Great plan to abolish "meat industry and factory farm" and save the animals

Author: Best.Korea

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@Best.Korea
But in order to mass produce eggs, we would have to imprison chickens, and they have rights too, don't they?
Actually, chickens dont need to be imprisoned in a factory. There is this thing called pasture. Just let them walk around on a grassland eating insects and wild edibles. No need to imprison them.


And also, for milk, and cheese, we would have to have a lot of cows.........in factory's..........producing milk.
Cows dont need to be imprisoned in a factory to produce milk. Pasture is better. It is like setting them free, but still getting milk from them.

No, but to mass produce these things, we would need factories. 

Actually, we wont have a shortage of protein. Vegetables, nuts, grains, insects, milk, eggs - they all have protein.
If a cow dies, it is not a waste. It can be converted into fertilizer or fed to wild animals.

Surplus in cows can be controlled by separating males from females on pasture farms from time to time, and in nature it is controlled by predators.
So, we control their sex life, we won't be mass producing food, and the predators get to eat meat, but not us?

I think that its due to the difference in brain size. Insects have much much smaller brain. If I had to choose between cows and insects, I would go for insects. 
Well, cows have a smaller brain than us, if you're comparing it to the bodyweight, and so do insects too. What is the distinction between animal rights, and bug rights?

That being said, we need to divide the land between ourselves and animals. Currently, plenty of land is used on animals to produce meat from them. If that land is transformed into pasture for milk and eggs, and some of it for plant production, and some of it being free and given to animals, that would be great.
Then you're going to run into the problem of humans populating the earth. The number is always increasing, and you would have to choose who to kick out of their home or kill. 

Question: Who would you save, if you could pick only one, cows or humans.

Which species is more important, cows or humans. 
Polytheist-Witch
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Milk cows live on farms. They are milked twice a day in a barn then put out to pasture.  
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@YouFound_Lxam
No, but to mass produce these things, we would need factories. 
Actually, no. There is a good amount of farmers choosing pasture over factory farm.

The production rates arent significantly different.

We need less than 800 million cows to get enough cow milk for all humans. Currently, we have over 1 billion due to meat demand.

We have multiplied the cows too much. There is too many of them. Since we dont need them all, we can set free those who are surplus.

Of course, people becoming vegetarians would make farmers focus on milk production. Also, buying milk that comes from pasture farms would help too.

Since vegetables usually produce at least double the amount of food per acre than cows, we will not be in any food deficit. We will end up in surplus if we convert more land to vegetable farming as opposed to cow farming.

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@Best.Korea
Actually, no. There is a good amount of farmers choosing pasture over factory farm.

The production rates arent significantly different.

We need less than 800 million cows to get enough cow milk for all humans. Currently, we have over 1 billion due to meat demand.

We have multiplied the cows too much. There is too many of them. Since we dont need them all, we can set free those who are surplus.

Of course, people becoming vegetarians would make farmers focus on milk production. Also, buying milk that comes from pasture farms would help too.

Since vegetables usually produce at least double the amount of food per acre than cows, we will not be in any food deficit. We will end up in surplus if we convert more land to vegetable farming as opposed to cow farming.
Your forgetting that we would need more, because people need the right to buy as much food as possible.
If this plan takes action, it would take away many rights from many people.  
Best.Korea
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To Polytheist-Witch:
Milk cows live on farms. They are milked twice a day in a barn then put out to pasture. 
There are farmers who choose factory farming. There are also small farmers who choose to "keep cow in barn all the time and bring it food" instead of letting a cow outside on a pasture.
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@YouFound_Lxam
people need the right to buy as much food as possible
In that case, they should become vegetarian. Vegetarian food is much cheaper than meat and doesnt spoil as quickly.


If this plan takes action, it would take away many rights from many people.
I doubt it would take away any rights. It is on voluntary basis. No one has to become a vegetarian or stop eating meat or stop factory farming. However, a farmer has every right to stop factory farming if he chooses. And buyer has every right to stop buying meat, if he chooses.
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@Best.Korea
In that case, they should become vegetarian. Vegetarian food is much cheaper than meat and doesnt spoil as quickly.
Ok, but we would still need to mass produce eggs, cheese, and milk. 

I doubt it would take away any rights. It is on voluntary basis. No one has to become a vegetarian or stop eating meat or stop factory farming. However, a farmer has every right to stop factory farming if he chooses. And buyer has every right to stop buying meat, if he chooses.
So your arguing that we should just stop mass producing animals, but then give out solutions that require the mass production of animals.
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@YouFound_Lxam
then give out solutions that require the mass production of animals
No, I already said we only need 700 million cows for milk, but we have over a billion.

Meat wont be replaced by milk and eggs, but by plants and milk and eggs. Out of those 3, plants are dominant.

Milk and eggs are only there for some vitamin b12 and taste.

Of course, we could replace milk and eggs with insects, but until I see more insect farms and eating insects is not being looked down upon, I will rule out insects as a solution.
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@Best.Korea
No, I already said we only need 700 million cows for milk, but we have over a billion.
Yes,  because people have the right to buy as much meat as they want. Sure they should buy just as much as they need, but enforcing that would be taking away American rights. The demand for meat is really high.

Meat wont be replaced by milk and eggs, but by plants and milk and eggs. Out of those 3, plants are dominant.
Yes, but again, you can't live by plants alone. You would have to have a steady source of milk and eggs as well. And to do that, with high demand from the American people eating as much as they buy, you would have to mass produce milk and eggs, therefore farming cows, and chickens in factories. 


