Before we implement the moderation system, it would make sense to decide what rights moderators must have.
For example, I imagine they would be able to remove topics and posts and maybe temporarily ban people. What else? Let's put up a list here.
Moderators rights
Posts
Archived
Read-only
Total:
122
Disciplinary:
1. Post removal
2. Thread closure (I personally dislike when this is used, but it generally exists)
3. Topic removal
4. Ordered separation (temporary "restraining order) between two members
5. Temp-ban
6. Perma-ban
Other:
1. Thread Pinning
I would wait on giving more "other" responsibility for when the community is more grown.
Most websites have three layers of mod. The lowest mods are usually in charge of one sub-forum, one thing (voting) or of dealing with particularly difficult members (counsellor mods) etc.
The counsellor mod concept is something not made public but I know of it due to experience in the IT industry and I know that IT departments in massive corporations have at least one person on the team (which is necessary as not all IT nerds are sociable) dedicated to putting people with tech problems at ease and making repeat-callers calmly reach an understanding of what they're doing to make problems arise again and again and lay them to rest.
The second hierarchy of mod is what most people mean when they say Mod. They can't ban people, only ask rank-1-mods or admins to ban them etc. They can't read PMs, need to ask rank-1-mods or Admins to deal with those kind of reports and can't access any back-end area of the website. They can sometimes temporarily mute forum users, can take away privileges of people and are capable of promoting normal users to rank 3 mods of some sort.
The rank 1 mod is also known as 'god mod' this is what Airmax was on DDO. They are basically admins except for 2 things:
1) They in no way at all legally own or are held liable for the site itself as a brand.
2) While they usually possess a degree of back-end access to the site, it's usually never full in the way that admins have and this limitation extends to the inability to know how to (or inability entirely of) making other people gain such access and become rank 1 mods themselves. They typically can promote people to rank 2 mods but never to rank 1.
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@DebateArt.com
You should consider asking Airmax for the histories of certain members that might populate this site. He's been a good mod, and the information might prove useful.
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@1harderthanyouthink
Stop lying, he's been a horrendously biased mod. He will even admit it. He let people like Bench get away with repeat abuse and bullying and users like Qopel banned permanently within 2 weeks for vote trolling and being 'weird' in the forums.
Yeah I definitely like the idea of having layers. We will have to think about it and decide how it's gonna work here. For now I think it would make sense to start with a functionality to report things and people and with building up an admin interface for that.
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@DebateArt.com
I'm not really sure the use of a layered moderation system for a site as small as this. Later? Sure. But now a simple disciplinary system should suffice for any problems.
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@RationalMadman
Right, well the site must have revolved around you and Bench for what? 5 years? DDO's community would not have survived for as long as it if Max were never moderator. He had missteps but he knew what he was doing.
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@RationalMadman
He was fine.
Ignorance is bliss, love Max and enjoy your blissful ignorance of his corruption.
The problem with Max is his corruption was much more too much lenience than too much harshness. This issue has led to the few who were treated too harshly to have little to bring as evidence in the case against him.
His records of imabench, YYW and Emilrose (currently known as Zeichen) are likely to leave out a lot of their disgusting behaviour and bullying mentality.
They are just 3 prominent ones, there's far more subtlety here. Mikal was involved in direct vote deal-making and arrangements there was PM evidence and stuff. Max let him off with a warning around 5 times. I know for a fact a less popular user would have been permabanned for what Mikal arranged and asked.
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@1harderthanyouthink
You should consider asking Airmax for the histories of certain members that might populate this site. He's been a good mod, and the information might prove useful.
This could result in a bias toward various users.
I am inclined to believe that all DDO members who join this site should have the freedom to start anew, and become acquainted with the owner *without* having their history presenting as a point of reference or topic of discussion.
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@Zeichen
An easier way would just be for those people to change their behaviour, but it seems that isn't working out.
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@1harderthanyouthink
I'm not really sure the use of a layered moderation system for a site as small as this. Later? Sure. But now a simple disciplinary system should suffice for any problems.
No, of course we wouldn't try to create this layered scheme right from the beginning but it would make sense to have it in mind when building the foundation. One thing that bothers me is the security issue that may pop up if some moderator's account gets hacked because this way the attacker may just delete all the posts or ban all the users or something equally bad. So we'd need to come up with some solution here.
