God exists, and I Can Prove It.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

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BrotherD.Thomas
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@YouFound_Lxam

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YouFound_Lxam, who wants to be Bible dumber than Miss Tradesecret,

IF YOU DON'T RESPOND TO THIS POST TO YOU, THEN I WILL TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THAT YOU ACCEPT IT'S ENTIRE CONTENT!


Listen, there is a time when you graciously have to throw in the towel of defeat in this thread of yours, okay? There are so many members that have shown your outright Bible stupidity relating to your topic of "God exists and I can prove it" that we have lost count, AND, that you have yet to prove beyond a reasonable doubt!

As in your other totally inept thread relating to the LGBTQ community, you were Bible Slapped Silly®️ in this thread as well.  Therefore,  you should just accept the fact that your Bible ineptness and stupidity is taking you no where! Whereas, I told you to just close that thread down to save yourself from further embarrassment as Jesus watches you make a Bible fool of yourself (Hebrews 4:13).  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8377/post-links/363487

As the ONLY true Christian upon this esteemed Religion forum, I have learned to accept the FACT that our Jesus as God is an outright brutal serial killer, especially of innocent infants and children, as I have shown ad infinitum, and where you have ran away from this Biblical axiom.

The only way to accept that our serial killer God Jesus exists, is by FAITH, where we want Him to exist in the first place, so He does, GET IT?   This proposition prevents even the pseudo-christian like you from turning yourself into a contortion as a pretzel to try in vain to prove Jesus as God exists, do you understand Bible fool troll?  Sure you do.


NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "YOUFOUND_LXAM" THAT HAS YET TO PROVE BY HIMSELF, OTHER THAN WITH HIS WEAK "OPINIONS,"  THAT OUR BRUTAL SERIAL KILLER JESUS EXISTS AS GOD, WILL BE ... ?

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YouFound_Lxam
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Ok buddy. 
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@Stephen
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Don't you mean gorging and drinking oneself senseless and watching endless crap on TV day.
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@zedvictor4
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@YouFound_Lxam


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YouFound_Lxam, who wants to be Bible Dumber than Miss Tradesecret,

Praise your enlightenment!  You accepted the total contents in my post #511 to you where I said you are an inept Bible fool, and that you should shut this thread of yours down to save you from further embarrassment, where your response was: "okay buddy" in your post #512!  See, that wasn't that hard to realize that you are the #2 Bible stupid fool on this Religion Forum!  Good call Youfound_Lxam!

Therefore, you won't feel so bad from this time forward when I personally Bible Slap you Silly®️ or other members take you to the cleaners because your knowledge of the Bible as continually shown is ZERO!  


NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "YOUFOUND_LXAM" THAT FINALLY ADMITS THAT HE IS BIBLE STUPID, WILL BE ... ?

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BrotherD.Thomas
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@YouFound_Lxam


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YouFound_Lxam, that wants to be "Bible Dumber" than Miss Tradesecret,

ENOUGH of your Bible ignorance and stupidity!   You have been made the Bible fool in this thread of yours ad infinitum, AND, in your debate as well on your topic changed to: "God most likely exists" By CONCEDING the debate to prove this FACT in round 2 as shown in my post #23 in this link:


Remember Bible fool, Jesus' inspired words DO NOT like stupid pseudo-christians like you, therefore you are GUILTY of the following passage:  "Always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3:7)


NEXT BIBLE DUMBFOUNDED PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "YOUFOUND_LXAM" THAT FINALLY REALIZES THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS BIBLICALLY TALKING ABOUT, WILL BE ... ?
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22 days later

amandragon01
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@YouFound_Lxam
1: The Singularity

Many scientists today call use the term singularity to represent what they believe to be the big bang. Now before I go any further, I just want to point out that I do agree with science, and in fact it does prove gods' existence.

Ok back to the singularity.

We hear from scientists that the singularity, means something that popped into existence from nothing. If nothing existed at the start of time, then nothing would be here now. It is impossible for something to pop into existence from nothing. The only way for something to come into existence from nothing, is if something, or someone puts it there.
This assumes that the singularity came from nothing, do we have any evidence for this or is it just speculation? Or what the properties of nothing would be? Or for that matter how we can be certain that something can't come from nothing? It seems to me discussions in this area are highly speculative.

2: Design Has to Have a Designer

When you see the various aspects of nature, like birds, dogs, trees, and all of nature itself, and all of the specific roles they play you have to wonder how they got like that. We as humans try to copy nature sometimes with the way that we use technology, aerodynamics etc
We design from what we've seen in nature because we are intelligent and learn how nature works from watching nature. How does this suggest that nature is the product of an intellect?

