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@FLRW
Definitely no Clint Eastwood story hour!
Is sending kids to drag shows pedophillia?
Posts
Total:
89
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@ludofl3x
So, the question is "is it appropriate for women to perform in front of children?" As the question stands, obviously yes.
No. This is what normally goes on at Drag Shows, and where they take place:
"Drag queens are performers who dress in flamboyant costumes and often exaggerate feminine traits such as makeup and mannerisms.
They often lip-sync or sing while performing, and they may also dance or do comedy routines. Drag queens typically perform at clubs or events that cater to LGBTQ+ audiences, but they can also be found at mainstream venues such as hotels and nightclubs.
Some drag queens are famous for their outrageous costumes and outrageous personalities, while others are known for their impressive singing or dancing skills. Whatever their style, drag queens add excitement and glamour to any event.
2. Selling merchandise
One of the things that drag queens do to make money is to sell merchandise. This can include anything from t-shirts to makeup brushes to jewelry. Some products that they use and endorse are hip pads, butt pads and products such as Pals Breast Forms.
Any successful drag queen knows that one of the most important elements of their look is a good set of breast forms. Not only do they help to create the desired silhouette, but they also provide support and shape.
Drag queens have a variety of brands to choose from, but one of the most popular is Pals Breast Forms.
They often lip-sync or sing while performing, and they may also dance or do comedy routines. Drag queens typically perform at clubs or events that cater to LGBTQ+ audiences, but they can also be found at mainstream venues such as hotels and nightclubs.
Some drag queens are famous for their outrageous costumes and outrageous personalities, while others are known for their impressive singing or dancing skills. Whatever their style, drag queens add excitement and glamour to any event.
2. Selling merchandise
One of the things that drag queens do to make money is to sell merchandise. This can include anything from t-shirts to makeup brushes to jewelry. Some products that they use and endorse are hip pads, butt pads and products such as Pals Breast Forms.
Any successful drag queen knows that one of the most important elements of their look is a good set of breast forms. Not only do they help to create the desired silhouette, but they also provide support and shape.
Drag queens have a variety of brands to choose from, but one of the most popular is Pals Breast Forms.
Drag queens will often set up a table at their shows and invite people to browse their wares. They may also sell merchandise online through their website or social media platforms. Drag queens typically take a percentage of the sale, so the more they sell, the more money they make. "
These shows just from this one article are portrayed as non-child friendly. If a woman was to do all of this, and perform at these places, would it still be considered. ok?
Even this article shows that drag queens are not meant for kids:
"For example , at an event in Dallas, Texas, earlier this month, drag queens accepted cash tips from young children while writhing suggestively in front of a particularly memorable neon sign that read, "It’s not gonna lick itself." An additional extension of this, as I’ve written before, is children themselves partaking in drag and performing for adult audiences."
"As someone who grew up in the gay community with many drag queens as friends, I don’t think it’s appropriate for kids to be exposed to any of this any more than a child should be taken to a strip club or restaurant chain that is known for revealing staff uniforms. Those defending drag shows as harmless entertainment have framed critics as driven by anti-gay sentiments. But calling out the grooming aspect of this behavior has nothing to do with drag queens being gay. If anything, gay people have long fought negative and false stereotypes about being sexual predators, and the last thing activists should want to do is resurface those fears.
If these were instead women dancing provocatively, giving lap dances, and removing their clothing in front of child onlookers, I’m certain staff and fellow audience members would be disgusted and appalled. The dancers would surely be asked to leave, and there is a high probability that Child Protective Services would be called on parents, as well.
Encouraging children to touch strangers in areas of the body that are usually covered by undergarments and desensitizing kids to overt depictions of adult sexuality is dangerous territory. The reasons for concern are laid bare in recent news of a Pennsylvania drag queen arrested on child pornography charges.
A child is not a prop to be used for political statements or for showing off that one is open-minded and "hip." The fact that some parents see no issue and support this trend is where the focus of discussion should be."
If these were instead women dancing provocatively, giving lap dances, and removing their clothing in front of child onlookers, I’m certain staff and fellow audience members would be disgusted and appalled. The dancers would surely be asked to leave, and there is a high probability that Child Protective Services would be called on parents, as well.
Encouraging children to touch strangers in areas of the body that are usually covered by undergarments and desensitizing kids to overt depictions of adult sexuality is dangerous territory. The reasons for concern are laid bare in recent news of a Pennsylvania drag queen arrested on child pornography charges.
