we are in time of sorrows

Author: Melcharaz

Posts

Total: 150
#31
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,294
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@FLRW
Bah,
People have a view,
They clump into a group,
Ingroup, Outgroup,
What is valued, what is reviled.

The French Cult of Reason, pf,
Off with everyone's heads,
Who be against the revolution.

The Russians,
Gulag the believers, and any opposed.

The Chinese,
Destroy the temples and all our old culture,
In with the new, which you aren't allowed to question.

. . .

Disregard the accomplishments, contributions, and thought of religious thinkers,
How like yo-
Bah.

I don't disregard Atheist achievements,
But your one-sidedness bothers me.
#32
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
all good things are from the father. Him alone.
all bad things are from the father. Him alone.
#33
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,145
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@RationalMadman
Both assume the father controls outcome and even gives a shit about anything beyond creation.
#34
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@sadolite
Not an assumption at all. It explicitly states it.
#35
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,427
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Melcharaz
love God and then he will teach you to love others. love is not an emotion, its a behavior rooted in the Holy Spirit. which is necessary for salvation and can only be given to those who obey God, asking and waiting on it in faith.
thanks for this topic.  I agree that God will teach us to love others.  I think love is an act of the will - but it also is an emotion. I don't see any reason why it can't be both.  Light comes in waves and in particles.   

I also agree that love is a gift from God. Yet it is also part and parcel of who most people are. The love that comes from God is the type of love that enables you to love your enemies.  the love we grow up with as an emotion will help us love ourselves, our friends, and our family. 

Paul describes love in 1 Corinthians 13 in many ways of application.   There is a sense in which love is also described as "obeying God's commandments". We love God thereby by obeying the commandments. And we love each other, including our enemies by obeying the commandments.  Hence we love our fellow persons by respecting their marriage and not committing adultery, or raping someone. We love our neighbours by not killing them unlawfully, or assaulting them. We love our fellow citizens by not locking them up unnecessarily or being vigilantes but by seeing that justice is brought. We love others by respecting private property and not stealing. We love each other by not lying or being deceptive or bearing false witness.  

This is one way that love is described.  Of course, there are emotional elements that might attach at different times. Yet I am not sure that emotion is what Jesus is necessarily talking about when he says love your enemies.  Rather it is about "how you respond and act towards that person". 

Still, thanks for the topic. 
Topic's author
#36
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
it is inevitable people confuse cause with the effect.
when love works through someone, a emotion will often (but not always) accompany it.

if i give my right arm to save a life, i may have no joy during the process, i may even feel resentment. nevertheless i do love that life in that i give even my arm for that life.
Jesus Christ had no joy (or even desire) in going to the cross. but afterword, joy unspeakable.
Topic's author
#37
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
to the fool(s) i leave this message for you to try and contridict:
Do not confuse the means with the desire. evil and good are allowed by God for his pleasure. yet those things evil in his sight are allowed only to show how good he is.

#38
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,470
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
You are confusing doctrines with laws and norms. In order to live in peace humanity made a system based on rights and duties so to get along with one another. If we don't have laws we might kill each other. As long as we dont evolve to superhumans (using a Nietchzean term), we need this system badly.

On the other side, doctrines are basically beliefs not necessarily held by religions but also by political parties. And it doesnt matter if the doctrine has been proven wrong, insane or nonsensical, indoctrinated people will always hold their doctrines. A good example of it is communism, it doesn matter how much you explain a fvcking communist that communism doesnt work, this mf will never change his mind, he's indoctrinated. Same with religious people.
#39
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,294
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Third definition "law : a principle of law established through past decisions"
Fifth definition "something that is taught"

I don't think I am,
Though I'd be willing to agree that many people use your definition,
Which is also in the link, but I'm in a rush, need to get to bed.

"The Ten Commandments form the basis of Jewish law,"

Religion, laws and cultural norms, often go hand in hand I'd argue.

I ask again,
How do you define religion?

Not because I'm trying to corner you, but because I don't understand your view.
Goodnight for now though.
#40
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
@ Melcharaz,

-->@BrotherD.Thomasi will suffer you this question only. you as well have no need to speak with me, seeing as in the past i harassed barney to get a ro against you.love has to do with forgiveness and mercy when the person doesnt deserve it. its giving food if the rapist is hungry, its clothing the harlot, its giving water to the murderer. because love isnt about how we feel, or how evil they are. but that God working through us to have mercy on them, as God has and had mercy on us [..............] that is all i will speak to you regarding this until fruits of repentance is manifest in your life and words.#20

You say love is to do with " giving food if the rapist is hungry, its clothing the harlot, its giving water to the murderer.  "Yet here you are not wanting to give Brother D. even  the time of day!  And you have blocked me for no reason that I know.   Don't make me laugh.🤣

