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@Stephen
@BrotherD.Thomas
Snap.
Genesis 1:1
- Say, the Universe has a Creator, God. Prove to me Jesus / Yahweh is said God.
Ok first I will prove that the universe was created by a god, then I will prove that God to be Jesus/Yahweh, in a later post.It all comes down to time.Definition of Time: "the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole."Time itself had to of had a beginning."So, people attempt to construct alternative theories where gravity and thus space and time can be described as quantized fields. However, irrespective of these ideas, there is always a transition from the quantum to the classical realm. Even if linear flowing time wouldn’t make sense in a quantum space-time, it has to as the quantum cosmos transitions to the classical cosmos, we live in. In a sense, as Saint Augustine had remarked some 16 centuries ago, space and time emerge with Creation. Here, Creation is precisely this transition from a quantum to a classical time. Time begins when it starts ticking, that is, when physical processes take place in the background of a classical space-time. Anything that happened before has been erased from cosmic memory.""You couldn’t think of a distance between two points or of a time interval between two events. Everything fluctuates wildly. Physics as we know it falls apart."Time is measurable. It's called spacetime.Definition of Space Time: "the concepts of time and three-dimensional space regarded as fused in a four-dimensional continuum."Now that we have gotten that out of the way, we can move on to The Big Bang Theory.The Big Bang Theory"The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today."Ok now we take both of those claims and put them together.Time had a beginning, which is when the universe began.That is when the Big Bang happened.Now I ask all of you this.How did the "infinitely hot and dense single point" come into existence, at the beginning of time, if there was nothing there to create, that point?Answer is: There was something there to create that point, and that thing was a god, or a higher being of some sort.That is just a scratch of my evidence proving a god, now I will return with evidence proving why the god that created the universe is Jesus/Yahweh.
1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lost hope.
4. The tomb was later found empty after his interment.(accepted by 75% of scholars)
5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus.
6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.
7. The proclamation of the resurrection took place at the very beginning of the church.
8. They preached the message of Jesus's resurrection in Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried.
9. The gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.
11. James, a family skeptic, was converted to the faith, when he believed he saw the resurrected Christ.
12. Saul (Paul) was converted to the faith because he believed he saw the risen Jesus."
YouFound_Lxam Well, I mean there are a lot of ways I can prove his existence. But I was hoping someone else would put in why they don't believe it so I can disprove their argument.Yassine- Say, the Universe has a Creator, God. Prove to me Jesus / Yahweh is said God.Tradesecret wrote: Genesis 1:1Yassine- Where is the argument? Why don't you lay it out for me.Tradesecret wrote: It is not an argument. It is a statement of fact. A statement of fact testified to by the only witness who was there. God.
How did the "infinitely hot and dense single point" come into existence, at the beginning of time, if there was nothing there to create, that point?
Answer is: There was something there to create that point, and that thing was a god, or a higher being of some sort.
That is just a scratch of my evidence proving a god, now I will return with evidence proving why the god that created the universe is Jesus/Yahweh.
All of these examples show God telling us that he is God, which someone who isn't God wouldn't do.
1. Jesus died by crucifixion.2. He was buried.3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lost hope.4. The tomb was later found empty after his interment.(accepted by 75% of scholars)5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus.6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.7. The proclamation of the resurrection took place at the very beginning of the church.8. They preached the message of Jesus's resurrection in Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried.9. The gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.11. James, a family skeptic, was converted to the faith, when he believed he saw the resurrected Christ.12. Saul (Paul) was converted to the faith because he believed he saw the risen Jesus."
Wouldn't the same question be applicable to a God idea? How did God "come into existence"? If you claim that God was "outside" of the flow of time then you have created a special pleading. Your conclusion, necessary for you to sustain a belief, is just a claim with no proof.
So any theology which has a text in which its idea of God declares itself to be God is equally valid.
Seven moves into more reaction, built on a foundation of belief. 8 and 9 are the codification of that belief, and no one has to disagree that someone thought that a restaurant serving dogs was a good idea so he built it. This doesn't mean it was a good idea, just that he believed it.
No. He was taken to a tomb privately owned by his secret disciple Joseph of Arimathea that was inside private walled garden where his wounds were treated with medicines brought to the tomb by his other secret disciple Nicodemus and he recovered from his trauma.
No. His crucifixion made them despair and lose hope. The mission had failed. He hadn't live up to what was expected of the promised Messiah. And most of his following had deserted him and well before his arrest because they knew it was doomed to fail .The promise by god that he would "inherit the throne of David" didn't come to fruition either..
