How to explain real Christianity, to non-belivers.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

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@YouFound_Lxam
I know the Bible isn't corrupt, because there are no contradictions in the Bible.
Right, but it's the same book that the people who, according to you, followed the corrupt version, right? It hasn't been materially revised. I'm just asking for one of two specific answers: Why were they wrong? or Why are you right?

The different denominations of Christianity are not wrong. The different denominations are there to represent the different ways people express Gods word and how they interoperate the Bible. 
But, this isn't what you're saying earlier: some Christians thought they were being good Christians by following the bible, and you say they weren't, that they were following a corrupt version of Christianity, informed by apparently incorrect interpretations of the bible. All I'm asking is what steps are you taking to ensure you're not following a corrupt version, since you ("good Christian") and they ("bad Christians") share the exact same level of certitude in your conviction. I figure there must be a distinguishing factor between the two. 


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@ludofl3x
Right, but it's the same book that the people who, according to you, followed the corrupt version, right? It hasn't been materially revised. I'm just asking for one of two specific answers: Why were they wrong? or Why are you right?
They twisted the bible. Martin Luther, read the bible, realized that what the church was preaching was against the bible, so he rewrote it and showed everyone, showing the corruption in the church. The bible wasn't revised, the teachings were. 

But, this isn't what you're saying earlier: some Christians thought they were being good Christians by following the bible, and you say they weren't, that they were following a corrupt version of Christianity, informed by apparently incorrect interpretations of the bible. 
Yes, some people misinterpret the bible to try to disprove it. As long as you have the basic belief of Christianity, it doesn't matter the little minute details that you choose to believe, as long as it lines up with the main truth. 

 All I'm asking is what steps are you taking to ensure you're not following a corrupt version, since you ("good Christian") and they ("bad Christians") share the exact same level of certitude in your conviction. I figure there must be a distinguishing factor between the two. 
Following Gods word, and lining it up to basic morality. 
There is no corrupt version of the bible. Just corrupt teachings of it. 
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 Martin Luther, read the bible, realized that what the church was preaching was against the bible,
Ok, so how do you know he was right?

As long as you have the basic belief of Christianity, it doesn't matter the little minute details that you choose to believe, as long as it lines up with the main truth. 
THen why did Martin Luther have to take such drastic steps? And how do you know where the "minute detail" line is vis a vis eternal punishment or reward? Bible's got a ton of rules in it, like do you still go to hell for working on Sunday?

Following Gods word, and lining it up to basic morality. 
Okay, I'm confused again. Is god's word morality? If so, then you don't line up basic morality to anything at all, it's just god's word, full stop, no? It sounds like you're saying "I look at 'basic morality' and say 'that's probably what god meant,'" and not "This is what god said, and therefore it's moral, and I have to follow that."
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@YouFound_Lxam
Jesus was both fully God and fully human
One cannot be fully human and fully God when the nature of god is defined as infinite, perfect and human nature is finite, flawed. Suffice to say, one cannot be infinite and finite or perfect and imperfect at the same time. That is a logical impossibility.
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@ludofl3x
Ok, so how do you know he was right?
....because when he read the bible, and saw that it didn't line up with what the preachers were preaching, then he called them out. 

THen why did Martin Luther have to take such drastic steps? And how do you know where the "minute detail" line is vis a vis eternal punishment or reward? Bible's got a ton of rules in it, like do you still go to hell for working on Sunday?
Martin Luther called out the church teaching drastic changes to the bible, not little minute details. 
Also I would recommend reading the bible before making assumptions like that. 

Bible does have rules, but following rules does not decide weather you are a Christian or not. Christians work by faith. Our belief is not based on works or actions.

Okay, I'm confused again. Is god's word morality? If so, then you don't line up basic morality to anything at all, it's just god's word, full stop, no? It sounds like you're saying "I look at 'basic morality' and say 'that's probably what god meant,'" and not "This is what god said, and therefore it's moral, and I have to follow that."
You were the one who asked how I determine my faith. God is morality. He created morality. I am just making sure his word aligns with what he created, to base my faith on. 
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@SkepticalOne
One cannot be fully human and fully God when the nature of god is defined as infinite, perfect and human nature is finite, flawed. Suffice to say, one cannot be infinite and finite or perfect and imperfect at the same time. That is a logical impossibility.
Well, God exists outside everything that is logically possible, so to cage God in a box of logically possible is a contradiction in of itself. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Like I said, ask God.
I was a Christian for many decades. One of the reasons I deconverted had to do with 'answers from God'. Our church was trying to decide what to do with our school. Church members felt God was guiding them, but our answers didn't match. 

"Ask God" doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. I no longer confuse my inner monologue as a dialogue.

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@SkepticalOne
I was a Christian for many decades. One of the reasons I deconverted had to do with 'answers from God'. Our church was trying to decide what to do with our school. Church members felt God was guiding them, but our answers didn't match. 

"Ask God" doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. I no longer confuse my inner monologue as a dialogue.

