-->
@Double_R
Like I said. The people who were not allowed to be heard in 2020 will be heard in 2023, and then they will "tell us so"
Trump Did Not Incite the January 6 Riot.
Posts
Total:
43
While I do agree that Trump's presence may have caused the January 6 riot, I do not agree that it was his fault or had intentions of doing it. You can't blame someone for other people using their name, as a way to wreak havoc.
Trump was such a good POTUS he's running again.
-->
@Double_R
The case however is quite simple. Trump spent months before the election telling his followers the election was going to be stolen, then on election night before the votes had been even counted declared victory. He then spent the following months amplifying every conspiracy theory under the sun continuing to rally his supporters until January 6th where he invited all of his followers to March onto the capital to “fight like hell, or you’re not going to have a country anymore”.
Actually, Trump literally told his fans, to "peacefully protest" down at the capitol.
This is where the MAGA cultists jump in; “but he said March peacefully!” which is of course complete bullshit. They showed up because they were pissed and ready to cause a ruckus. No one in their right mind heard that one sentence and thought “oh, I guess we’re not supposed to actually fight”. Trump understood this very well, which is why he said it, because he knew his followers would point to that one sentence to claim innocence. It’s called a false exculpatory, and it’s a classic tactic used by the mob to confuse the jury.
Well how do you know Trump was using this tactic? It's not bull, because he literally said peacefully protest.
It’s also absurd to tell people that their voice has been stolen from them by people who don’t care about them, and the remedy to that is to yell really loud.
So it's wrong to yell and peacefully protests?
Well both the left and right, have done it and it's an American right.
And if you need more evidence that the crowd was taking their cues from Trump just watch all of the video footage of the rioters themselves telling police officers that they were there on behalf of Trump and reading Trump’s tweets with a blowhorn to an animated crowd reacting to it.
For a guy who makes fun of Trump for making "conspiracy's" you really have a lot of your own.
At the end of the day you have the choice to ignore all of this no matter how obvious it is. And if that’s the case here’s one final thought experiment… imagine if in early November 2020 Trump had done what every losing presidential candidate before him did; concede the election, congratulated his opponent, and orchestrated an orderly transition. Just imagine. Do you seriously believe January 6th would have still happened?
Well, yes. There are a lot of supporters of Trump, who are not the most sane people in the world. But I could say the same for any president.
-->
@FLRW
During President Donald Trump's tenure in the White House, the national debt grew by some $7.8 trillion—or nearly 40 percent compared to the amount when former President Barack Obama. left office in January 2017. So you think Trump giving himself a big tax break was a good idea? Remember that the last smart republican president, Eisenhower, had a tax rate of 91 percent for the rich.
You can't compare the end of one president's term, to the whole presidency of another's. How much did the national debt grow under Obama?
Oh thats right.....8.6 trillion.
-->
@oromagi
And if your gonna go with a left leaning article to prove Trump is bad, then your gonna wanna work on more research.
The rioters weren’t taking their cues from anyone else, they were taking them from Trump. We know because they told us so.
Conspiracy?
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
You can't compare the end of one president's term, to the whole presidency of another's. How much did the national debt grow under Obama?
Oh thats right.....8.6 trillion.
That was over 8 years and after inheriting an imploding economy requiring the government to bail out the banks and the economy in general.
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Well how do you know Trump was using this tactic? It's not bull, because he literally said peacefully protest.
It’s basic common sense.
You seem to have missed the part where I explained, so I’ll try again; he spent months before a single vote had ever been cast telling his supporters the election was going to be stolen, he declared victory before the votes had even been counted, he spent months following the election telling his supporters the election was in the process of being stolen, and then he invited all of his supporters to the Capitol where, despite intelligence warnings being issued to him that there was likely to be violence, held a rally telling his supporters to “fight like hell”. Then, while all of this was going on, he sat and watched in the dining room while refusing to make a single phone call or lift a finger of any kind to stop what was happening. He didn’t put out the video telling them to leave till 3 hours later after everyone, including Fox News hosts pleaded with him to tell them to stop.
This isn’t complicated. 2+2=4
No president with an IQ above room temperature would not have known that such actions would potentially result in violence. There is a reason we had been using the word “dangerous” to describe them since Election Day.
No president who didn’t want violence would have continued to hold the rally given the intelligence that there was likely to be violence.
No president who didn’t want violence would have sat watching the riots unfold for 3 hours doing nothing.
No president who didn’t want violence would have tweeted an “I told you so” message as the riots were unfolding.
No president who didn’t want violence would have tweeted that his VP betrayed him while his VP sat in the Capitol as it was being attacked.