#41
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,470
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
I would argue about it. Old civilizations were theocratic, like the jewish, so it's evident their laws "come from God". But as far as I know, our civilization is based on greek and roman culture which were more secular. There might be some influence from religion, but greek democracy was more about consensus, not about a priest that impose his particular view.
#42
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,294
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
I do not disagree that the West was/is influenced by Greece and Rome,


"Historical democracies with state sponsored religious laws:"


But, do you deny the influence of Christianity upon the west?
#43
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,436
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Lemming
The following is from: CHRISTIANITY AND THE WEST
                                                  by g
he importance of Christianity in the formation of Western civilization can hardly be denied. That importance is not simply a matter of the past. In the process of secularization Western culture did emancipate itself from its religious roots, but that emancipation was by no means complete. A complete break from Christianity was not intended in the seventeenth century by those who wanted to put the public culture on an anthropological rather than religious foundation. The issue at that time was not a revolt against the Christian religion, nor even against its influence on the culture. Rather, there was an urgently felt need to get beyond the confessional antagonisms and religious warfare that had disrupted the peace of Europe for more than a century. The turn away from Christianity as the basis of public culture was not, at least in the first instance, caused by alienation from the Christian religion, although that turn may have produced alienation in the long run. Beginning with the eighteenth century, however, the humanistic values associated with modernity were viewed as being completely independent from the Christian religion, and even antithetical to it. In our century the circumstance is again different. Today, familiarity with Christian teaching has faded; biblical narratives and the vocabulary of Christian faith are no longer common cultural currency.

This is the key, "the humanistic values associated with modernity were viewed as being completely independent from the Christian religion".
#44
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,294
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@FLRW
And I disagree with that assessment.
#45
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen
@Melcharaz

.
Stephen,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE TO THE OUTRIGHT HYPOCRITE PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN  MELCHARAZ:   "You say love is to do with " giving food if the rapist is hungry, its clothing the harlot, its giving water to the murderer.  "Yet here you are not wanting to give Brother D. even  the time of day!  And you have blocked me for no reason that I know.   Don't make me laugh.🤣"

Did we expect anything less from the Bible inept and hypocrite Melcharaz? NO WE DIDN'T!  Just because I have owned his Bible stupidity in the past, he had to go crying like a little baby to Barney to put an RO upon me, that alone, shows how inept Melcharaz is relating to the JUDEO-Christian Bible because he couldn't stand to be corrected!

As we do when blocked by the equally Bible stupid Miss Tradesecret, we speak around them in this forum to get the point across in showing their outright Bible dumbness!
.
#46
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
Breath-taking Brother D.

SENT
#47
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam

.
YouFound_Lxam, which is trying to be Bible Dumber®️ than Miss Tradesecret, and has now committed Jesus' unpardonable sin, 

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU STILL DOING IN THIS RELIGION FORUM AFTER YOU CREATED JESUS' UNPARDONABLE SIN???!!!  

You have absolutely no right to be in this prestigious Religion Forum, and especially spewing Bible propositions to the membership because you are outright guilty as charged in committing the dreadful unpardonable sin as shown in the link above because you went against Jesus' Triune Doctrine in sinning against His Holy Spirit!

Do you think that you know more than Jesus AS GOD, when His word specifically states that you committed the unpardonable Sin? NOT!

Do the simple math, NO ONE, I repeat,  NO ONE will listen to you now after your ungodly action against Jesus the Christ! UNDERSTOOD?

BE GONE SATAN!

.
#48
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam

.
YouFound_Lxam, which is trying to be Bible Dumber®️ than Miss Tradesecret, and has now committed the unpardonable sin, 

YOUR STUPID QUOTE ONCE AGAIN: "Also, don't mind Brother D.He is a certified troll." 

TROLL DEFINITION: A troll is Internet slang for a person who intentionally tries to instigate conflict, hostility, or arguments in an online social community platform.  

Listen up Bible fool, in prayer with Jesus last night He told me that I am NOT a troll for intentionally instigating conflict with you still being upon this forum subsequent to you committing the Unpardonable Sin! Do you understand?  He told me that he cannot wait to see you upon Judgment Day!

YOU WILL NEVER LIVE THIS UNPARDONABLE SIN FACT DOWN, AS LONG AS YOU REMAIN UPON THIS FORUM!






#49
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,470
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
No, I don't deny the Christian influence. But I don't know what it has to do with doctrines. We don't live under doctrines anymore because christianity doesnt have the same influence as in the past. We are living our lives more freely. Aren't we?

