The case for the Historical Jesus

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#511
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I am going  to draw the small differences between Christianity and Catholicism.

Catholicism

Place of origin Roman province of Judea, which is part of present-day Israel, Palestine and Lebanon
Place of worship Church, chapel, cathedral, basilica.
Use of statues and pictures Crosses, statues and pictures are acceptable in Catholicism. Catholics widely use them as depictions of Christ, Mary, and the Saints.
Belief of God One God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Apostles and Nicene's Creed states beliefs
Clergy Heirarchial clergy in Holy Orders Deacons, monks, nuns, Priests and Bishops, other ranks are only offices (archibshop, cardinal Pope etc. although several other offices also exist)
Founder Jesus Christ, St. Peter the Apostle.
Literal Meaning catholic - from the Greek adjective καθολικός, (katholikos) meaning "general" or "universal".
Life after death Eternal Salvation in Heaven; Eternal Damnation in Hell; Temporal third state before Heaven for those who desire purification, known as Purgatory.
Means of salvation Received at baptism; may be lost by mortal sin; salvation through faith and penance. Belief in Jesus as the sole savior of humanity. Must have a relationship with Jesus. Good Works. Seven Sacraments.
Human Nature Man has inherited "original sin" from Adam. Mankind then is inherently evil and is in need of forgiveness of their sin.
Practices Catholics are expected to participate in the liturgical life, celebrate and revere Jesus' sacrifice on the cross at Mass. The celebration of seven sacraments Baptism, Eucharist, Confirmation, Matrimony, Anointing of Sick, Holy Orders and Confession.
Goal of religion To give glory to God and share Eternal Life in Him.
View of the Buddha N/A
Marriage Marriage is sacrament between one man and one woman. Divorce does not exist in Catholicism, but there is annulment (that the marriage was invalid to begin with) by competent church official.
Confessing sins Confess to priests for absolution from sins in the name of Christ (John 20:22-23). Prayer to the Saints.
Religious Law 10 Commandments, Canon law , Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), papal decrees and orders.
About Belonging to the Church Founded By Christ, when He chose St. Peter as His Rock (first Pope). Apostles creed gives summary of Catholic creed, man fell and Christ came to redeem mankind.
Concept of Deity Believe in the Trinity. Three persons in one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Holy days Sundays; Solemnity of Mary, January 1; Ascension of Jesus, May 13 — Celebrated on the sixth Thursday after Easter Sunday; Solemnity of All Saints, November 1; Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, December 8; Christmas, December 25
Second coming of Jesus Affirmed.
God's role in salvation God sent His only Divine Son to save humanity from their sins.
Belief Believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the King of Heaven, and Saviour of the entire world.
Holy days/Official Holidays Sunday (The Lord's Day), Advent, Christmas, Lent, Holy Week, Easter, Pentecost.
Religion which atheists may still be adherents of None. Faith is integral to Catholicism, a christian who rejects Christianity altogether is considered an Apostate. Atheism is a sin against Faith.
Identity of Jesus God Incarnate. Son of the Father. The Messiah saviour of mankind sole mediator between God and man.
Position of Mary The Queen of all Saints. View is similar to the Orthodox church - the title 'Mother of God' being used more commonly than Theotokos. In addition, it is claimed that at various points in history, Mary has revealed herself to the world in apparitions.
Virtue on which religion is based upon Love.
Original Languages Latin and Greek; Aramaic, Hebrew.
Population 1.33 Billion Globally
Geographical distribution and predominance Roman Catholic church is located in Vatican City, an independent City-state. Catholicism is geographically dispersed throughout the world. 69% of Catholics are located in Latin America.
Scriptures Holy Bible, a collection of 73 canonical books in two parts, 46 in the Old Testament, and 27 in the New Testament.
Goal of Philosophy Eternal Salvation.
Promised Holy one. Second Coming of Christ
Birth of Jesus Virgin Birth, through God.
Resurrection of Jesus Affirmed
Authority of Dalai Lama N/A.
Death of Jesus Death by Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Ascent to Hevean
View of other Abrahamic religions According to Catholic doctrine, Catholicism is the original Christian Church. Christianity is the true religion, and Catholicism is true Christianity.
Ressurection of Jesus Affirmed
Branches Latin rite & Eastern rite and as of 2008 the Anglo-Catholic derivative of Latin Rite; Orthodox Christianity.
Praying to Saints, Mary, and Angel Allowed. They can intercede with God on your behalf.
View of other Dharmic religions N/A
Rites 7 Sacraments: Baptism, Eucharist, Penance, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, Anointing of the Sick; exorcisms, blessings of objects, dedication of churches sacred garments installation into clerical offices. Roman Missal and eastern rites.
Day of worship Worship should be a continual process in the lives of Roman Catholics. Sunday is not the only day Catholics can attend Church for Mass.
Offshoot religions Protestant denominations and many others.
Use of statues Permitted. Statues are not worshipped.
Authority of Pope Successor of St. Peter.
Original Language Ecclesiastical Latin and Greek; also Aramaic and Hebrew historically. Vernacular languages are permitted.
Prophet Moses, Abraham, John the Baptist, many others.
View of Animistic religions Pagan Idolatrous.
Legislation Canon Law, diocesan Law, Papal Decree.
View of other Oriental religions N/A.
Direction of Prayer Facing the Blessed Sacrament (when in Church).
Purgatory Affirmed
View of God Trinitarian: God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


