- Every time I come back to this Forum the schism Republicans/Democrats gets more polarized, almost to the point of civil war. The States are increasingly becoming different countries & history is repeating itself. – If push comes to shove, would you, as a Republican or Democrat, prefer a civil war where winner takes all or a one country two-systems solution? Would you want a legally pluralist US where each municipality or state (or confederate of states) has its own constitution & legal system?
Pluralism Or Civil War?
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@Yassine
People don't live and identify with their states as countries so much anymore, that I know of.
I suppose some states have a significant more of one party or another,
But states seem a mixed 'enough bag, to me.
Far cry from era right before and during American Civil War, seems to me,
I think Civil War fears of current situation, is excessive.
. . .
I'd rather people make their own laws to a degree,
As individuals, city, county, state,
But there's 'still values and actions I'd rather we 'not give people the right to act however they like.
So still a fair number of national laws.
Still I don't think people are going to isolate too much.
Some people do,
Mormons, Amish, Libertarian Free State Project.
You are a muslim. You have wishful thinking. You want for west to collapse.
- Every time I come back to this Forum the schism Republicans/Democrats gets more polarized,
- Infantilized is the word I think you are looking for. Most of the regulars are gone and the average age on this site has dropped twenty years over the past 12 months.
The States are increasingly becoming different countries & history is repeating itself. –
- False. Conservatives are always saying this and decade after decade it is increasingly less true. Texas is more like California today than any point in Texas' history.
If push comes to shove, would you, as a Republican or Democrat, prefer a civil war where winner takes all or a one country two-systems solution? Would you want a legally pluralist US where each municipality or state (or confederate of states) has its own constitution & legal system?
- Nonsense question. History has already taught that the modern, diverse, industrialized, scientific, democratic majority of the nation will always prefer union and will always kick the ass of the low information, low energy, violent rump.
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@Lemming
People don't live and identify with their states as countries so much anymore, that I know of.I suppose some states have a significant more of one party or another,But states seem a mixed 'enough bag, to me.Far cry from era right before and during American Civil War, seems to me,I think Civil War fears of current situation, is excessive.
- Distinction without difference. States are becoming redder & bluer, & political issues are. becoming uncompromisable.
I'd rather people make their own laws to a degree,As individuals, city, county, state,But there's 'still values and actions I'd rather we 'not give people the right to act however they like.So still a fair number of national laws.
- Would you be fine with local laws banning things like abortion & homosexuality> Where would you draw the line?
Still I don't think people are going to isolate too much.Some people do,Mormons, Amish, Libertarian Free State Project.
- Would you marry someone the opposite site of the political spectrum? Would you befriend them?
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@oromagi
Infantilized is the word I think you are looking for.
- You're still here aren't you.
Most of the regulars are gone and the average age on this site has dropped twenty years over the past 12 months.
- You don't believe democrats & republicans are becoming more polarized?
False. Conservatives are always saying this and decade after decade it is increasingly less true. Texas is more like California today than any point in Texas' history.
- Reality says otherwise. Regardless, tell me honestly then, would you be OK with a DeSantis-Trump ideal 'Murica? How far will you go to prevent a US with no hate speech laws, no gay marriage, no affirmative action, no immigration, no abortion, no unemployment benefits...etc?
Nonsense question. History has already taught that the modern, diverse, industrialized, scientific, democratic majority of the nation will always prefer union and will always kick the ass of the low information, low energy, violent rump.
- Yet you've answered the "nonsense" question. 'Kick ass' implies violence; so I take it you prefer civil war & winner takes all, 'winner' being those who agree with you... It's funny how you call this "diverse" when you're not even willing to consider a legally pluralist nation. Also, 50 years doesn't amount to such big claims of History –Communism lasted longer than that. Make it last a few centuries & then we'll see. So, to repeat the question. Would you rather have a legally egalitarian nation even it means violence & force to have your point of view imposed or have a legally pluralist nation where other points of views are imposed on others?
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@Best.Korea
You are a muslim. You have wishful thinking. You want for west to collapse.