We see parts of our body that are some of the most advanced things we know of like for instance, the brain. We try to copy and mimic those things by making fake arms and computers and things like that, but we never even get close to a direct copy.
Nature is complex, too complex for humanity to understand or emulate. My question is, why does complexity suggest design?

Now this all goes back to the question; well, where does design originate? We'll let me give you an example:
Unknown true, but an unknown isn't evidence for anything.

If you have all the parts of a watch in a box, and they aren't put together, you could shake that box forever, but you would never get a watch. Now the human brain for example is way more advanced than a watch, so do you really think that life was just created like that, all shaken up?
Above you said you agree with science, does that include evolution? If so then the brain developed through a process not randomness. If you don't accept evolution, then do you accept the idea that a living thing passes on characteristics from generation to generation?

3. What Created Life?

Scientists use the term Law of Biogenesis to explain how life works. The way it is explained, is like this:

Law of Biogenesis: "In this material, natural world, life comes from previously existing life of its own kind.

Now scientist nowadays say well, life actually comes from random chemicals and elements. Yet every biological experiment we have done with chemicals and elements, has not produced life or any actual signs of life at all.

So, if life didn't arise from non-living chemicals, then how did life arise? The only explanation is a supernatural being.
Biogenesis isn't a law at all. It has no underlying hypothesis as to why life can't form from non-life. Without an hypothesis or any way to test hypothesis there can be no scientific law. Scientists can show lipids that create microspheres that begin replicating through chemistry alone. They have found a couple of ways RNA can form and we have examples of amino acids.

That said, it is true that we haven't yet found examples of life arising from non-life, yet that we haven't seen a thing, isn't proof that a thing can't happen, as such there is no way for us to be certain that life can or cannot come from nothing, though the above seems to suggest that under the right circumstances all the necessary building blocks would be there. This line of reasoning again proves nothing.

4. Moral Law

If some things are objectively morally wrong, and some things are objectively morally right, then there must be a God. 

We don't say that when a dog stole a bone from another dog, that dog broke a moral, law no we don't. But we do when it comes to humans. So, at what point did moral law become important. 
Prove morality is objective. I certainly have my moral codes and they are important to me, they are not however objective.

The second part is interesting, but I would argue that is as much a matter of human social development as theology. In terms of objective morality, I find myself wondering why an objective moral law only applies to humans? I'd think a subjective moral law agreed upon by humans would be more likely to focus exclusively on morals. Again this seems inconclusive as evidence of a gods existence.

5. Human Reasoning

We humans have the nature to reason, and to wonder why things exist, why we exist, and that's why we have science. Why are we the only species that does this? Animals don't wonder why they exist, they just do? What gave us that need to find out? God did that's who.
This (like several of the above) is begging the question. I don't know as anyone has the answer to this question. However, even if there is no other correct hypothesis this doesn't support yours. Can you show any way in which human intelligence requires a creator to form?

IlDiavolo
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Youve got to first define what god is, then you prove it. But as far as I concerned, the gods of religions are unprovable. In general, religions are like fairy tales.
amandragon01
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ok here is another argument for God's existence.

I have one question for all of you. Just answer this one question, and I will continue with my argument.

Imagine I draw a circle on a white board. 
The space inside the circle represents all knowledge. 
It contains Physics, Chemistry, etc. 
Even knowledge that we are still trying to find, exists in this circle.

Now I ask you this question. If I gave you a pen, and asked you to fill in how much knowledge you think you have/know in the circle, how much of the circle would you fill in? 

Just answer me that.
I'd be willing to say that I can't answer this, because I don't know how much there is for us to know. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if we'd need a very, very fine pen to put a small enough dot.

This however doesn't argue for the existence of god. That we have limited knowledge supports neither the claim of gods existence nor the claim of gods non-existence. In what way is the amount of knowledge we possess evidence of gods existence? The fact that we can't currently know if a god does or even could exist seems to do little to prove a god does exist.
amandragon01
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Ok, let's start from my first standpoint, the Big Bang. 


"The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today."

Let's start with this argument and then we can work our way up to the others.

"Around 13.7 billion years ago, everything in the entire universe was condensed in an infinitesimally small singularity, a point of infinite denseness and heat.  Suddenly, an explosive expansion began, ballooning our universe outwards faster than the speed of light. This was a period of cosmic inflation that lasted mere fractions of a second — about 10^-32 of a second, according to physicist Alan Guth’s 1980 theory that changed the way we think about the Big Bang forever."

