God exists, and I Can Prove It.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

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Stephen
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@YouFound_Lxam
@sidewalker

YouFound_Lxam, wrote: Proving gods' existence is a much harder argument to argue, and I should have changed my forum title to Disproving Scientists Claims about the origins of the Universe. 

Thank you for actually having an intellectual argument with me, and this just proves that unlike some people, I actually pay attention to people's arguments and work off of it. 

You have proven the argument I am making impossible with the evidence that I have. But I am sure with time and resources I will be able to prove gods' existence. 

So then your argument should end right there. Because you don't have one. And  the bold claim made in your title has been proven to be false.


YouFound_Lxam,There are many ways to prove gods' existence,

And you haven't offered a single one.

YouFound_Lxam, wrote: God exists, and I Can Prove It.

Well now you know you can't. That didn't age well, did it.


YouFound_Lxam, wrote: I believe that given in
Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." that for God, it was 7 days,

And why do you take Peter literally?       Peter was called Satan by Jesus and Peter hijacked the early church from Jesus' brother James.

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@YouFound_Lxam
I do want to point this out to you as it proves what I am saying.

Why did we evolve with empathy, and not murderous intent. What force made us like this and not the other way around.

I thought my post was self explanatory on this, but here it is again, I will go over it.
 
“As to morality, morality was selected by evolution in order to promote cooperation and smooth social interactions. We evolved as a tribal species with feelings of empathy for the members within our group, we would seek to protect each other and share any food acquired.  Also by cooperating we could hunt large animals and defend ourselves against heavily armed predators. In terms of evolution all this helped to maximise our fitness to survive as it placed us at the top of the food chain, which in terms of survival is about as good as it gets.”
 
The main point is that through empathy which gave us a sense of belonging and caring for other members of our tribal group, we were able cooperate and by working together this enabled us to hunt large animals and defend ourselves against predators thereby  maximising our chances of survival.
 
And this is how evolution works by “survival of the fittest” or what I think is a better way of looking at it “extinction of the unfit.” It is a mechanism that operates without any divine intervention which was why it caused much outrage within the Christian community when Darwin first proposed it.
 
You ask “why did we evolve with empathy, and not murderous intent.” There is an element of irony to that question. We evolved with feelings of empathy to those within our group; unfortunately it doesn’t always extend to those we perceive to be outside our group. This has lead to hostility towards those we see as being different and has resulted in thing like racism, nationalism, gang warfare, religious and political conflict and a lot of murderous intent. This trait is also possibly the result of evolution, as survival of the tribal group was paramount and if resources were limited then conflict with other groups could be necessary so that one’s own group would by the fittest to survive.
 
Sidewalker
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I only use the bible for evidence in this case, because you quoted from the bible as well. 

You don't have to believe the 7 days of creation are literal 7 days to be a Christian.

Well if you are using the bible as evidence, it  states "days".   But then you say one doesn't have to believe the bible evidence literally.

You are not making things easy for yourself are you.

Like your profile, the bible is full of holes. You need to go away and have a rethink before digging any deeper.
If true intelligence involves the ability to view and understanding widely different things from multiple different perspectives, the ability to recognize connections, an aptitude for grasping a wide range of truths, relationships, and meanings, and the capacity for abstract and symbolic thought, then it follows logically that the insistent demands of our spiritual detractors that Genesis be understood and explained literally is an unintelligent claim.
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@Sidewalker

If true intelligence involves the ability to view and understanding widely different things from multiple different perspectives, the ability to recognize connections, an aptitude for grasping a wide range of truths, relationships, and meanings, and the capacity for abstract and symbolic thought, then it follows logically that the insistent demands of our spiritual detractors that Genesis be understood and explained literally is an unintelligent claim.

Ok so you can explain the intelligence behind this classical mess for us then.


Is there  only one god according to the bible?

Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Deuteronomy 4:35The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Deuteronomy 4:39
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. Deuteronomy 6:4
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me. Deuteronomy 32:39
The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. 1 Kings 18:39

I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 43:10
I am the LORD, and there is none else ... There is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isaiah 44:8
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. Isaiah 45:5-6
There is no God else beside me ... There is none beside me. Isaiah 45:21
I am God, and there is none else: I am God, and there is none like me. Isaiah 46:9

The Lord our God is one Lord. Mark 12:29
There is one God; and there is none other but he. Mark 12:32
That they might know thee the only true God. John 17:3
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him. 1 Corinthians 8:6
There are several gods.
In the book of Genesis, God used a plural pronoun to refer to himself (herself, itself, or themselves), implying that there is more than one god up there.

And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22
Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7
The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods.

For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7
O give thanks unto the God of gods. Psalm 136:2
No other god is like him.

Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8
He is better than the other gods.

Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. Exodus 20:3-5
What God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works? Deuteronomy 3:24
Great is our God above all gods. 2 Chronicles 2:5
Our Lord is above all gods. Psalm 135:5
The other gods will die someday.
The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11
The Hebrew God judges the other gods.

And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments. Numbers 33:4
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82:1
And will punish them.
I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods. Jeremiah 46:25The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth. Zephaniah 2:11
He is a jealous God (whose name is Jealous). So he forbids us to "go after" or worship any of his competitors.

For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you.) Deuteronomy 6:14-15
Thou shalt not ... go after other gods to serve them. Deuteronomy 28:14
If you give God glory, he'll go easy on you and all your other gods.

Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. 1 Samuel 6:5And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. Jeremiah 25:6
But you must fear God more than all the other gods.

The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. 1 Chronicles 16:25For the Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 96:4
Don't sacrfifice to any of the other gods. (Or God will kill you.)
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus 22:20
Don't put any of the other gods before him.

Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Deuteronomy 5:7
Don't make a covenant with them.Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. Exodus 23:32
Don't burn incense to them.I will utter my judgments against them ... who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods. Jeremiah 1:16
Or even mention their names.Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Exodus 23:13
Put away your father's gods.Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. Joshua 24:14
And stay away from the god named Chemosh.Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? Judges 11:24
But don't revile the other gods.Thou shalt not revile the gods. Exodus 22:28

Other people served other gods (as did Abraham's father Terah).Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. Joshua 24:2
And a witch once saw gods going up to heaven.And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 1 Samuel 28:13

Always remember that people are gods too. (Jesus used this when he was accused of making himself a god.)I have said, Ye are gods. Psalm 82:6The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:33-34
And the three gods in heaven are really only one god. (Don't worry about this one too much. It's a mystery.)For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


When you are ready.

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I feel it is safer to say
"God exists and I can prove it...to myself and others who already agree with me."

trying to prove a function of faith without a threshhold of proof in common is a fools errand, and it is (IMHO) arrogant to think that anyone can definitively prove a personal proposition to anyone else if they don't aready agree to the proposition's underlying validity.
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@YouFound_Lxam


.
YouFound_Lxam,

This post is addressing your totally Bible ignorance in your feeble post #25!

YOUR DECEIVING QUOTE ONCE AGAIN!!!: "First off, why do you assume that I am pseudo-Chistian? I never stated that I am, and in fact said the opposite. I am a Non-Denominational Christian. Get your facts right before you start spewing out lies."

I can assume you are a "pseudo-christian" because of your Bible stupidity in NOT understanding your Jesus inspired Big Bang as I have shown you at your embarrassment in my post #23!  LOL!  Furthermore, whether you are a non-denominational, only on Sundays, or when "cherry picking" Bible passages to support your weak opinions, Christian, YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN as even your lame biography so states! Therefore, I did not spew out lies, get it Bible fool?


YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE STUPIDITY HAS NO BOUNDS QUOTE: "Secondly, I do believe in science, and the timeframe of the big bang is supported in the bible, "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day" in 2 Peter 3:8-9.

Listen up, when you use the "Day Age Theory" for Creation, you are proffering that the time frame of the Big Bang in Genesis 1 and 2 is only 6000 years in a 6 day Creation, and where comically you propose that on the 7th day, Jesus as god, RESTED for a thousand years!  ROFLOL!  Furthermore Bible fool, you also say that Adam hung around for TWO THOUSAND YEARS before God created Eve from one of his ribs?  (Genesis 2:18-22) You "Day Age Theory" does not work for the Creation stories, understood?  Are you a comedian from Saturday Night Live comedy show? LOL!