#512
BrotherD.Thomas
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THE CASE FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS WHERE HE IS JUST A COPYCAT GOD OF MITHRAISM:

Mithraism, cloaked in mystery and secrecy, has captivated the imaginations of scholars for generations. Many facts discovered sheds vital light on the cultural dynamics that led to the rise of Christianity. The National Geographic Society’s book “Great Religions of the World,” page 309 writes; “By Jesus’ time, East and West had mingled here for three centuries. Down columns of boulevards walked Roman soldiers loyal to the Persian god Mithras.” Mithras was a Persian deity. He was also the most widely venerated god in the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus. The Catholic Encyclopedia as well as the early Church Fathers found this religion of Mithras very disturbing, as there are so many similarities between the two religions, as follows: 

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithra religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.  Hmmmm, this sounds familiar, doesn't it? :(

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.  WTF? Mithra, that was before Jesus, was born on the same day as Jesus?  :(

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.  
Alright, this is getting embarrassing in showing that our Christian Jesus is a COPYCAT God of Mithra!

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.  Alright, this is to close to our Jesus' modus operandi! 

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood. Yep, Just like Jesus "hanging around" his 12 disciple MEN. :(

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).  Wait a damn minute, Jesus ascended into heaven as well! Shyte!

Damn it, as we can see, Christianity derived many of its essential elements from the ancient pagan religion of Mithraism after the FACT of Mithraism existing before Jesus!  Mithraism became intertwined with the cult of Jesus to form what is known today as “Christianity.” Although literary sources on this religion are sparse, an abundance of material evidence exists in the many Mithraic temples and artifacts that archaeologists have found scattered throughout the Roman Empire, from England in the north and west to Palestine in the south and east. The temples were usually built underground in caves, which are filled with an extremely elaborate iconography (illustrating by pictures, figures and images). There were many hundreds of Mithraic temples in the Roman Empire, the greatest concentrations have been found in the city of Rome itself! 


"Regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact unfortunately will remain that Mithraism was first and Christianity was second, as it copied Mithraism almost to the letter!!!

Oh well, I still love my "Copycat Jesus to Mithra" because like I have said many times, Jesus' word within the scriptures foretells of NO WOMAN in Heaven, where the man had to put up with woman on earth, whereas their Sister Eve was the cause of the Original Sin and men have been paying for it ever since!


