God exists, and I Can Prove It.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

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#211
Yassine
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@YouFound_Lxam
It isn't valid proof; it is just saying that God wouldn't be God if he didn't call himself God. That doesn't go for everyone, this links with the rest of the evidence.
- Is "everyone" refer to rational people? A circular argument is invalid.


Yes, no one is fully good, with no sin in their hearts, except for God. God is only telling the ruler that he is good, in what he was doing, not a fully good person.
- Are you saying Jesus (pbuh) isn't God after all?


Probably should have worded that better, I'm sorry about that, but what I was trying to say, was that, If God never said that he was God in the bible, then that would disprove that he was God.
- This is untrue both ways. God is not contingent on revealing Himself for Him to be God. & you have to prove first that Jesus (pbuh) is God, before resorting to what he -allegedly- says about himself.


Well, what I was trying to point out here, was this question:

Is God a liar? No
Is God a lunatic? No
So, he must be the Lord.
- God & Lord in this context are just different names of the same thing. You haven't said anything.


This has nothing to do with what I said at all. What I am saying, is that those free disciples, who could have lived fruitful lives, instead decided to risk their own lives, all of them, for something they claimed to be true. Why would they leave their homes and families, to be tortured and killed if it was not true. 
- Assuming all this occurred, the most it proves is that they were sincere & believed what they were preaching. It has no bearing in the Truth of what they were preaching.

- The authors of the Gospels are anonymous. The names John, Luke, Matthew...etc are conventional -decided a century after the fact, & not of the actual disciples of Jesus (pbuh).
Well, if you use my provided research, then you will find this statement false.
- I wasn't stating an opinion. It's a statement of fact. It is a fact that the earliest mention of the Four Gospels came in late 2nd century AD, the earliest reference to these authors associated with the Gospels came a century later, & the earliest extant -almost- full copies of the Gospels another century later, in mid 4th century.


Yes, it does. It literally provides evidence for the eyewitness testimonies of all of those people. They didn't claim a million people saw it. They claimed what they saw. 
- If someone came to you & said I saw your grandma rising from the dead & claimed 500 people saw it with him. Would you believe his testimony? 


If you actually used the research, then you would again find this statement false.
- It factually isn't.


How is this untrue? Prove that its untrue. I have provided evidence proving otherwise, now show yours. 
- You haven't provided evidence. I do know a thing or two about the Bible... It doesn't even matter, because I didn't even object to your claims, I assumed they were true for the sake of argument. 


Yes, dozens of tombs are found empty, but using historical evidence, we learn that no one was buried there to begin with.
- Or maybe the body was stolen, maybe it fell off, maybe they picked the wrong one...etc. The possibilities are endless. Or maybe as you said, no one was buried there, & Jesus (pbuh) was mistaken to have risen from the dead when they got the wrong tomb... I bet you didn't think that one through...


And they weren't relatives. And let's just say for a minute your right. How is it possible that all of those people saw the exact same thing at the exact same time?
I wouldn't call that a fake appearance of the dead.
- It's not "all those people", it's one or two guys who claim "many people saw this". If you go to court & say "he raped me & 100 people saw it", would they take your word for it & just assume 100 people saw it because you said so? 


No, we won't be resurrected. Our souls will be resurrected. Not our body's, like Jesus's were.
- Both are a matter of debate among Christians. You don't seem to know much about your tradition... Either way, so in your own words, we are not gods, but our souls are? 


No Jesus died and was resurrected. Not God. There is a difference.
- So, is Jesus (pbuh) God or not God?



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#212
YouFound_Lxam
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- Are you saying Jesus (pbuh) isn't God after all?
No, Jesus, was the only human to walk on earth without sin. 

- Assuming all this occurred, the most it proves is that they were sincere & believed what they were preaching. It has no bearing in the Truth of what they were preaching.
Well, first of all it all did occur.

Again, why would all of those people all of the sudden, for no apparent reason, leave everything, and risk their lives, just to prove a lie?
Because it wasn't a lie. It was the truth.

- If someone came to you & said I saw your grandma rising from the dead & claimed 500 people saw it with him. Would you believe his testimony? 
If the 500 people agreed then yes. But there is more than 1 person who claimed they saw Jesus, at the same time, in the same place.

maybe it fell off, maybe they picked the wrong one
......im gonna let you think about that one. 

 It's not "all those people", it's one or two guys who claim "many people saw this". If you go to court & say "he raped me & 100 people saw it", would they take your word for it & just assume 100 people saw it because you said so? 
Its not 1 or 2 guys. It was a lot of people actually. Look at my evidence.

