Biden caught hiding classified documents for six years!!! LOL!!! Hypocrites R Us = Dems
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Alas that TWS is too dim-witted to appreciate the difference between law-abiding officials who immediately follow established protocols and criminal spies who hide what they stole from the government for years, lie for years about what they have and how important what they stole was and then repeatedly deny they are subject to same justice system as ordinary Americans, who they despise.
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@oromagi
Alas that dim-witted origami and his asinine childish false equivalency fallacies and other nonsensical drivel espoused in that garbage banal retort. LOL!!
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@oromagi
Question:
So, when there is evidence that Trump might have some unclassified documents at his home, they raid his home, but when there have been multiple cases of unclassified documents at Bidens home, and other things like that, then they don't raid his home?
You know what that's called right?
Corruption.
All this means is that Merrick Garland won't be able to push for a criminal investigation into Mar-a-Lago.
The Orangeman escapes yet again somehow.
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@TWS1405_2
There 'is a difference between accidentally forgetting documents, then returning them as soon as they are found.
And intentionally removing documents, and refusing to return them when asked by the government.
Though sure,
Not a great look for Biden,
It doesn't equal with Trump situation, for me.
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@Lemming
Accidentally forgetting documents? Please…
He was VP and didn’t even have the authority to take those documents, and yet he knowingly did and had the foresight to secure them behind lock and key. Accidentally my ass!!!
The POTUS has unilateral authority to declassify documents, as affirmed by a federal judge during a previous administration.
It’s plausible those documents he knowingly took had a lot to do with his and Hunter’s dealings abroad.
This is pure corruption on the part of the Biden’s. Business as usual.
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@TWS1405_2
There are more classified documents than,
For the presidents eyes only, documents.
I've not head anyone say 'what the documents speak of,
You yourself say 'plausible, indicating that you don't 'know what the documents speak of either, only that they are classified.
I'm 'pretty sure a president has to do more than 'think declassified, after being held accountable for refusing to return documents when asked.
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@Lemming
“We found broad agreement that a president, using powers granted by the Constitution, is able to declassify essentially anything. ”
“Yes, the president can declassify documents while in office, but there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow.”
“1988 Supreme Court of The United States’ majority ruling in a case between the Department of Navy vs. Egan. The case addressed the legal recourse of a U.S. Navy employee who had been denied a security clearance.
An excerpt from the Supreme Court’s ruling in that case reads thus, “The President, after all, is the ‘Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.’ U.S. Const., Art. II, 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security and to determine whether an individual is sufficiently trustworthy to occupy a position in the Executive Branch that will give that person access to such information flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the president and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant.”
The president’s power to classify and declassify documents is so broad and absolute that even The United States Congress can not make laws to limit it, according to Robert F. Turner, associate director of the University of Virginia’s Center for National Security Law. ”
An excerpt from the Supreme Court’s ruling in that case reads thus, “The President, after all, is the ‘Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.’ U.S. Const., Art. II, 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security and to determine whether an individual is sufficiently trustworthy to occupy a position in the Executive Branch that will give that person access to such information flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the president and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant.”
The president’s power to classify and declassify documents is so broad and absolute that even The United States Congress can not make laws to limit it, according to Robert F. Turner, associate director of the University of Virginia’s Center for National Security Law. ”
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@TWS1405_2
"Two caveats"
If a document is declassified, that doesn’t automatically mean it can be shared widely, either. For example, nuclear information – which is generally classified – is also protected by the federal Atomic Energy Act of 1954, McClanahan explained.
The Washington Post reported the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago for “nuclear documents,” among other classified information.
“Because [nuclear information] has this dual protection, even if you declassify a nuclear document, you cannot disseminate it because it’s still what’s called Restricted Data,” McClanahan said.
“So to the extent that he [Trump] had any nuclear information in there, declassification would not help him in the slightest, because he would still be disseminating restricted data or moving Restricted Data,” he added.
"However, Dunn said a president’s power over confidential documents ends as soon as he leaves office."
Your own sources (Shrug)
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@YouFound_Lxam
@TWS1405_2
This is yet another example of the political right fighting tooth and nail to pretend two extremely different things are the same.
Let’s run through some basic differences.
The documents Trump possessed were discovered missing by NARA, who then sought them out by asking and then subpoenaing them from him. Trump lied claiming he didn’t have them until the search warrant was executed. The search found hundreds of classified documents in a golf club, including top secret documents containing nuclear secrets.
The documents Biden possessed were not sought out by NARA, in fact they didn’t even know they were missing (which strongly suggests these were low level classifications). Once Biden’s attorneys found them they immediately returned them, which turned out to be about a dozen documents.
So just to recap the basics
- Trump defied a lawful subpoena for their return, Biden didn’t
- Trump lied to federal authorities, Biden didn’t
- Biden had a dozen or so documents, Trump had over a hundred
- Trump had top secret documents, Biden’s we’re not even noticed as missing
And to address a few other right wing talking points;
Mar-a-Lago was searched because the FBI was able to show proof to a federal judge that Trump was in possession of the documents Trump claimed he didn’t have as well as where they were. If they had such evidence on Biden we would see the same. But no such evidence is needed because Biden is actually cooperating.
Trump did not declassify anything, if he did the government would know about that.
These are not the same thing. not even close. This really isn’t complicated.
The documents Trump possessed were discovered missing by NARA, who then sought them out by asking and then subpoenaing them from him. Trump lied claiming he didn’t have them until the search warrant was executed. The search found hundreds of classified documents in a golf club, including top secret documents containing nuclear secrets.
Really?
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@Lemming
Your shrug is meaningless.
What you cut n pasted where nothing short of “what ifs,” they were not factual.
Reading comprehension matters.