And they were lying. They hadn't witnessed anything.
God didn't come into existence as I explained in post #103:"God is eternal without a cause because he lives outside of time. Think of it like this:In a metaphorical sense, there is a box, and in the box is all of time/space. God doesn't live in the box. He lives outside of that (outside of time and space, things he created.)He can stick his hand in the box and affect things, but he doesn't live inside that box."
Go to any other religious text or history, and you will find little to no proof of its actual historical existence.But Christianity has actual proof.
So, how did all of those people all of the sudden go from mourning gods' death (which actually did happen) to immediately leaving their homes and families to go risk their lives to spread the word.
But today, many people believe things -- does that make every object of belief a reality or truth? Is every conspiracy theory a proven truth?
I found a website that says "scholars agree that Buddha existed" so there goes your claim.
That's the eseence of the special pleading -- you assert a nature of God and because of that nature, God must exist. But nothing is proven, just claimed.
Then to the question of "why would people leave to spread a message if it wasn't true?" and the answer to that is "because some people are easily influenced and are looking anywhere for a sign to drive their lives."
Yes, but how many other beliefs have this much evidence, and the most religious followers in the world going over 2 billion followers.
I don't see a link to that website.
If the person who is responsible for starting a religion is with sin, then that religion is false
For certain aspects of Christianity, you have to have some sort of faith to believe in God.
But I have already proven the existence of a higher being in one of my first posts
Yes, but there hasn't been any other case in history, where that big of a group of people go from mourning, and doubting Christ, to risking their lives to spread his word, in the span of less than a year.
I guess that Christianity is false then because according to Jesus' own religion, Judaism, he sinned. Thanks.
So then it isn't a function of proof and you might want to stop insisting that you can prove it.
No, you have claimed it
two problems -- the first is that you are still relying on a faith based book to make your supposedly historical claim
Did all the people who accepted Jesus first doubt? Or maybe they had no opinion. Was the group that big? We don't really have any evidence of that. Remember, it took an act of an emperor to force people to adopt the religion.
so it is a matter of numbers? The 1.6 Billion Muslims and 1 million Hindus just aren't enough? Since Christian belief came by the edge of a sword and by an emperor's fiat, is it really valid?
but then I am confronted by the level of injustice in this world and it kills my belief.Injustice was too high a price to pay for ‘free will’. And hard on injustice’s heels is senseless suffering. I cant believe in a loving God when people suffer such terrible things in their lives.
Give me an example of this. This is a lie and a false statement.Jesus himself lived a pure life, and faced all the hardships of humanity.The whole point of Jesus sacrificing himself, wasn't just a show.Jesus, showed God, that it was possible to live a sinless life, therefore, people can enter the kingdom of heaven by accepting Jesus as there lord and savior.His sinless body died on the cross for our sins.
I have literally spent this entire time proving it.
Claiming it is saying it happened without evidence, just simply claiming.I have provided valid proof of his existence. It is up to you to believe it or not.
Actually, that wasn't the start of Christianity, you are false.You are stating that an emperor forced people to worship god, therefore, that's when it started. The religion itself actually started after Jesus's Resurrection, which was sparked by his disciples, who led thousands of people to God.
Numbers is just an extra addon to the proof. It is a matter of historical continuity. Muslim, and Hindu don't have that much type of evidence when it comes to events that scientists cant explain.
Give me an example of this. This is a lie and a false statement.Jesus himself lived a pure life, and faced all the hardships of humanity.The whole point of Jesus sacrificing himself, wasn't just a show.Jesus, showed God, that it was possible to live a sinless life, therefore, people can enter the kingdom of heaven by accepting Jesus as there lord and savior.His sinless body died on the cross for our sins.Here are some resources
"Not far away there was a large herd of pigs feeding. 31 So the demons begged Jesus, "If you are going to drive us out, send us into that herd of pigs." 32 "Go," Jesus told them; so they left and went off into the pigs. The whole herd rushed down the side of the cliff into the lake and was drowned. 33 The men who had been taking care of the pigs ran away and went into the town, where they told the whole story and what had happened to the men with the demons." Matthew 8:30-33.Here we have a clear case of Jesus stealing a herd of pigs. Why do I say he stole them?Well, ask yourself: did these pigs belong to Jesus?Nope.Those pigs didn't belong to Jesus per the Christian bible.Are pigs wild?No, they are domesticated meaning they belonged to someone.Were they running wild?Also “no.” The Christian bible tells us "Those tending the pigs ran off” Matthew 8:33.
