Analysis of a Controversial Ad from America First Legal

Author: thett3

Posts

Total: 44
Topic's author
#1
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
A recent political advertisement in the state of Georgia has been widely criticized which alleges that Democratic policies are discriminating against white people. You can watch it here: https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1587645902730280961

The NAACP, an organization with an annual budget of around $25 million, has sent a letter to stations in Georgia demanding that the "misleading" ad be taken down: https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1588182223471054848

I find this quite bizarre because I believe that every single claim in the advertisement is objectively true. As I see it, the advertisement made three major claims and I will analyze each one individually: 

Claim #1: 

Joe Biden tried to ration pandemic relief based on race

This one is just objectively true, and was proven in federal court. The Biden administration attempted to dole out relief funds to restaurants that were closed due to the pandemic based on race. White males were so far to the back of the line that there was a serious risk of the fund running out entirely before they were allowed to access it. Fortunately, the court stepped in and ruled that this discrimination was violating the law:



In addition, federal court slapped down an attempt to give money to nonwhite farmers, and only nonwhite farmers: " https://nypost.com/2021/06/12/judge-halts-bidens-4b-aid-program-for-farmers-of-color/ The judge in the case wrote: 

"The “only consideration in determining whether a farmer or rancher’s loans should be completely forgiven is the person’s race or national origin,” Griesbach wrote. “Plaintiffs are completely excluded from participation in the program based on their race.”

“The obvious response to a government agency that claims it continues to discriminate against farmers because of their race or national origin is to direct it to stop: it is not to direct it to intentionally discriminate against others on the basis of their race and national origin,” 

Verdict: This claim is objectively, indisputably true. The administration did attempt to ration COVID aid by race, with whites so far to the back of the line that they may not have gotten anything. 

Claim #2: Kamala Harris said disaster aid should be rationed by race

This is by far the weakest claim in the ad, but I don't think it's misleading at all. Here is the clip so you can see for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rM7oITGdjnY

Harris is specifically talking about hurricane, says that "communities of color" are most impacted (despite the hurricane in question hitting communities that were around 85-90% white) and stating that we need to be "giving resources based on equity." 

Verdict: This is the weakest claim, but it still holds up as true

Claim #3: Medical treatment for COVID was rationed by race, with whites at the bottom

This is the most inflammatory claim and unfortunately, it is true that COVID treatments were rationed by race in certain jurisdictions.  

Aaron Sibarium did some excellent reporting on this which you can read here: https://twitter.com/aaronsibarium/status/1479482941067743233 but in New York, minorities were automatically eligible to receive monoclonal antibodies, which were in short supply, "regardless of age or underlying conditions." In Minnesota, the "ethical framework" used to determine who could get this treatment prioritized black 18 year olds over white 64 year olds, even though the latter were clearly more at risk. In Utah (!) the formula which determined eligibility for the treatment gave more points for "Latinx ethnicity" than a history of "congestive heart failure."

In addition, when the vaccine was first being rolled out, the decision was made not to prioritize the elderly, who were actually dying, but frontline workers. Part of the rational, as I documented at the time here (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5351-a-great-example-of-the-actual-purpose-of-identity-politics) was because the elderly (again, the people who were actually dying) were too white of a population to deserve access to the vaccine first.

In Vermont and Motana(!) white people were given access to the vaccine later than people of color were: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-04-05/vermont-covid-19-vaccine-priority-minority-residents

Verdict: This claim is objectively true, although fortunately this did not happen everywhere. Nonetheless, discrimination against white people in accessing COVID treatments likely led to thousands if not tens of thousands of additional deaths in the white community.

I'm confused why this ad is getting any pushback at all since all of the claims made are factual. White Supremacy is a really weird system I suppose, when white people can be denied financial aid and lifesaving medical treatment and are shamed for complaining about it.
#2
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,023
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
I agree, this doesn't look anything near what white supremacy is supposed to look like. Kinda like how the males are still getting shafted like they always have been historically under a 'patriarchy"
Topic's author
#3
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@Greyparrot
I really hope some of the site liberals respond because everything in the ad was true. How is this a “white supremacist” society lol 
#4
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
This is the weakest claim, but it still holds up as true
What is true? That poor people are more impacted by natural disasters than people of means? That POC are more likely to be poor in this country than white people? Those are both indisputably true.

