Wow! What a very long list of outstanding things done by former POTUS Trump.
Woman destroys liberal anti-trump narrative in 1min & 38 seconds
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The whole argument rests on the rather foolish premise that dictators don't have accomplishments. Hitler, Stalin, Napolean, Caesar were all dictators but no historian would claim those four didn't accomplish quite a large number of objectives. WIthout any democratic checks and balances, dictators tend to have more accomplishments then law-abiding leaders. The anonymous TikTokker, the YouTuber and TWS all claim that if one can list Trump's accomplishment than the claim that Trump was authoritiarian stands disproved. If anything, the opposite is more true, never mind that most of the accomplishments listed aren't particularly admirable or pro-American or particularly products of Trump's work or ideology. We could argue the harms the 2017 Tax cuts inflicted on the economy or the harms of Trump's lazy capitutlation in Afghanistan and hand-off to an overburdened successor but the conclusion itself is obviously fallacious: Dictators can also list their accomplishments, a list of accomplishments does not argue against any leader's self-serving authoritarianism or manifest moral deficit.
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@oromagi
Definition of a dictator: A dictator is a political leader who possesses absolute power.
Where in that definition does it require an accomplishment to be a dictator?
Her argument was premised upon "what if" Trump used the DOJ and FBI to conduct raids on former president Obama's personal residence, to which he would have certainly been castigated and labeled [a] "dictator" for doing it. She then asks what such qualifications made Trump a dictator, as he was called, despite not being one, and she noted things he achieved asking if those qualified him as a dictator like much of what the current administration does and continues to do would push them ever closer to that definition.
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@oromagi
Definition of a Dictator: "a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force."
Trump wasn't a dictator, and he had all of those accomplishments.
I think that most democrats don't like Trump, because he said things no one else was willing to say. And he did things that no one else was willing to do. He led a powerful presidency, not powerful as in a dictator, but powerful as in he was strong, and willing to do the things that others were afraid to do.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Well, he did make a Slovenian sex worker First Lady and he is the first President to be married 3 times, all Republican values.
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@FLRW
Well, he did make a Slovenian sex worker First Lady and he is the first President to be married 3 times, all Republican values.
So, one Republican makes a bad decision, and that makes it a Republican value?
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@FLRW
"...all Republican values.
Prove it!
Cite fact-based sources that specifically list being married 3 (or more time) and that Melania was ever a sex worker (she was born in Slovenia, the fallacious rumors mentioned Amsterdam where she was falsely accused of being a sex worker).
-->@oromagiDefinition of a dictator: A dictator is a political leader who possesses absolute power. Where in that definition does it require an accomplishment to be a dictator?
- my point exactly
She then asks what such qualifications made Trump a dictator, as he was called, despite not being one, and she noted things he achieved asking if those qualified him as a dictator like much of what the current administration does and continues to do would push them ever closer to that definition.
- exactly. The anonymous TikTokker says,
- "could someone remind me of literally anything trump did to be considered a dictator was it lowering taxes cutting regulations ending wars.... [list of accomplishment]"
- but a list of accomplishment neither proves nor disproves authoritarianism, does it? The premise of the argument is non sequitur.
- Could someone please remind me of literally anything Hitler did to be considered a dictator was it decreasing inflation, rebuilding the military, hosting the Olympics, building museums, reviving German heritage [list of accomplishments]. Obviously, the format of the argument does nothing to address whether a particularly leader was authoritarian. Anonymous TikTokker concludes,
- "i want to know i want you to show your anti-trump friends this and ask them what on earth trump did to be considered a dictator it's criminal how underreported his deeds were"
- Which YouTuber Officer Tatum summarizes as: "Woman DESTROYS "Dictator Trump" Narrative"
- and then you parrot as "Woman destroys liberal anti-trump narrative in 1min & 38 seconds"
- but none of you three discussed the Anti-Trump narrative and that narrative had nothing to do with the number of Trump's claimed accomplishments.