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@Double_R
At its core it’s the exact same thing. A VP taking “classified” documents home. A president who criticized a former president for being irresponsible with classified documents (the nature of the documents are irrelevant, it’s the core issue of handling said documents that’s the issue being raised/discussed here)!! A Secretary of State (Clinton) did worse. She got a slap on the wrist. The documents were always available to the NARA and FBI. They only had to ask. That’s all. It was a witch hunt, again. Hypocrisy in action.
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@TWS1405_2
At its core it’s the exact same thing.
If you ignore all the differences, what remains will look the same.
This is the strategy that wins republicans elections, because clearly their voters aren’t concerned about reality.
Whether we’re talking about basic morality or the law, the most important element that separates right from wrong or legal from illegal, is intent. This isn’t some insignificant consideration, it’s that makes the difference in nearly any circumstance.
I lose a $20 bill, then find $20 on the floor where I was previously standing so I put it in my pocket, but it turns out to be yours.
I watch $20 fall out of your pocket, then come up from behind you and put it in my pocket.
Both actions and effects of said actions are exactly the same. But one is neither illegal nor immoral, the other is downright theft and just plain wrong.
So let’s apply this basic common sense to the dispute at hand.
The documents Trump held were transported to Mar-A-Lago in boxes. There’s no chance no one knew what they were or how they ended up there. Meanwhile we don’t know how the documents Biden held got there, but being that it was less than a dozen it is very reasonable to presume that may have been an oversight.
Trump blew off the FBI’s subpoenas and then lied to them telling them he didn’t have them. He even tried to hide them in his basement. Meanwhile Biden’s attorneys turned them over without even being asked.
Trump continues to claim the FBI “raided his home” knowing full well they had every right and obligation to do what they did. Biden has been nothing but cooperative and supportive of every attempt to handle the situation in accordance with the law.
If Trump’s lawyers found more classified documents tomorrow we have every reason to believe they would burn them. Meanwhile we not only have no reason to believe that of Biden, his attorneys are proving the exact opposite.
These two men are not the same. These two scenarios are not the same. To pretend they are is to ignore the most basic reason and common sense. It is truly a case study in how partisanship warps people’s minds to the point it rewrites basic lessens we learned in kindergarten.
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@YouFound_Lxam
The documents Trump possessed were discovered missing by NARA, who then sought them out by asking and then subpoenaing them from him. Trump lied claiming he didn’t have them until the search warrant was executed. The search found hundreds of classified documents in a golf club, including top secret documents containing nuclear secrets.Really?
Concession noted. Glad we can now move on to real issues.
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@TWS1405_2
it’s the core issue of handling said documents that’s the issue being raised/discussed here
No, it’s not. If it were you would have something to say about US top secret nuclear documents being held in the basement of a gulf resort without the governments knowledge. You don’t give a damn about responsible handling of classified materials and you know it.
The documents were always available to the NARA and FBI. They only had to ask.
They did. He ignored them. They subpoenaed them, Trump blew them off. Not even Trump’s lawyers are disputing this, are you really that much of a partisan hack that you believe what you’re saying?
Trump even sued NARA and the FBI’s to stop them from reviewing the documents after they were taken, and then claimed they should give them back.
You can’t be serious.
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@Double_R
$20 bill analogy = ignorant denialism intellectual cowardice. Not to mention a false equivalency fallacy and red herring.
$20 bill analogy = ignorant denialism intellectual cowardice. Not to mention a false equivalency fallacy and red herring.
You are a liar. He wasn’t “hiding documents”
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@YouFound_Lxam
So, when there is evidence that Trump might have some unclassified documents at his home, they raid his home, but when there have been multiple cases of unclassified documents at Bidens home, and other things like that, then they don't raid his home?
You know what that's called right?Corruption.
Bullshit. Trump refused to give the documents back and had his lawyers lie for him.
Biden’s lawyers found the documents and turned them over to the archive officials.
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@TWS1405_2
Odd concept, catching someone for six years.
Must have been in real slow motion.
Even slower than sleepy Joe.
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@TWS1405_2
Reading comprehension matters.
So does moral integrity and neither you nor Trumpet have any.
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@TWS1405_2
$20 bill analogy = ignorant denialism intellectual cowardice. Not to mention a false equivalency fallacy and red herring.
Another enlightening post from DART’s most highly regarded intellectual.
If you are feeling cornered because you have no rebuttal you can just say that instead of desperately trying to project such fake superiority. No one is being fooled by this, you’re like the kid who puts one hand over his face while he uses the other to pick his nose. Like bro we can see what you’re doing.
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@Greyparrot
All this means is that Merrick Garland won't be able to push for a criminal investigation into Mar-a-Lago.The Orangeman escapes yet again somehow.
They can still prosecute Joe cause he was only VP. President has full classification authority at any time
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@Double_R
It’s a simple question really. Should the former VP be prosecuted for mishandling classified documents? Yes or No?
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@Greyparrot
@TWS1405_2
They can semantically weave their arguments as much as they want. Here are the facts:
The President can declassify any material at any point in time. The VP cannot.
The Penn Center was funded by 54 million from the Chinese, exactly where Biden’s documents were found. Biden has claimed he never mishandled documents, yet he has. Not only that, those document pertain to Iran and most importantly Ukraine.
You know what’s even worse? They knew about this a week before the midterms, but sat on it. If Merrick Garland had any shred of justice, he would immediately appoint a special counsel
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@ILikePie5
For some people, Biden can do no wrong. Those people deserve the kind of corrupt government we have today that exploits everyone not part of DC government.
My big takeaway is that the protocols around handling classified documents are probably very unclear and poorly enforced considering that each presidential nominee from both parties the past few cycles have had some kind of issue with this