Topic's author
#5
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
What is true? That poor people are more impacted by natural disasters than people of means? That POC are more likely to be poor in this country than white people? Those are both indisputably true
The claim in the ad, that Harris said hurricane aid should be distributed based on “equity”, ie race based is true 

How do you feel about rationing COVID medicine and financial aid based on race? 
#6
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
white people can be denied financial aid and lifesaving medical treatment and are shamed for complaining about it.
Financial aid and medical treatment both should go to the people who need it the most if it is in short supply. Do you agree?

#7
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
See below
#8
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
distributed based on “equity”, ie race based is true 
Based on equity, meaning those who have more need should get more support or if 10% of the population hit by a hurricane is black then blacks should get 10% of available relief funds?

Topic's author
#9
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
Financial aid and medical treatment both should go to the people who need it the most if it is in short supply. Do you agree?
I do agree, which is why I think it was obscene and disgusting to prioritize this based on race instead of objective need. The people who implemented policies such as giving monoclonal antibodies to black 18 year olds over white people in their 60s, or trying to keep white people from accessing financial aid for their businesses have a lot to answer for 
#10
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
How is this a “white supremacist” society lol 
You’ve got to be kidding. There are numerous examples in history long past and recent that demonstrate how blacks are disadvantaged in American society 

#11
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
I do agree, which is why I think it was obscene and disgusting to prioritize this based on race instead of objective need. The people who implemented policies such as giving monoclonal antibodies to black 18 year olds over white people in their 60s, or trying to keep white people from accessing financial aid for their businesses have a lot to answer for 
I doubt it. It seems likely the distribution of relief in this way was appropriate. An 18 yo black man is likely to have zero history of having medical care or access to a PCP. A 65 year old white guy probably goes to the doctor twice a week and has had a PCP his entire life from birth.

Topic's author
#12
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
I doubt it. It seems likely the distribution of relief in this way was appropriate. An 18 yo black man is likely to have zero history of having medical care or access to a PCP. A 65 year old white guy probably goes to the doctor twice a week and has had a PCP his entire life from birth.

Somebody in their early 60's was 25x more likely to die of COVID than an 18 year old. They were objectively more in need, by a substantial margin. There's no doubt that white people died because this medicine was given to young, healthy people of other races who did not need it to live. Other risk factors such as medical history were ALREADY included in the formulas to distribute the drugs, race was included IN ADDITION TO these factors, and in some cases was prioritized over a history of congestive heart failure

#13
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
A 65 year old white guy probably goes to the doctor twice a week
This would seem to indicate a lack of knowledge about white men, or, more accurately, men in general. Men are so commonly reluctant to go to the doctor that it has become a long-running, universal joke. Perhaps the men you know are more conscious about their health (and good for them!), but it is common for many men to go years between medical appointments.

#14
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@SirAnonymous
All the seniors I know in my family and at the American Legion Post basically have a full-time job going to the doctors 
#15
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
Good for them.
#16
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,023
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@thett3
What do you think about the SCOTUS about to declare affirmative action policies unconstitutional?

#17
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,023
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@thett3
Clarence Thomas:

" I have heard the word Diversity quite a few times and it seems to mean everything for everyone"

"I would like to hear what the educational benefits of diversity would be"
Topic's author
#18
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@Greyparrot
I’m excited about it. Either we have freedom of association or we have government enforced anti -discrimination. If we have the latter it has to be a two way street. 