- Yes I am Muslim. Therefore, I want what God wants. If God wants the West to dominate the Universe, then so be it. If God wishes the West to disappear, then so be it. Regardless, the West are collapsing on their own in free fall. They don't require any assistance from my wishful thinking. Wishful thoughts have no impact in the real world anyways.
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@Yassine
@oromagi
Definitely a 2 state solution. It will undoubtedly prove the inferiority of liberalism. The blue states can cut off their children's dicks abort all their babies and have their soft fascism while red states will flourish without the depravity and economic turmoil.
It is no coincidence that blue areas always become poor and resemble 3rd world countries while red areas prosper with low crime good economies and family values.
I live in a blue area now. Trust me, absolute shit hole. Whenever I go on road trips to visit relatives in other blue areas, same thing. Meanwhile when I make put stops in red areas, absolute fucking paradise, every one of them.
History has already taught that the modern, diverse, industrialized, scientific, democratic majority of the nation will always prefer union
Of course they prefer union. A leech requires a host
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@PREZ-HILTON
Of course they prefer union...
Just ask the 600,000 dead Americans in 1865 what they preferred!
With current population levels, the next one should net 6 million killed. Fun!
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@PREZ-HILTON
Definitely a 2 state solution.
- As in one state two systems or like a confederation of literally two states?
It will undoubtedly prove the inferiority of liberalism. The blue states can cut off their children's dicks abort all their babies and have their soft fascism while red states will flourish without the depravity and economic turmoil.
- It would ultimately come down to population. Liberal lifestyle engenders under-replacement fertility, which would inevitably lose out to traditional lifestyle within a generation or two.
It is no coincidence that blue areas always become poor and resemble 3rd world countries while red areas prosper with low crime good economies and family values.
- Why exactly do you think this is?
I live in a blue area now. Trust me, absolute shit hole. Whenever I go on road trips to visit relatives in other blue areas, same thing. Meanwhile when I make put stops in red areas, absolute fucking paradise, every one of them.
- I've seen some of that. How far would you go to prevent things like Liberalism, abortion, child sex ed, gender affirming treatment, euthanasia, family drag... normalized across the US?
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@Yassine
I suspect the divide would be along the lines of one faction under a fully centralized government similar to present day Russia or China and the other half of the country would choose a confederation of free states similar to the EU.
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@Greyparrot
I suspect the divide would be along the lines of one faction under a fully centralized government similar to present day Russia or China and the other half of the country would choose a confederation of free states similar to the EU.
- Interesting! Which side is which & why?
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@Yassine
well i'd say 2/3 of the country mostly in big cities probably sides with the neolibs and the neocons... so that faction would want to become like China or Russia ... the other 1/3 of the population are border states and rural states which would confederate like the EU.
Probably not half and half.
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@Yassine
As in 2 countries. The southeastern part of the United States and all solidly red states. You won't see liberals supporting such a thing because while this would result in a virtual utopia for the red states, this sort of thing would result in the destruction of blue states because a parasite requires a host. We would likely see another war of Northern aggression backed by 3rd world shit holes like California try to dominate the south so they can keep a hold of their host to leech off of. They obviously would fail because their army would consist of undisciplined mud people, women and trannies who would face strong masculine men who are disciplined and fight with the moral high ground
It is no coincidence that blue areas always become poor and resemble 3rd world countries while red areas prosper with low crime good economies and family values.- Why exactly do you think this is?
I believe that the closer you get to Laissez Faire capitalism, the more prosperous a nation will be and I believe that the economic freedom index which measures how Laissez-faire a country is, indicates this.
I've seen some of that. How far would you go to prevent things like Liberalism, abortion, child sex ed, gender affirming treatment, euthanasia, family drag... normalized across the US?
Precisely as far as the Taliban would go. If they want to live in the Weimar Republic they can move to a blue state, where without republicans to intervene in such things would legalize shit like pedophilia.
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@Yassine
You're still here aren't you.
- Anecdote does not refute my stat.