 Both are a matter of debate among Christians. You don't seem to know much about your tradition... Either way, so in your own words, we are not gods, but our souls are? 
This is false. You seem to not know about my faith. And no, our souls don't ever die, they are just brought up to God.

- So, is Jesus (pbuh) God or not God?
There is God the Father (God), God the son (Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost (The Holy Spirit.)
They are all one, but not at the same time. Jesus was God the son, who came down to earth in human form, and lived a sinless life, died on the cross for our sins, then rose again 3 days later.
#213
Yassine
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@Stephen

I'm quite surprised one of these claimed gospel authors wasn't name Simon. Simon's were everywhere in Jesus' day according to Tradesecret. They were more common than donkey shite.
- One of the disciples of Jesus (pbuh) was named Simon, one of his -alleged- brothers too.


If it came from the mouth of Tradesecret, then you can guarantee that it is a lie.
- How about you, what exactly do you believe?

#214
Tradesecret
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@Stephen
Now those kinds of things have happened in other religious traditions too, but the difference is this:
These people were actual eyewitnesses to what they were claiming.
- The authors of the Gospels are anonymous. The names John, Luke, Matthew...etc are conventional -decided a century after the fact, & not of the actual disciples of Jesus (pbuh)

I'm quite surprised one of these claimed gospel authors wasn't name Simon. Simon's were everywhere in Jesus' day according to Tradesecret. They were more common than donkey shite.
Such a silly comment. Wait a second was it Simon or Stephen we are talking about? 



Tradesecret wrot; In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  

It is not an argument. It is a statement of fact.   

A statement of fact testified to by the only witness who was there.  God.  
Yassine- This is circular. How do I know God indeed said that?
If it came from the mouth of Tradesecret, then you can guarantee that it is a lie.
Yeah cool man.  Why is it you are so desperate to get rid of me? What are you scared about?        


#215
Tradesecret
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Hello Brother,

No one on this site plays your game. Everyone - laughs at you.

Stop playing stupid and come and join in. 

We are all waiting.


#216
Tradesecret
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@Yassine
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  

It is not an argument. It is a statement of fact.   

A statement of fact testified to by the only witness who was there.  God.  
- This is circular. How do I know God indeed said that?
yes, how observant of you. It is called an axiom.  Do you know what that is?

#217
Tradesecret
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@zedvictor4
Trinity is just theistic gobbledegook.


Or, are you're saying that three GODS created the Universe.

In the beginning GODS created the heavens and the Earth.

Ah, someone missed the S off in translation.

I see.

Do you know which one created which bit, and who witnessed who's bit?

Does it say in the BOOK?

Zed, every now and then you say intriguing and brilliant things. But every now and then you say silly things. This is one of those occasions. 

The concept of the Trinity is the UNIFYING concept of the universe and everything else.  For many it is a really difficult concept - pretty much everyone who finds life difficult. 

Yet - to understand the Trinity - and its philosophical understanding is without doubt - what this world needs. It is one and it is many. It is absolute and yet relative. It is all and yet it is one. 

Still it is a matter for others to consider. 
#218
zedvictor4
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@Tradesecret
Good morning Trade.

Though perhaps it's goodnight over there.

And warm too.


I would suggest that The Universe is unified without human philosophical interference.

I would further suggest that philosophy is an over-complicating exercise in explaining what we already know.

In that sense GOD and Trinity is therefore an over-complicated explanation for what we already know.
#219
Stephen
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@Tradesecret
 Why is it you are so desperate to get rid of me?

Sound like more victimhood to me. 

I don't want to get rid of you Tradesecret. Quite the opposite.  I prefer you stick around.  I dread to think what this religion forum would become without being able
read  your ripping yarns and tall tales about yourself,,  and the highly qualified position that you have afforded and elevated  yourself to in the belief  they put  you in an higher qualified position than anyone else on this forum to speak on  such matters as the ancient scriptures.


What are you scared about?    

On the contrary. I believe it just maybe you that are worried that some here just might start taking on board what I am actually saying about your scriptures and find out for themselves if or not that my take on the New Testamant story of Jesus  is more plausible than the myth that you have been regurgitating and adding to for over the last two thousand years. 
You don't even have to read what I have to say concerning these unreliable and ambiguous half told stories that makeup the four contradictory gospels.  . It should be of no interest to you whatsoever. After all, you are the one that knows better than any - "drug addled kiddy fiddling#33" -  atheist, aren't you?
Is the bible a religious book, Tradesecret? Or just another history book to you?
#220
Stephen
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@Yassine
I'm quite surprised one of these claimed gospel authors wasn't name Simon. Simon's were everywhere in Jesus' day according to Tradesecret. They were more common than donkey shite.
- One of the disciples of Jesus (pbuh) was named Simon, one of his -alleged- brothers too.