Of course, we could replace milk and eggs with insects, but until I see more insect farms and eating insects is not being looked down upon, I will rule out insects as a solution.
Also the fact that killing insects would hurt their feelings, and make them suffer. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
enforcing that would be taking away American rights
I feel like I already said nothing would be enforced.


have to mass produce milk and eggs, therefore farming cows, and chickens in factories
Unless, of course, we all agree to abolish factory farming and focus on pasture farms.


Also the fact that killing insects would hurt their feelings, and make them suffer
Surely a less of an evil than killing a cow.


high demand from the American people
Unless of course americans agree that one liter of milk daily is enough. That being said, 0.6 liters is usually enough, but I feel generous.
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@Best.Korea
Surely a less of an evil than killing a cow.
And killing a cow is less of an evil than killing a human. 

Unless of course americans agree that one liter of milk daily is enough. That being said, 0.6 liters is usually enough, but I feel generous.
Making a law, on how much someone can eat or drink in one day, is taking freedom away.

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@Best.Korea
To produce milk a Cow must produce a Calf, approximately once a year.

So what to do with all the bull calves?

Currently with either eat them or euthanise them.

If we keep them all, we will end up with millions to look after.

We will also end up with either millions of surplus cows, or millions of gallons of surplus milk.


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@YouFound_Lxam
Making a law, on how much someone can eat or drink in one day, is taking freedom away.
I clearly said "if they agree", not "they must agree". Each individual has freedom to disagree and do what he pleases.
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@zedvictor4
We will also end up with either millions of surplus cows, or millions of gallons of surplus milk.
I think I mentioned before that surplus cows are to be released on grasslands unused by humans so that they are controlled by predators.

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@zedvictor4
The alternative would be not letting cows reproduce further after their first calf, in case that calf is female.

I was thinking between "controlling reproduction to reduce their numbers" or "releasing cows to the unused grasslands".

The idea of releasing them sounds a bit better.
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@Best.Korea
The title of this thread, is, "Great plan to abolish "meat industry and factory farm" and save the animals."

I clearly said "if they agree", not "they must agree". Each individual has freedom to disagree and do what he pleases.
So are you saying we should encourage, people to live this way, and not make it a plan to abolish it/make it illegal?
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@YouFound_Lxam
So are you saying we should encourage, people to live this way, and not make it a plan to abolish it/make it illegal?
The plan is to encourage people to live this way.

The way I see it,
if everyone agrees to not eat meat, then the meat industry will be abolished as no one will eat meat.

If plenty of people agree not to eat meat, farmers will reduce the number of cows they have.
In this case, meat industry will be reduced.

The plan is not "to make it illegal" in any sense.
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@Best.Korea
The plan is to encourage people to live this way.
Ok, well in that case, I don't have to argue with you. I may not want to live that way, but I'm not against people expressing how they think people should live, but don't have to. 

The way I see it,
if everyone agrees to not eat meat, then the meat industry will be abolished as no one will eat meat.

If plenty of people agree not to eat meat, farmers will reduce the number of cows they have.
In this case, meat industry will be reduced.

The plan is not "to make it illegal" in any sense.
Well, I guess more meat for me then, Lol.
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@Best.Korea
What’s your opinion on cultured meat?
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@Best.Korea
So why don't we predate upon them and control them?

Well, because some people like to overthink the fact that we are omnivorous animals.


Is being slowly mauled to death by a pack of wolves any nicer that being killed in an abattoir?

And where is all this unused pasture and where are all the predators?



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@Reece101
What’s your opinion on cultured meat?
It is getting cheaper. I wont eat it, but I assume some meat eaters could switch to it.
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@Reece101
Cultured meat just highlights Vegan hypocrisy. The desire for meat and yet a meat free ideology.

Though the viability of any protein source will largely depend upon cost. 
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@zedvictor4
So why don't we predate upon them and control them?
If we control them by killing them, what do we do with them after we kill them?


Well, because some people like to overthink the fact that we are omnivorous animals.
The term "omnivorous" simply means "we can eat meat". It doesnt mean "we must eat meat".


Is being slowly mauled to death by a pack of wolves any nicer that being killed in an abattoir?
Wolves need meat to increase their numbers.

In nature, cows are hunted by predators. We are simply restoring how things were.

The "cow number" is a problem with no nice answer to it. They multiplied the amount of cows to the point where there is no "easy way to return all cows to nature".

If we dont feed cows, cows die.

If we feed cows, and dont allow them to reproduce, it will take them a long time to die and they will stop producing milk while we have to continue providing them food.

If we decide to kill a great number of them to get rid of them, that seems to be just cruel.

If we continue with reproducing and killing cows, then that kills even more cows and then we are not acheiving anything.

If we release them into nature, some will be eaten by predators and some will live without us having to feed them.

So out of all options, returning them to nature seems to be the most beneficial to cows, predators and humans.


And where is all this unused pasture and where are all the predators?
Unused pasture lands/abandoned grasslands are spread across the planet, they are not all in one place.
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@YouFound_Lxam
They were created for human consumption
Not originally... 
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@Skipper_Sr
Not originally... 
Yea, they do the world a big favor just walking around and eating/sleeping.
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@zedvictor4
@Reece101
@Best.Korea
What is cultured meat?
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@Skipper_Sr
Meat cultured from cells. “Lab grown meat.” 
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@Reece101
So does it contain life?

Or is it just a chemical structure?

If it's grown from living cells, then one would assume that it is a structure that contains life.

Which would be sort of like rearing an animal.

And sort of counter-productive for vegans.
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@zedvictor4
Vegans aren’t fundamentally against eating cells. Plants have cells. Your post is safe.

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@Reece101
For sure.

But animals are also an organic cellular structure.

And cellular organic structures have to possess a certain something in order to grow, don't they.

So what is cultured meat grown from?

Animal stem cells if my research is correct.

So certainly not compliant with vegan ideology.