The case for the Historical Jesus

Author: Shila

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#91
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@Stephen
Well I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.

After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?

I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.
The founders of Christianity appear to have accepted it as a prophecy that related to the coming of the messiah and it is that which matters. This prophesy is also perceived to relate to Jesus supposed virgin birth, which is also fundamental to a belief in the messianic claim.
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#92
Shila
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@BrotherD.Thomas
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Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,

YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANCE IN YOUR WEAK POST #78: "You are quoting verses that came from Paul. Paul was not a disciple of Jesus nor did he meet or follow Jesus like the other disciples did."
"You are quoting verses that came from Paul. Paul was not a disciple of Jesus nor did he meet or follow Jesus like the other disciples did."
In fact Paul claims he saw a vision of Jesus on his way to Damascus where Jesus was admonishing him for persecuting Christians.

Jesus was crucified and resurrected and ascended to heaven in 30AD.
Paul claims he saw a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 in 34 AD. 

Acts 9:. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

Paul was the only one hallucinating and seeing visions. None of the men with Paul saw or heard anything.
SUMMARY Evidence is offered to suggest a neurological origin for Paul's ecstatic visions. Paul's physical state at the time of his conversion is discussed and related to theseecstatic experiences. It is postulated that both were manifestations of temporal lobe epilepsy.

Paul’s words were not corroborate by the other apostles. That is why Paul’s writings are called Pauline Theology.
Your alleged Bachelor's Degree  that your parent's hard earned money paid for, is a waste of money and time since you cannot understand simple biblical logic 101, whereas it is NOT Paul's writings, BUT SIMPLY PUT FOR YOU ONCE AGAIN, it was Jesus' inspired words as shown below in these two passages!
How could Paul quote Jesus when Jesus was crucified in 30 AD.
Paul only discovered Jesus in a  vision in 34AD on the road to Damascus. Paul never knew or met Jesus during Jesus’s life or ministry.
“And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
(1 Thessalonians 2:13) was written by Paul in 51AD that is 21 years after Jesus was crucified and resurrected.
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation, for the prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (2 Peter 1:20-21)

(2 Peter 1:20-21) Was written in 67AD. That is 37 years after Jesus was crucified and resurrected.
Therefore, Jesus, as our serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, inspired the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible, period!!!!   2+2=4, oil and water don't mix, and your biblical knowledge is embarrassingly that of a 2 year old child, enough!
The JUDEO-Christian Bible was written before Jesus was born. 
Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books. The New Testament as a whole quotes from 34 books of the Old Testament Books.
Remember jesus himself declared: Matthew 5:17 (“Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”).

So to say Jesus inspired the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible is not accurate. Jesus himself quoted from 24 different Old Testament books. The New Testament as a whole quotes from 34 books of the Old Testament Books.

SHILA, ENOUGH OF YOUR BIBLE IGNORANCE, CAN YOU GIVE US A BREAK AND TAKE SOME TIME OFF?
Your Bible ignorance is obvious. You just have a high school diploma and earn just 20,000$ annually. You are not qualified to study or preach the Bible. 
Accept the historical Jesus and let the discussions continue.
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#93
Shila
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@Elliott
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Well I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.

After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?

I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.
The founders of Christianity appear to have accepted it as a prophecy that related to the coming of the messiah and it is that which matters. This prophesy is also perceived to relate to Jesus supposed virgin birth, which is also fundamental to a belief in the messianic claim.
Stephen is arguing about the timeline of Isaiah being fulfilled 700 years later.
But we know Daniel was written in 539BC and fulfilled 600 years later.

Nevertheless we are now arguing about prophesies and the fact that Jesus existed is no longer in question should be viewed as progress. 

#94
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It truly must of been really easy to ummmm, play tricks on people back in the days. 

Like , Seeing a magic trick 2000 years ago must of blew peoples minds. 
Imagine the ( rope tied to door and sneakily moved trick two or three thousand years ago )  


With a slightest lack of morals  you could go along way hey?. 
Think of allllllll the tricks you can do to get what you wanted back in the days.  

You just have to Pretend it is god. 
Like. Make the door move with rope.
 You fist say something like. ' God.'   'if you want me to do such and such. Give me a sign. ' 
You then pull the string attached to the door and it is as good as finalized. 