So, how long are you going to be running away from my post #23 where the Bible states with specificity that the earth as it is now, and the universe, is approximately 6000 years old?  Are you that SCARED and NERVOUS to address it in front of the membership?  Do you need help from another Bible fool equal to you? Explain your RUNAWAY status!  BEGIN:


YOUR EMBARRASSING COMEDY OF ERRORS CONTINUES WITH THIS QUOTE:  "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." that for God, it was 7 days, but for the human interpretation of it, science explains what it looked like for us. God created all of it, but we witnessed it in a different way than he did.” 

1.  First thing Bible fool, creation was 6 DAYS, because Jesus as our serial killer God RESTED upon the 7th day, understood Bible inept fool?

2.  Secondly, which contradicting Creation narrative are you referring to, Genesis 1 or 2?  

3. Thirdly, even if you use your out of context "Day Age Theory," that only takes 6000 years off of the total time of the earth and universe existed, which goes directly against the dinosaurs existing 66 million years ago, GET IT BIBLE DUMBASS?

4. Then if you haven't removed one foot to insert the other in your comical presentation, you state that "we" actually witnessed the Creation narrative? Huh? LOL!


OMG, Jesus’ inspired true words and I are going to have a great time with your outright Bible ignorance and stupidity, thank you!

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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
@YouFound_Lxam

.
Stephen,

Are the esteemed moderators of this Religion Forum playing a joke upon us in letting the ever so Bible dumbfounded YouFound_Lxam create a thread within this forum?  As if Miss Tradesecret wasn't funny enough with her Bible ineptness, then this  YouFound_Lxam arrives to make us laugh even harder spewing forth his opinions which are like Miss Tradesecrets, instead of learning Bible axioms!

I am sure that you've noticed that Miss Tradesecret is no where to be found in her 4 days of being gone within this forum as shown in the following link, where again, she made a Bible fool of herself: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/359318  I am hoping that she is okay in health, and will soon return for me to easily Bible Slap her Silly®️ again like I had to do to wake her up to her Bible stupidity with this post of mine herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/359341

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@rosends

.
resends,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE THAT WILL COME BACK TO BITE YOU!: "God exists and I can prove it...to myself and others who already agree with me."

Again, in using your quote above, does your Hebrew clan agree in FACT that we Christians stole your serial killer Yahweh God and made Him into our Jesus as God of the New Testament, since there is only one God to being with, AND, that you don't accept Jesus as God?  

"Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." (1 Corinthians 8:6)
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@Elliott
@YouFound_Lxam


Elliott,

Your post #32 was very clear and precise to the Bible fool YouFound_Lxam, wow!  Let's see if he can wipe all that egg off his face in him trying to respond!

.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
I am sure that you've noticed that Miss Tradesecret is no where to be found in her 4 days 

Indeed. I did think that the Reverend has settled on the customary three days in the tomb Jesus style, but it seems he has gone for it Lazarus style and decided on a four day sleep instead.


and then this  YouFound_Lxam arrives to make us laugh even harder spewing forth his opinions which are like Miss Tradesecrets, instead of learning Bible axioms!

They must be clones. The Reverend was forever attempting to put the onus on the atheist to prove god doesn't exist using all kinds of backdoor approaches.


Sidewalker
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The trolls have arrived.
Stephen
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@Sidewalker
The trolls have arrived.

Well I will take it that you do not want to take on this biblical problem using your own biblical "intellect." 

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@Sidewalker
The trolls have arrived
They never leave. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Taking what you said, and thinking about it, my evidence and claims have only disproven the scientists that claim thing just came to be.
This is nothing but a strawman.

Scientists are not claiming the universe popped into existence from nothing or “just came to be”. Once again, Big Bang cosmology *begins* at the point of the Big Bang because that is as far back as we have been able to scientifically prove.  There is no consensus regarding what or even if anything preceded it.

One of the many differences between science and religion is that science is perfectly comfortable with “I don’t know” as an answer. 
Sidewalker
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If true intelligence involves the ability to view and understanding widely different things from multiple different perspectives, the ability to recognize connections, an aptitude for grasping a wide range of truths, relationships, and meanings, and the capacity for abstract and symbolic thought, then it follows logically that the insistent demands of our spiritual detractors that Genesis be understood and explained literally is an unintelligent claim.