- Anonymous TikTokker asks the hypothetical"imagine if president trump would have sent the fbi to raid barack obama's personal residence just picture that for a moment they would have called him a dictator oh wait they called him that anyway"
- The answer to that question is that the hypothetical is insufficient, "what crimes is Obama being investigated for and what evidence exists that Obama committed those crimes?"
- The answer to the first essential consideration in Trump's case are that Trump is being investigated for violations of the Espionage Act regarding unauthorized retention of national defense information; destroying or concealing records "with the intent to impede obstruct or influence" federal government activity; and illegal removal or destruction of federal government records (without respect to cause).
- The answer to the second essential consideration is that the evidence is so fucking preponderant that the perp doesn't even deny doing those felonies some 400 times, he just falsely claims that ex-presidents are allowed to do those crimes and runs for President again to obstruct the Federal investigation.
- Now THERE is one good example of Trump's dictatorial tendencies: Trump claims that he is not subject to the same laws as you and me, that he a superior citizen to common Americans with special rights. THAT is thinking like a dictator.
The answer to Anonymous TikTokker's second question will engage American historians for centuries: what on earth trump did to be considered a dictator?
A few of the many, many, many reasons Donald Trump is considered authoritarian (calling him a Dictator would suggest that his coup attempt succeeded):
- He has advocated for violence against his opponents and the media.
- He has undermined the independence of the judiciary.
- He has disregarded the rule of law and encouraged lawlessness among his supporters.
- He has attacked the free press and freedom of speech.
- He has used his position to enrich himself and his family.
- He has undermined the peaceful transition of power.
- He has sought to interfere with elections.
- He has pursued baseless lawsuits to overturn the results of the election.
- He has sought to undermine the legitimacy of the election.
- He has promoted conspiracy theories and misinformation.
- He has undermined the independence of government agencies.
- He has rewarded loyalty over competence.
- He has disregarded science and expertise.
- He has undermined the legitimacy of international institutions.
- He has pursued an isolationist foreign policy.
- He has cozied up to authoritarian leaders and regimes.
- He has pursued policies that discriminate against marginalized groups.
- He has sought to use the power of the state to punish his enemies.
- He has encouraged his supporters to engage in hateful and divisive behavior.
- He has demonstrated a lack of respect for the norms and values of democracy.
- He has threatened to use military force against domestic protesters.
- He has sought to use his position to influence criminal investigations and prosecutions.
- He has advocated for torture and other forms of illegal interrogation.
- He has sought to undermine environmental regulations and protections.
- He has pursued policies that disproportionately benefit the wealthy and powerful.
- He has sought to undermine the Affordable Care Act and access to healthcare.
- He has taken steps to undermine the integrity of the census.
- He has sought to use the presidency for personal gain, including by promoting his own businesses.
- He has sought to limit access to information and transparency.
- He has pursued a policy of "zero tolerance" and separated families at the border, causing widespread suffering and trauma.
- He has repeatedly refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.
- He has sought to undermine the integrity of the postal system.
- He has engaged in mass deportations and targeted immigration enforcement.
- He has sought to limit the ability of people to vote and participate in elections.
- He has sought to undermine the right to protest and free assembly.
- He has sought to restrict access to information and suppress scientific research.
- He has sought to undermine the independence of the Federal Reserve and other economic institutions.
- He has pursued a policy of "maximum pressure" and imposed economic sanctions that have caused suffering for ordinary people.
- He has sought to undermine the autonomy of Native American tribes and their rights.
- He has demonstrated a lack of empathy and concern for the well-being of others, including during the COVID-19 pandemic.
MELANIA TRUMP SETTLES DEFAMATION SUIT against DAILY MAIL
First Lady Melania Trump on Wednesday reached a settlement with the Daily Mail in a defamation suit she filed after the tabloid ran a story examining whether she worked as a prostitute before meeting President Donald Trump.