Yep. You couldn't turn a corner in ancient first century Palestine with tripping over someone named Simon.

#221
Stephen
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@zedvictor4
In that sense GOD and Trinity is therefore an over-complicated explanation for what we already know.

The trinity gobbledegook came about because the Romans had to make Jesus a godman to cause him to be acceptable to the Roman citizenry.  Rome and Romans already had its established pantheon of gods.  There was no "god in three persons" as far as Jesus the JEW was concerned. It is nothing more than yet another Christian invention.
#222
Stephen
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@YouFound_Lxam
Rosends wrote: In Judaism, and remember, Jesus was supposedly Jewish, breaking a law IS a sin.
YouFound_Lxam wrote:  Jesus was not part of Judaism. He follows the Christian religion, because his death, and resurrection, started it.
Seriously!!?  Jesus was a born Jew of Jew parentage. There were no Christians in his time. And if the BIBLE is to be believed then he hadn't come to save or free anyone other than Jews.

JESUS SAID!
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Matthew 15:24

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.Matthew 10:5


Jesus would have been appalled that a new religion had sprang up in his name. 


If you look in the Bible, you will actually see Jesus going against the Judaist high priests. He came to earth not to follow the laws of Judaism, but to spread Gods word. 

 Judaism is "gods word" , you clown.

JESUS SAID!
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17



 He [Jesus] came to earth not to follow the laws of Judaism, but to spread Gods word. 

If you had have said Paul I would agree with you totally.   That is exactly what I have said here>


 Paul had said that the Old Testament laws were null and void and called them,"shit".


The self confessed liar Paul had his own version of what "gods laws" were.


#223
zedvictor4
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@Stephen
Like putting money on the collection plate or giving a tenth of your crops away to fat bishops and portly priests.

All in the name of J, his Dad, the other one and salvation. Hallelujah.

And of course, convert and you're still dishing out to the old virgin and associated child molesters.
#224
rosends
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@YouFound_Lxam

Jesus was not part of Judaism. He follows the Christian religion, because his death, and resurrection, started it.
So he wasn't part of the religion that he was and that he told others to listen to -- he followed a religion that only existed after he died. Makes as much sense as anything you have claimed thus far.

It might have been a sin in Judaism, but not in Christianity.
So if it was a sin then, according to your logic, any religion he founds must be false. That was your claim.


Where in the Bible does it say one has to abide by laws made by man, to not sin.
Who said laws are made by man? Deut 17 is pretty clear about enforcement of all sorts of laws including following all instruction given by the courts.


Jesus followed what God said to do, and everything God said to do, was without sin. 
No he didn't. He did things that were sinful according to what God said.  You can keep trying to wriggle out, but between dietary laws, sabbath observance, respect for teachers and parents, destruction of property and harming trees, he had plenty of sins.

If you are going to call this stealing, then give me one example of Judaist law, that states that standing next to a herd of pigs, casting demons unto them and them running away is breaking the law. 
The Jewish law says that one who indirectly causes a loss of money to an owner is responsible for that loss.

Jesus was Jewish, but does that mean that he was supposed to abide by Judaist law? No, that would be like saying, that someone who is Chinese, has to abide by Chinese law always. Well, what if they move to America? Now they don't have to follow the same laws.
But Jesus didn't move. In fact, he told his followers to listen to the teachings of the Pharisees. He said in Matt 5 that no element of the law would pass until all was "fulfilled." If you want to believe that Jesus, by his death, somehow "fulfilled" laws then you still have the laws being in force BEFORE he died, making his actions sinful under those laws.

I said if you are, not you are definitely doing that thing.
OK, so your guess was wrong.
#225
BrotherD.Thomas
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@Tradesecret


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TO THE MEMBERSHIP OF DEBATEART RELIGION FORUM PERTAINING TO MISS TRADESECRET'S RUNAWAY EXCUSES TO NOT ADDRESSING YOUR POSTS TO HER!

Yep, its that time again If you are keeping track of Miss Tradesecret’s excuses not to address your posts to her because her Bible stupidity will not allow her to do so, where here is an update to her “ever growing excuse list” as shown below at numbers 20-23.  LOL!


MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #1:  Her computer tells her that she should not open up webpage links that you provided showing her Bible ignorance, because it does not recognize them, LOL! https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7634-i-m-back-did-you-miss-me?page=1&post_number=18

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #2:  If you make a derogatory comment to her, is enough for her not to address your questions anymore, BUT, she makes these same remarks to other members, can we say HYPOCRITE, sure we can!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #3: She will call your posts to her as LIES, therefore there is no need for her to discuss your posts, yes, this is true!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #4:  She will tell you that your posts are “not worth it” to respond too, in once again showing her outright Bible ignorance to run away from them!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #5:  She will tell you that she doesn’t give a “toss” about your stupid ideas of a post you’ve directed to her, again, she runs away from them and hides!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #6:  When she opens a previous link that was directed to her, and after opening it and it showed her that she was wrong in her perceived biblical knowledge, she will tell you that she DID NOT open said post because she could care less in what you proposed!  

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE 7:  She will tell you that you don’t have enough “integrity” to take her time in debating you or answer your questions, therefore she can runaway from your post to her and hide.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #8: If she knows you will easily “own her Bible stupidity,” and allegedly you are using a fake personna, she will not debate you or answer your questions, other than to run away and HIDE from them! 

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #9: She will answer questions that she wants to answer, therefore not to questions that makes her the Bible fool! 

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #10: Now she has taken a pre-school girly excuse position to run away from biblical axioms that she cannot begin to discuss because of her Bible ignorance, by calling you a "duck," where you are “quack, quacking!” 

MISS TRADESECRETS EXCUSE #11: When she can't support her LYING opinions in disparaging you, she will digress to a pre-school level and use this excuse to run and hide!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #12: When she doesn’t understand a Biblical passage and you have to remind her of this fact, she will not address your posts.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #13: She will tell you that you don’t know how to engage her, because you select a quote, and quote it again because she ran away from it before.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #14: She will tell you that you do not engage her, when in FACT you have in making her the Bible fool that she is. Just another runaway tactic of hers.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #15: If you include a number of links where she addressed one of them, and you refuted her Bible stupidity on said link, she will still acuse you of not refuting it. Another runaway tactic of hers. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/359061

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #16: She will LIE about your posts where you didn’t specifically “ask her a question,” where in fact, your post didn’t need to ask her a question and was self-eplanatory to respond anyway.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #17: She will accuse your posts as spam and nonsense because she could not address them because of her Bible stupidity.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #18:  She will accuse you of bringing forth “out of context” Bible passages, therefore she will run from them without trying to address them in why they are out of context!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #19:  When you easily put her in a corner because of her Bible stupidity, she will tell you that you don’t know how to "engage her properly,"  when you already did just before she ran away from your post! 

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #20:  When poor Miss Tradesecret is in a corner because of her Bible ignorance, where she can’t address your posts to her, she will use this lame excuse: “Blah blah blah.” 

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #21:  When she knows that she can’t address your posts, she will just say “snap” to run away from them and hide.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #22:  When you have easily Bible Slapped her Silly®️ because of her Bible ignorance, she will erroniously give her opinion to you that she cannot back up. 

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #23:  When you really put her in a corner that she can't get out because of her Bible ineptness, she will say that you are a bum and she can't be bothered to converse with you!


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#226
BrotherD.Thomas
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@YouFound_Lxam

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YouFound_Lxam, the #2 Bible stupid fool within this religion forum,


THE STATEMENT IN QUESTION TOLD BY JESUS:  ”But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27)


1. YOUR LYING QUOTE REGARDING THE STATEMENT IN QUESTION ABOVE: “ Because Jesus did not say that.” 


2. YOUR QUOTE WHERE YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND IN THAT YOU SAID JESUS DID SAY THAT STATEMENT IN QUESTION!:  “Ok, BrotherD.Thomas, yes Jesus did say that.”


3. YOUR QUOTE NOW SAYING THAT JESUS DID NOT SAY THE STATEMENT IN QUESTION, HUH!:  “No, it didn't. Jesus didn't say this, he was telling a PARABLE.”


YouFound_Lxam, the Bible fool!

1. First you say Jesus didn’t say Luke 19:27!
2. Then you say that Jesus DID SAY this verse in question!
3. Then you said again that Jesus DID NOT say the verse in question!  

3 TIMES YOU CHANGED YOUR FEEBLE MIND BIBLE FOOL, and you expect the membership to take you seriously in your pathetic dumbfounded thread, NOT! LOL!


Listen up you outright Bible dumbass, do you see why Jesus and I need to take over your pathetic LYING thread, because you make a mockery of the TRUE Jesus the Christ in trying so hard to not show His TRUE killing ways, where the TRUE Christian like myself has learned to just accept this killing MO of our serial killing Jesus!  GET IT?

