Complex-to-Simple Evolution

Author: ebuc

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#1
ebuc
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Happy Holy Days ..... Fullers complex-to-simple evolution means that complex biological life is either a pop-out code in whole from cosmic egg in an eternally existent occupied space Universe. Energy { physical reality } cannot be created nor destroyed, ---or ?--- however, I see it this way,

occupied space of physical reality is a sub-set of meta-physical --because not quantised or quantified by humans---, ergo ' occupied space { Meta-physical Gravity (  ) and Meta-physical Dark Energy )( } are the more likey eternally existent primary set of Universe.

It is worth remmembering that, the new complexity evolution of AI ---in writing stories, poems and music---  is always a resultant inspiration the of more complex inspirited humans. AI will not create biological life, nor lead to humans creating complex biological life.
#2
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@ebuc
I have a Christmas present for you. It's the concept of 'inferential distance.' If you want to have a conversation about (meta)physics (if that's what all your garbage posting/meaningless formatting means) with the laymen who use this site, then you have to use layman's terms, or at least explain every new word before you use it.
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@K_Michael
1} K.M, I'm still waiting your response to --we do not tune-in { to frequency } to gravity--- as you still appear clueless to that fact, i.e. once again we do not quantise nor quantify gravity irrespective of how many irrelevant claims of other.

It's the concept of 'inferential distance.'
Sure. What are you waiting for. If it is for humans to quantise and/or quantify gravity, we could be waiting a long time if not never.

If you want to have a conversation about (meta)physics
Ive been very clear with my definitions of how I define Meta-physics irrespective of others who want to pooh those definitions. If you any two or more people want to have to have a logical common sense critical thinking disscussion, they have to agree on definitions of word/terms, for starters, other wise the disscussion quickly evolves into a no-starter back-n-forth. Old news to some of us.

(if that's what all your garbage posting/meaningless formatting means) with the laymen who use this site,
Again, ive been very clear countless times on this site in many differrent threads what any and all of any texticonic symbolism I use means exactly. If you never seen any of my explanations, then you can ask for clarifications. Simple.

then youan have to use layman's terms, or at least explain every new word before you use it.

I dont know what " new word " your talking about in post #1 in this thread. You ---like so many other--- rarely address a specific of my comments with actual quote. 

Do you  truly want to have a disscussion with me? You were wrong about gravity and ran off never to be heard of again, when I provided facts to you.

Lets see if you fare any better in this thread. Tho to be clear, some of my concepts are wild speculation { based on whatever }, and some are speculation based on facts. Such speculations, either way, are most often based logical common sense, critical thinking by me, and often, over many years of thinking about an issue tho sometimes not.
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ebuc
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Happy Holy Days-----..' An AI only produces cheerful words, stories, poems and music, as a resultant of human inspiration to do so. '.....

Oops, that is the only new stuff it does well. Of course AI can also do geometry,,, O...  (  )...   )( ....and  other complex maths ex,

...........Pi^3 { XYZ } >31< . 00  >62<  '7'---66.......  is transcendental .
Pi^4 { XYZ-d } / 4 = [ 24 ]. 35---22---'7'-- -2'7'....... transcendental
...............Pi^4 - 31 = 66 --4'0'- 9'0'-- 9----1'0'.....34 00 [24]......3723....644'0'....is transcendental

.." The number pi, like other fundamental constants of mathematics such as e = 2.718..., is a transcendental number. The digits of pi and e never end, nor has anyone detected an orderly pattern in their arrangement "..

.." In effect, he proved that pi transcends the power of algebra to display it in its totality. It can't be expressed in any finite series of arithmetical or algebraic operations."...


Which came first the occupied space chicken { Universe per se ] or a chickens { Universe } Meta-space concept of egg?

This is trick  question so be prepared for a tricky answer :--)) O ((--:





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#5
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Happy Holy Days~~~O Great Mama~~~~is nucleated ( O )  

end >~~~~~:--) O (--:~~~~~~<~~begin~~~~>~~~ ( O )~~~>~~~~repeat

Egg ( O )....>....Physical ( /\/\/ ) Reality.....<........Egg ( O )

Black hole...>..........sine-wave....<...............Black Hole

Which came first the occupied space chicken { Universe per se ] or a chickens { Universe } Meta-space concept of egg?