- You don't believe democrats & republicans are becoming more polarized?
- No. If you look at the issues that concern Americans: economy, fair elections, abortion, gun control, gay marriage, etc the story is the Right-WIng of the Republican party grows increasingly radicalized, and a growing majority agrees that the radicals are wrong on most issues. That's not polarization that is consolidation. A quarter of Republican congresspersons just voted to make gay marriage the law of the land. How do you think think same quarter will vote on some version of legalized abortion?
- Reality says otherwise. Regardless, tell me honestly then, would you be OK with a DeSantis-Trump ideal 'Murica?
- Only an authoritarian follower believes that if somebody wins the Presidential election, their ideals are suddenly in force. That's how NAZIs thought, therefore that's how MAGA thinks but as long as America remains American that is never fucking ever true. In America, Presidents are just the twat in charge and American ideals are forged and maintained by Americans- which Trump was never really any part of, if we are being honest and certainly he was never capable of understanding.
- Trump won't ever win again but also won't ever stop running again because that is his best legal defense and his only effective source of funding. If the law or his health does not stop him, Trump will run. If Trump wins the GOP nomination, Cheney will split the ticket. If any Republican other than Trump wins the GOP, Trump will split the ticket. The only way the GOP wins in 2024 is if they stop Trump now and only the GOP can stop him.
- DeSantis could win under the right circumstance but there will never be a time when he represents the values of the American majority.
How far will you go to prevent a US with no hate speech laws, no gay marriage, no affirmative action, no immigration, no abortion, no unemployment benefits...etc?
- A majority of Republicans support hate speech laws, gay marriage, immigration, abortion and unemployment benefits. I am a Liberal so I don't support Affirmative Action in any kind of public policy structure but Gallup polling has support at 63%. You assume the split on these issues is Democrat-Republican and 50-50 but the split is actually radical-moderate and the splits are more like 70-30, even 80-20.
- The Romneys and McCains and Bushes and Cheneys all live in the same America as the Bidensand the Bernies and are glad and proud to continue to do so.
- US Intel tells us that recent separation movements in Texas, California, and Western Canada all originated with Russian money and Russian employees impersonating locals and agitating the (mostly criminal) radical Right. The Marjorie Taylor-Greens and Trumps and Gaetzes might enjoy the money they make for talking up separatism but none of those figures have the organizational capacity to actually lead a nation much less found one.
'Kick ass' implies violence;
- only to the violence-minded
It's funny how you call this "diverse" when you're not even willing to consider a legally pluralist nation.
- It's just code for segregation, apartheid, weak assholes afraid to compete on a level playing field. Every issue you named is just white men trying to preserve their place at the top of the food chain. In every age there's going to be the rump of conservative codgers who used to be the masters of the hierarchy and want to freeze the churning wheel of competition just before the ride down but the principles of Liberalism and Capitalism say that nations that aren't busy growing and changing and adapting and evolving are busy dying.
Would you rather have a legally egalitarian nation even it means violence & force to have your point of view imposed
- The American Revolution and the Civil War were both fought for different increases in equality but that's the first sentence of the Declaration of Independence, the very instrument that created and United the States, Americans, and Americanism. If you consider equality a "view imposed" it is only because that is the American character at its most distilled but also, this country may not be made for you. It takes a certain kind of confident courage to never want superiority in rights or demand that others form a line behind you in the pursuit of happiness. Not all who call themselves Americans understand that America is an idea, not a place on the map, and not all born to it are necessarily worthy.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Precisely as far as the Taliban would go. If they want to live in the Weimar Republic they can move to a blue state, where without republicans to intervene in such things would legalize shit like pedophilia.
It's only a matter of time, our cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic sexual abusers of children operating a global child sex trafficking ring will win in the end.
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@Yassine
Yes I am Muslim. Therefore, I want what God wants.
Well, thats nice. I used to wish what God wants too. I still talk to God every day and we discuss important issues.
If God wants the West to dominate the Universe, then so be it.