I’m also really excited to see democrats flail and freak out over what’s probably their least popular and most unfair policy getting banned. You have to be deep into the liberal narrative to justify why six decades after the civil rights movement a white or asian kid should have to score a standard deviation higher than a black kid to get into the same school 

It’s also really funny (in a fucked up way) to me how in some cases affirmative action harms asian-americans even more than white people. The whole punishing white people for the sins of (some of) their fathers is grotesque but wtf did Asian people ever do to deserve such severe penalties in school admissions lol. Succeed too hard? 
Topic's author
#19
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
It’s also really funny (in a fucked up way) to me how in some cases affirmative action harms asian-americans even more than white people. The whole punishing white people for the sins of (some of) their fathers is grotesque but wtf did Asian people ever do to deserve such severe penalties in school admissions lol. Succeed too hard? 
And hey I get it, the constantly studying striver is an annoying personality type and a university completely full of them would be a real drag. But the differential between ethnic groups on who gets rejected and who gets accepted is insane. You’ll have true 140+ IQ galaxy brains from certain ethnic groups who may not get into any elite universities and the slots will be filled with people from other ethnic groups who might be 80th percentile or so in intelligence 
Topic's author
#20
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
Also even with affirmative action like half or more of the black students at elite universities are descendants of recent African immigrants, not descendants of slaves.  The entire thing is a complete farce 
#21
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
I would like to hear what the educational benefits of diversity would be"
Is Thomas suggesting that having a monolithic student body would produce more well rounded and graduates with broader wisdom?

#22
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@thett3
 You’ll have true 140+ IQ galaxy brains from certain ethnic groups who may not get into any elite universities and the slots will be filled with people from other ethnic groups who might be 80th percentile or so in intelligence 
And that creates its own issues where either you have to fail a lot of students or you have to decrease standards so that the kids who were less intelligent and let in based on ethnicity can pass. NYU just fired a Chemistry teacher that taught decades at Princeton because too many kids were failing his class. I think that when you focus more on diversity than merit in college admissions, you are doomed to have merit and competition deprioritized in all areas of collegiate life. They're treating an arbitrary end as an inherent good for education whereas our sinking global competitiveness in education shows that this cannot be the case.

It’s also really funny (in a fucked up way) to me how in some cases affirmative action harms asian-americans even more than white people. 
I wonder how the Court eliminating Affirmative Action will affect voting by demographics in the short-term and long-term. Asians are those most negatively impacted, yet they still are more likely to vote Democrat- perhaps because it is an issue of the Courts. If Democrats keep "equity" at the center of the agenda, they will likely be forced into amending the Civil Rights Acts to allow for discrimination for equal outcomes. I could see that being a big issue when candidates are browbeaten into running on a platform of disadvantaging their own voters- although, I'll never underestimate the effect of a college education on one's critical thinking skills.
#23
PREZ-HILTON
PREZ-HILTON's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,806
3
4
9
PREZ-HILTON's avatar
PREZ-HILTON
3
4
9
-->
@thett3
I really hope some of the site liberals respond because everything in the ad was true. How is this a “white supremacist” society lol 
Unfortunately I think the site is lacking engagement from intelligent liberals. People who can respond to this intelligently like whiteflame or Ragnar prefer to just speak about specific policies in a very narrow way or not at all, and avoid these types of topics. 

The best we have in the forums is oromagi sadly and best is not exactly a compliment here because really when he isn't copy pasting articles that nobody reads, he is engaging in what aboutism or ad hominem attacks.

.....

My advice to you thett is that you have seen the best arguments even from intelligent liberals and they aren't that great. It's the same shit over and over.

Abortion arguments, the best always concede that personhood is a stupid thing to argue and go with the easy to defeat violinist arguments.

Gun arguments they pull up statistics from places that have never had crime problems like Australia or New Zealand and try to frame the debate around that bullshit.

If you want a liberal who can actually defend any liberalism you basically have to find a marxist and usually a college professor otherwise it is just a stupid true believer weak on philosophy and economics, and they typically would immediately concede that you are right about that ad being honest.


You, me. We have nothing to be gained here except wasting your time.  At best we can influence young people who come here before the left gets a chance to fully indoctrinate them, but it draws away from time that you can spend growing your wealth, power and freedom so you can actually better force your will onto society. 