If you  Pull a coin out from behind your wife's ear she is definitely a witch. 
HAS TO BE.  

What i am trying to say is. 
Magic tricks " worked " WAY WAY better a couple of thousand years ago. 


#95
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@Shila


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Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,

YOUR MOST BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE EVER: “So to say Jesus inspired the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible is not accurate.”

WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY YOU STUPID BIBLE FOOL?  HELLO, ANYBODY HOME TODAY?! OBVIOUSLY NOT!

I am truly sorry that your alleged Bachelor's Degree has not taught you to understand simple Biblical deductions relative to Jesus being God, and therefore Jesus as god inspired all of the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible as I have shown you at your dumbfounded expense!  But, what did we expect from an inferior woman like you that is totally Bible illiterate to say that Jesus did not inspire the Bible's writings?

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)

With the passage above that proves my point AGAIN, including 1 Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:20-21, over your Bible stupidity in saying that Jesus did not inspire the Bible writings, are you now calling Timothy a LIAR???!!!


Jesus H. Christ, this esteemed Religion Forum has NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER have seen such a Bible ignorant fool woman like you before, bar none!  Then you have the audacity to continue to make yourself the continued Bible fool, why? 

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#96
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@Shila

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Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,

In prayer with Jesus again, He has told me to show the membership in how many times you have sinned against Him by being a woman and trying to preach to the superior men within your ungodly thread, where you have biblically and absolutely no business in doing so as the passage below so states!  

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)


PAGE 1 THRU 3 OF YOUR UNGODLY THREAD:  The following links thus far in your ungodly thread is where you have slapped Jesus in the face and have sinned against Him because as an inferior woman you are not following the Jesus inspired passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 !  
































SHILA, YOU MUST BE SO SATANICALLY PROUD IN GOING DIRECTLY AGAINST JESUS IN 1 TIMOTHY 2:11-14  AS AN INFERIOR WOMAN IN TRYING TO TEACH THE SUPERIOR MAN IN YOUR OUTRIGHT UNGODLY THREAD RELATIVE TO THE HISTORICAL JESUS! YOU WILL PAY UPON JUDGMENT DAY FOR SURE! (2 CORINTHIANS 5:10)


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#97
Shila
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@Deb-8-a-bull
It truly must of been really easy to ummmm, play tricks on people back in the days. 

Like , Seeing a magic trick 2000 years ago must of blew peoples minds. 
Imagine the ( rope tied to door and sneakily moved trick two or three thousand years ago )  


With a slightest lack of morals  you could go along way hey?. 
Think of allllllll the tricks you can do to get what you wanted back in the days.  

You just have to Pretend it is god. 
Like. Make the door move with rope.
 You fist say something like. ' God.'   'if you want me to do such and such. Give me a sign. ' 
You then pull the string attached to the door and it is as good as finalized. 

If you  Pull a coin out from behind your wife's ear she is definitely a witch. 
HAS TO BE.  

What i am trying to say is. 
Magic tricks " worked " WAY WAY better a couple of thousand years ago.
None of the magic tricks you listed are found in the Bible. That alone suggests the people who put the Bible together were much more sophisticated.

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#98
Shila
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.

Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,

YOUR MOST BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE EVER: “So to say Jesus inspired the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible is not accurate.”

WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY YOU STUPID BIBLE FOOL?  HELLO, ANYBODY HOME TODAY?! OBVIOUSLY NOT!

I am truly sorry that your alleged Bachelor's Degree has not taught you to understand simple Biblical deductions relative to Jesus being God, and therefore Jesus as god inspired all of the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible as I have shown you at your dumbfounded expense!  But, what did we expect from an inferior woman like you that is totally Bible illiterate to say that Jesus did not inspire the Bible's writings?
“The Scriptures” are the words written in the Holy Bible. The Gospel referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings.
Gospels are Jesus Christ’s teachings or revelations. They recount Jesus’ life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection. It is primarily about Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection.