Ok so you can explain the intelligence behind this classical mess for us then.


Is there  only one god according to the bible?

Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Deuteronomy 4:35The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Deuteronomy 4:39
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. Deuteronomy 6:4
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me. Deuteronomy 32:39
The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. 1 Kings 18:39

I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 43:10
I am the LORD, and there is none else ... There is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isaiah 44:8
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. Isaiah 45:5-6
There is no God else beside me ... There is none beside me. Isaiah 45:21
I am God, and there is none else: I am God, and there is none like me. Isaiah 46:9

The Lord our God is one Lord. Mark 12:29
There is one God; and there is none other but he. Mark 12:32
That they might know thee the only true God. John 17:3
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him. 1 Corinthians 8:6
There are several gods.
In the book of Genesis, God used a plural pronoun to refer to himself (herself, itself, or themselves), implying that there is more than one god up there.

And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22
Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7
The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods.

For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7
O give thanks unto the God of gods. Psalm 136:2
No other god is like him.

Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8
He is better than the other gods.

Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. Exodus 20:3-5
What God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works? Deuteronomy 3:24
Great is our God above all gods. 2 Chronicles 2:5
Our Lord is above all gods. Psalm 135:5
The other gods will die someday.
The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11
The Hebrew God judges the other gods.

And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments. Numbers 33:4
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82:1
And will punish them.
I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods. Jeremiah 46:25The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth. Zephaniah 2:11
He is a jealous God (whose name is Jealous). So he forbids us to "go after" or worship any of his competitors.

For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you.) Deuteronomy 6:14-15
Thou shalt not ... go after other gods to serve them. Deuteronomy 28:14
If you give God glory, he'll go easy on you and all your other gods.

Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. 1 Samuel 6:5And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. Jeremiah 25:6
But you must fear God more than all the other gods.

The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. 1 Chronicles 16:25For the Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 96:4
Don't sacrfifice to any of the other gods. (Or God will kill you.)
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus 22:20
Don't put any of the other gods before him.

Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Deuteronomy 5:7
Don't make a covenant with them.Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. Exodus 23:32
Don't burn incense to them.I will utter my judgments against them ... who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods. Jeremiah 1:16
Or even mention their names.Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Exodus 23:13
Put away your father's gods.Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. Joshua 24:14
And stay away from the god named Chemosh.Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? Judges 11:24
But don't revile the other gods.Thou shalt not revile the gods. Exodus 22:28

Other people served other gods (as did Abraham's father Terah).Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. Joshua 24:2
And a witch once saw gods going up to heaven.And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 1 Samuel 28:13

Always remember that people are gods too. (Jesus used this when he was accused of making himself a god.)I have said, Ye are gods. Psalm 82:6The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:33-34
And the three gods in heaven are really only one god. (Don't worry about this one too much. It's a mystery.)For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


When you are ready.
It would be futile to try to explain the complex ideas associated with spiritual transcendence to a mind too unintelligent to conceptually grasp anything deeper than surface level literalism.  I’d probably have a better chance of success teaching my dog to play chess.
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@Sidewalker
Stephen wrote: Ok so you can explain the intelligence behind this classical mess for us then.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8271-god-exists-and-i-can-prove-it?page=2&post_number=34


Sidewalker wrote: It would be futile to try to explain the complex ideas associated with spiritual transcendence to a mind too unintelligent to conceptually grasp anything deeper than surface level literalism. 
So that will be a- no-, then.




Sidewalker
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Stephen wrote: Ok so you can explain the intelligence behind this classical mess for us then.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8271-god-exists-and-i-can-prove-it?page=2&post_number=34


Sidewalker wrote: It would be futile to try to explain the complex ideas associated with spiritual transcendence to a mind too unintelligent to conceptually grasp anything deeper than surface level literalism. 
So that will be a- no-, then.
I guess I shouldn't have used such big words, yes, that would be a "no".