This planet is a tiny dot in the Universe. But yes, you will rule the universe.
If God wishes the West to disappear, then so be it.
Well, did you ask God? Please tell us what he told you so that we can laugh at you.
Regardless, the West are collapsing on their own in free fall.
US population is shrinking rapidly and they cant kill you all with nukes, especially if you hide in caves.
They don't require any assistance from my wishful thinking.
You sure are trying hard to hide your joy. If you were only this aroused when you pray to satan's son allah.
Wishful thoughts have no impact in the real world anyways.
No, keep wishing. You must always keep wishing more so allah can give you some of it. allah is nice.
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@Yassine
@#5
States might become more one party or another,
But I don't think that's a bad thing,
Might be it's good for people to live by local laws they like, more than laws they don't like.
Maybe more small government, less big government,
But I don't think any state splitting from the united nation, is happening anytime soon.
I'm still thinking on your question,
About where I'd draw the line.
I don't have an interest in getting married, or declaring people to be my friend,
I expect I'll never marry, and only have one person I actually call my friend.
Though I don't know the future, might change my opinion on marriage someday,
And if I was more normal about friendship,
Maybe there ought be many people I ought call friend,
. . .
I get along friendly enough with you I think, though we've different cultures, nations, ideals,
oromagi's more Left than I,
Greyparrot's more Right than I,
YouFound_Lxam's more Religous than I,
zedvictor4 more Atheist,
Statichead more LGBT supporting than I am,
But I like them all, well enough.
If people are polite, friendly, not a danger to me or those I love,
I can get along well enough.
Though might be it's easier to be friendly online, than in person,
And easier in person, than online.
I suppose I'd find it harder to hang out with someone with a violent criminal history in person, than online,
Or someone who wanted to legalize marriage of an age I think too young for said union.
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@oromagi
Anecdote does not refute my stat.
- Your anecdote*.
No. If you look at the issues that concern Americans: economy, fair elections, abortion, gun control, gay marriage, etc the story is the Right-WIng of the Republican party grows increasingly radicalized,
- That's exactly how you look to those on the Right, to whom it is the Left that is becoming more radicalized... Indeed.
and a growing majority agrees that the radicals are wrong on most issues. That's not polarization that is consolidation.
- The Right also says the same thing, except the radicals are you to them.
A quarter of Republican congresspersons just voted to make gay marriage the law of the land. How do you think think same quarter will vote on some version of legalized abortion?
- You're undoing yourself here. The overwhelming majority of Republican representatives opted otherwise then –which is also true for Republicans. You're assuming support for liberal practices will indefinitely grow, which isn't necessarily the case. For instance, support of the gay marriage significantly dropped among Conservatives between 2021 & 2022, prior to that bill you mentioned. – I will grant you one thing though, the younger generation on both sides is overwhelmingly Liberal. But that does not seal the future, since Conservatives tend to have a much higher fertility rate than Liberals. The divide is not going away any time soon.
Only an authoritarian follower believes that if somebody wins the Presidential election, their ideals are suddenly in force.
- Libs must be authoritarian followers then. Regardless, that's entirely besides the point. By definition, Law IS force. So, would you be fine with having those ideals Law?
That's how NAZIs thought, therefore that's how MAGA thinks but as long as America remains American that is never fucking ever true. In America, Presidents are just the twat in charge and American ideals are forged and maintained by Americans- which Trump was never really any part of, if we are being honest and certainly he was never capable of understanding.
- You're not that different from Nazis. You're just talking nonsense, "America remains American", "American ideals"... are just empty meaningless labels.
Trump won't ever win again but also won't ever stop running again because that is his best legal defense and his only effective source of funding. If the law or his health does not stop him, Trump will run. If Trump wins the GOP nomination, Cheney will split the ticket. If any Republican other than Trump wins the GOP, Trump will split the ticket. The only way the GOP wins in 2024 is if they stop Trump now and only the GOP can stop him.
- Although I might not disagree, all this is off topic. Trump is too hated by the Left & too old. The GOP should find another candidate...