The Word of God is a sacred book that includes God’s message, known as the Scripture. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a vital and enlightening component of Christian spirituality.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
You are quoting the Gospels referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament.
With the passage above that proves my point AGAIN, including 1 Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:20-21, over your Bible stupidity in saying that Jesus did not inspire the Bible writings, are you now calling Timothy a LIAR???!!!
You are quoting the Gospels referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament.
Jesus H. Christ, this esteemed Religion Forum has NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER have seen such a Bible ignorant fool woman like you before, bar none!  Then you have the audacity to continue to make yourself the continued Bible fool, why? 
You don’t even know the difference between scriptures which is the Old Testament and the Gospels which referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. 

You need more than a high school diploma to master the Bible.
#99
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@Elliott
Well I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.

After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?

I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.
The founders of Christianity appear to have accepted it as a prophecy that related to the coming of the messiah and it is that which matters.

Because it suited them to do so.   And what matters, is the truth.



This prophesy is also perceived to relate to Jesus supposed virgin birth, which is also fundamental to a belief in the messianic claim.

Your quote above^^ is what many traditional bibles claim. But is it accurate?

This is what Good News Translation states.


"Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him 'Immanuel.'  "Isaiah 7:14

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

So here above we have a present tense. The young woman is already with child. So unless this young woman undergoes a 700 year pregnancy then this child is not the child that the author of Mathew can possibly be talking about.

It appears then that someone, intentional or not, made a mistranslation (no surprises there then).

 And wouldn't have Isaiah use the Hebrew word for Virgin-  bethulah? 

bethulah: a virgin
Original Word: בְּתוּלָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: bethulah
Phonetic Spelling: (beth-oo-law')
Definition: a virgin





the messianic claim

Jesus only once agree that he was the Messiah. Although he didn't say so outright. But did he fulfil that role that was expected of a Messiah? . 

For instance.

Did he rebuild the Temple?
Did he unite all the Jewish tribes?
Did he free the Jews from the Roman yoke? 
And
Did he bring peace to the world?

And remember this, when Mary is said to conceive this child, did he inherit the throne of Jerusalem/David as was promised by God to his mother? No.
Did he rule over the house of Jacob forever, and did his kingdom will never end? No.

What he inherited was three nails and two bits of wood with a view overlooking the Kidron valley.

You may want to peruse your line of questioning by looking up the word- Alma - and what it means. this link may help you>>







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#100
Shila
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Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,

In prayer with Jesus again, He has told me to show the membership in how many times you have sinned against Him by being a woman and trying to preach to the superior men within your ungodly thread, where you have biblically and absolutely no business in doing so as the passage below so states!  

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)

How Jesus Viewed and Valued Women

Jesus's Countercultural View of Women

The place of women in the first-century Roman world and in Judaism has been well-documented and set forth in several recent books.1 Most frequently, women were regarded as second-class citizens.

Jesus’s regard for women was much different from that of his contemporaries. Evans terms Jesus’s approach to women as “revolutionary” for his era.2 But was his treatment of women out of character with Old Testament revelation, or with later New Testament practice? Other chapters in this volume will show that it was not.

Disciples Come in Two Sexes, Male and Female

For Christ, women have an intrinsic value equal to that of men. Jesus said, “. . . at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God just as men are. Like men, they have self-awareness, personal freedom, a measure of self-determination, and personal responsibility for their actions.

Scanzoni and Hardesty point out that “Jesus came to earth not primarily as a male but as a person. He treated women not primarily as females but as human beings.”3 Jesus recognized women as fellow human beings. Disciples come in two sexes, male and female. Females are seen by Jesus as genuine persons, not simply as the objects of male desire.4 Hurley believes “the foundation-stone of Jesus’s attitude toward women was his vision of them as persons to whom and for whom he had come. He did not perceive them primarily in terms of their sex, age, or marital status; he seems to have considered them in terms of their relation (or lack of one) to God.”5

Three Clear Examples

Examples of this even-handed treatment of women by Jesus are found in the four Gospels.

First, Jesus regularly addressed women directly while in public. This was unusual for a man to do (John 4:27). The disciples were amazed to see Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (John 4:7-26). He also spoke freely with the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11).6 Luke, who gives ample attention to women in his Gospel, notes that Jesus spoke publicly with the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12–13), the woman with the bleeding disorder (Luke 8:48; cf. Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34), and a woman who called to him from a crowd (Luke 11:27–28). Similarly, Jesus addressed a woman bent over for eighteen years (Luke 13:12) and a group of women on the route to the cross (Luke 23:27-31).