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#227
BrotherD.Thomas
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@YouFound_Lxam

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YouFound_Lxam, the #2 Bible stupid fool within this religion forum,


How many times are you going to RUN AWAY from my godly posts to you shown below, where they show your Bible stupidity in having no bounds!  Enough of you running away like a little sniffling crying little boy, understood?! 


You are still running away from the 3rd portion of this post!:


YouFound_Lxam, this is a discussion religion forum, NOT a runaway from discussion religion forum, get it Bible fool? Huh? Maybe? Just come out from hiding under your mommies apron because you are SCARED to address the posts shown above, understood Bible fool? 

YOU MAY BEGIN: 


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#228
BrotherD.Thomas
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JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HE PROMOTES THE MURDERING OF OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS!


Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating.  Jesus defends Himself by attacking them in a quid pro quo stance for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment, JESUS SAID: "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death. (Matthew 15: 3-4). 

The “command” that Jesus was referring too and that was in effect at His time, and forever, was when Moses said: “Honor your father and mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.” (Exodus 21:17) 


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!

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#229
BrotherD.Thomas
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JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HE WANTED INNOCENT FETUS' TO BE MURDERED BY HIM, INFANTS TO BE DASHED TO PIECES, AND ALLOWED PREGNANT WOMEN TO BE RIPPED UP IN INITIATING AN INSTANT ABORTION! 


JESUS AS GOD SAID: "Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." (Hosea 9:14) 

JESUS AS GOD SAID: "Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." (Hosea 9:16) 

JESUS AS GOD SAID: "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up" (Hosea 13:16)


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!

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#230
sadolite
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@YouFound_Lxam
Prove god controls outcome and you will prove god exists.
#231
BrotherD.Thomas
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JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HIS INSPIRED WORDS ALLOWS WOMEN TO BE STONED TO DEATH IF NOT A VIRGIN AT MARRIAGE!


“If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate.  And the young woman’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, “I found your daughter was not a virgin,” and yet these are the evidences of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.

“But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father’s house. So you shall put away the evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!

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JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HE GAVE HIS CREATION HEMORRHOIDS!


“The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.”  (Deuteronomy 28:27)

“God smote an entire city (Asdod) with "emerods [hemorrhoids] in their secret parts.” (1 Samuel 5:6) 

“And the men that died not were smitten with the emerods: and the cry of the city went up to heaven.”   (1 Samuel 5:12)

“Then he ordered the same city to make him five golden hemorrhoids (and five golden mice) as a "trespass offering." What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice ... Wherefore ye shall make images of your emerods, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods.” (1 Samuel 6:4-5) 


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!

.



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#233
YouFound_Lxam
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@Stephen
Seriously!!?  Jesus was a born Jew of Jew parentage. There were no Christians in his time. And if the BIBLE is to be believed then he hadn't come to save or free anyone other than Jews.
OK....obviously you don't understand what I am trying to tell you. Listen. 

Yes, Jesus didn't follow some Jewish laws, but that doesn't make him a sinner.  
At that time in Jerusalem, a lot of the church, and the authority was corrupt.
Jesus came and called out the Pharisees on this:
The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. 3 So obey everything they teach you, but don't do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.
4 They pile heavy burdens on people's shoulders and won't lift a finger to help. 5  Everything they do is just to show off in front of others. They even make a big show of wearing Scripture verses on their foreheads and arms, and they wear big tassels[a] for everyone to see. 6 They love the best seats at banquets and the front seats in the synagogues. 7 And when they are in the market, they like to have people greet them as their teachers.
8 But none of you should be called a teacher. You have only one teacher, and all of you are like brothers and sisters. 9 Don't call anyone on earth your father. All of you have the same Father in heaven. 10 None of you should be called the leader. The Messiah is your only leader. 11  Whoever is the greatest should be the servant of the others. 12  If you put yourself above others, you will be put down. But if you humble yourself, you will be honored.
13-14 You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You're nothing but show-offs. You lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. You won't go in yourselves, and you keep others from going in.[b]
15 You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You're nothing but show-offs. You travel over land and sea to win one follower. And when you have done so, you make that person twice as fit for hell as you are.
16 You are in for trouble! You are supposed to lead others, but you are blind. You teach that it doesn't matter if a person swears by the temple. But you say it does matter if someone swears by the gold in the temple. 17 You blind fools! Which is greater, the gold or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18 You also teach that it doesn't matter if a person swears by the altar. But you say it does matter if someone swears by the gift on the altar. 19 Are you blind? Which is more important, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Anyone who swears by the altar also swears by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple also swears by God, who lives there. 22  To swear by heaven is the same as swearing by God's throne and by the one who sits on that throne.
23  You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you're in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. 24 You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel.
25 You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you're in for trouble! You wash the outside of your cups and dishes, while inside there is nothing but greed and selfishness. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of a cup, and then the outside will also be clean.
27  You Pharisees and teachers are in for trouble! You're nothing but show-offs. You're like tombs that have been whitewashed.[c] On the outside they are beautiful, but inside they are full of bones and filth. 28 That's what you are like. Outside you look good, but inside you are evil and only pretend to be good.
29 You Pharisees and teachers are nothing but show-offs, and you're in for trouble! You build monuments for the prophets and decorate the tombs of good people. 30 And you claim you would not have taken part with your ancestors in killing the prophets. 31 But you prove you really are the relatives of the ones who killed the prophets. 32 So keep on doing everything they did. 33  You are nothing but snakes and the children of snakes! How can you escape going to hell?
34 I will send to you prophets and wise people and experts in the Law of Moses. You will kill them or nail them to a cross or beat them in your synagogues or chase them from town to town. 35  That's why you will be held guilty for the murder of every good person, beginning with the good man Abel. This also includes Barachiah's son Zechariah,[d] the man you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I can promise that you people living today will be punished for all these things! (Matthew 23 NIV).