Actually I would dare to say the church is losing followers and power in favour of other Christian sects and even other beliefs like budhism, and the like.
#50
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,294
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Well, we disagree on the definition of doctrine as well.

Cultures, communities, nations,
Have values, curriculums that they brainwash the new generation with,
I don't mean that word negatively,
It's simply descriptive, to my thinking.

Living more freely. . .
I don't know,
Someone being a Christian,
Doesn't make them unfree, I think.
#51
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7

.
MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and says that the Bible contradicts itself, she is a hypocrite, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!!!”


YOUR QUOTE THAT WILL EASILY BE BIBLICALLY TURNED AROUND:   "I also agree that love is a gift from God."

JESUS SAID: "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37)

Miss Tradesecret,  do you love Jesus more than your children as His word implies that you are to do in being worthy of Jesus?


JESUS SAID: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

Miss Tradesecret, furthermore, in order to be a disciple of Jesus as shown above by Jesus, you have to hate your children as the passage above so states, therefore, how bad do you hate your children, and at the same time, how can you still love them IF YOU HAVE TO HATE THEM AS JESUS SAID?  Can you explain this conundrum to the membership? NOT!  LOL!


Yes, I know, the above questions are way over your head in understanding to try and explain them away in biblical contradiction, and you will just RUN AWAY from them in front of the membership like you've done since your arrival here on this Religion Forum in showing you to be the continued #1 Bible fool of this forum.  

NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "MISS TRADESECRET" THAT HAS TO RUN AWAY FROM JESUS' DISTURBING WORDS, AND STILL WANTS TO BE CALLED AN ASSUMED CHRISTIAN, WILL BE ... ?

.
Topic's author
#52
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
as Lord liveth. Judgement will come.
as you have disregarded others, so will you be disregarded. as you have judged others, you will be judged.
this is not a threat it is a promise.
Now is the time to seek God and obey him. do not listen to man, mankind is full of error and God said cursed is the man that trusteth in man, in the arm of flesh and does not trust God.

dont be afraid to ask others what they mean when they speak. debate is not a competition, only a platform for understanding. such a thing has been lost here.

anasum atiqueia
#53
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2

as you have disregarded others, so will you be disregarded
That's rich coming from you. See post #40
Maybe your quote above is something that you should take on board, hypocrite!
#54
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,004
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Stephen
If there is a GOD, one would assume that it is omni-sensible.

Not a trait that Christians credit their GOD with.


As Lord liveth, judgement will come.
WTF does that mean.
#55
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4


As Lord liveth, judgement will come.
WTF does that mean.
Not sure myself  I think it maybe Psalms? , Vic, I am too idle to check.  But the god fearing Melcharaz says: 

"dont be afraid to ask others what they mean when they speak "#52
#56
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Melcharaz
No, we are in a time of self annihilation through factually inaccurate data contrary to factual reality. 
Topic's author
#57
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@TWS1405_2
fact, as you portray it, is bound to your own understanding. Truth is what is and what happens regardless of understanding.

this world is tired, its in sorrow, it heaves with groanings and stumbles as if drunk.
objectively and truthfully, we are in sorrowful times.
#58
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
@Melcharaz,

this world is tired, its in sorrow, it heaves with groanings and stumbles as if drunk.
objectively and truthfully, we are in sorrowful times.

Yes. It is an occurrence that happens with the change from one celestial house to another. Jesus was more than aware of these facts. Read your bible. Better still, read the Sumerian epics. They don't try disguise the facts as do the bible authors.
#59
Public-Choice
Public-Choice's avatar
Debates: 19
Posts: 1,065
3
4
8
Public-Choice's avatar
Public-Choice
3
4
8
-->
@Stephen
Anyone can cherry pick Scripture and use it for their own motives. It's much harder for people to willfully quote it properly, because when properly quoted it is impossible to debunk.

The greatest commandment, according to Jesus, is "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself."

From that alone it is abundantly clear that the passages you are referring to speak of a separation between those who follow God and love others, and those who don't, and the separation is not violently caused by God, but by people choosing to reject Him and His greatest commandment.

Love is always hated by the world. Just think about it for a second:

  1. MLK "let's treat each other equally and judge by character and not skin color" was killed.
  2. Ghandi "don't murder others and be pacifist" was killed.
  3. Socrates "let's intelligently discuss things instead of being violent" was killed.
  4. Jesus "let's love people the way we would wish to be loved" was killed.
People HATE love. It's proven in whom they killed who preached it. All the greatest figures who preached love were always hated, vilified, and killed.
Topic's author
#60
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@Public-Choice
Your eyes are open. the love they showed and preached is not like the love that this world has.
but i wonder, would you be willing to die to show selfless and peacebringing love?
if not die by others, then death of your desires for loves sake.