This is trick  question so be prepared for a tricky answer :--)) O ((--:


#6
sadolite
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"The 4 big bangs"

1) Cosmological  > The creation of mass light and energy

2)Biological  > The creation of basic life (microbes, bacteria, etc)

3) Anthropological > The creation of complex life (animals and man)

4) Psychological > The creation of self awareness


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#7
ebuc
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@sadolite
1) Cosmological  > The creation of mass light and energy
That physical reality came--born-out first---   is possibily correct, since Gravitational space (  ) and Dark Energy space )( are the eternally existent, primary essence of Universe, only to invaginate with resultant sine-wave /\/\/\/  association between the two.

2)Biological  > The creation of basic life (microbes, bacteria, etc)
The encoding for such may be eternally embedded in Gravitational (  O ) black holes i.e. the Gravitation fields of godesic curvature, waiting to be evaporated ---expelled as EMRadiation--- out from the dying black holes, only to be taken in by that which can transform the encodings into building blocks of biologic life.

I recall and experiement where dude shoots shell into a chamber of sand or dirt to try and recreate energies of metorite hitting Earth. They were surprised to find organized { orderly } polypeptieds as a resultant, instead of disordered mess 

3) Anthropological > The creation of complex life (animals and man)
Again, coding for such may eternally exist in some specific kinds of black holes.

Why does quantum entanglement --aka superposition--- exist?  What purpose --if any-- does it serve?

.........(o )(  )(  )(  )(  )( o).......Gravitational, geodesic connections { entanglement tunnels/wormholes } are positive curvature geodesics }?

4) Psychological > The creation of self awareness
Aka biologic life's access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego { i-dentity }. Some animals other than humans also have varying degrees of access to Meta-space.

......space(> * < ) i  (> * <)space.......... 

.....space( time } i  ( time )space.....

.....space( /\/\/ ) i  ( /\/\/ )space....

Complex-to-simple is less frustrating than simple-to-complex. Synergetic principle #1

Start with the whole and no parts can be left out.

All parts are minimally connected by Gravity (   ) ---outer set of nodal events----  if not also the inner set of Dark Energy )( nodal events

The only real-time observed biologic life evolution is with bacteria, and who can say if it is complex-to-simple, lateral, or simple-to-complex?

Synergy = the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and often times not the predicted resultant.

14 nodal events = 91 lines-of-relationship via 14^2, minus 14 and divided by 2 ergo exponential process

...1...................5p......7p..................11p........13p..................17p......19p.................23p.......(25) not p
-
-
0............................6.................................12.................................18................................24...................
..............3p............................9.....................................15...............................21.....................................
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-
........2p........4....................8.......10.........................14.......16.....................20.......22.............................

91 is just short of 92 chemical elements. 92nd being uranium. Four sets of twin-primes, before 25 appears to end that pattern.

Four lines/levels

Four is systemically unstable, 90 degree-ness of a square [  ] that is balanced by,

Three is the stable 60 degree-ness structure of triangle /\    Together they define the four great hexagonal planes of the Vector Equlibrium, that, transforms.




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sadolite
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@ebuc
Science and math cant explain any of it. 

Simply put, basic life has no need to become complex to survive.  Only complex life must change/adapt to survive.
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#9
ebuc
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@sadolite
All that occupied space existence is complemented by math{s} ergo numbers. Old news to those who have been paying attention over last 10,000 years or more.

Any celestial object with an atmosphere, that orbits a sun, has four seasons.

There exists four primary kinds of twoness:

Spin twoness .....................2 is additive { left-right } see Hyper-space's  Plus 2 above
Duality twoness.................2 is { concave-convex } multiplicative
Interrelationship twoness 2
Environmental twoness....2
....................................total 8


66.4 is my Cosmic abosolute Pi-Time. 3 = structural stability via 60 degree-ness of triangle /\

...90 degreeness of square ergo 4-ness = systemically transformative. 3 + 4 = 7 --irrational heptagon---