DeSantis could win under the right circumstance but there will never be a time when he represents the values of the American majority.
- Florida says otherwise. Florida was Left leaning just a couple years ago.
A majority of Republicans support hate speech laws, gay marriage, immigration, abortion and unemployment benefits. I am a Liberal so I don't support Affirmative Action in any kind of public policy structure but Gallup polling has support at 63%. You assume the split on these issues is Democrat-Republican and 50-50 but the split is actually radical-moderate and the splits are more like 70-30, even 80-20.
- It is now the case, therefore it will be the case in the future is a fallacy. It's much easier & much quicker to make Whites, Republicans &/or Christians turn conservative, than to liberalize them. The former only takes destigmatization, while the latter requires generations of wide scale exposure to liberal values, in education, academia, media, social service...etc. – Don't be too sure about those splits...
The Romneys and McCains and Bushes and Cheneys all live in the same America as the Bidensand the Bernies and are glad and proud to continue to do so.US Intel tells us that recent separation movements in Texas, California, and Western Canada all originated with Russian money and Russian employees impersonating locals and agitating the (mostly criminal) radical Right. The Marjorie Taylor-Greens and Trumps and Gaetzes might enjoy the money they make for talking up separatism but none of those figures have the organizational capacity to actually lead a nation much less found one.
- This is exactly why Democracy is a shit system, easily penetrable by enemies. The only reason Democracy was mildly successful in the West in the last couple of decades & was virtually never successful elsewhere is because it is easily penetrable by stronger enemies, not so much by weaker enemies. – Also, this conspiracy tactic doesn't help you change reality. You might ignore the other side, but it's there.
only to the violence-minded
- That explains your History.
It's just code for segregation, apartheid,
- It takes a certain mindset of absolute self-righteousness & totalitarianism to consider others who disagree with you ruling themselves according to their own ideals equivalent to you ruling them according to ideals other than yours.
weak assholes afraid to compete on a level playing field.
- Indeed, which is why the only way you know to convince others is to force your ideals on them, exclude their views from your institutions & impose yours by force of law or violence.
Every issue you named is just white men trying to preserve their place at the top of the food chain. In every age there's going to be the rump of conservative codgers who used to be the masters of the hierarchy and want to freeze the churning wheel of competition just before the ride down
- Having such a caricatural view of those who don't share your ideals does not in any way refute or undo their ideals.
but the principles of Liberalism and Capitalism say that nations that aren't busy growing and changing and adapting and evolving are busy dying.
- Liberalism is unsustainable, by design. Transforming a nation of communities into a nation of individuals leads to despotism, social disintegration & extinction. Among the Whites you mentioned, fertility is at half replacement thanks to Liberalism, & at quarter replacement among Liberals. – Liberal population will half every generation, into oblivion. Nations that adopt Liberalism are, indeed, dying. – As to Capitalism in the modern Western sense, which is to maximize present & private benefits, is too unsustainable, by design. Maximizing your present at the expense of everyone else's & the future will do exactly just that. Your future is bleak. It is your children & grandchildren that are the price for your present fleeting prosperity.
The American Revolution and the Civil War were both fought for different increases in equality but that's the first sentence of the Declaration of Independence, the very instrument that created and United the States, Americans, and Americanism.
- If you mean by 'instrument' the art of deception that is to shout large promises & deliver meager results & to make-up pretty labels to disguise the same old ugly meanings, then I wholeheartedly agree. Shout "all men are created equal" then proceed to exclude all but some men: Blacks, Irish, Catholics... &/or non-Nationals.
If you consider equality a "view imposed" it is only because that is the American character at its most distilled but also, this country may not be made for you.
- True. I prefer Justice, not Injustice disguised as Equality. Indeed, Equality can but be imposed by force, for different peoples have different ideals & norms.
It takes a certain kind of confident courage to never want superiority in rights or demand that others form a line behind you in the pursuit of happiness.
- I assume you mean by 'rights' & 'happiness' the kind that conforms to your views. What do you think about a Sharia imposed equality in rights & happiness, in a multi-religious society?