A second aspect of Jesus’s regard for the full intrinsic value of women is seen in how he spoke to the women he addressed. He spoke in a thoughtful, caring manner. Each synoptic writer records Jesus addressing the woman with the bleeding disorder tenderly as “daughter” (references above) and referring to the bent woman as a “daughter of Abraham” (Luke 13:16). Bloesch infers that “Jesus called the Jewish women ‘daughters of Abraham’ (Luke 13:16), thereby according them a spiritual status equal to that of men.”7

Third, Jesus did not gloss over sin in the lives of the women he met. He held women personally responsible for their own sin as seen in his dealings with the woman at the well (John 4:16–18), the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11), and the sinful woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:44–50). Their sin was not condoned, but confronted. Each had the personal freedom and a measure of self-determination to deal with the issues of sin, repentance, and forgiveness.

Jesus's Valuation of Women Today

Even though clear role distinction is seen in Christ’s choice of the apostles and in the exclusive type of work they were given to perform, no barriers need exist between a believer and the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of gender. Jesus demonstrated only the highest regard for women, in both his life and teaching. He recognized the intrinsic equality of men and women, and continually showed the worth and dignity of women as persons. Jesus valued their fellowship, prayers, service, financial support, testimony and witness. He honored women, taught women, and ministered to women in thoughtful ways.

As a result, women responded warmly to Jesus’s ministry. Have things changed too drastically today for us to see this same Jesus? Not at all. Modern women can find the same rich fulfillment in serving Christ as did the Marys and Marthas of Judea, or the Joannas and Susannas of Galilee.
PAGE 1 THRU 3 OF YOUR UNGODLY THREAD:  The following links thus far in your ungodly thread is where you have slapped Jesus in the face and have sinned against Him because as an inferior woman you are not following the Jesus inspired passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 !  
1 Timothy 2:11-14 Was written in 63AD. That is 33 years after Jesus was crucified and resurrected. It was written by Paul who never spoke or met the living Jesus.
#101
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Jesus H. Christ, and I thought Tradesecret was bible stupid, whereas you take the cake hands down!

 I have to disagree with you on that one point, BrotherD.

Shila has some way to go before he gets to that Calibur and withing a mile of the bible ignorance and stupidity of the Reverend "tradey" tradesecret.
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#102
Shila
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@Stephen
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Well I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.

After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?

I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.
The founders of Christianity appear to have accepted it as a prophecy that related to the coming of the messiah and it is that which matters.

Because it suited them to do so.   And what matters, is the truth.

That the prophecy was fulfilled establishes it as a fact.

This prophesy is also perceived to relate to Jesus supposed virgin birth, which is also fundamental to a belief in the messianic claim.

Your quote above^^ is what many traditional bibles claim. But is it accurate?

This is what Good News Translation states.


"Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him 'Immanuel.'  "Isaiah 7:14

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

So here above we have a present tense. The young woman is already with child. So unless this young woman undergoes a 700 year pregnancy then this child is not the child that the author of Mathew can possibly be talking about.

It appears then that someone, intentional or not, made a mistranslation (no surprises there then).

 And wouldn't have Isaiah use the Hebrew word for Virgin-  bethulah? 

bethulah: a virgin
Original Word: בְּתוּלָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: bethulah
Phonetic Spelling: (beth-oo-law')
Definition: a virgin



The translation from Hebrew (a single young woman) to virgin in the New Testament was simply stating a fact that women remained virgins till married. Mary was a single woman and a virgin when the angel visited her.

the messianic claim

Jesus only once agree that he was the Messiah. Although he didn't say so outright. But did he fulfil that role that was expected of a Messiaha? .  For instance;

Did he rebuild the Temple?
Did he unite all the Jewish tribes?
Did he free the Jews from the Roman yoke? 
And
Did he bring peace to the world?

And remember this, when Mary is said to conceive this child, did he inherit the throne of Jerusalem/David as was promised by God to his mother? No.
did he rule over the house of Jacob forever, and did his kingdom will never end? No.

What he inherited was three nails and two bits of wood with a view overlooking the Kidron valley.