The 12-around-1 spheres of the Vector Equlibrium aka cub0octahedron, have 8 surface triangles { structure } and 6 surface squares { transformative }. Together these make 14 surfaces ergo 7 diametric axi,  ---and a pi related circumference to diameter--- and we may say, that, the transformative VE is the agent of change, or we may say that the 7 axi are the agent of change/time/motion/spin/contract/expand/inside-out/precess

Here below I chose to divide my Pi-TIme 66.4 or its rounded off version 66, by 7.  In the overall 7th position we find number 1 initial appearence, the numb 1 repeats of 6 decimal positions, eternally.  6 = 6-around-one circles ergo nucleated { 7th nuclear } purity

66 / 7 =  9.42 85 7 1 42 85 714 28 57 14 285.....here the 7th overall position is the number 1, a repetitively closed system

Next I take the 66.4 divided by 7 and in overall 7th position we find number 4, that, then repeats eternally every 6th { purity } position.

66.4 / 7 = 9.48 571 4 28 57 14 28 57 14 28 57 1...here the overall 7th position is number 4....a repetitively closed system

We may say, that, 7 --as impurity and agent of change-- is initiating transformation, to be followed by regularity eternally, or at least until the any local operative system crosses paths ---interference-- with another system, we may see the agent of change 7 axi of the VE being invoked.

Bucky Fuller refers to the Vector Equlibrium ---24 chords--- and its 25 Great Circle Railroad tracks as the operating system of Universe.  The cosmic Grand Central Station for all transformation.  http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/figs/plate04.html

There is Zoom at bottom of URL to easier read doc. 


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@ebuc
Are you describing what already exists based on observation of what already exists or are you describing how the universe and everything in it came into existence before it was observable?  That is the question, can science and math  explain something from nothing.
#11
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@sadolite
I've been asking that question for years.

One can explain the perpetual regeneration of matter, but the beginning is impossible to explain.
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@zedvictor4
Or one could contemplate the idea that our observable universe and everything in it was created by an intelligence  far far far far far beyond our ability to understand. 
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@sadolite
One could certainly contemplate that.

But one could also ask the same simple question of that.

Something from nothing?
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#14
ebuc
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@sadolite
@zedvictor4
That is the question, can science and math  explain something from nothing.

Where do you two get these illogical, lack of common sense, lack of critical thinking concepts from? Video fantasy games? Singularities? Null geodesic proved by Roger Penrose on Einsteins general relativty and S Hawkings consideratio of Universe from a singularity black hole? 

You two offer nothing of significance in these regards. 

........................................space(> * < ) i  (> * <)space..... .................................

i = ego based identity and access to those Meta-space concepts of " something from nothing " that are as illogical as an occupied space God that created Universe type scenarios. Masturbation of mind is fun, yes?

Eternally existent, yet finite, occupied space ergo eternally the complemented by maths.  Simple not to complex to grasp. It is the ego that gets in way of humans sometimes inability to see truth.

Outer Geodesics Space (  )--------------------->attractively coherent phenomena (  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )
Observable Sine-wave Reality /\/\/~~~~~~> *  * bilateral access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts
Inner Geodesic Space )(-------------------------> repulsive resultant of too much attraction  )(  )(  )(  )

6 = purity/regular\symmetry, however, i do take note that, dividing by 7p { nucleus of purity } induces periodic repeating regularity of seeming random-ness { 47p }

66 / 7 =  9.42 85 7 1 42 85 714 28 57 14 285.....here the 7th overall position is the number 1, a repetitively closed system

66.4 / 7 = 9.48 571 4 28 57 14 28 57 14 28 57 1...here the overall 7th position is number 4....a repetitively closed system

In following set of divisors of 66, if we discount 1 and 66 were left with 6 { purity } divisors

1..2p..3p...6...11p....22.....33......66 = a total of 8 divisors

The square root of 66.4 is 8.14 86 19 51 49 85 35 and this is first time Ive ever looked at this. First thing that comes to mind is Pi { 3.14 } ergo, that is increase of 5 over Pi's 3.14...........

Number theory..." According to the German mathematician Carl Friedrich Gauss (1777–1855), "Mathematics is the queen of the sciences—and number theory is the queen of mathematics."[1][note 1] Number theorists study prime numbers as well as the properties of mathematical objects made out of integers (for example, rational numbers) or defined as generalizations of the integers (for example, algebraic integers). ".....