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Topic's author
#513
Shila
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Let’s take a look at the claims made in post#512  and separate truth from fiction.


Claim: Mithras was born of a virgin on December 25th, in a cave, attended by shepherds
Truth: Mithras was actually born out of solid rock, leaving a hole in the side of a mountain (presumably described as a “cave”). He was not born of a virgin (unless you consider the rock mountain to have been a virgin). His birth was celebrated on December 25th, but the first Christians knew this was not the true date of Christ’s birth anyway, and both Mithraic worshippers and the early Roman Church borrowed this celebration from earlier winter solstice celebrations. Shepherds are part of Mithraism, witnessing his birth and helping Mithras emerge from the rock, but interestingly, the shepherds exist in the birth chronology at a time when humans are not supposed to have been yet born. This, coupled with the fact the earliest version of this part of the Mithraic mythology emerges one hundred years after the appearance of the New Testament, infers it is far more likely this portion of Mithraism was borrowed from Christianity rather than the other way around.

Claim: Mithras was considered a great traveling teacher and master
Truth: There is nothing in the Mithraic tradition indicating he was a teacher of any kind, but he was could have been considered a master of sorts. This would not be unexpected of any deity, however. Most mythologies describe their gods in this way.

Claim: Mithras had 12 companions or disciples
Truth: There is no evidence for any of this in the traditions of Iran or Rome. It is possible the idea Mithras had 12 disciples is simply derived from murals in which Mithras is surrounded by twelve signs and personages of the Zodiac (two of whom are the moon and the sun). Even this imagery is post Christian, and, therefore, did not contribute to the imagery of Christianity (although it could certainly have borrowed from Christianity).

Claim: Mithras promised his followers immortality
Truth: While there is little evidence for this, it is certainly reasonable to think Mithras might have offered immortality, as this is not uncommon for any God of mythology.

Claim: Mithras performed miracles
Truth: Of course this is true, as this too was not uncommon for mythological characters.

Claim: Mithras sacrificed himself for world peace
Truth: There is little or no evidence this is true, although there is a story about Mithras slaying a threatening bull in a heroic deed. But that’s about as close as it gets.

Claim: Mithras was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again, and Mithras was celebrated each year at the time of His resurrection (later to become Easter)
Truth: There is nothing in the Mithraic tradition indicating he ever even died, let alone resurrected. Tertullian did write about Mithraic believers re-enacting resurrection scenes, but he wrote about this occurring well after New Testament times. Christianity could not, therefore, have borrowed from Mithraic traditions, but the opposite could certainly be true.

Claim: Mithras was called “the Good Shepherd”, and was identified with both the Lamb and the Lion
Truth: There is no evidence that Mithras was ever called “the Good Shepherd” or identified with a lamb, but since Mithras was a sun-god, there was an association with Leo (the House of the Sun in Babylonian astrology), so one might say he was associated with a Lion. But once again, all of this evidence is actually post New Testament; Mithraic believers may once again have borrowed this attribute from Christianity.

Claim: Mithras was considered to be the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
Truth: Based on the researched and known historic record of the Mithraic traditions, none of these terms has ever been applied to Mithras with the exception of “mediator”. But this term was used in a very different from how Christians used the term. Mithras was not the mediator between God and man but the mediator between the good and evil gods of Zoroaster.

Claim: Mithraic believers celebrated Sunday as Mithras’ sacred day (also known as the “Lord’s Day,”)
Truth: This tradition of celebrating Sunday is only true of Mithraic believers in Rome and it is a tradition that dates to post Christian times. Once again, it is more likely to have been borrowed from Christianity than the other way around.

Claim: Mithraic believers celebrated a Eucharist or “Lord’s Supper”
Truth: Followers of Mithras did not celebrate a Eucharist, but they did celebrate a fellowship meal regularly, just as did many other groups in the Roman world.