I'm sorry, but it's just too far over your head.
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@YouFound_Lxam
You don't have to believe the 7 days of creation are literal 7 days to be a Christian.
No, you certainly don't. but there is a very interesting way of looking at it differently:

Genesis 1 recapitulates the story of the creation of external reality in only thirty-one sentences, these 31 sentences provide a rather remarkable correspondence to modern scientific theory.  Among our spiritual detractors, it is fashionable to challenge these thirty-one sentences as if the Bible were a science textbook and point to any missing details or contradictions between science and these thirty-one sentences as if this renders the truth found in the Bible invalid.  This contrived pseudo-intellectual approach to biblical analysis not only betrays a rather irrational approach to analysis of sacred texts, it also tends to betray a complete lack of understanding of both science and faith.

The question as to whether the universe was created in six days or fifteen plus billion years is based on jumping from one frame of reference to another and then asserting that the associated contradiction proves the Bible is not true. If we consider what science has learned about time in the 3500 years since Genesis was written to be valid, then we must stay within that frame of reference to make any meaningful statement about the comparison between six twenty four hour days and fifteen plus billion years.

Let's stay within the scientific frame of reference and look deeper than the superficial way that this challenge is typically presented and actually examine what science has learned about time, and see how our modern understanding of time relates to the 31 sentences that recapitulate the story of physical creation in the first book of the Hebrew Bible. I’m going to briefly present an analysis of the subject by Gerald Schroeder, who is a world-renowned physicist and author.

As far as time is concerned, modern cosmological theory is based on the General Theory of Relativity, a theory that has been experimentally validated to the point of being accepted by science as fact. The General Theory of relativity is explicitly ontological, it tells us that space, time, matter, and energy are intimately related, and it tells us that the words space, time, matter and energy are referential to relationships rather than things. Space and time are not absolute and uniform; they are relative to a frame of reference, and from our human frame of reference, since the creation of the universe in what we call the “Big Bang” the time/space continuum has been expanding.

Modern cosmology has quantified the data to provide us with an understanding of the relationship of time "from the beginning" to time as we experience it "now" within our current frame of reference. The General Theory provides a mathematical framework that allows us to quantify the expansion of the space/time continuum relative to our frame of reference.

What science tells us is that from its inception the universe expanded rapidly and as the universe got bigger, time expanded exponentially, and therefore from our frame of reference this exponential relationship is inverted. From today’s frame of reference, each time the universe doubled in time and space, from our frame of reference the perception of time is halved. Scientific theory tells us that the initial moment, the point at which the relationship we refer to with the word time began, is the moment that matter precipitated out of energy, time began when the dynamics of heat and expansion brought the temperature of the universe down to the point at which matter formed and therefore the relationship we call time began, this moment is referred to by science as the temperature of quark confinement. As far as relative frames of reference are concerned, the General Theory calculates the initial ratio of time from our frame of reference to the frame of reference of the beginning as the ratio between quark confinement (10.9 times 10 to the twelfth power Kelvin) to the temperature of the universe today (2.73 degrees Kelvin). From that starting point we have an initial ratio that from the beginning frame of reference expands exponentially as time proceeds and from our frame of reference, contracts exponentially.

What science tells us is that from the frame of reference of the beginning of time, in the Big Bang explosion of pure energy, a single twenty four hour day would by now, have stretched or expanded in such a way that it would be measured as eight billion years from today’s frame of reference. Calculating a second twenty four hour day from that beginning frame of reference and using the same algorithmic time calculations of the General Theory we find that a second twenty four hour day would be measured within today’s frame of reference as four billion years, a third would be two billion, a fourth would be one billion, a fifth would be measured as a half billion, and a six would be measured as a quarter billion years. Add these six twenty four hour days together and what you get is a universe that is fifteen and three quarter billion years old. Therefore, science does not in fact challenge the six day creation story, when you stay within the scientific frame of reference, it confirms it.

If you stay within the scientific frame of reference and apply what science tells us about time and the relativity of frames of reference, what modern cosmological theory states is that, from our current frame of reference, the creation of entire universe from the Big Bang to the creation of Man literally occurred in six twenty four hour days.

While the Bible is not a science textbook, there is indeed a remarkable correspondence between what science tells us and what the Bible tells us about the creation of physical reality as it pertains to the question of six days versus fifteen plus billion years. It is very hard to see this remarkable correspondence between science and Genesis as coincidence only.