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@ebuc
Could you be more succinct and use layman terms to prove that you know how the the universe and everything in it was created. None of what you posted means anything to me. You are going to have to explain it to us math and science dullards in a more simple and direct fashion. In other words, explain it like you are talking to an 8 year old child.
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ebuc
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@sadolite
...universe and everything in it was created.
Your still using illogical lack of common sense and lack of critical thinking.  When you have specific word or phrase you dont grasp, please post. Your playing mind masturbation games with self and other ergo, you not truly interested in having logical, common sense, critical thinking disscussion. Sad :--(

Whats the old adage from 50's sci-fi movies where, humans meet aliens who have just landed --ex Day the Earth Stood Still--- and dont understand them, so they say ..quick, shoot them...

Ive been very clear in many differrent formatted presentations over the years and in many differrent threads.  A myriad set of over-lapping and interfering space-time, 3D tori was just the lastest scenario as extrapolated out from synergetics great 2D circles, that explain all of the componet parts of quantum Universe. Yes, I would love to have better graphic depictions.

Outer Geodesics Space (  )--------------------->attractively coherent phenomena (  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )
Observable Sine-wave Reality /\/\/~~~~~~> *  * bilateral access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts
Inner Geodesic Space )(-------------------------> repulsive resultant of too much attraction  )(  )(  )(  )

Its complicated. And with out access to better graphic aniamation programming, there is so much I cannot explore further with these over-lapping and interfering space-time tori
#17
sadolite
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@ebuc
I guess only a tiny minute fraction of people will be privy to how the universe and everything it it came to be. Your a lucky man to know. To bad the concept is so complex that it cant be explained simply to us dullards.
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#18
ebuc
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@sadolite
Your a lucky man to know.
Know what exactly? Your maing inferences of something Ive certainly not made claim to.  More mental { Meta-space } masturbation on your part.

You have no interest in logical, common sense, critical thinking dialogue. Sad :--( Meta-space masturbation of the mind  can lead to Meta-space orgasims, tho not necessarily cosmic truths. Much of my cosmological scenarios are based on some truths, some facts and much specuclation. ' Dare to be naive '....Bucky Fuller

Outer Geodesics Space (  )--------------------->attractively coherent phenomena (  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )
Observable Sine-wave Reality /\/\/~~~~~~> *  * bilateral access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts
Inner Geodesic Space )(-------------------------> repulsive resultant of too much attraction  )(  )(  )(  )

Four special number systems..." When you add, subtract, multiply or divide the “real numbers” used in everyday life, you always get another real number. Three generalizations of the real numbers also behave in this way. Many physicists believe that all four of these “division algebras” underlie the laws of physics. 


....' A generalized principle holds true in every case '....

...' Synergy discloses that the information to be derived from micro ---> macro educational strategy fails completely to predict the experimentally demonstrable gravitational or mass-attraction integrities of entropically irreversible, universal scenario reality.

229.06...' Humanity being a macro---->micro Universe, unfolding eventuation is physically irreversible yet eternally integrated with Universe. Humanity cannot shrink and return into the womb and revert to as yet unfertilized ova. '...

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Sidewalker
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@sadolite
That is the question, can science and math  explain something from nothing.
No, they cannot.

First of all, the question presumes the physical existence of nothing, and nothing cannot have the property of existence.

Second, it presumes a temporal ordering and nothing has no temporal existence.

Third, it assumes some kind of causal process without either the time for a process to occur in, or properties to be acted upon.

Fundamentally we think in a series of binary oppositions.  You can’t have a left without a right or an up without a down, the concept of “nothing” is cognitively transactional with the concept of “something”, so for “something” to have meaning, there needs to be a mental concept of “nothing”.  Conceptually, they must coexist, just as you can’t have an up without a down, you can’t have nothing without something.

Existence is the default state of reality, there is no alternative in time or space, or even conceptually. In the end, the question of something from nothing transcends the frame of reference of math and science, and you can’t really speak of transcendence without all the atheists having a conniption, throwing a tantrum, and generally, just boring the shit out of us. 
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#20
ebuc
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@Sidewalker
there needs to be a mental concept of “nothing”.