From this quick examination of the Mithraic comparisons, it should be obvious Mithras isn’t much like Jesus after all. It’s not unusual for the characteristics of ancient pre-Christian deities to be exaggerated in an effort to make them sound like Jesus. The first step in refuting such claims is to simply investigate the attributes carefully. Beyond this, we must also recognize the expectations and yearnings people have related to the existence of God. The Bible rightly describes this yearning and the innate knowledge each of us has related to God’s existence (Romans 1:18-20 and 2:12-16). We shouldn’t be surprised ancient people (created in the image of God) would think deeply about the nature of this God. Many alleged similarities between pre-Christian mythologies and Jesus are extremely general in nature and would be expected from anyone considering the existence of a Divine Creator. Primitive cultures interested in God’s nature reasoned He would have the ability to perform miracles, teach humans and form disciples. These universal expectations fail to invalidate the historicity of Jesus. As Paul recognized on Mars Hill (Acts 17:22-31), men thought deeply about the nature of God prior to His arrival as Jesus. Sometimes they imagined the details correctly, sometimes they didn’t.

The pagan cult Mithraism was replaced by Christianity. Iran today is a Muslim country. No mention of this cult in India or China.
#514
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@Shila
Well, I don't struggle.

And in the truest definition of the word, I am atheist.

Though I might loosely be regarded as having some deistic type data on board. But not in the magical mystery man sense of the word.

As for the character popularly referred to as Jesus, I think that I have already stated to you that I think it highly likely to have been based upon a real human being. But was he the son of a GOD that raped a virgin, I doubt it very much. Hence, we have tales of mystery men, embellished with misogynistic fantasy. In short, a mythology.

Ascension into modernity is certainly a dramatic turn of phrase, but only really means spreading and becoming popular relative to intellectual and social development. Though I'm not sure how well misogyny and rape ascend into Western modernity. But I suppose if you drum this stuff into children's heads soon enough, they will grow up accepting it as acceptable.

Nonetheless, people are still searching for something that cannot be found, and so are still heavily reliant upon fantasy hypotheses.
Topic's author
#515
Shila
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@zedvictor4
Well, I don't struggle.
Is it because the case of the Historical Jesus was written in a way that was easily digestible?
And in the truest definition of the word, I am atheist.

Though I might loosely be regarded as having some deistic type data on board. But not in the magical mystery man sense of the word.
 By not confusing your deistic type data with the magical mystery man sense of the word. You will have less unknowns in your life or profile.
As for the character popularly referred to as Jesus, I think that I have already stated to you that I think it highly likely to have been based upon a real human being. But was he the son of a GOD that raped a virgin, I doubt it very much. Hence, we have tales of mystery men, embellished with misogynistic fantasy. In short, a mythology.
Thank you for admitting on this thread you accept the Historical Jesus did exist.
The Bible does not say the Historical Jesus raped a virgin. In fact there is no mention of Jesus in any intimate relationship with women. The son of God is in the Bible. You are propagating the myth Jesus raped a virgin. So yes there are others like you who spread this mythology.
Ascension into modernity is certainly a dramatic turn of phrase, but only really means spreading and becoming popular relative to intellectual and social development. Though I'm not sure how well misogyny and rape ascend into Western modernity. But I suppose if you drum this stuff into children's heads soon enough, they will grow up accepting it as acceptable.
Jesus’s ascension into modernity was dramatic and 2 billion Christians will attest to that. True his ascension into modernity would not have  been possible without means of spreading and becoming popular relative to intellectual and social development.
Misogyny and rape ascended into western culture independently so did millions of bastards till abortions put a check on its growth. But with th3 Supreme Court abolishing abortions they (bastards) will grow up accepting it as acceptable.
Nonetheless, people are still searching for something that cannot be found, and so are still heavily reliant upon fantasy hypotheses.
But if they were looking for the historical Jesus instead of still heavily reliant upon fantasy hypotheses, they would have found him as easily as you did by just reading the case for the Historical Jesus.
#516
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@Shila
Nope, I suggested that a man masquerading as the son of a fantasy GOD probably existed some 2000 years ago. A man that latterly became widely attributed with the name of Jesus.

