear. I do not acknowledge the Jesus you believe in, nor am in interested ("curious") about the Jesus you believe in. I grant it is different from what I believe. That's all. Next, I'm not accusing you of anything. I am stating that within my belief system, your beliefs have problems. If you don't care how my belief system sees you, and I don't care how your belief sees me then that's all there is.
If you DO care how my belief sees you then you need to work on that for yourself. If your resolution is, therefore, that my belief system is wrong then, great. Remember, I don't care.
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@rosends
Just like non monotheists need to care. See how that all works.
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@rosends
When you said that the way I view Jesus is very different than how others view Jesus, my response was not specifically aimed at you, I was trying to tell you that the wrong views that you have heard are not the right view. If you want to take that personal, go ahead, but really, you would not be talking about the same thing.
So you are saying that you don't believe The Word of God? I thought you said you were Jewish? Or am I mistaken in assuming that you are a Jew who believes in God?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Who says anyone needs to care? While I am fascinated by the various notions and presentations of polytheism I don't expect a polytheist to care about whether I approve or not.
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@Mopac
So you are saying that you don't believe The Word of God? I thought you said you were Jewish? Or am I mistaken in assuming that you are a Jew who believes in God?
I believe that you and I have different understandings of the "Word of God". Thinking that I don't believe in something because I don't accept your understanding of it is a fallacious conflation.
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@rosends
Well, I am not trying to trap you. Maybe you should explain what you think that means.
How do I understand it? Very simply, everything in all of creation came into being by God's Word. God said "Be", and there it is.
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@Mopac
I don't recall saying that you or anyone was trying to trap me. If you want to move into the more esoteric aspects of understanding the nature of God, you might want to think about why God, an infinite and infinitely powerful being needed to say "Be" for things to come into existence.
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@rosends
Yet it is written,
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light"
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@Mopac
True but answering 'what' doesn't address 'why.'
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@rosends
So you are saying that you don't believe The Word of God? I thought you said you were Jewish? Or am I mistaken in assuming that you are a Jew who believes in God?I believe that you and I have different understandings of the "Word of God". Thinking that I don't believe in something because I don't accept your understanding of it is a fallacious conflation.
Well said that man!! 10+
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@Mopac
Yet it is written,
O.K. Simply question. Where is it written? Jesus used this enigmatic phrase often, but we are never told " where" exactly "it is written" .
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@rosends
"Why" is rarely a good question. Why did God make anything?
It is what it is.
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@Stephen
In the book you pretend to be an expert on.
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@Stephen
First page of Genesis, the first book.
Chapter 1
4 And God saw the light, that it wasgood: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he madethe stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it wasgood.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his ownimage, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have givenevery green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
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@Mopac
Why did God make anything?
This is actually another fascinating question with an incredible variety of answers.
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@rosends
"Why" is a question that can have any number of answers, because causality is a great deal more complicated than "this happens because of that"
The Word of God is Truth.
If something doesn't exist in truth, it doesn't exist.
That is why it is written
"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
And also why it is written
"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."
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@rosends
"Why" isn't really a bad question, I might be hasty in that judgement. There are plenty of good why questions.
But why did God create anything? The simple answer is because it was God's will to do so.
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@Mopac
Yet it is written,O.K. Simply question. Where is it written? Jesus used this enigmatic phrase often, but we are never told " where" exactly "it is written" .
So you're saying, Mopac , that when Jesus says , "it is written", he is referring to a book that hadn't even been compiled and written..
.
You really are uneducated aren't you? Jesus never once tells us where "it" or anything else "is written". You clown!
This is actually another fascinating question with an incredible variety of answers.
Yes when one answer is debunked and contradicted with evidence, christians simply change its meaning and come up with another.
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@rosends
Why did God make anything?This is actually another fascinating question with an incredible variety of answers.
Such as?
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@keithprosser
One traditional answer is "so that man might improve himself and glorify God."
Because these are speculative and cannot be absolutely proven or disproven, the sages can cite a variety of sources and argue for the intellectual and philosophical thrill.
http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48929907.html?mobile=yes