Good stuff all, however, there is one additional caveat to your above and our finite, occupied space existence of Universe, that,  you did not include and that is the truly macro-infinite non-occupied space outside of meta/beyond the finite occupied space aka Universe.

This the basis of my Cosmic Trinary Outline/Set.

1} Eternally existent and complementary to the below 2 and 3, meta-space mind/intellect/concept and ego { spirit-1 }

-----conceptual line-of-demarcation----

2} eternally existent as truly meta-non-occupied space, outside  of the following,

3} eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe ---spirit-2, 3 and 4---.

...3a} spirit-2 physical reality of fermions, bosons and a new third set that is hybrid of those two, may be eternally existent, or briefly pop out and back into existence. This brief moment may be likened to the concept of virtual particle brief existence,

....3b}spirit-3,  eternally existent occupied space Gravity (  ),

.....3c} spirit-4, eternally existent, occupied space Dark Energy )(.

Yes, I know the cosmological scenarios say Dark Energy came into existence some time after the initiating cyclic big bang.  I dont think that is the case. It could always exist an vary in its degree of intensity { magnitude }.

From Wiki so take with grain of salt ;--).... "Dark energy is broadly similar to inflation and is thought to be causing the expansion of the present-day universe to accelerate. However, the energy scale of dark energy is much lower, 10−12 GeV, roughly 27 orders of magnitude less than the scale of inflation. "

.." The cosmological constant is usually assumed to be, well, a constant. If it isn't, it can be more generally referred to as 'dark energy. "
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/05/30/is-there-really-a-cosmological-constant-or-is-dark-energy-changing-with-time/?sh=2bfe3fbe78b5

..." Since it is the energy of space itself, then as space expands more dark energy comes into the universe, causing the expansion to accelerate ever faster. If dark energy is left unchecked, it is a scenario that could ultimately result in a Big Rip that would tear the fabric of space–time apart."...

To be clear, in the latter above, if Dark Energy is increasing, ---"more dark energy"--- then either the finite Universe is transforming, occupied space realty, Gravity or both into dark energy, because, naught { energy } cannot be created nor destroyed, only transformed.

#21
Sidewalker
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@sadolite
None of what you posted means anything to me. You are going to have to explain it to us math and science dullards in a more simple and direct fashion. In other words, explain it like you are talking to an 8 year old child.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm a f---ing math and science genius, and none of what he posted means anything to me either.
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#22
ebuc
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@Sidewalker
If it makes you feel any better, I'm a f---ing math and science genius, and none of what he posted means anything to me either.
I posted no math in reply to you ergo, your ability to do math is irrelevant to the rather simple set three concepts Ive presented for some years now. Not too mention that half or more of the post to you was not even my word. Ergo more evidence of your ego in the way to logical, common sense, critical thinking.

I think it makes your ego feel better to make your comment above. Sad :--( When all else fails others always fall back on their ego { i } to save face.

This the basis of my Cosmic Trinary Outline/Set.

1} Eternally existent and complementary too  --to 2 and 3 below--- meta-space mind/intellect/concept and ego { spirit-1 }

-----conceptual line-of-demarcation----

2} eternally existent as truly meta-occupied space i.e. truly-non-occupied space, outside  of the following,

3} eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe ---spirit-2, 3 and 4---.

...3a} spirit-2 physical reality of fermions, bosons and a new third set that is hybrid of those two, may be eternally existent, or briefly pop out and back into existence. This brief moment may be likened to the concept of virtual particle brief existence,

....3b}spirit-3,  eternally existent occupied space Gravity (  ),

.....3c} spirit-4, eternally existent, occupied space Dark Energy )(.

#23
sadolite
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Does anyone on this site know what Ebuc is saying? And if so, could you explain it to me in plain English. I'm a dullard, I don't get what any of it means. Some how I think my ego is getting in the way of my ability to understand what Ebuc is saying.
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#24
ebuc
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@sadolite
I'm a dullard,
Ego creating false narrative much. Please share when you have something of significant relevance. You havent done that in single post in this thread. Ego in way much.

i = ego identifying integrity, that, does not truly die, yet can be placed to the side, to let in truth in, --or create a false narrative-- as some like to do with me---, however, occupied space biologic/soul can die, and only then does access to i { ego identifying integrity } truly die.