And I also suggested that this Jesus character was said to have been the son of a human virgin female and a misogynistic fantasy rapist.

If I suggested that GOD was blue, you would no doubt say that I was agreeing that GOD was yellow. Such is your methodology.
#517
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@Shila


Shila,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE!: "The pagan cult Mithraism was replaced by Christianity."

Your coming to terms with Mithraism in being pagan, and then admitting that Christianity was pagan as well by replacing Mithraism, is BLASPHEME!

Regardless of your child like apologetic attempt in your vain post #513 in trying not to connect Mithraism with Christianity, the fact unfortunately will remain that Mithraism was FIRST with its propositions of faith,  and Christianity was SECOND with the same propositions as Mithraism, as it outright copied Mithraism, therefore, our Jesus is a COPYCAT GOD OF MITHRA!  2+2=4!

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#518
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THE CASE FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS AS GOD, WHERE HE IS AN OUTRIGHT "FETUS AND BABY KILLER!"


Jesus, as God, controls EVERYTHING as the biblical axioms show below, even performing, or allowing the murder of innocent fetus' and babies!  Therefore, Jesus cannot be ever loving and forgiving in any way whatsoever as some Bible ignorant pseudo-christians believe.  :(

"Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand." (Proverbs 19:21)

"The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps." (Proverbs 16:9)

JESUS SAID: "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." (Jeremiah 29:11)

"Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases." (Pslam 115:3)


Since Jesus as God controls EVERYTHING, then here are but a FEW of many biblical axioms showing that our Jesus MURDERED innocent fetus' and babies. Sad indeed. 


1.  God/Jesus slays the fruit of the womb of the women in Ephraim, which equals amurdering abortion. (Hosea 9:11-16)  

2. God/Jesus allows the killing of women that have been with men, which equals aborting of fetus’ of pregnant women. (Numbers 31:17) 

3. God/Jesus promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and “their women with child shall be ripped up”.  Once again Jesus kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers, which equals murder and abortion. (Hosea 13:16) 

4. God/Jesus allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be “ripped open” which is hardly a pro-life stance, in murdering the fetus within the womb! (2 Kings 15:16) 

5. God/Jesus commands the death of helpless “suckling” infants.  This literally means that the children Jesus killed were still nursing, despicable! (1 Samuel 15:3) 

6.  God/Jesus is praised for slaughtering little babies!  (Psalms 135:8 & 136:10) 

7. God/Jesus is appeased that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks.” (Psalms 137:9) 


Once again, the TRUE Christian like myself has to accept that our Jesus was a brutal serial killer of "INNOCENT" fetus' and babies, how sad.  :(


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#519
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THE CASE FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS AS GOD WHERE HE STATES IN HOW TO DRASTICALLY PARENT YOUR CHILDREN!


The examples below are to be followed by the TRUE Christian because they’re in the Bible for parenting instruction, and who is any pseudo-christian to argue with Jesus' direct inspired words below? NO ONE!


JESUS SAYS TO HATE YOUR CHILDREN. 

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) 


JESUS SAYS YOU ARE TO BEAT YOUR CHILDREN, OUCH! 

"Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." (Proverbs 13:24)

"Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him." (Proverbs 22:15) 

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14) 


JESUS SAYS DISOBEDIENT CHILDREN MUST BE KILLED! 