A child is not a prop to be used for political statements or for showing off that one is open-minded and "hip." The fact that some parents see no issue and support this trend is where the focus of discussion should be."
This is not just a child friendly "oh watch me sing and dance" type of performance. This is literally perverted at the core.
Yes, I'm not mad that you think I'm a dick for wanting people to feel like they can have their freedom of expression. COmpletely comfortable.
Freedom of expression, that includes this type of stuff:
Second link is a male teenager dancing in front of adult men, in a club, where minors are not allowed. This is the stuff being pushed. If that is not grooming, then I don't know what is.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ah, I see one of the problems: you're arguing a straw man. No one thinks it's okay to bring a child to a strip club, no rational person. The question put forth, and perhaps my issue for not asking for clarification, "Is sending kids to drag shows pedophilia," I figured could only apply to shows that have content appropriate for children (i.e. the drag queen story hours I mentioned, or breakfast hours with drag queens, etc.). I'm not really in the habit of clicking on links from teenage strangers on the internet, but your excerpt that ends with this:
These shows just from this one article are portrayed as non-child friendly. If a woman was to do all of this, and perform at these places, would it still be considered. ok?
What's the objection you have? Why would a woman sell a set of breast forms, and why would children be there? Curious though...if a woman did those things, would cry GROOMING?
You are really obsessed with one drag show in Texas, huh? I'd say that I don't think it's appropriate to bring children to adult themed shows, or have minors in clubs that serve alcohol, full stop. That has nothing to do with drag queens, though. We are talking about two different things. Strip clubs, male or female, trans or cis, are not for children. But let's talk about the word "grooming." This is an extremely dangerous idea. What do you think it means? I think, for example, that it's entirely probable that the people using this term are uncomfortable with a young person (think 16 not 8) discovering their sexuality, and discovering that it isn't like most people's sexuality. That drag queens aren't grooming (does this mean 'recruiting'?) anyone, but what they may be doing is encouraging that 16 year old (IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER) to just be comfortable with whatever they are, and demonstrating that there's a community of people just like them, or potentially even weirder and more ludicrous (this is how I would describe every drag queen at any show: ludicrous, in the best way). That they're not some marginal meaningless kid, they're not alone. You example of the drag queen inviting people to look at their wares, even a sixteen year old...they're INVITING them, not compelling them. It's a way to de-mystify them, to assure someone they're not a monster like they might have been told. They're just a person who prefers to live their life in a certain way, and if that's what you as a sexually confused 16 year old think you might want to do, well, this is what you're going to want. I am not surprised you don't see the value in it, only the nefarious exceptions, which of course I will concede exist. They're just the vast minority, and you think they're not because you have literally zero exposure to different perspectives, which is to be expected.
My advice is to just go to a drag show and see if you actually think it is what your facebook feed is telling you. I've been to them, I'm not gay, I have kids, no one tried to sell me a butt plug, the shows are fun. As is to be expected from someone your age, you have a lot of life to experience and make your own judgements on.
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@YouFound_Lxam
A big issue is that some parents are not notified this is happening to their children. Boys notably have a hard enough time adjusting to social life in today's woke culture that otherizes men. It's criminal to teach prepubescent boys that it okay to develop a hyper-feminized personality with no consequences when they may want to start heterosexual relationships and maybe a family later in life and they don't understand why normal women do not take them seriously.
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@ludofl3x
I figured could only apply to shows that have content appropriate for children (i.e. the drag queen story hours I mentioned, or breakfast hours with drag queens, etc.). I'm not really in the habit of clicking on links from teenage strangers on the internet, but your excerpt that ends with this:
Yes, that is exactly what I am arguing. Find me a child friendly drag queen, and we are good.
What's the objection you have? Why would a woman sell a set of breast forms, and why would children be there? Curious though...if a woman did those things, would cry GROOMING?
I don't know, but it's happening with guys, you tell me.
You are really obsessed with one drag show in Texas, huh? I'd say that I don't think it's appropriate to bring children to adult themed shows, or have minors in clubs that serve alcohol, full stop. That has nothing to do with drag queens, though
Drag queens usually perform at these places, making them drag shows.
We are talking about two different things. Strip clubs, male or female, trans or cis, are not for children. But let's talk about the word "grooming." This is an extremely dangerous idea. What do you think it means? I think, for example, that it's entirely probable that the people using this term are uncomfortable with a young person (think 16 not 8) discovering their sexuality, and discovering that it isn't like most people's sexuality.