You may want to peruse your line of questioning by looking up the word- Alma - and what it means.
Jesus changed Gods original mission from being just a messiah to the Jews to saviour of the world.
From:
Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

To:
Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Did he rebuild the Temple?
Did he unite all the Jewish tribes?
Did he free the Jews from the Roman yoke?
And
Did he bring peace to the world?

The Jews turned Jesus from a local messiah to saviour of the world. Today there are over 2 billion followers of Jesus. TheJesus  mission has become universal.

Note: The case for Historical Jesus is moving  from historical facts to biblical facts.

#103
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@Shila
Note: The case for Historical Jesus is moving  from historical facts to biblical facts.

Just as well. It would have died a death had it not moved on as I suggested way back on page one.
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#104
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Jesus H. Christ, and I thought Tradesecret was bible stupid, whereas you take the cake hands down!

 I have to disagree with you on that one point, BrotherD.

Shila has some way to go before he gets to that Calibur and withing a mile of the bible ignorance and stupidity of the Reverend "tradey" tradesecret.
I cannot comment on Reverend Tradesecret. But I am confident he will redeem himself and restore faith in the historical and Biblical Jesus.


#105
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@Shila
I cannot comment on Reverend Tradesecret.
Why ever not? You seem to speak for everyone else even going as far as to put words in the mouths of others, my own included.


But I am confident he will redeem himself and restore faith in the historical and Biblical Jesus.


 I think it speaks for itself that the Reverend Tradesecret will agree that there was an historical and biblical Jesus. Of that there can be no doubt. S/he was, after all, "chosen by god " himself so he must have already received redemption.... in gods eyes only.  This is aside the fact that s/he is a Pastor with " a congregation of over 300" and "a Chaplain to his/her countries defence forces".  Surley he wouldn't hold these positions if he didn't believe in a historical and biblical Jesus?




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#106
Shila
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Note: The case for Historical Jesus is moving  from historical facts to biblical facts.

Just as well. It would have died a death had it not moved on as I suggested way back on page one
You did say you believed Jesus was wrapped in a myth by the early church.

I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
That would be equivalent to rushing through Jesus’s life to get to the crucifixion thus nullifying his life and mission.
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#107
Shila
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@Stephen
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I cannot comment on Reverend Tradesecret.
Why ever not? You seem to speak for everyone else even going as far as to put words in the mouths of others, my own included.


But I am confident he will redeem himself and restore faith in the historical and Biblical Jesus.


 I think it speaks for itself that the Reverend Tradesecret will agree that there was an historical and biblical Jesus. Of that there can be no doubt. S/he was, after all, "chosen by god " himself so he must have already received redemption.... in gods eyes only.  This is aside the fact that s/he is a Pastor with " a congregation of over 300" and "a Chaplain to his/her countries defence forces".  Surley he wouldn't hold these positions if he didn't believe in a historical and biblical Jesus?
So why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.

THURSDAY, JUNE 23, 2022

!!!!!!!!!   UPDATE ON MISS TRADESECRET’S COMICAL AND LAME EXCUSES TO RUN AWAY FROM YOUR LOGICAL BIBLICAL QUESTIONS PRESENTED TO HER BECAUSE SHE CAN’T ADDRESS THEM AND REMAIN INTELLIGENT LOOKING IN THE AFTERMATH, “OTHER THAN TO RUN AWAY FROM THEM AS SHOWN BY THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTED EXAMPLES”   !!!!!!!!!!



MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #1: Tradesecret will call you a “bully,” for making her the Bible fool, or for asking questions that she could not answer, even though the questions asked were logically valid and biblically axiomatic!

MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #2: Tradesecret will accuse you of “stalking” her if you repeat more than once why Tradesecret hasn’t addressed your questions in the first place!

MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #3: Tradesecret will use the ruse of “attacking them personally,” by name calling, which has nothing to do with the questions asked to her. Where the irony is she performs this act as well. Can Tradesecret spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E?  Sure she can.

MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #4: she will just go “SILENT” to your questions in the hopes that you will forget about the fact that you presented them to her in the first place! 

MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #5:  she will give you “cutesy” excuses and images to try and take your mind off of the FACT that she is running away again from your valid axiomatic biblical questions! Child-like, but what did we expect. :(

MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #6: Now if you want to make her the continued Bible fool, she “may” answer you if your question or statement to her is “properly presented to her!“ LOL!

MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #7:  She will tell you that you are not interpreting the scripture correctly, even though it is LITERAL in nature. She disagrees with the literal presentation of any passage or narrative that embarrasses her, then she will come up with another ungodly "convenient interpretation" of said verse to make you wrong!
 
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #8:  She will tell you that what you have found regarding her ungodly and despicable nature is because you have "hacked" into her DA account, and changed her posts to disgusting posts to further embarrass her! Priceless runaway tactic.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #9: She will divert the attention away from her in failing to prove her point by calling you a “creepy old man or a dunce.”

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #10”:  She will use the term that you “Distract and Attack” to save her from further embarrassment to her outright Bible stupidity and ignorance that has no bounds!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #11: She will say that she is not answering personal questions even though she at times presents personal things of hers in her posts, like showing us she is an admitted SEXUAL DEVIANT!  https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEBCZRV

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #12:  When you challenge her to a debate like I did, she will  tell you that you argue like a 12 year old girl or boy and have not matured enough, therefore she will RUN away from debating you, because in essence, she can't debate you in the first place!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #13:  She will tell you that you don’t have a brain and that you are a fake, and you don’t have the background to discuss religion with her.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #14:  She will tell you that you look “dumb” and that you couldn’t really grasp the subject matter, therefore she will RUN AWAY from your posst to her and hide.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #15:  Zeus forbid if you are an Atheist who outright owns her Bible stupidity, because she'll send up a smoke screen to prevent the Atheist from further embarrassing her regarding the Bible, she will call you names and blanket unwarranted claims about your denying any God.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #16:  Her computer tells her that she should not open up webpage links it does not recognize that you have posted to her, therefore releasing her from further biblical embarrassment!  LOL!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #17:  If you make a derogatory comment to her it is enough for her to not address your question, BUT, she makes these same remarks to other members, can we say HYPOCRITE, sure we can!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #18: She will call your posts to her as LIES, therefore there is no need for her to discuss your posts, yes, this is true! Can we call Miss Tradesecret the habitual RUNAWAY? Sure we can!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #19:  She will tell you that your posts are “not worth it” to respond too, in once again showing her outright Bible ignorance to run away from them!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #20:  She will tell you that she doesn’t give a “toss” about your stupid ideas of a post you’ve directed to her, again, in running away from it as usual.

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #21:  When she opens a previous link that was directed to her, and after opening it and it showed her that she was wrong in her perceived biblical knowledge, she will tell you that she DID NOT open said post because she could care less in what you proposed!  LOL

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #22:  She will tell you that you don’t have enough “integrity” to take her time in debating you or answer your questions as a little crybaby!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #23: If she knows you will easily “own her Bible stupidity,” and allegedly you are using a fake personna, she will not debate you or answer your questions, other than to run away and HIDE from them!

MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #24: She will answer questions that she wants to answer, and not other questions that makes her the Bible fool!



We can only assume that poor ol’ Miss Tradesecret, in being the #1 Bible stupid runaway fool of this forum, at one point will have so many excuses piled up not to address questions posed to her, that she will not be able to be in this forum anymore because the MANY EXCUSES that she has will cause her to be SILENT!  LOL!

#108
Stephen
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@Shila
So why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.

viciously.!?

The Brother is a pussycat. He never uses bad language or denigrates anyone, unless you consider that calling someone bible ignorant or a bible fool as being "attacked viciously". 😂 FFS!
#109
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@Stephen
Well I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.

After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?

I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.
The founders of Christianity appear to have accepted it as a prophecy that related to the coming of the messiah and it is that which matters.

Because it suited them to do so.   And what matters, is the truth.



This prophesy is also perceived to relate to Jesus supposed virgin birth, which is also fundamental to a belief in the messianic claim.

Your quote above^^ is what many traditional bibles claim. But is it accurate?

This is what Good News Translation states.


"Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him 'Immanuel.'  "Isaiah 7:14

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

So here above we have a present tense. The young woman is already with child. So unless this young woman undergoes a 700 year pregnancy then this child is not the child that the author of Mathew can possibly be talking about.