TIM RYAN / April 12, 2017
WASHINGTON (CN) - First Lady Melania Trump on Wednesday reached a settlement with the Daily Mail in a defamation suit she filed after the tabloid ran a story examining whether she worked as a prostitute before meeting President Donald Trump.
CNN reported on Wednesday that Trump will receive $2.9 million as part of the settlement.
The lawsuits, which were filed in September, went after the Daily Mail's online edition and Webster Tarpley, a Maryland blogger who ran a story raising questions about Trump's past on his Tarpley.net blog. The articles claimed that rather than working as a model, the first lady was actually a "high end escort," according to the 10-page lawsuit originally filed in Montgomery County Circuit Court.
"We accept that these allegations about Mrs. Trump are not true and we retract and withdraw them," The Daily Mail said in a joint statement with Trump, according to the Washington Post. "We apologize to Mrs. Trump for any distress that our publication caused her. To settle Mrs. Trump's two lawsuits against us, we have agreed to pay her damages and costs."
Though the suits were originally filed in a state court just outside of Washington, DC, Trump eventually had to refile the case in New York, where the Daily Mail prints. The suit originally asked for $150 million in compensatory and punitive damages.
Trump reached a settlement with Tarpley in February.
Trump was represented by Charles Harder, who is known as the lawyer who won Hulk Hogan's case against Gawker after the company released a sex tape of the pro wrestler. The case ultimately resulted in Gawker filing for bankruptcy.
In a statement, Harder's law firm, Harder Mirell, said, "The First Lady Melania Trump is very pleased that she has resolved this matter favorably with the Daily Mail, which has issued a full and complete retraction and apology for its false statements about her, and agreed to pay her millions of dollars in damages and full reimbursement of her legal fees costs.
"Mrs. Trump will remain vigilant to protect her good name and reputation from those who make false and defamatory statements about her," the statement added.
Gish gallop, even focusing on a rebuttal on one would not be sufficient against a gish gallop, but I will point out a retarded one.
He has pursued policies that disproportionately benefit the wealthy and powerful.
That wouldn't make him an authoritarian, but think about the absurdity for a moment.
The rich and powerful media conspired to destroy him. Big tech conspired to destroy him, practically every billionaire on the planet has made him enemy number one, including Soros, warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos and the owner of the las Angela's Clippers
Yeah it really sounds like the wealthy are his friends
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@PREZ-HILTON
Gish gallop,
Hypocrite. TWS kicks off with an anonymous, totally unsubstantiated list of accomplishments followed by an anonymous request, "what on earth did Trump do to be considered a dictator?"
TWS is more guilty than I of gish gallop for having linked to a blast of arguments first but you hypocritically attack me while ignoring TWS's greater fault. Please apologize for your hypocritical bias and try harder to objectively fault logical fallacies in arguments, especially those that reinforce your (damn ignorant) biases.
I will point out a retarded one.He has pursued policies that disproportionately benefit the wealthy and powerful.That wouldn't make him an authoritarian
- Of course it would. Democratic leaders are required to represent the interests of all citizens equally. Public Policy that favors the rich empowers the already powerful richer minority at the expense of the poorer majority.
The rich and powerful media conspired to destroy him. Big tech conspired to destroy him, practically every billionaire on the planet has made him enemy number one, including Soros, warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos and the owner of the las Angela's Clippers
- But that's not an argument against the established fact that Trump pursued policies that disproportionately benefitted the wealthy and powerfu.
- That's like arguing that Caesar did not give special treatment to Senators because a bunch of Senators assasinated him. Both facts were true. Senators got super special treatment from the Dictator and a bunch of those Senators were determined to kill Caesar anyway.
- Let's take for example anonymous TikTokker's first Trump accomplishment, "lowering taxes"
- The non-partisan Tax Policy Center determined:
- Compared to current law, 5% of taxpayers would pay more in 2018, 9% in 2025, and 53% in 2027.
- The top 1% of taxpayers (income over $732,800) would receive 8% of the benefit in 2018, 25% in 2025, and 83% in 2027.