If someone's sexuality is true, they wouldn't need others help to find it. Someone "helping" you find your sexuality isn't actually helping you, they are pushing you to do what they want you to be. If you have a specific sexuality, then you could tell yourself that.
That drag queens aren't grooming (does this mean 'recruiting'?) anyone, but what they may be doing is encouraging that 16 year old (IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER) to just be comfortable with whatever they are, and demonstrating that there's a community of people just like them, or potentially even weirder and more ludicrous (this is how I would describe every drag queen at any show:
Yes, in an inappropriate manner. Grooming.
We shouldn't be inappropriate with kids, yes? This constitutes as grooming.
My advice is to just go to a drag show and see if you actually think it is what your facebook feed is telling you. I've been to them, I'm not gay, I have kids, no one tried to sell me a butt plug, the shows are fun. As is to be expected from someone your age, you have a lot of life to experience and make your own judgements on
Open your eyes and look at the evidence layed out in front of you.
You are really obsessed with one drag show in Texas, huh? I'd say that I don't think it's appropriate to bring children to adult themed shows, or have minors in clubs that serve alcohol, full stop. That has nothing to do with drag queens, thoughDrag queens usually perform at these places, making them drag shows.
Have you learned about "sets" and "subsets" yet? The kind of show you're talking about is a subset of adult entertainment. There aren't any strip clubs appropriate for 8 year olds, drag queens are immaterial to the proposition. You yourself have pointed out you wouldn't argue that a child should be at a woman-performed strip show.
We are talking about two different things. Strip clubs, male or female, trans or cis, are not for children. But let's talk about the word "grooming." This is an extremely dangerous idea. What do you think it means? I think, for example, that it's entirely probable that the people using this term are uncomfortable with a young person (think 16 not 8) discovering their sexuality, and discovering that it isn't like most people's sexuality.If someone's sexuality is true, they wouldn't need others help to find it. Someone "helping" you find your sexuality isn't actually helping you, they are pushing you to do what they want you to be. If you have a specific sexuality, then you could tell yourself that.
You're responding to something I didn't say. I didn't say 'helping' anyone 'find' their sexuality. Read it again. Telling a sexually maturing kid that their sexuality and gender identity is their business and no one else's, and that even if you're in the minority, you're not alone and support exists for you, that's not 'pushing' anyone to do anything.
We shouldn't be inappropriate with kids, yes? This constitutes as grooming.
Agree...but it is not exclusive or in any way prevalent in the transgender community. You've yet to show otherwise. Are kids who find their dad's porno stash being groomed?
My advice is to just go to a drag show and see if you actually think it is what your facebook feed is telling you. I've been to them, I'm not gay, I have kids, no one tried to sell me a butt plug, the shows are fun. As is to be expected from someone your age, you have a lot of life to experience and make your own judgements onOpen your eyes and look at the evidence layed out in front of you.
THis response is a non-sequitur and I have looked at what you've laid out, it's rather thin. Feel free to try to buttress it, but again I'm not going to click on strange youtube links or an infowars story, so you will just have to express yourself with your own words I'm afraid.
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@ludofl3x
Have you learned about "sets" and "subsets" yet? The kind of show you're talking about is a subset of adult entertainment. There aren't any strip clubs appropriate for 8 year olds, drag queens are immaterial to the proposition. You yourself have pointed out you wouldn't argue that a child should be at a woman-performed strip show.
I would argue that. A kid being at any form of strip club is bad.
You're responding to something I didn't say. I didn't say 'helping' anyone 'find' their sexuality. Read it again. Telling a sexually maturing kid that their sexuality and gender identity is their business and no one else's, and that even if you're in the minority, you're not alone and support exists for you, that's not 'pushing' anyone to do anything.
Yes, a sexually maturing kid. Not kids.
Agree...but it is not exclusive or in any way prevalent in the transgender community. You've yet to show otherwise. Are kids who find their dad's porno stash being groomed?
We are not talking about the transgender community. We are talking about drag queens.
As for your example, if the dad were to willingly show them, then yes that would be constituted as grooming.
Even if we were talking about the transgender community, it would be considered grooming, but that is a topic for another time.
THis response is a non-sequitur and I have looked at what you've laid out, it's rather thin. Feel free to try to buttress it, but again I'm not going to click on strange youtube links or an infowars story, so you will just have to express yourself with your own words I'm afraid.