Not all who call themselves Americans understand that America is an idea, not a place on the map, and not all born to it are necessarily worthy.
- Regardless of the nonsense you're spouting. You seem to be a proud American who believes in these values. Would you be willing to defend your American values in a formal debate?
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@Best.Korea
Well, thats nice. I used to wish what God wants too. I still talk to God every day and we discuss important issues.
- I mentioned this before, but you need to check yourself into an asylum. God does not discuss.
This planet is a tiny dot in the Universe. But yes, you will rule the universe.
- Elon Must will be sad if he hears this.
Well, did you ask God? Please tell us what he told you so that we can laugh at you.
- You're the one who supposedly talks to God. You should laugh at yourself, or take my advise & go see a shrink.
US population is shrinking rapidly and they cant kill you all with nukes, especially if you hide in caves.
- Coming from the country that took their nuclear technology from Muslims... A North Korean American slave! Ain't that beautiful. Supreme leader is deeply disappointed.
You sure are trying hard to hide your joy.
- Not sure if this is you projecting your own concealed joy of American collapse or you in denial of your American slavitude.
If you were only this aroused when you pray to satan's son allah.
- The god you worship is not God, whom I worship.
No, keep wishing. You must always keep wishing more so allah can give you some of it. allah is nice.
- Allah does whatever He pleases.
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@PREZ-HILTON
As in 2 countries. The southeastern part of the United States and all solidly red states. You won't see liberals supporting such a thing because while this would result in a virtual utopia for the red states, this sort of thing would result in the destruction of blue states because a parasite requires a host. We would likely see another war of Northern aggression backed by 3rd world shit holes like California try to dominate the south so they can keep a hold of their host to leech off of. They obviously would fail because their army would consist of undisciplined mud people, women and trannies who would face strong masculine men who are disciplined and fight with the moral high ground
- Hahahahahaha! This made me laugh hard.
I believe that the closer you get to Laissez Faire capitalism, the more prosperous a nation will be and I believe that the economic freedom index which measures how Laissez-faire a country is, indicates this.
- Does laissez-faire refer to corporate activity or individual private finances & transactions?
Precisely as far as the Taliban would go. If they want to live in the Weimar Republic they can move to a blue state, where without republicans to intervene in such things would legalize shit like pedophilia.
- The Right are shifting slowly further back in History in reaction to present Progressivism. Some stop pre-Nonbinary in 2020s, some pre Gay Marriage in 2010s, some pre LGBT normalization in 2000s, some pre Male resentment in the 1990s, some pre female emancipation in the 1980s, some pre sexual liberation in the 1970s, some pre civil rights in the 1960s, some pre anti-nationalism in the 1950s, some pre anti-Nazism & Semitism in the 1940s, some pre anti-White supremacy before that... some pre Civil War, & some even pre US Constitution, since to them therein lies the origin of all Progressivism. This depends on how much one wishes to purge themselves of Progressivist ideas, & thus how far back a point in History they must settle into. – Where do you see yourself now, & how far back in History are you willing to go to uphold your ideals?
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@Yassine
Does laissez-faire refer to corporate activity or individual private finances & transactions?
A Laissez Faire system would if done correctly result in a bunch of small independent business owners, similar to what we had prior to the industrial revolution, but with less ability to treat workers as terrible as was done back then.
The Right are shifting slowly further back in History in reaction to present Progressivism.
That's a fair criticism and one of the downfalls to conservatism, and at risk of revealing my power level, I think conservatives are valuable allies, but ultimately would lean towards some sort of populist fascism. Being consistently behind liberals by 20 years is a losing strategy.
The conservatism of a person like John Adams is more sustainable but ultimately is becoming extremely rare among conservatives .
So first we would divide red by blue states and then work towards policies that would bring about some sort of technocratic right wing fascism that is a mix of evola style governance and transhumanism.
Where do you see yourself now, & how far back in History are you willing to go to uphold your ideals?