- The top 5% (income over $307,900) would receive 43% of the benefit in 2018, 47% in 2025, and 99% in 2027.
- The top 20% (income over $149,400) would receive 65% of the benefit in 2018, 66% in 2025 and all of the benefit in 2027.
- The bottom 80% (income under $149,400) would receive 35% of the benefit in 2018, 34% in 2025 and none of the benefit in 2027, with some groups incurring costs.
- The third quintile (taxpayers in the 40th to 60th percentile with income between $48,600 and $86,100, a proxy for the "middle class") would receive 11% of the benefit in 2018 and 2025, but would incur a net cost in 2027.
- That is, in the long term, 99% of Trump "tax cut" is reserved for the richest 5% of Americans and taxes on the American Middle Class will actually increase to pay for those rich people smaller tax burden.
- Objectively, what Trump called a tax cut is in fact stealing from the middle class to pay the rich.
- The CBO forecast that inequality would worsen between 2016 and 2021, due to the Trump tax cuts and policies regarding means-tested transfers. Their report had several conclusions:
- After taxes and transfers, the income of the top 1% would grow more than other income groups, continuing previous trends.
- Income of households in the bottom 99% percent would be higher than at any time in the past, adjusted for inflation, also continuing previous trends.
- The Gini index would rise, indicating slowed reduction of inequality, reversing a trend from the latter part of the Obama administration.Means-tested transfer programs would contribute less to reducing inequality in 2021 than they did in 2016
- According to the CBO businesses receive a $890 billion benefit or 63%, individuals $441 billion or 31%, and estates $83 billion or 6%. U.S. corporations would likely use the extra after-tax income to repurchase shares or pay more dividends, which mainly flow to wealthy investors. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), "Mainstream estimates conclude that more than one-third of the benefit of corporate rate cuts flows to the top 1% of Americans, and 70% flows to the top fifth.
- According to the Tax Policy Center, the bill's effect on the financial well-being of taxpayers vary based on different financing assumptions, but approximately 72% of taxpayers would be worse off after Trump "tax cut", meaning benefits from tax cuts would be more than offset by reduced spending on their behalf
Maybe Trump cut anonymous TikTokker's taxes but he didn't cut yours and he didn't cut mine- he raised our taxes and gave it to the rich and famous people he considers more worthy Americans.
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@oromagi
Maybe Trump cut anonymous TikTokker's taxes but he didn't cut yours and he didn't cut mine- he raised our taxes and gave it to rich celebrities he most admires.
I don't pay federal taxes to be honest. I always put tax exempt. It hasn't bit me in the ass yet, but I assume it will at some point.
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@PREZ-HILTON
I don't pay federal taxes to be honest. I always put tax exempt. It hasn't bit me in the ass yet, but I assume it will at some point.
- I've never met a Republican who didn't cheat on his taxes.
- Next time you want to bitch about Democrats, remember that by paying my fair share of taxes, I'm picking up your tab- I pay your way.
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@oromagi
"totally unsubstantiated list of accomplishments"
LOL! There's that TDS coming through.
None of the things she said Trump did is "unsubstantiated."
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@oromagi
By following the law, Democrats are the ones holding this country together and paying everybody's fair due.
BWAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAAAA!!!!!!
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@oromagi
I've never met a Republican who didn't cheat on his taxes. By following the law, Democrats are the ones holding this country together and paying everybody's fair due
I don't believe in a lot of those social programs. It doesn't help me escape local taxes that go to roads law enforcement etc. I don't agree with America's foreign policy and I give to charities that actually help the poor.
To be fair my former father in law if you want to call him that is a republican and he would list his Chihuahua as a guard dog and use his dog food as a tax write off for his business
If you want to see some great nude pictures of Melania, see https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/melania-trumps-nude-modelling-pictures-surface/news-story/996db14433896119b1c2f9fe09fd20c9
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@TWS1405_2
None of the things she said Trump did is "unsubstantiated."
- Bullshit, I just unsubstantiated the first item on her list.