Eternally is a word I begin with in Cosmic Trinary Set, and no one understands what eternally means.  Yeah, because of their ego.

Some other fear truth of my using  logical common sense critical thinking, due to their ego.  So they created and infer a false narrative in my regards. Old news. Seen for years.

Sidewalker can also be perceived as side-stepper of logical, common sense, critical thinking, in regards to anything I say.
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#25
ebuc
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Any celestial object with an spin, atmosphere, and orbits a sun, has four seasons. See post #9 Simple.

Sad did offer a semi-good effort with his set of four in #6.

Other than, few here interested in logical common sense, critical thinking dialogue.

I presented trinary subset of occupied space Universe twice now.

Most recent was post #22 to Sidewalker {sidestepper } who appears to infer that they are is clueless. to ebucs comments wherein we find 3a, 3b and 3c.

However, before that, I presented that first primary sub-set of Universe as again follows, and it is again, just another rendition  --of many ive formatted and reformatted--- for clarity over last 10 or more years:

Outer Geodesics Space (  )--------------------->attractively coherent phenomena (  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )(  )
Observable Sine-wave Reality /\/\/~~~~~~> *  * bilateral access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts
Inner Geodesic Space )(-------------------------> repulsive resultant of too much attraction  )(  )(  )(  )

This trinary sets is reflective of 3a, 3b and 3c.  Rather simple, but does require more clarity for those who dont grasp positive (  ) and negative curvature )( of a torus. perhaps even some around here do yet grasp the concept of a torus. 

There rendition --of the  old saying--,   that, you can lead a human dullard horse, or even a more educated science genius  horse,  to  logical, common sense critical thinking water hole, yet we cannot make them  drink that water.   This phenomena is related to Sadolites #4 in post #6 above.

...." 4) Psychological > The creation of self awareness "......this awareness is reflective of access to ego, logical, common sense and critical thinking.

Another way to perceive some of the phenomena in this thread, is Paul Neuman in his movie 'Cool Hand Luke ', where he states, ---just before the cops shoot him--- is, ..' what we have here, is failure to communicate '....

#26
CoolApe
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@ebuc
What is this meta-space where you say mind, intellect and concepts comes from?

Is it similar to Plato's theory of knowledge and reality? Something to the effect that mind, knowledge, and abstract thought transcends physical reality.

You also talk about outer and inner geodesics, which you seem to think is related to how the universe is shaped. 

Seems that also think the universe is shaped like a torus?

Some articles that I have read suggest that majority think the universe is flat. Some studies seem to think the universe is curved based on how light would travel differently on flat plane than on a curved surface.

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#27
ebuc
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@CoolApe
What is this meta-space where you say mind, intellect and concepts comes from?
Best to start with posting a comment I actually made ex #22

1} Eternally existent and complementary too  --to 2 truly non-occupied space and 3 occupied space below--- meta-space mind/intellect/concept and ego { spirit-1 }

Meta-space is complementary to truly non-occupied space and occupied space. There is nothing else for Meta-space to be complementary too. If and when  you, are any of the the pooh-poph can identify another that would be complementary to Metas-space, please share. You or they never will, because ive already done the logical common sense critical thinking pathways for these three primary catagories.

It is not going to happen by any of you.

Is it similar to Plato's theory of knowledge and reality? Something to the effect that mind, knowledge, and abstract thought transcends physical reality.
1} Eternally existent and complementary   -- too 2 truly non-occupied space and 3 occupied space below--- Meta-space mind/intellect/concept and ego { spirit-1 }.

What part of that do you not grasp? Mind/intellect/knowledge and however many other synonyms we may choose to add.

Is beyond/Meta, ergo transcend may be a good synonym to use also.  Gravity and Dark energy are Meta-physical{ reality }. Meta-space is beyond occupied space reality and occupied space Gravity and Dark energy, as ive made clear for some ten years now. This rather simple to grasp, for those who choose logical, common sense, critical thinking.

Very rare here at DArt.
 
You also talk about outer and inner geodesics, which you seem to think is related to how the universe is shaped.