It appears then that someone, intentional or not, made a mistranslation (no surprises there then).

 And wouldn't have Isaiah use the Hebrew word for Virgin-  bethulah? 

bethulah: a virgin
Original Word: בְּתוּלָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: bethulah
Phonetic Spelling: (beth-oo-law')
Definition: a virgin





the messianic claim

Jesus only once agree that he was the Messiah. Although he didn't say so outright. But did he fulfil that role that was expected of a Messiah? . 

For instance.

Did he rebuild the Temple?
Did he unite all the Jewish tribes?
Did he free the Jews from the Roman yoke? 
And
Did he bring peace to the world?

And remember this, when Mary is said to conceive this child, did he inherit the throne of Jerusalem/David as was promised by God to his mother? No.
Did he rule over the house of Jacob forever, and did his kingdom will never end? No.

What he inherited was three nails and two bits of wood with a view overlooking the Kidron valley.

You may want to peruse your line of questioning by looking up the word- Alma - and what it means. this link may help you>>


I don’t think I disagree with anything you say there and I am familiar with the possible mistranslation regarding the word “virgin.”
 
I think the argument as to whether Jesus existed or not will continue but will not be resolved. You say what matters, is the truth but for a believer truth is revealed through faith.
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#110
Shila
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@Stephen
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So why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.

viciously.!?

The Brother is a pussycat. He never uses bad language or denigrates anyone, unless you consider that calling someone bible ignorant or a bible fool as being "attacked viciously". 😂 FFS!

Calling a Reverend a bible fool should be taken seriously. That is attacking the core of his being and Christian mission.

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#111
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@Elliott
I don’t think I disagree with anything you say there and I am familiar with the possible mistranslation regarding the word “virgin.”
 
You stopped processing  after the word virgin. 
I think the argument as to whether Jesus existed or not will continue but will not be resolved. You say what matters, is the truth but for a believer truth is revealed through faith.
Jesus’s birth is connected to the word virgin as in virgin birth. Why is it so difficult to resolve Jesus existed when virgins are found everywhere?
#112
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@Elliott
You say what matters, is the truth but for a believer truth is revealed through faith.

Nice thought, but is that truth?
#113
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@Shila
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So why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.

viciously.!?

The Brother is a pussycat. He never uses bad language or denigrates anyone, unless you consider that calling someone bible ignorant or a bible fool as being "attacked viciously". 😂 FFS!

Calling a Reverend a bible fool should be taken seriously.
Why?  He says it doesn't bother him. ..... but then he whines and whinges about being stalked and "attacked". The reverend doesn't know his arse from his elbow at the best of time.


That is attacking the core of his being and Christian mission.

I think you mean questioning the core of his beliefs....and his/her bible knowledge.. Deary me, there there, never mind. It will all come off when it's dry. 

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@Stephen
-> @Shila
--> @Shila
So why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.

viciously.!?

The Brother is a pussycat. He never uses bad language or denigrates anyone, unless you consider that calling someone bible ignorant or a bible fool as being "attacked viciously". 😂 FFS!

Calling a Reverend a bible fool should be taken seriously.
Why?  He says it doesn't bother him. ..... but then he whines and whinges about being stalked and "attacked". The reverend doesn't know his arse from his elbow at the best of time.


That is attacking the core of his being and Christian mission.

I think you mean the core of his beliefs. Deary me, there there, never mind. It will all come off when it's dry.
I would like to invite the Reverend here and help him restore some pastoral dignity. Can you deal with your pussycat?
#115
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@Shila
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--> @Shila
So why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.

viciously.!?

The Brother is a pussycat. He never uses bad language or denigrates anyone, unless you consider that calling someone bible ignorant or a bible fool as being "attacked viciously". 😂 FFS!

Calling a Reverend a bible fool should be taken seriously.
Why?  He says it doesn't bother him. ..... but then he whines and whinges about being stalked and "attacked". The reverend doesn't know his arse from his elbow at the best of time.


That is attacking the core of his being and Christian mission.

I think you mean the core of his beliefs. Deary me, there there, never mind. It will all come off when it's dry.
I would like to invite the Reverend here and help him restore some pastoral dignity. Can you deal with your pussycat?