Sadly this is the case with many Ex-Christians. 
They don't see Gods full plan, because they don't have the faith to trust him. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Well, God exists outside everything that is logically possible
If logic is not applicable to God, then he is illogical. 
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@SkepticalOne
If logic is not applicable to God, then he is illogical. 
God is not defined by logic. He created logic, but he is not imprisoned by it. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Sadly this is the case with many Ex-Christians. They don't see Gods full plan, because they don't have the faith to trust him. 
I get the feeling you didn't read the entire post because "God's full plan" shouldn't include giving contradictory answers.
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@SkepticalOne
I get the feeling you didn't read the entire post because "God's full plan" shouldn't include giving contradictory answers.
It's not contradictory. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ok, so how do you know he was right?
....because when he read the bible, and saw that it didn't line up with what the preachers were preaching, then he called them out. 
Yes, you mentioned this, which is why I asked the question, which your response doesn't answer. How do you know what HE saw in the bible was right? You already said there's a lot of different interpretations of the bible (all those denominations, for one), but not all of them (perhaps most of them) are wrong and potentially dangerous, corrupt. So what makes someone sure that Martin Luther was right? If he was, wouldn't there only be, arguably, Catholicism and LUTHERANISM? That there isn't means that others see what Martin Luther did or said and decided "That's not quite right, I mean it's closer, but not quite. I'll start a denomination that solves this, then I'll be right." I ask again, what makes you sure that interpretation is right and not corrupt?

Also I would recommend reading the bible before making assumptions like that. 
That the bible is replete with rules is not an assumption, and I've read it. My question on the minute details isn't about Martin Luther though, you said the minute details don't really matter:

 it doesn't matter the little minute details that you choose to believe, as long as it lines up with the main truth. 

My question here is where does the line go from 'little detail' to 'major problem,' like if you don't follow say 3 of the 10 commandments, is that too many? How do you know it doesn't matter, is my question. Some versions of Christianity don't think anything you do at all matters, and you're either in or out of heaven when you're born, predetermined. Why are they wrong?

 Our belief is not based on works or actions.
So you're not a big believer in "by your fruits shall ye be known?" Is that me interpreting it wrong?
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@YouFound_Lxam
It's not contradictory. 
Again, I don't think you read the post you were replying to. My anecdote referenced contradictory "answers from God".  Some church members felt the school should go. Some felt the school should stay. Both sides felt God was guiding them. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Humans make mistakes. This was a corrupt version of Christianity, that wasn't imbedded in truth, rather greed. It does not speak for all Christians.
The religion is still responsible for it.

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@ludofl3x
Yes, you mentioned this, which is why I asked the question, which your response doesn't answer. How do you know what HE saw in the bible was right?
Because he saw the bible...…..that's like asking how do you know the bible is right. It has no contradictions to it. 
Martin Luther looked at a book with no contradictions to its teaching, and called out the contradictions to that book from the church and exposed them. 

 You already said there's a lot of different interpretations of the bible (all those denominations, for one), but not all of them (perhaps most of them) are wrong and potentially dangerous, corrupt.
If an interpretation to the Bible is dangerous and corrupt it is not an interpretation, rather, it is a false doctrine. The different interpretations that are different, from other believers that still line up with the bible, are perfectly fine. 

That the bible is replete with rules is not an assumption, and I've read it. My question on the minute details isn't about Martin Luther though, you said the minute details don't really matter:
No I said minute details, that don't contradict the bible don't matter. 

My question here is where does the line go from 'little detail' to 'major problem,'
Contradiction or defiance of Gods word is what causes the problem.

like if you don't follow say 3 of the 10 commandments, is that too many? How do you know it doesn't matter, is my question. Some versions of Christianity don't think anything you do at all matters, and you're either in or out of heaven when you're born, predetermined. Why are they wrong?
What are you talking about? There are no different versions of Christianity, only one. The only differences between the denominations, is that they have differences between little minute details that don't contradict or go against Gods word. If there is someone who is claiming that they are Christian, and they say," don't think anything you do at all matters, and you're either in or out of heaven when you're born, predetermined." then they are not Christians. 

So you're not a big believer in "by your fruits shall ye be known?" Is that me interpreting it wrong?
Could I get the verse of that by chance? I need context for it. 
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@SkepticalOne
Again, I don't think you read the post you were replying to. My anecdote referenced contradictory "answers from God".  Some church members felt the school should go. Some felt the school should stay. Both sides felt God was guiding them. 
Ok, so?
How does this disprove God?
Some might of been lying, have you ever thought of that?
Some might have just been very prideful, and didn't want to let the others think they were wrong, thus using God as an excuse. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
The religion is still responsible for it.
I wouldn't consider them at that time part of the religion, because they didn't believe the full truth, and were imbedded in mans greed and corruption. So no the religion isn't responsible for it, man is responsible for it. 


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@YouFound_Lxam
Martin Luther looked at a book with no contradictions to its teaching, and called out the contradictions to that book from the church and exposed them. 
Yes, but how do you know what he was 'calling out' was correct? And if it was correct, why are there post-Luther denominations and disagreements (Calvin, for example) in the same religion?