Me personally. I just try to use the tools of modern society while resisting things that are destructive, such as cutting my dick off, having meaningless sex, doing drugs and letting life pass me by, by using the television and internet as some sort of opium of the masses. I also have a strong revulsion towards consumerism.
I wouldn't go back to uphold my ideals. The destructiveness of liberal ideologies is something we have proven we can not tolerate. We showed them freedom of speech and they used it to cancel conservatives and kick them out of the public square for example. We allowed them to use corporations to attack American society with their filth.
In my society, every member would work towards what is best for the country and we would make laws to ensure that happens, but we would have to control culture as well.
Maybe sterilize family lines which are proven to be bad.
Indoctrinate people in schools where the marxists have previously infiltrated and corrupted.
In fact basically take what the CCP has done, but instead of doing it selfishly for themselves and their party, invert it to do what is good for America.
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@Yassine
That's exactly how you look to those on the Right, to whom it is the Left that is becoming more radicalized... Indeed.
- But an honest history of America tells us that's not so. The left is a little more pro-gay, a little less pro-affirmative action than it was 50 years ago but in most ways the leftist majority holds the same beliefs they did 50 years ago. American Leftism is still in good alignment with the politics of Roosevelt and LBJ. Jimmy Carter is still a beloved grand old man within the Democratic Party. The Republican Party just threw out Liz Cheney, and considers McCain and Romney RINOs with no place in the radically reformatted Republican Party. Bush, Reagan, Nixon have no place in the modern Republican Party. When Barry Goldwater ran for President in '64 he was the absolute extreme Right of acceptable Americanism post-McCarthy and by 1995, that same Goldwater told the GOP " "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have." Justice John Paul Stevens often noted that he was appointed in 1975 as the most Conservative member of the Supreme Court and retired in 2010 as the most Liberal member of that same court without ever changing a single political principle.
- The Right WIng can play "I'm rubber, you're glue" all they want but the fact is that the Right Wing has departed from traditional American values.
You're assuming support for liberal practices will indefinitely grow, which isn't necessarily the case.
- There is a pendulum quality to history across centuries, from left to right and back again but there also a decisive leftist narrative. Greece was more liberal than Egypt. Rome was more Liberal than Greece. The Ummayad Caliphate was more liberal than Rome. The Renaissance was more liberal than the Caliphate. The Revolutionaries were more liberal than the Renaissance, etc. As Martin Luther King noted, “the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” That justice is always more free and more equal and therefore more liberal than the generation before. Authoritarians seize back power now and again but history and technology and sheer fucking numbers make authoritarianism increasingly less effective and every swing right a little bit shorter.
- Libs must be authoritarian followers then.
- Obviously false. Look at Biden's recent compromises with Manchin on permitting deals and new oil pipelines. Biden pisses off the Left-wing more than the Right. Pelosi put Cheney in charge of the Jan 6th hearings to make sure that the non-radical Republican party had its say. Only MAGA rejects sharing power, as is evident in the knife fights they are about to have over the Speakership and then the 2024 Nomination.
By definition, Law IS force. So, would you be fine with having those ideals Law?
- Only radicals obey the law from fear of force. Most Americans don't aspire to criminal acts and see the police as protective.
"American ideals"... are just empty meaningless labels.
- That's quite false and quite revealing about your values.
- Florida says otherwise. Florida was Left leaning just a couple years ago.
- but Georgia is more representative of future demographic trends and swinging left.
It's much easier & much quicker to make Whites, Republicans &/or Christians turn conservative, than to liberalize them.
- 20 million few Americans identified as White in 2020 then 2010.
- 12% fewer Americans identify as Christian than ten years ago
This is exactly why Democracy is a shit system, easily penetrable by enemies.
- The very fact that you are willing to call McCain and Romney "enemies of America" and "the failure of Democracy" demonstrates an fast moving and unsustainable radicalism. These statements are totally out of alignment with American values.
only to the violence-minded- That explains your History.