- Obviously, any policy that makes the world harder for the poorest 72% fails to meet the standard of an "accomplishment" in any public policy terms. Yes, Trump "accomplished" one of many assaults on the American middle class but that not an "accomplishment" that any historian will admire or that disproves Trump's authoritarian ambitions.
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@FLRW
If you want to see some great nude pictures of Melania, see https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/melania-trumps-nude-modelling-pictures-surface/news-story/996db14433896119b1c2f9fe09fd20c9
- Are you arguing that anybody photographed nude is "sex worker"? because I'm not buying that.
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@oromagi
Sex workers are adults who receive money or goods in exchange for consensual sexual services OR erotic performances, either regularly or occasionally.
You have to accept the more broad definition of sex worker.
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@FLRW
OK, so here's Christian Yelich posing nude for Sports Illustrated in 2019.
Is it fair to call Yelich a "sex worker." Would you be willing to say that to Yelich's face?
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@oromagi
I would like to debate you on whether Trump was a dictator. Since it is your claim. I will be the contender, you the instigator (you'll have to set it up so it works out this way)
On Balance: President Donald J. Trump Was A Dictator
PRO shall Only Argue That Former President Donald J. Trump WAS A Dictator While President Of The United States Of America
CON shall Only Argue That Former President Donald J. Trump WAS NOT A Dictator While President Of The United States Of America
All definitions will come from Merriam Websters online dictionary.
Specific definitions for debate:
DICTATOR: a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force
RULES:
1. Burden of Proof is shared.
2. No Ignoratio Elenchis.
3. No trolls.
4. Forfeiting one round = auto-loss.
Debate set up:
10k characters
One week for arguments
One week voting period
You're instigator AND PRO
I'm contender AND CON
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@Public-Choice
-->@oromagiI would like to debate you on whether Trump was a dictator. Since it is your claim. I will be the contender, you the instigator (you'll have to set it up so it works out this way)
POST #8: "A few of the many, many, many reasons Donald Trump is considered authoritarian (calling him a Dictator would suggest that his coup attempt succeeded):"
POST #3 : "A dictator is a political leader who possesses absolute power. "
- It would not be accurate to say that Trump possessed absolute power
- Based on Trump's oft-stated polticial opinions, admiration for the dictatorial powers of other leaders, refusal to abdicate power at the moment the US Constitution demanded, etc. it would be acurrate to say that Trump's leadership style was authoritarian and/or his political ambition was authoritarian in intent
A Dictator has to be competant enough to assume absolute power, Trump is not that.
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@oromagi
So then you agree Trump was not a dictator
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@Public-Choice
So then you agree Trump was not a dictator
Yes. No Liberals claim that Trump was a dictator, that is anonymous TikTokker's straw man/shorthand.
Trump might qualify for wannabe dictator or a failed aspirant to dictatorial powers.
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@oromagi
Trump might qualify for wannabe dictator or a failed aspirant to dictatorial powers.
I don't think he would. But debating armchair psychology is difficult when it's something like "aspirant to dictatorial powers."
IMHO aspirant dictators don't reduce regulations, cut taxes, hold billionaires accountable, deregulate and boost the private sector economy, cut the size of government, and then step down after losing election.
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@Public-Choice
IMHO aspirant dictators don't reduce regulations, cut taxes, hold billionaires accountable, deregulate and boost the private sector economy, cut the size of government, and then step down after losing election.
- Trump didn't "step down after losing election" Trump refuses to this day to accept the reality that he lost.
- Other than that, actual dictators have done all those things. It's not what you do with power that makes you a dictator, it is how you refuse to share power with others that makes you a dictator.
Now- we should all be able to agree that, in spite of the pandemic, Biden accomplished more in his first two years than Trump accomplished in four.
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@oromagi
Trump didn't "step down after losing election" Trump refuses to this day to accept the reality that he lost.
Is Trump still the President?
Other than that, actual dictators have done all those things.
Name one dictator that did ALL of those things.