False. No where have I ever made such statements. Eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe is composed of myriad set of overlapping, and interfering quantum space-time tori. been stating that for some ten years, or more.

Seems that also think the universe is shaped like a torus?
Yeah, well good for them, I' not and never been one of those. You havent read of what Ive posted in thread or many others.

Some articles that I have read suggest that majority think the universe is flat.
that is seperate unrelated issue to actual geometric shape of our eternally existsent, finite, dynamic, occupied space Universe.

Some studies seem to think the universe is curved based on how light would travel differently on flat plane than on a curved surface.
The outer, dynamic, gravitational perimeter of Universe is of course curved, and undulating etc. LINK to rough idea of undulating surface of Universe. Been posting that for over 20 years now.

Complex-to-simple is title of this thread. Start with the greatest whole, my Cosmic Trinary Set and no parts can be excluded. Few grasp the simple because there too over educated and this leads them to think they know better than those of us  who use rather simple, logical, common sense, critical thinking.

I addressed this last time in post #25.  




#28
zedvictor4
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Eternally existent, side steps the impossible beginning.

Of course, a beginning cannot have a cause because the cause requires a cause.

Notions such as finite occupied space and externally existent are simple.

And ego is as ego does.


Nonetheless, a happy new year.

One more or one less trip around the Sun, depending upon how one chooses to look at it.
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#29
ebuc
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Eternally existent, side steps the impossible beginning.
Zed, you confuse initial set of circumstances --ergo the cyclic bing bang--- with some impossible something { occupied space }  from nothing { truly non-occupied spaced }. Why you would choose such a tack is always confounding to me. 

Of course, a beginning cannot have a cause because the cause requires a cause.
Occupied space from truly non-occupied space concept moots any disscussion of cause > effect > resultant

Notions such as finite occupied space and externally existent are simple.
Universe { (@) } is most complex set. 3a, 3b and 3c is the primary trinary sub-set of the one Universe. Simple

And ego is as ego does.
Thank  you Gumpy.  * I *  >>>>  IS >>> not even just IS >>>> IS >>>>> (@) eternally dynamic { undulating } LINK and other varied transformations. see my Cosmological scenarios thread that I never finnished the first scenario explanation.

Nonetheless, a happy new year.
I realized couple of days ago, my our true new year begins on our birthday.  We go four seasons --because of atmosphere and spin of planet--- as we orbit Sol., to our next new year on Earth
One more or one less trip around the Sun, depending upon how one chooses to look at it.
Perspective indeed. i'm finally beginning  to barely get my head around { not yet tho } speed-of-radiation from differrent observers. If you've not seen Sabine hossenfelders ' Does the Past Exist ' vid, --go to 2:30 LINK--- please check it out as her explanation of of time using a 45 degree angle { / } is interesting and it coincidentally is same as 4th-dimension diagonal { / } in Hyper-space

The complex Universe exists, if only as the Gravitational and Dark Energy field of nodal evnents on the surface space-tori,  coding of all that exists, or that can exist. i'm becoming more partial to the idea that our Universe is not truly expanding, rather, our perspective  changes due to every space-time tori of Universe changes.

It may be that, our sine-wave { /\/\/ } is reality  pops out from the inner set of surface nodal events associated with negative curvature of Dark Energy  )( ,

then our reality is moves toward the diametrically opposite set of surface nodal events of positive curvature of Gravity field (  ), then,

briefly ---because not sustain-able--  all of the sine-wave reality is in the Graviational field of events, the travels around in the geodesics ---1 >> 2p >> 4 >> 5p etc-- back to pop-out of Dark Energy field again and move toward the outer surface of all space-time tori again.  We only tune-in to the reality field and we have this sense of inflation and Dark Energy expanding our reality. 

Eternally doing so over and over and over etc.  Its just a thought


......1............enters..5p...here......7p.........enters here......11p.........Gravity field
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0-------------------^---------6----^---------------^-------------^-----------^--------reality
.................3p....^...................^.................^........9.........^.............^..........reality
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.........2p......^.......4....pops out of here ^....8.........10.....^...........^.........Dark Energy field







#30
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I don't know man, it may be just me, I wish I knew how my ego was blocking my ability to understand what you are saying.