- agreed
It takes a certain mindset of absolute self-righteousness & totalitarianism to consider others who disagree with you ruling themselves according to their own ideals equivalent to you ruling them according to ideals other than yours.
- Yeah but only fascists think that way. Liberals know governments can never live up to individual idealism and don't look to government to represent their values.
Indeed, which is why the only way you know to convince others is to force your ideals on them, exclude their views from your institutions & impose yours by force of law or violence.
- Liberals wrote the Bill of Rights to prevent exactly that. Liberals don't play that.
Having such a caricatural view of those who don't share your ideals does not in any way refute or undo their ideals.
- Nor is your critique any kind of rebuttal
Liberalism is unsustainable, by design
- Obviously false. All of the longest lasting continuous government in the world today are Liberal Republics. Most autocracies die with their dictator- Russia will soon be wanting a new government, for example.
Among the Whites you mentioned, fertility is at half replacement thanks to Liberalism,
- Our Republic is older than the notion of "Whiteness" and will endure long beyond that social construct. There is nothing about America that inherently White or Christian or male.
As to Capitalism in the modern Western sense, which is to maximize present & private benefits, is too unsustainable, by design.
- Capitalism is an economic term describing the competitive aspect in human nature. Capitalism exists whether governments want it or not, as Russia and China soon discovered in the 20th century. You can harness competition to the good of your economy or you can suppress competition for economic harm but you can't kill that human instinct any more than you can kill our instinct for charity or teamwork or self-improvement.
If you mean by 'instrument' the art of deception that is to shout large promises & deliver meager results & to make-up pretty labels to disguise the same old ugly meanings, then I wholeheartedly agree. Shout "all men are created equal" then proceed to exclude all but some men: Blacks, Irish, Catholics... &/or non-Nationals.
- You think the American Revolution produced "meager results"? Damn, you really don't know the first fucking thing about world history, do you?
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@Lemming
Still I don't think people are going to isolate too much.Some people do,Mormons, Amish, Libertarian Free State Project.
The Mormons most people think of (officially Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) are not isolationist. They practically own Utah and Southeast Idaho (my county is 48% Mormon iirc) and have congregations all over the world. There may be much smaller sects that tend to isolate, but the only ones I know of are the polygamists, who are technically breaking the law.
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@K_Michael
Fair point,
Maybe concentrate, would have been a better word for me to use.
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@Yassine
I mentioned this before, but you need to check yourself into an asylum. God does not discuss.
Its sad that your satanic god allah does not discuss. He sure sounds fun at discussions and I would like to discuss with him.
Elon Must will be sad if he hears this.
We all care.
You're the one who supposedly talks to God. You should laugh at yourself, or take my advise & go see a shrink.
I should laugh at myself. I am not a muslim. I dont pray to allah in doggy style. I dont howl when I pray.
Coming from the country that took their nuclear technology from Muslims... A North Korean American slave! Ain't that beautiful. Supreme leader is deeply disappointed.
Muslims are the greatest at technology. Its not the USA or North Korea. Its muslims and their rocket goats.
Not sure if this is you projecting your own concealed joy of American collapse or you in denial of your American slavitude.
No, I live in delusion of thinking west will collapse.
The god you worship is not God, whom I worship.
You dont take doggy style position when you pray. You are most certainly not a little dog. Why do muslims howl when they pray?
Allah does whatever He pleases
allah sure is great, his satanic homosexual fathers will be so proud of their little faggot son allah.
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@Yassine
@Best.Korea
Kim’s a girls name. I couldn’t help myself.
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@Reece101
Kim Jong Un has a gender neutral name. So does his father Kim Jong il, and his grandfather Kim il Sung.
Gender neutral names are just some of the things that make North Korea so great at human rights.
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@Best.Korea
Kim Jong Un has a gender neutral name. So does his father Kim Jong il, and his grandfather Kim il Sung.
So they are non-binary, that explains a lot. Kim Jong Un's obsession with missles always did seem sexual in nature.
Gender neutral names are just some of the things that make North Korea so great at human rights.
Yeah, it's that woman's touch.