God didn't abide by every singe Jewish law, because he was trying to prove that the Jewish law being taught in that day and age was corrupt.
That is why the Pharisees got him killed, using Judas (one of Jesus disciples) to hand him over to Constantine.

He was not sinning, he was listening to what God told him to do, not what man told him to do.

JESUS SAID!
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Matthew 15:24
"Throughout His earthly ministry, Jesus acted with a crystal-clear sense of His purpose. Eventually, all nations of earth would be blessed through Israel, in the person of Jesus, as the Son of God gave His life as the sacrifice for the sins of humanity. For that to happen, however, Jesus needs to accomplish certain things within the people of Israel. So, for now, Jesus has come to serve and heal God's chose people as the promised Messiah. Only after His own people officially reject Him will the offer be made for all to come into the family of God through faith in Christ (John 1:11–12).

Jesus uses the same language with her as when He sent disciples out in pairs to the towns and villages of Galilee (Matthew 10:5–6). He strictly forbids them from going into the Gentile territories. They are only to take the message of the kingdom to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This is the same reason given here for refusing—for now—to cast the demon from the daughter of this Canaanite woman begging Him for help. He has not been sent by His Father to heal the Gentiles, yet."

 Judaism is "gods word" , you clown.
"the cultural, social, and religious beliefs and practices of the Jews"

The Jewish people rejected Jesus as the one who will free the Jews. I am not taking about Jewish traditions, I am talking about the Christian faith.




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#234
YouFound_Lxam
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@rosends
So he wasn't part of the religion that he was and that he told others to listen to -- he followed a religion that only existed after he died. Makes as much sense as anything you have claimed thus far.
Yes. Because his death and resurrection jumpstarted Christianity. 
Yes he was a part of it, because he was God, Jesus was both fully man, and fully God.

So if it was a sin then, according to your logic, any religion he founds must be false. That was your claim.
umm....please elaborate more on this.

Who said laws are made by man? Deut 17 is pretty clear about enforcement of all sorts of laws including following all instruction given by the courts.
Man bases some of their laws off of the Bible, but man still makes those laws. 

No he didn't. He did things that were sinful according to what God said.  You can keep trying to wriggle out, but between dietary laws, sabbath observance, respect for teachers and parents, destruction of property and harming trees, he had plenty of sins.
No he didn't. He didn't do anything sinful according to what God said. He did things that were sinful that man said was sinful.

The Jewish law says that one who indirectly causes a loss of money to an owner is responsible for that loss.
So, when the demons were asked to be thrown among the pigs, it was Gods fault that the pigs ran away?

All I'm saying is that if your going to prove to me that Jesus wasn't God, by him "stealing" with supernatural powers, then you are already contradicting yourself.

But Jesus didn't move. In fact, he told his followers to listen to the teachings of the Pharisees.
He actually didn't do that. 
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#235
YouFound_Lxam
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THE STATEMENT IN QUESTION TOLD BY JESUS:  ”But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27)


1. YOUR LYING QUOTE REGARDING THE STATEMENT IN QUESTION ABOVE: “ Because Jesus did not say that.” 


2. YOUR QUOTE WHERE YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND IN THAT YOU SAID JESUS DID SAY THAT STATEMENT IN QUESTION!:  “Ok, BrotherD.Thomas, yes Jesus did say that.”