For him to stand up there in the middle of all this and say “peacefully protest” one time does not override all of this. What Trump did is a classic strategy that no rational person should need explained to them, but Trump’s personal attorney for ten years already has. He testified at length and confirmed in multiple interviews since how Trump operates, that he always throws in lines like this as a way of telling people what he really wants from them. These are mob tactics and his attorney became very familiar with his use of them over the decade he served him. But again, this is all common sense.
So it's wrong to yell and peacefully protests?
Let me try this again. Slowly.
If you tell someone that their voice has been stolen, the remedy to fix that cannot logically be to use their voice. That is self defeating as it is a logical contradiction.
We live in a democratic society, which means that we resolve our differences through persuasion. If Trump persuaded the American people to elect him and that was stolen, we no longer live in a democratic society. If we no longer live in a democratic society, the only remedy remaining to get your way is force.
You can’t assemble people and tell them that their only means remaining is force, and then throw one line into a speech to be peaceful and expect that anyone listening too drown out the rest of the speech and take that one line seriously. Read the damn transcript of his speech. The word “peacefully” does not fit with anything else he said that day. All of his supporters that day understood this. Why don’t you?
For a guy who makes fun of Trump for making "conspiracy's" you really have a lot of your own.
I deride Trump along with any individual who engages in conspiratorial thinking, which is notorious for its high concentration of classic logical fallacies.
Do you seriously believe January 6th would have still happened?Well, yes.
Then I have a very difficult time believing you are serious. Like I said, the Trump cultists who were there that day told us that they were there because of him, so you are just making up your own reality.
You seem to have missed the part where I explained, so I’ll try again; he spent months before a single vote had ever been cast telling his supporters the election was going to be stolen, he declared victory before the votes had even been counted, he spent months following the election telling his supporters the election was in the process of being stolen, and then he invited all of his supporters to the Capitol where, despite intelligence warnings being issued to him that there was likely to be violence, held a rally telling his supporters to “fight like hell”. Then, while all of this was going on, he sat and watched in the dining room while refusing to make a single phone call or lift a finger of any kind to stop what was happening. He didn’t put out the video telling them to leave till 3 hours later after everyone, including Fox News hosts pleaded with him to tell them to stop.
"The core of the defense team’s argument was that the former President’s rhetoric did not meet the criminal bar for incitement. His lawyers lingered on Democrats’ using as evidence Trump telling his supporters to “fight like hell” in his speech preceding the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, and they played reels of selectively edited video of Democrats saying the word “fight” to normalize Trump’s language. The false equivalency ignored the context of Trump’s incendiary comments, but seemed to resonate with some Republican Senators.
“The president’s lawyers blew the House managers’ case out of the water,” said Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson. “Showing up the hypocrisy and the First Amendment arguments, they just legally eviscerated” the Democrats’ legal team."
“The president’s lawyers blew the House managers’ case out of the water,” said Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson. “Showing up the hypocrisy and the First Amendment arguments, they just legally eviscerated” the Democrats’ legal team."
"For years, Democrats have gotten away with election fraud and weak Republicans. And that's what they are. There's so many weak Republicans. And we have great ones. Jim Jordan and some of these guys, they're out there fighting. The House guys are fighting. But it's, it's incredible.
Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
All they, all these people, don't get bored, don't get angry at me because you're going to get bored because it's so much.
The American people do not believe the corrupt, fake news anymore. They have ruined their reputation. But you know, it used to be that they'd argue with me. I'd fight. So I'd fight, they'd fight, I'd fight, they'd fight. Pop pop. You'd believe me, you'd believe them. Somebody comes out. You know, they had their point of view, I had my point of view, but you'd have an argument.
Now what they do is they go silent. It's called suppression and that's what happens in a communist country. That's what they do, they suppress. You don't fight with them anymore. Unless it's a bad story. They have a little bad story about me, they make it 10 times worse and it's a major headline.
The American people do not believe the corrupt, fake news anymore. They have ruined their reputation. But you know, it used to be that they'd argue with me. I'd fight. So I'd fight, they'd fight, I'd fight, they'd fight. Pop pop. You'd believe me, you'd believe them. Somebody comes out. You know, they had their point of view, I had my point of view, but you'd have an argument.
Now what they do is they go silent. It's called suppression and that's what happens in a communist country. That's what they do, they suppress. You don't fight with them anymore. Unless it's a bad story. They have a little bad story about me, they make it 10 times worse and it's a major headline.
"And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.
Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country.
And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.
So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give.
The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country."
Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country.
And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.
So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give.
The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country."