Already have expressed myself with words, and used evidence to back my words up. It's your choice to look at the evidence. So you either believe everything that is coming out of my mouth, or you look at the evidence I provide, and combine it with my words, and make your own logical conclusion off of that.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I would argue that. A kid being at any form of strip club is bad.
You're right, there's a typo in my response, SHOULD should be shouldn't. My fault.
We are not talking about the transgender community. We are talking about drag queens.
See my earlier post about sets and subsets.
It's your choice to look at the evidence. So you either believe everything that is coming out of my mouth, or you look at the evidence I provide, and combine it with my words, and make your own logical conclusion off of that.
I've done so, and find your argument poorly supported and unconvincing. I think I've made that clear enough. Your evidence is cherry picked.
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@ludofl3x
I've done so, and find your argument poorly supported and unconvincing. I think I've made that clear enough. Your evidence is cherry picked.
You just stated you refused to look at any youtube links or any evidence I provide.
Your evidence is non-existent. Mine is based off of many sources, not cherry picked.
Try to find kid friendly drag shows, and that will be cherry picked.
sets and subsets.
So drag queens are also trans people?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Right, so you have to read the material, then form your own argument based on it. My evidence is that there are literally hundreds and hundreds of drag shows that read books to children, in many, many communities, and a vanishingly small number of them are problematic (this is the cherry picked evidence, like three instances that you've posted links to, most of them one show in Dallas). Google it yourself, it's your main research tool. Kids love them because they're like living cartoon characters and they're silly.
So drag queens are also trans people?
I suppose some might not be, but a vast majority would say they're trans.
Have you ever talked to a real trans person?
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@TheUnderdog
I don't know.
I assume you mean have the kids in the audience,
Rather than preform, but child beauty pageants exist,
Wouldn't surprise me if child drag shows exist,
Though in any case I dislike it,
Treats kids more as objects, commodities,
Source of adults dreams and amusement,
Though it's 'possible I'm wrong, as I've never looked into the subject before.
Maybe I should view it more as enrolling one's kid in soccer,
But I currently don't.
. . .
Still whether audience or participant,
I think it's a disservice to the kid,
Though might be some parents would disagree, claim it raises the kid to be more accepting of trans,
Though I see that as a negative,
(Not that I'm saying we should hate trans)
. . .
There is/has been a lot of cross dressing in film/theater.
Also all the historical stuff in the link,
Which had various reasons,
Such as neccessity,
"Qing Dynasty, due to imperial prohibitions against women performing on stage, considered detrimental to public morality."
"In Renaissance England, women were forbidden from performing on stage,[4] so female roles in the plays of Shakespeare and his contemporary playwrights were originally played by cross-dressing men or boys."
Or practicality,
Kabuki, uses a lot of masks, so really how easy is it to tell someone's sex maybe?
Maybe they just preferred better actor regardless of sex of actor or sex of role.
Comedy,
"Cross-dressing in sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Spain was frequent among actors, and the theater was at the time the most popular form of entertainment. There was a fascination with female cross-dressers particularly (women dressed as men), who were "extremely popular" in the "Golden Age Comedia"
Monty Python,
Mrs. Doubtfire (1993)
White Chicks (2004)
. . .
Of course, through all this, it depends what you mean by 'Drag Show,
For a lot of people opposed,
When they say Drag Show,
They're talking about something sexually explicit or insinuating,
Same way some Gay Pride people might not like 90% naked individuals during a pride parade,
There are straight hookup bars and shows,
I'm pretty sure there are gay hook up bars and shows,
. . .
For the people not opposed,
Well, I imagine if they'd say no to taking your kid to a strip club,
Then a drag strip club is not what they have in mind,
For Drag Show definition.
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@YouFound_Lxam
It is pedophilia. Have you seen the videos?
I would have to see what you’re referring to. I’m not sure if a kid being exposed to barely clothed people is pedophillia. Otherwise, we couldn’t take our kid to the beach with hot girls in bikinis.
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@TheUnderdog
I would have to see what you’re referring to. I’m not sure if a kid being exposed to barely clothed people is pedophillia. Otherwise, we couldn’t take our kid to the beach with hot girls in bikinis.
Good point, but the difference is that these drag queens are telling the kids to "make it wet" and letting them touch parts of their body that are inappropriate. Also showing naked parts of their body, and calling it a snack.
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@YouFound_Lxam
If draw queens say to do that to kids, that is pedophillia. But I’m not sure what proportion of youth drag shows involve that.