3. YOUR QUOTE NOW SAYING THAT JESUS DID NOT SAY THE STATEMENT IN QUESTION, HUH!:  “No, it didn't. Jesus didn't say this, he was telling a PARABLE.”
Ok.
Jesus in fact did say that. But he didn't claim that. He was telling a story, therefore saying those words, but not claiming those words.
He was in fact a narrator in the parable.
Saying that Jesus said that, would be like saying a narrator, who narrates," I killed a man" actually killed a man.

How many times are you going to RUN AWAY from my godly posts to you shown below, where they show your Bible stupidity in having no bounds!  Enough of you running away like a little sniffling crying little boy, understood?! 


You are still running away from the 3rd portion of this post!:


YouFound_Lxam, this is a discussion religion forum, NOT a runaway from discussion religion forum, get it Bible fool? Huh? Maybe? Just come out from hiding under your mommies apron because you are SCARED to address the posts shown above, understood Bible fool? 
I didn't "run away" from your posts.
I may have not answered you directly on some of them, but I did answer all your questions, and comments.

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JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HE PROMOTES THE MURDERING OF OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS!


Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating.  Jesus defends Himself by attacking them in a quid pro quo stance for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment, JESUS SAID: "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death. (Matthew 15: 3-4). 

The “command” that Jesus was referring too and that was in effect at His time, and forever, was when Moses said: “Honor your father and mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.” (Exodus 21:17) 


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!


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JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HE WANTED INNOCENT FETUS' TO BE MURDERED BY HIM, INFANTS TO BE DASHED TO PIECES, AND ALLOWED PREGNANT WOMEN TO BE RIPPED UP IN INITIATING AN INSTANT ABORTION! 


JESUS AS GOD SAID: "Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." (Hosea 9:14) 

JESUS AS GOD SAID: "Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." (Hosea 9:16) 

JESUS AS GOD SAID: "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up" (Hosea 13:16)


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!



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JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HIS INSPIRED WORDS ALLOWS WOMEN TO BE STONED TO DEATH IF NOT A VIRGIN AT MARRIAGE!


“If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate.  And the young woman’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, “I found your daughter was not a virgin,” and yet these are the evidences of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.

“But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father’s house. So you shall put away the evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!


.
JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HIS INSPIRED WORDS ALLOWS WOMEN TO BE STONED TO DEATH IF NOT A VIRGIN AT MARRIAGE!


“If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate.  And the young woman’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, “I found your daughter was not a virgin,” and yet these are the evidences of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.

“But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father’s house. So you shall put away the evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!


.
JESUS AS GOD EXISTS BECAUSE HE GAVE HIS CREATION HEMORRHOIDS!


“The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.”  (Deuteronomy 28:27)

“God smote an entire city (Asdod) with "emerods [hemorrhoids] in their secret parts.” (1 Samuel 5:6) 

“And the men that died not were smitten with the emerods: and the cry of the city went up to heaven.”   (1 Samuel 5:12)

“Then he ordered the same city to make him five golden hemorrhoids (and five golden mice) as a "trespass offering." What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice ... Wherefore ye shall make images of your emerods, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods.” (1 Samuel 6:4-5) 


"EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, with this preceding passage that EVERY word of Jesus as god is flawless, then who are we to try and change Jesus' direct words as shown above, not me!
Um...…well ok then...…




#236
rosends
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@YouFound_Lxam
Yes. Because his death and resurrection jumpstarted Christianity. 
If his death jump started it, then it wasn't a thing before his death.

umm....please elaborate more on this.
Your words in post 167: "If the person who is responsible for starting a religion is with sin, then that religion is false."
Your words in post #210: "It might have been a sin in Judaism"
So if it was a sin in Judaism, and Jesus was Jewish, then he sinned and any religion he starts is false. Your logic.

Man bases some of their laws off of the Bible, but man still makes those laws. 
And the bible commands us to abide by those laws.

No he didn't. He didn't do anything sinful according to what God said. He did things that were sinful that man said was sinful.
The things I pointed to are from textual mentions of sinful activities.

So, when the demons were asked to be thrown among the pigs, it was Gods fault that the pigs ran away?
That's a lot of silly presumptions. How about "when Jesus caused the pigs to run away, that was his fault."