I think that it is safe to assume that using the context he was talking in, and the context clues in the article, that Trump was speaking about fighting in the political sense, not the physical sense.
No president with an IQ above room temperature would not have known that such actions would potentially result in violence. There is a reason we had been using the word “dangerous” to describe them since Election Day.
How would he have seen this coming exactly. I mean, how do you think Trump would know what his supporters would do, even though they've never done something this violent before. I think your opinion of Trump is blinding your facts. He claimed victory before the vote reading, and that proves what? That he's kind of cocky? Ok well how does that prove him inciting a riot in the capital.
And Jan. 6, White House footage shows police and FBI waving people in the capitol letting in the protesters, and not trying to stop them at all, even opening doors for them.
For him to stand up there in the middle of all this and say “peacefully protest” one time does not override all of this. What Trump did is a classic strategy that no rational person should need explained to them, but Trump’s personal attorney for ten years already has. He testified at length and confirmed in multiple interviews since how Trump operates, that he always throws in lines like this as a way of telling people what he really wants from them. These are mob tactics and his attorney became very familiar with his use of them over the decade he served him. But again, this is all common sense.
It really irritates me, when normal people say that this stuff is just common sense. If it really was common sense, then Trump would have been charged immediately, but no, they had to have an investigation.
If you tell someone that their voice has been stolen, the remedy to fix that cannot logically be to use their voice. That is self defeating as it is a logical contradiction.
So, they are just supposed to be quiet and take the fraud, and let the government take over?
Now in no way am I supporting the people who rioted the capital, but the right to free speech is a thing.
We live in a democratic society, which means that we resolve our differences through persuasion. If Trump persuaded the American people to elect him and that was stolen, we no longer live in a democratic society. If we no longer live in a democratic society, the only remedy remaining to get your way is force.
Actually, this is a common misconception, we actually live in a democratic republic.
"The United States government is a complex entity known as a democratic republic. This essentially means that the government operates on the principles of both a republic and a democracy. In other words, the nation functions upon principles that are common in both republics and democracies. The American Heritage Dictionary defines a republic as “a political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.” The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines democracy as “a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.” In other words, in a republic there are a group of citizens elected or appointed to represent the people, but with a democracy the power is theoretically in the hands of usually all voting citizens. A democratic republic is a mixture of the two."
You can’t assemble people and tell them that their only means remaining is force, and then throw one line into a speech to be peaceful and expect that anyone listening too drown out the rest of the speech and take that one line seriously. Read the damn transcript of his speech. The word “peacefully” does not fit with anything else he said that day. All of his supporters that day understood this. Why don’t you?
He actually talks about peace a lot in that speech. I should know, I have read it over many times.
I deride Trump along with any individual who engages in conspiratorial thinking, which is notorious for its high concentration of classic logical fallacies.
So, you make fun of Trump, for making up conspiracies, while one of the reasons you think Trump incited the Jan. 6 riot, was because he was looking at people weird?
Thats not a conspiracy at all...........
Let's just run a quick scorecard on Trump v. Democrats:
Trump is not a Russian puppet: Trump - 1 Democrats - 0
Trump was not behind January 6: Trump - 2 Democrats - 0
Trump did not steal secrets and nuclear codes: Trump - 3 Democrats - 0
There is a cabal that seeks to destroy the country: Trump - 4 Democrats - 0
Lockdowns are not effective to stop the spread of the virus: Trump - 5 Democrats - 0
COVID-19 was manufactured in a lab: Trump - 6 Democrats - 0
Putin will attack if I am out of office: Trump - 7 Democrats - 0
They want Gas at $5 to $7 a gallon: Trump - 8 Democrats - 0
UV light kills COVID-19: Trump - 9 Democrats - 0
Ivermectin is an effective treatment against COVID-19: Trump - 10 Democrats - 0
Let's tally these up:
Trump, 10 points
Democrats, the media, and the "fact checkers", 0 points
So, it seems to me that Trump was a damn good president for the 4 years he was in office.
Not only was everything he said literally proven true, but now everyone knows it.
Lockdowns are not effective to stop the spread of the virus:
Don't know if I agree with this one entirely, but yea good point.
But let's give the Democrats some credit to, otherwise we look biased.
Democrats did make a good point in saying that Trump says some questionable, and out of the water things. I agree with this, because Trump has a big ego. But just because of that flaw, that doesn't make him a bad president.
He made significant progress with the growing of our economy and growing of our country.
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
I am rating facts vs myths and revealing how MOST of the myths were from ONE SIDE of the political isle.
But now that Republicans took over the house, they have begun to lie. So we'll see what the landscape looks like in a few years.