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@DebateArt.com
You could have the bulk of the moderation done from a faceless admin account.
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@DebateArt.com
Yeah I definitely like the idea of having layers. We will have to think about it and decide how it's gonna work here. For now I think it would make sense to start with a functionality to report things and people and with building up an admin interface for that.
I hear you say "we" pretty often, and I remember you mentioning that this site has a team working on it. What is their role? Will we ever see them join as users? Will you pick your moderators from them?
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@Castin
Well, I have a couple of friends that help me from time to time, mostly with the front end stuff and general ideas. I don't think there would be much use of them here since they don't speak English lol
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@DebateArt.com
Yeah that might be something of an obstacle. 😊 It's a shame, it would be cool to meet them. Internet meet them, that is.
I think 1harder had a pretty good list up there. Beyond that it's just down to what you're looking for in a mod.
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@Castin
I would add a facility to flag a member as 'on probation' - some sort of 'yellow card' so they can still post but they have been publicly warned and knuckle-rapped.
There are two sides to this. From a developers POV it's just about the tools to be provided, but there is also the tricky question of what policy DA should have. Do we ban a foul-mouted moderate or a polite holocaust denier? Both? neither?
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@keithprosser
if you ban a polite holocaust denier you are not a debate site worth its salt.
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@RationalMadman
What about banning polite pedophilia advocates?
Quite possibly DA members do want to allow pedophiles, flat earthers, racists and fascists to peddle their wares providing they do it politely and without swearing - if so what matters is not the moderator's toolset but who the moderator is.
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@keithprosser
Advocating a change in law and advocating to act against current laws that are not changed are two different things.
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@RationalMadman
Coke and Pepsi are different things too - they just aren't very different!
I suppose i am wondering if moderation can be 'democratized'; i.e decisions about bans etc get taken out the hands of an individual and put in the hands of the wider membership.
I can see practical problems with sock-puppetry and collusion with a simple voting system, but the developers might like to think 'outside the box' as well as 'inside the box' of conventional moderation by one or two elite members.
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@DebateArt.com
Just curious, how are you going to select mods? Will you host an election of sorts for the community to vote, or choose someone you know and trust?Before we implement the moderation system, it would make sense to decide what rights moderators must have.For example, I imagine they would be able to remove topics and posts and maybe temporarily ban people. What else? Let's put up a list here.
Don't let members vote Mike, that will fail. Trust me. Pick them your self.
Give them a probationary period where there only function will be to report problems or potential problems to you. They cannot contact members as a mod or identify as mod.
After you are satisfied, elevate them to mod who can receive member complaints and give warnings, but cannot change posts, threads, or member status.
The advantage of this is that you can start right now. One mod can watch several threads until we have more.
I have someone who would be excellent but will PM you on that. You were on DDO for a while, so you will have some idea of the trolls there. They.will.kill.your.site.
One of them is already here spreading his stink, and was on DDO threatening to come here and troll.
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@ethang5
If you are referring to me I am delighted to know where I threatened to troll DebateArt on DDO.
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@RationalMadman
If you did not so threaten, it cannot be you can it? Don't worry, it isn't you. Mike knows who it is.
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@DebateArt.com
airmax is a great mod candidate, he's fulfilled the role for years and has proven himself a mature, responsible and humble moderator. He's very good at not abusing power and only stepping in when necessary. To top it all off he's a great individual. Would vote him in if we can convince him to join.
airmax is a great mod candidate, he's fulfilled the role for years and has proven himself a mature, responsible and humble moderator. He's very good at not abusing power and only stepping in when necessary. To top it all off he's a great individual. Would vote him in if we can convince him to join.
I agree wholeheartedly.
In a site where there are different people with different cultures and opposing views, he does a great job at maintaining peace and order for all parties. I couldn't think of anyone better than him.
And this site would become the dump DDO currently is. He would instantly form a little clique and let moron trolls run wild.
We will not sit by an watch you guys bring here to Dart exactly what we ran away from at DDO.
Max is welcome, but certainly not as Mod. We know his record, and would like something a little better for this site.
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@ethang5
Then who do you suggest? Max is like the most unbiased person in DDO I can think of. And from what I remember, he did ban trolls, like RM for example.