#24
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,023
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
Is Thomas suggesting that having a monolithic student body would produce more well rounded and graduates with broader wisdom?
Only if they want to learn that the color of your skin does not matter.

#25
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,084
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
So, you might be reasonably arguing that the aforementioned policies discriminated unfairly.

But wherein lies the correlation between white supremacism and Democratic health and welfare policies.


Topic's author
#26
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@bmdrocks21
And that creates its own issues where either you have to fail a lot of students or you have to decrease standards so that the kids who were less intelligent and let in based on ethnicity can pass. NYU just fired a Chemistry teacher that taught decades at Princeton because too many kids were failing his class. I think that when you focus more on diversity than merit in college admissions, you are doomed to have merit and competition deprioritized in all areas of collegiate life. They're treating an arbitrary end as an inherent good for education whereas our sinking global competitiveness in education shows that this cannot be the case.
Yeah there isn’t very much evidence that affirmative action even helps the students who nominally benefit from it. They are often forced to take less rigorous majors or drop out and are often left with lifelong imposter syndrome that can lead to rage-envy. And that spot is taken from a student who would’ve actually would’ve benefited from being at an elite institution 

And it really harms people of their group who deserve to be there because nobody can tell who got in by merit and who got in through affirmative action. Progressives make all of this fuss about studies that show “black” sounding names on resumes get fewer callbacks. Personally I think there’s probably a large class issue there beyond race (somehow I doubt Bubba or Billy-Bob would do well either) but…affirmative action and diversity policies make this behavior ECONOMICALLY RATIONAL. A black guy with Harvard and McKinsey on his resume isn’t the same as an asian guy with Harvard and McKinsey on his resume. He just isn’t. One is probably more intelligent and hard working than the other by an entire standard deviation or more. It doesn’t have to be that way if institutions admitted people on merit.  I’m not convinced affirmative action even helps black/hispanic people at all but it certainly hurts whites and asians. Unbelievably shit policy

I wonder how the Court eliminating Affirmative Action will affect voting by demographics in the short-term and long-term. Asians are those most negatively impacted, yet they still are more likely to vote Democrat- perhaps because it is an issue of the Courts. If Democrats keep "equity" at the center of the agenda, they will likely be forced into amending the Civil Rights Acts to allow for discrimination for equal outcomes. I could see that being a big issue when candidates are browbeaten into running on a platform of disadvantaging their own voters- although, I'll never underestimate the effect of a college education on one's critical thinking skills.
It’s hard to say. It does seem like the dem worshiping of black people has started to alienate other groups, but some of them either buy into it themselves or use it cynically as a bludgeon against white people, who they view as their only real competition. I think ultimately the diversity stuff is something that elites love but the actual people don’t (even black people barely support or oppose affirmative action based on the poll) so on net it will probably be a drag for democrats for a long time.

I mean look at the OP. I know I’m more aware of this stuff than most but I would NEVER support the type of people who do this. It’s fucking disgusting and ghoulish, I would hate it no matter what group it targeted and I know there are many good people in every race who would agree  
Topic's author
#27
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@zedvictor4
So, you might be reasonably arguing that the aforementioned policies discriminated unfairly. 

But wherein lies the correlation between white supremacism and Democratic health and welfare policies.
The first two came directly from the president and vice president. The rationing of covid medicine based on race and not healthcare need is DIRECTLY downstream of the liberal obsession with race and “equity.” 
#28
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,023
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@thett3
I think Zed is caught in a time-loop where the only nationalistic supremacy on the entire globe is white supremacy, which is also no more egregious than the black denigration of low expectations such as voter ID, plane tickets, and access to government funded health solutions.
#29
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,023
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
“poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids,” 

-A President of the USA
Topic's author
#30
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@zedvictor4
Also, leftists are the ones shaming and intimidating white people for having the audacity to complain about….being denied medical care and disaster relief aid on the basis of race