He healed on the sabbath (which is a sin)He encouraged others to break laws (like laws of food and the sabbath).There's more, but there you have it. He sinned according to Judaism, so by your logic, his religion is false.Then of course you make the ridiculous claim about dying for another's sin which is not a thing in Judaism...
Until it was forced on people, it wasn't a large number. You conflate the population before and after. Thousands (still an unprovable claim because it relies on the bible testimony) isn't all that impressive.
I would suggest it doesn't. Do you think science can explain the magic in the Harry Potter books? Fiction is like that.
Jesus cast the demons out of a person who was being tormented by them, and he cast them among the pigs, the animals.The fact that the pigs ran away, was not his felt, but the demons who were in control of the pigs.To assume that this was Jesus stealing is preposterous.
Yea your right, in Judaism not Christianity.I think you are arguing about a different religion.Jesus did not go by Judaism's laws, in fact he revoked them when he argued with the high priests and called them out for their sins.
Yes, but it is was still proven historically to be a religion.
Well to compare the Bible to Harry Potter is very stupid.The Bible is based in facts.Harry Potter is based in fiction.
And really, the fact is that their will never be blatant truth and there will never be hard concrete evidence of Yahweh's existence, because again, God wants us to love him, and if we only base this faith in facts, and only accept god because the facts are right, then that is not true love, the thing that God wants most from us.So no their will never be hard, concrete, physical evidence of Yahweh, but their is still no evidence to this day, that the bible contradicts itself, or that Jesus contradicted himself either. Their is a lot of evidence proving his existence and resurrection.Now whether you believe that or not is up to you.
In Jewish law (remember, he was Jewish supposedly), he caused it so he is responsible for the result. So, a sin.
There was no Christianity. Jesus was supposedly a Jew, breaking Jewish law. Remember, you said" If the person who is responsible for starting a religion is with sin, then that religion is false." If Jesus is responsible for starting Christianity, and, as you concede, in Judaism (he was Jewish) he was sinful, then the religion he starts must be false.
I sense that some people might disagree with your claim to facts behind the bible.
So your evidence for him not being god, is doing something supernatural? Hmmmmm......
Laws don't negate sin. Their are many laws in many countries that are sinfully in themselves. Raising taxes because of greed is one example. So he did not break the law, he just understood what was sinful and what wasn't.
Yes.....and?
I am using the story as told in a text I don't value to show that even according to your logic, your own text testifies the falsity of the religion. I can use the text of Harry Potter to show that Harry Potter is sinful also if you would like.
No, he broke laws. If I drive 56 miles per hour in a 55 zone, I am breaking the law even if I think it is a dumb limit designed to trap drivers into getting tickets. That makes me a law breaker. Sin has to do with breaking laws. Jesus broke laws, therefore he was a sinner. QED.
No. He was taken to a tomb privately owned by his secret disciple Joseph of Arimathea that was inside private walled garden where his wounds were treated with medicines brought to the tomb by his other secret disciple Nicodemus and he recovered from his trauma.Why would they take him to his tomb, if he was still alive?
No. His crucifixion made them despair and lose hope. The mission had failed. He hadn't live up to what was expected of the promised Messiah. And most of his following had deserted him and well before his arrest because they knew it was doomed to fail .The promise by god that he would "inherit the throne of David" didn't come to fruition either..Then why did all the sudden, soon after his death and resurrection, did all of his disciples all at once leave their families and risk their lives in the name of Jesus?
And they were lying. They hadn't witnessed anything.That's not a valid point. Saying to someone you lied isn't a proof of lying. You are just assuming they lied, because you don't want to believe it.
Stephen wrote: So the 7 day creation story is not to be taken literally but the 1 day = 1,000 years is to be taken literally?How do you know?YouFound_Lxam Wrote: Here is the thing about the scripture. The scripture doesn't always mean something literally happened, and it doesn't mean something metaphorically happened.
Stephen wrote: "So the 7-day creation story is not to be taken literally but the 1 day = 1,000 years is to be taken literally?"YouFound_Lxam wrote: Yes maybe. But maybe by the scripture saying that, it could be representing that God lives outside of time, therefore it was portrayed differently.But then again it could have meant a literal 7 days, or 7 thousand years. Thats the fascinating thing about the bible.
YouFound_Lxam wrote, That's the fascinating thing about the bible.