I find this fascinating, what do you make of it?


Sidewalker
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@Polytheist-Witch
The trolls have arrived
They never leave. 
That's true, I was just commenting that those two clowns have now brought thier weird mating ritual into this thread.
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@Stephen
Well, Stephen.

And you're accused of trolling.


It would be futile to try and explain the internal chemistry that is spirituality, to a brain so intelligent and transcended that fails to overlook the basic concepts of reality.

Whatever reality might be of course.
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@zedvictor4
Well, Stephen.

And you're accused of trolling.  It would be futile to try and explain the internal chemistry that is spirituality, to a brain so intelligent and transcended that fails to overlook the basic concepts of reality.

Whatever reality might be of course.

Well, I was sincerely hoping for a brain so intelligent and so spiritually transcended that could explain to me why the BIBLE insists in some 15+ verses that there is only one god and in another 40+ verses it clearly shows there to be more than one ?

I suppose even my simple question it was too much of an ask of anyone  that believes themselves so intelligent and spiritually transcended. Vic, lad, so I don't think I should stretch my luck or curiosity by asking anyone to explain the basic concepts of reality. 


And you're accused of trolling. 

I am. And challenging claims has always been a trolling offence to those that don't appreciate being challenged, Vic.





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And claiming to be a Christian is your denomination.
You obviously don't understand the denominations of Christan's, and my profile says Christian not pseudo-Christian. Do your research.
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Peter was called Satan by Jesus and Peter hijacked the early church from Jesus' brother James.
Those facts are wrong. 
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@Elliott
 morality was selected by evolution
So, evolution, can create emotions and morality?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
I can assume you are a "pseudo-christian" because of your Bible stupidity
Thats not a viable reason to assume. 

Listen up, when you use the "Day Age Theory" for Creation, you are proffering that the time frame of the Big Bang in Genesis 1 and 2 is only 6000 years in a 6 day Creation,
No, you are not me.

First thing Bible fool, creation was 6 DAYS, because Jesus as our serial killer God RESTED upon the 7th day, understood Bible inept fool?
Yes, but the story of creation was in 7 days. I never said that he created anything on the "7th day" I in fact provided evidence proving otherwise. 
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@Stephen
And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22
Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7
The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods.
God is using the saved peoples as a whole for this part.
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@YouFound_Lxam
1: The Singularity
...I just want to point out that I do agree with science, and in fact it does prove gods' existence.
...
The big bang defiantly did happen, but God is the one who ignited the match.
This is in direct contradiction to Christian etiological scripture.

2: Design Has to Have a Designer
First, read this. Then, if you feel like it, read my paragraph. Yudkowsky is smarter and more eloquent than I am.
...If you have all the parts of a watch in a box, and they aren't put together, you could shake that box forever, but you would never get a watch. Now the human brain for example is way more advanced than a watch, so do you really think that life was just created like that, all shaken up?
And you would never get a human from shaking a box of organs. This is a terrible analogy. Evolution doesn't work with a box of parts. On the most fundamental level, it uses DNA replication as a filter for successful strategies. While this method has produced incredible results, it's hardly what I would call "intelligent." Think of how a computer programmer writes code. If a line fails, they can tweak parameters or try different stuff until it works. If necessary, he can remove entire sections of code and replace them with cleaner, more efficient code. With time and innovation, he can create new programs that do things no program has done before.
By comparison, evolution is the worst computer programmer you have ever seen. There is no backspace on his keyboard. He cannot make large changes all at once. Every single line change has to be iterated as its own generation, and if it does worse than the parent code, it gets thrown away.

3. What Created Life?
...every biological experiment we have done with chemicals and elements, has not produced life or any actual signs of life at all.

So, if life didn't arise from non-living chemicals, then how did life arise? The only explanation is a supernatural being.

1. Scientists have created amino acids (life/DNA's most basic building blocks) from inorganic compounds in conditions thought to resemble early earth's oceans. [1]
2. You claim to believe that the Big Bang happened, surely you also prescribe to the Earth being 4.5 billion years old, and that fossil records put the first life at ~3.5bya. So random chance had literally a billion years to create life from nothing, and because we haven't replicated that within 200 years of the theory of evolution being published, it must be impossible?