The different interpretations that are different, from other believers that still line up with the bible, are perfectly fine. 
How do you determine if the interpretation of the believers lines up with the bible, and more to the point, these believers all believe the same thing about you: they're right and YOU'RE wrong. What is the disconnect here?
No I said minute details, that don't contradict the bible don't matter. 
Can you give me an example of one that doesn't matter, as opposed to one that does? I presume there's a difference. 

Contradiction or defiance of Gods word is what causes the problem.

Well, so say you, but others have exactly the same faith that they're right. Some of them aren't even Christians. How can we sort this out?

 If there is someone who is claiming that they are Christian, and they say," don't think anything you do at all matters, and you're either in or out of heaven when you're born, predetermined." then they are not Christians. 
Actually they're Calvinists. And plenty of new evangelical Christians subscribe to the "once saved always saved" philosophy, that says once you've accepted Jesus into your heart you're going to heaven, doesn't matter if you decide to take the lord's name in vain after that. Soooooo...who's right and how do I know?

There are no different versions of Christianity, only one. The only differences between the denominations, is that they have differences between little minute details that don't contradict or go against Gods word.
Ok, so there's no differences between the DIFFERENT denominations I guess. Well, then what do you think these denominations are meant to accomplish? BEcause I know Christians personally who will tell you that Catholics are wrong and are at grave risk for eternal peril because of it. If it doesn't matter, then why do people go to churches at all?

Could I get the verse of that by chance? I need context for it. 
Matthew 7:16-20. It's part of the sermon on the mount, and is often interpreted as "you will be known as a Christian because of the things you do and say." BEfore you tell me that's incorrect interpretation, please provide substantiation to that end. As I recall, Martin Luther wasn't big on having the preisthood be the single authority on the word of god, and that regular people are able to read it and interpret it without that 'layer' between them and the almighty, so it should be pretty clear. 


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@Best.Korea
In my opinion, taking useful things from all religions is more beneficial than focusing on just one.

Which is exactly what Christianity has done.  Including pagan myths from Greece, Rome, Egypt, Summaria , Babylon, Uruk and ancient Palistine. To name few.
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@SkepticalOne
 After Jesus walked among sinners, wouldn't he have been tainted and barred from heaven as well?

Well if church dogma is to be given any credence, then Jesus was as tainted and as sinful as those he walked among. His mother was very human after all, riddled with the  inherited sin.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ok, so?
How does this disprove God?
Not trying to convert you, just enlightening you on what it means to be a Christian from this apostate.

Some might of been lying, have you ever thought of that?
Some might have just been very prideful, and didn't want to let the others think they were wrong, thus using God as an excuse. 

It is interesting your first reaction is to doubt the morality of Christians...

Deception or malicious intent aren't likely, imo.  It was simply well-meaning people looking for magical answers (me included). I happen to think people are prone to misinterpret their personal desires with the 'will of god'. This explains why there are so many denominations and god-concepts. People aren't lying - they are misinformed.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I wouldn't consider them at that time part of the religion, because they didn't believe the full truth, and were imbedded in mans greed and corruption. So no the religion isn't responsible for it, man is responsible for it. 

Christianity has a history of violence that still carries over to today. Your religion is violent whether you like it or not.
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Here is how I explain it.


They ask. What is Christianity.

I say

"We worship a kike on a pike" 


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@YouFound_Lxam
They twisted the bible. Martin Luther, read the bible, realized that what the church was preaching was against the bible, so he rewrote it and showed everyone, showing the corruption in the church. The bible wasn't revised, the teachings were. #32

The bible wasn't "revised" - "so he rewrote it [the bible]"!?



But I don't know for sure. I'll have to ask God when I get to heaven. 

So you don't speak to god  yourself then and he doesn't answer you?

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@Stephen
The bible wasn't "revised" - "so he rewrote it [the bible]"!?
He rewrote the bible in a different language, so that everyone could understand it, and read it for themselves. He simply changed the language, not the teachings or any scripture.


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@YouFound_Lxam
Well.

Jonah and the Whale, Noah's Ark and the biblical flood are not true accounts per se.

But could be exaggerated reinterpretations of localised events.

Which is exactly what the bible amounts to. A mixture of fact and fiction based around a human centred creation hypothesis, social ideology and regional politics. 

And add a bit of fantasy to the mix.

The idea of humanesque GOD/S was around long before the Christian re-invention.
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@YouFound_Lxam
They twisted the bible. Martin Luther, read the bible, realized that what the church was preaching was against the bible, so he rewrote it and showed everyone, showing the corruption in the church. The bible wasn't revised, the teachings were. #32

The bible wasn't "revised" - "so he rewrote it [the bible]"!?

He rewrote the bible in a different language, so that everyone could understand it, and read it for themselves. He simply changed the language, not the teachings or any scripture.

German!?
Considering that your first language is English, what bible do you accept as an accurate and literal account of the life and times of Jesus? 

Why don't you start by "explaining"  to me why god created anything in the first place?  

Though I assume it is because God was lonely before he created us and wanted/desired love.

So it wasn't enough that he ruled over his own perfect and vast heavenly paradise or his hoards of heavenly angels for company?


The only way to have true love, is by someone making that choice to love you.

So the love of his heavenly hoards of angels wasn't enough for him?