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@TheUnderdog
100% of the ones he's researched.
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@Lemming
Monty Python,Mrs. Doubtfire (1993)White Chicks (2004)
You bring up some interesting context! Yes, there is a definite difference between “men in drag” and present day “drag queens.” The former involves men dressing as “plain Jane” women for comedic effect. The latter involves over the top efforts toward glamour and feminine sexuality, entailing flamboyant skin tight costumes, exaggerated versions of the female form, long eyelashes, heavy face and eye makeup, large hair, and sexual movements, voice affects and innuendo. To sum up, I would take young children to see “Mrs. Doubtfire” but not “Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.”
No one would dare promote a “pornstar story hour” to children, but because men seeking to be women are labeled an oppressed and victimized group, many misguided people feel as though they have to vouch for drag queen shows and story hours as not just harmless but beneficial to children.
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@TheUnderdog
But I’m not sure what proportion of youth drag shows involve that.
Do you think it is okay, for little girls to do sexual dances in front of adults, with barely any clothes on?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Please familiarize yourself with what a straw man is. You're never going to get off the freshman debate team this way.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Do you think it is okay, for little girls to do sexual dances in front of adults, with barely any clothes on?
No, but I’m unsure of what proportion of drag shows this falls under.
How about this: Every drag show that lets children attend needs to hire police officers to make sure no pedophillia happens to children.
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@TheUnderdog
How about this: Every drag show that lets children attend needs to hire police officers to make sure no pedophillia happens to children.
That is a great idea.
I am in full support of that.
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@YouFound_Lxam
It sounds good in theory but will just lead to the police meeting cancel culture that already hates them.
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@RationalMadman
The cops are used to it. Otherwise they would have quit. My city’s high school is majority minority and we respect our police.
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@TheUnderdog
No, cops are not used to it, they insulate themselves from it by sticking together in their supportive bubble and tjeir union. They hate and feel violated by the abuse they receive.
It is possible in 2034 that nobody wants to be a cop at all considering how they get treated.
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@RationalMadman
There are plenty of groups that get a lot of hate from people (cops, transwomen athletes, Muslim Americans). This doesn’t lead to cops not being cops, transwomen athletes quitting their sports, or Muslim Americans converting to Christianity.
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@TheUnderdog
Most muslims were born into the religion, most trans athletes feel they cannot escape veing it. Being a cop is a totally optional thing to the person becoming it, very few say it is their one and only true calling so no, those are not directly comparable.
That said, transgenders and Muslims actually directly increased with those opting in, the less that they got hated on. So even though it was a failed comparison, I think you forgot the hate to them has gone down, not up.
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@RationalMadman
Most muslims were born into the religion
It doesn’t matter; they could convert to Christianity if they want too. The trans women athletes could decide to play with the guys.
So even though it was a failed comparison, I think you forgot the hate to them has gone down, not up.
When trans people and Muslims had high levels of “hate” (I don’t think misgendering is hateful. I think beating up a trans person is hateful, but there is a huge difference between beating someone up and calling Caitlyn Jenner a man that the mainstream media and academia doesn’t think is the case), they still didn’t religiously assimilate or become cis presenting.
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@TheUnderdog
It’s not pedophilia, it’s just fucking weird. I think the root of what’s causing people to clash over this isn’t the issue itself but what it represents. Someone taking their kid to a drag show almost certainly doesn’t hurt them in the long run. What people are really butting heads over is differences in child rearing norms, of which any specific decision (like taking a kid to a drag show or putting weird books in the library) is minor but thousands of these decisions add up to a lot.
It’s underreported Red America and Blue America are increasingly becoming culturally separated on issues of childrearing above almost anything else. I’m not too fussed about this sort of thing because it’s not my business but there’s no way in a million years I would take my kid to a drag show, teach him about/teach him to believe in transgenderism at an early age, encourage him to read some of the weird semi pornographic books that have been found in some school libraries…the differences in culture between a family that does stuff like that and someone like me is so vast that we can’t in any reasonable terms be considered the same people or culture, but we have to inhabit the same physical space and use many of the same resources. It’s not a great situation and it comes out in inane arguments about this sort of thing. Hopefully we can all learn to be a little more live and let live
Drag shows ARE explicitly sexual but it’s in a cartoonish way that probably isn’t harmful enough to children to justify the state overruling the parents decision. It’s not really pedophilic…however that being said, a pedophile would absolutely 100% support children going to drag shows and would stick their neck out to defend the practice