4. Moral Law
If some things are objectively morally wrong, and some things are objectively morally right, then there must be a God. 
1. You made no argument in favor of objective morality
2. How does it follow that there is a God? you could posit that it's a fundamental law, like gravity.

5. Human Reasoning

We humans have the nature to reason, and to wonder why things exist, why we exist, and that's why we have science. Why are we the only species that does this? Animals don't wonder why they exist, they just do? What gave us that need to find out? God did that's who.
You took a philosophical question, 'why can only humans reason' and then said, because God made it that way. I could literally say that in ANY POSSIBLE UNIVERSE. Imagine a world where every animal can reason. You regularly have debates on politics with the squirrel in your backyard. One could then pose the philosophical question, 'how do all of these animals reason' and answer the same, 'because God made it that way.'
Animals don't wonder why they exist, they just do?
We don't know because we can't ask them.

Fatal Flaw

You claim to believe in and argue for the existence not only of a God, but specifically the Christian god Yahweh/Jehovah, yet you only made theism arguments, not Christianity arguments. Every single one of your arguments is equally valid for Allah or Zeus or Quetzalcoatl. Furthermore, your professed belief in certain scientific theories are directly opposed to the Christian creation myth.
This is why there are so many agnostics and spiritual types that don't profess a specific religion. They look at part of the universe they're confused by like the Big Bang and evolution and conclude that some higher Power must be behind it. Unfortunately, there's no evidence on whether this Power wants to be worshipped, much less how it wants to be worshiped. They might read different scriptures, trying to find one with a hint of Truth, something that holds that same awe and answers their questions, but there are hundreds of religions, and most have fundamental disagreements, and many also contradict what you already know, like how the Bible says flying insects have four legs. (Lev 11:20-23)

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And you would never get a human from shaking a box of organs. This is a terrible analogy. Evolution doesn't work with a box of parts. On the most fundamental level, it uses DNA replication as a filter for successful strategies. While this method has produced incredible results, it's hardly what I would call "intelligent." Think of how a computer programmer writes code. If a line fails, they can tweak parameters or try different stuff until it works. If necessary, he can remove entire sections of code and replace them with cleaner, more efficient code. With time and innovation, he can create new programs that do things no program has done before.
I was referring to when the big bang happened, how did one big explosion from nothing cause all of this. Life doesn't come from explosions.

You took a philosophical question, 'why can only humans reason' and then said, because God made it that way. I could literally say that in ANY POSSIBLE UNIVERSE. Imagine a world where every animal can reason. You regularly have debates on politics with the squirrel in your backyard. One could then pose the philosophical question, 'how do all of these animals reason' and answer the same, 'because God made it that way.'
You can ask that question, yet you can't answer it. 
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You claim to believe in and argue for the existence not only of a God, but specifically the Christian god Yahweh/Jehovah, yet you only made theism arguments, not Christianity arguments. Every single one of your arguments is equally valid for Allah or Zeus or Quetzalcoatl. Furthermore, your professed belief in certain scientific theories are directly opposed to the Christian creation myth.
This is why there are so many agnostics and spiritual types that don't profess a specific religion. They look at part of the universe they're confused by like the Big Bang and evolution and conclude that some higher Power must be behind it. Unfortunately, there's no evidence on whether this Power wants to be worshipped, much less how it wants to be worshiped. They might read different scriptures, trying to find one with a hint of Truth, something that holds that same awe and answers their questions, but there are hundreds of religions, and most have fundamental disagreements, and many also contradict what you already know, like how the Bible says flying insects have four legs. (Lev 11:20-23)
I have already taken this fact into consideration, and have already expressed that that was my mistake, and I am working to prove it.
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@YouFound_Lxam

YouFound_Lxam, wrote: 

You don't have to believe the 7 days of creation are literal 7 days to be a Christian.
I believe that given in
Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." that for God, it was 7 days,

So the 7 day creation story is not to be taken literally but the  1 day = 1,000 years is to be taken literally?

How do you know?

And have you recanted on your belief that you can prove god exists and that there are many ways that you can to prove it?