You say that as if I have influence. I don't. The Brother is his own man just as the Reverend is his/her own whatever s/he is calling herself on any given day.
Besides, what or who can stop the Reverend joining any thread on the whole forum s/he chooses? 

What makes you believe he would want to join your thread anyway. From what I can gather, you are not his\her pinup boy and you both appear to have some old axe to grind. Or is that just let's pretend? 

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@Stephen
I would like to invite the Reverend here and help him restore some pastoral dignity. Can you deal with your pussycat?

You say that as if I have influence. I don't. The Brother is his own man just as the Reverend is his/her own whatever s/he is calling herself on any given day.
Besides, what or who can stop the Reverend joining any thread on the whole forum s/he chooses? 

What makes you believe he would want to join your thread anyway. From what I can gather, you are not his pinup boy and you both appear to have some old axe to grind.
I did correct the Reverend over his scriptures.and gender dysphoria. But it was done very professionally.

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@Shila
I would like to invite the Reverend here and help him restore some pastoral dignity. Can you deal with your pussycat?

You say that as if I have influence. I don't. The Brother is his own man just as the Reverend is his/her own whatever s/he is calling herself on any given day.
Besides, what or who can stop the Reverend joining any thread on the whole forum s/he chooses? 

What makes you believe he would want to join your thread anyway. From what I can gather, you are not his pinup boy and you both appear to have some old axe to grind.
I did correct the Reverend over his scriptures.

That I suppose is part of the purpose of a religion forum. Did he cry when you "corrected" him/her?  S/he usually does when I have had to correct the bible ignorant clown. S/he calls this an attack and bullying.


and gender dysphoria. But it was done very professionally.

It has never concerned me what he/she wants to be, is or was. I will admit that I was always curious why a man chosen by god would want to tell lies about hi/herself to begin with. Still, that his/her business. 

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@Stephen
I did correct the Reverend over his scriptures.

That I suppose is part of the purpose of a religion forum. Did he cry when you "corrected" him/her?  S/he usually does when I have had to correct the bible ignorant clown. S/he calls this an attack and bullying.


and gender dysphoria. But it was done very professionally.

It has never concerned me what he/she wants to be, is or was. I will admit that I was always curious why a man chosen by god would want to tell lies about hi/herself to begin with. Still, that his/her business. 
I hate to see a Reverend reduced to a bible fool. Maybe he is not very articulate.
We know Jesus was crucified because he was misunderstood. 

#119
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@Shila
I did correct the Reverend over his scriptures.

That I suppose is part of the purpose of a religion forum. Did he cry when you "corrected" him/her?  S/he usually does when I have had to correct the bible ignorant clown. S/he calls this an attack and bullying.


and gender dysphoria. But it was done very professionally.

It has never concerned me what he/she wants to be, is or was. I will admit that I was always curious why a man chosen by god would want to tell lies about hi/herself to begin with. Still, that his/her business. 
I hate to see a Reverend reduced to a bible fool.

Well he/she doesn't believe s/he is, does s/he?  


Maybe he is not very articulate.

Are you kidding me!!?  Have you not read his ever-increasing list qualifications and accolades? He was taught and trained by the best in the business. He translates ancient languages into English. He has been taught to memorise the bible from a very early age, he charges universities to tutor their students and he is a criminal lawyer!!  And you say he is not articulate!!?  Behave yourself shila.😂



We know Jesus was crucified because he was misunderstood. 

 Jesus was crucified for upsetting the status quo and the Jewish elders understood perfectly the threat he posed to them.
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@Stephen
I hate to see a Reverend reduced to a bible fool.

Well he/she doesn't believe s/he is, does s/he?  


Maybe he is not very articulate.

Are you kidding me!!?  Have you not read his ever-increasing list qualifications and accolades? He was taught and trained by the best in the business. He translates ancient languages into English. He has been taught to memorise the bible from a very early age, he charges universities to tutor their students and he is a criminal lawyer!!  And you say he is not articulate!!?  Behave yourself shila.😂

If you and pussycat found  him very articulate , why are you two treating him like he is a bible fool?

We know Jesus was crucified because he was misunderstood. 

 Jesus was crucified for upsetting the status quo and the Jewish elders understood perfectly the threat he posed to them.
Why were the Jewish elders upset if Jesus was their promised messiah?