All I'm saying is that if your going to prove to me that Jesus wasn't God,
another "if"? Should I point out (again) that that's not what I'm doing? 
He actually didn't do that. 

really? Matt 23 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. "
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#237
YouFound_Lxam
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If his death jump started it, then it wasn't a thing before his death.
Bingo. 
People still followed Jesus's teachings, before it, but the church itself, and Christianity, followed after his death.

Your words in post 167: "If the person who is responsible for starting a religion is with sin, then that religion is false."
Your words in post #210: "It might have been a sin in Judaism"
So if it was a sin in Judaism, and Jesus was Jewish, then he sinned and any religion he starts is false. Your logic.
Ok thank you for elaborating. 
In the Judaist religion, it might have been a sin, but just because something is proclaimed as a sin, doesn't mean it really is one. 
Jesus followed what God said was right, because he was God. What man called sin meant nothing to him, because he was the judge of sin.

And the bible commands us to abide by those laws.
yes....and? Man makes many laws that don't abide by the Bibles teachings. Therefore, law made by man isn't always the correct thing to do.

The things I pointed to are from textual mentions of sinful activities.
You need to understand, those sinful activities, only took place in the eyes of a different religion. Not Christian faith. 

That's a lot of silly presumptions. How about "when Jesus caused the pigs to run away, that was his fault."
He didn't. The Demons asked to be thrown among the pigs. The demons could have left, and the pigs would have stayed. 
Not Jesus's fault, the Demons fault.

another "if"? Should I point out (again) that that's not what I'm doing? 
Again, I am not accusing you of doing said thing. I am saying if you are going to use that argument, then you are contradicting yourself. 
So, if not for that reason, then why?

really? Matt 23 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. "
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. (Matthew 23 NIV)."

Maybe next time read a bit further. 





#238
Yassine
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@Stephen
Yep. You couldn't turn a corner in ancient first century Palestine with tripping over someone named Simon.
- Lmao...

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Yassine
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@Tradesecret
yes, how observant of you. It is called an axiom.  Do you know what that is?
- An axiom is such that it is impossible to be known otherwise. E.g. the Law of Identity or Non-contradiction. We know something is itself such that we can not perceive it otherwise even if we tried to. We can't conceive of a square circle even if we try our best. We know what we see we actually are seeing & we can not conceive it otherwise even if we attempt it... I can easily conceive & believe the fact that God didn't author the Bible, in fact most humans effectively do. Therefore, this is not axiomatic. It's circular.

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Yassine
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@YouFound_Lxam
No, Jesus, was the only human to walk on earth without sin. 
- I thought this was about proving God is Jesus. So, how do you prove that the god of the Bible is God, the Creator of the Universe?


Well, first of all it all did occur.
- You can't prove that claim... it doesn't matter either way. The issue is elsewhere.


Again, why would all of those people all of the sudden, for no apparent reason, leave everything, and risk their lives, just to prove a lie? Because it wasn't a lie. It was the truth.
- At most you can say it was truth to them. People die for what they believe to be true all the time, doesn't necessarily mean what they believe in is actually True. Otherwise we would have to believe all beliefs defended by people who died for them. Do you believe in Islam given that, similarily, many of the beloved Prophet (pbuh) companions were tortured & killed & enslaved & maimed & starved...etc for believing in it?


If the 500 people agreed then yes. But there is more than 1 person who claimed they saw Jesus, at the same time, in the same place.
- There you go. As you have admitted, you need the testimony of the other supposed 500 themselves & not just the word of the one guy who claimed there were 500 with him. As to Jesus (pbuh), there may have been one or two who testified to have seen him, assuming the sources are authentic. 


......im gonna let you think about that one. 
- I'll let you do the thinking, you need it.


Its not 1 or 2 guys. It was a lot of people actually. Look at my evidence.
- It wasn't. It was one person -maybe 2- claiming there was a lot of people. There is a difference.


This is false. You seem to not know about my faith. And no, our souls don't ever die, they are just brought up to God.
- At least I know a whole lot more about your faith than you do. Thnetopsychism is an ancient Christian doctrine which is also mainstream today. Contrary to what you think, the immortality of the soul originates not in the Bible but in Greek Philosophy. 


There is God the Father (God), God the son (Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost (The Holy Spirit.)
- You just said earlier Jesus (pbuh) is not God but a human. You're contradicting yourself.


They are all one, but not at the same time.
- This is a self-contradiction. You're saying God is God & not God at the same time. It's nonsense.


Jesus was God the son, who came down to earth in human form, and lived a sinless life, died on the cross for our sins, then rose again 3 days later.
- You have yet to prove that the above is actually God, the Creator. We are waiting.