They don't explain how, "Suddenly, an explosive expansion began...". They just state that it happened. No scientist to this day has factual evidence of where that mass of energy came to be, and why it suddenly exploded. 

If you truly believe the Big Bang was purely based in science, then answer this question. 

Question one: What caused the "infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched"
Answer One: Unknown. That however doesn't suggest a god. That we don't know the origins of the universe doesn't in any way support the claim of a creator. What it does is leave us with an unknown and possible claims to try and explain that. What you present is a god of the gaps fallacy. Essentially you're seeing a gap in our knowledge and trying to fill it with an unsupported claim. Counter question: What evidence is there to show that it was a god that caused the big bang?
amandragon01
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@YouFound_Lxam
We evolved as a tribal species with feelings of empathy for the members within our group, 
I do want to point this out to you as it proves what I am saying.

Why did we evolve with empathy, and not murderous intent. What force made us like this and not the other way around.
A good question. If my understanding of evolution is close to the mark (and as a layman it may not be), then I'd say the answer is the ability to survive and procreate. Humans are more able to survive and reproduce when in social groups, we can more efficiently protect ourselves, better use our exceptional ability to learn and create and better gather resources when we're living in social groups. Now those who have murderous, destructive and anti-social tendencies were more likely to be excluded from the social group or punished by it, making those with more developed empathy and less violent tendencies more likely to survive. Evolution at work.

Again, I don't claim to be anything other than a layman on the topic, if my understanding of evolution is inaccurate, please feel free to point me to sources where I can learn more about the subject.
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@YouFound_Lxam
We evolved as a tribal species with feelings of empathy for the members within our group, 
I do want to point this out to you as it proves what I am saying.

Why did we evolve with empathy, and not murderous intent. What force made us like this and not the other way around.
The issue is that you're not proving anything. You haven't proven that the big bang needed to be initiated by an intelligence. You haven't proven that life required an intelligence to begin. You haven't proven that morality as it exists is the product of a god. Essentially your entire claim is built around pointing to things and saying 'we don't know how that can be, so it must be god'. That is the god of the gaps fallacy.

Why does the origin of the universe need to be a god? Why does our not knowing prove your claim correct?
Why does life require a divine origin? We can show that processes in nature can develop complexity, so how does that prove god?
How can you show objective morality? Why does the morality shared by most humans require a god?
Tarik
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@amandragon01
How can you show objective morality? 
Semantically speaking morality is objective, because objective is synonymous with just which is by definition based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair. Google is free my guy 😉
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@Tarik
I wouldn't define objective as synonymous with just.

Just would be defined as:

Exactly

Based on or behaving according to what is morally right or fair

Very recently

Whereas Objective is defined as

Something that you plan to do or achieve.

based on real facts and not influenced by personal beliefs or feelings.

For being just to be objective it needs to be fact that what you're doing is morally right and fair. Otherwise you're acting on what you believe to be morally right and fair, which by definition isn't objective.
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@amandragon01
😔 When I said Google is free, I said that with the expectation that you wouldn’t just take my word at face value, under the definition of objective look up synonyms.
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@amandragon01
As I have told Tarik previously.

All thought functions and processes are essentially the same.

The internal electro-chemical acquisition, storage and manipulation of sensory input.

As such, consequent data is always subjective.

In other words, objective morality is just made up stuff, like everything else we make up.


Whether or not data output relates to an external reality is a curious situation.

Because our whole existence, despite sensory capability, is based upon an internal simulation of an assumed reality.

As I always say, I think therefore I am, is as good as it gets.
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@Tarik
Yet my point stands. By definition for something to be just one must be objective,  yet being just doesn't necessarily mean one is being objective. I can see an argument for the two being similar,  but not to the degree of them being synonymous. If you can show that your definition of fair and moral is factually accurate then sure, it's the same as objective, otherwise one's idea of just is subjective and not objective as it's being based on a belief and not a fact. 
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@amandragon01
But you can believe in facts, no?
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@Tarik
Sure, I think people have believed in stranger things.
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@amandragon01
Then how do you explain why Google listed just as a synonym for objective?
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@Best.Korea
God will be proven any time now.
I don't know about deities but I'd certainly believe that eventually we will be able to prove there's something after death. Once spirit is verifiable it'll be much easier to say deities exist.