"He that smitten his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death." (Exodus 21:15) 

"He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:17) 

" For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9) 

"God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4) 


JESUS' INSTRUCTIONS FOR SELLING YOUR DAUGHTER 

"And if a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as the menservants, If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who had designated her for himself, he must allow her to be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, since he has broken faith with her.…" (Exodus 21:7-8)) 


JESUS SAYS THAT SOMETIMES IT IS NECESSARY TO SACRIFICE YOUR CHILDREN, HOW SAD 

Jephthah sacrifices his daughter to Jesus as God: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands,  whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”. (Judges 11:30-31) 

“When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels where she was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter.  When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.” (Judges 11:34-35)

“You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry.  After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.”  (Judges 11:38-39)

Lot, who was a just and righteous man (2 Peter 2:7-8) and therefore a biblical model for fathers everywhere, offered his daughters to a sex-crazed crowd, and then got drunk later and impregnated them in a cave. (Genesis 19:8, 19:31-36)  Great biblical moral for any Christian family to follow!


Again, ALL Christians have to accept the fact that we are to follow Jesus' propositions regarding our children as explicitly shown above, because who are we to not follow Jesus' inspired words within the scriptures?!

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#520
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Again, ALL Christians have to accept the fact that we are to follow Jesus' propositions regarding our children as explicitly shown above, because who are we to not follow Jesus' inspired words within the scriptures?!

Well, it has been said that "the bible should be taken literally", Brother D. And the dilemma must be excruciating.
#521
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@Stephen
 
Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE IN THE FACT THAT CHRISTIANS ARE TO FOLLOW EVERY WORD THAT JESUS BRINGS FORTH IN THE WAY OF BEATING YOUR CHILDREN WITH A HARD ROD: "Well, it has been said that "the bible should be taken literally", Brother D. And the dilemma must be excruciating."

YES, it was excruciating!  Case in point, when Jesus said that I can beat my children with a "hard rod," leaving black and blue marks upon their skin, I did so because it saved them from Hell like He said in Proverbs 23:13-14.  ALL of my offspring didn't like the beatings in this respect, but afterwords, they toed the mark until they got out of line again for more beatings, praise!

All Christians have to remember this Jesus inspired passage herewith and follow it regarding the beating with a rod of their children that get out of line: “Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.” (James 1:22). Who am I to usurp Jesus' inspired words in this respect, NOT ME!


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#522
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@Tradesecret
@Shila

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THE CASE FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS WHERE HE CREATES SEVERE BIRTH DEFECTS UPON INNOCENT BABIES!


How many times have we heard Christians praise their Jesus as God when subsequent to a birth of theirs, they thank Him because little Tommy is perfect and has all his little toes and fingers, and is healthy overall.  But, when an innocent baby is born with horrific birth defects, that same Christian remains silent.  WHY?  

If God/Jesus allowed a baby to be born without disgusting birth defects and thanked profusely, then it only precludes that the same God/Jesus allowed a baby to be born with terrible birth defects!  2+2=4.  In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too in this respect, get it pseudo-christian fools?


The following passages are the scary truth about Jesus’ modus operandi regarding this topic where part of Jesus’ description relating to birth defects is herewith: “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;  all things have been created through him and for him.” (Colossians 1:16) Therefore, severe birth defects were created by Jesus!!!

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:1-3)

“God, not chance, decides what happens in human affairs.” (Proverbs  16:33). 

“Behind every circumstance is the Lord.” (Amos 3:6).


Therefore, relative to Jesus' modus operandi of creating EVERYTHING, then Jesus in fact, caused incredible birth defects upon innocent babies when born! 


Christians, with the Biblical FACTS shown above showing that Jesus as God created ALL THINGS, ask yourself, why does God/Jesus allow these poor babies shown in the horrific links below to be born with such severe birth defects? WHY???!!!




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#523
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@BrotherD.Thomas
You really don't know Christians very well at all, or unless you just have a very warped group in your background. 

We thank and praise God for every child born. In our view every child is perfect even if others think there are issues. 


#524
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@Stephen


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Stephen,
 
Like I have told the Bible dumbfounded Shila, I am taking over her ungodly thread about the case for the REAL Historical Jesus, because as I have shown this Bible inept fool, she goes directly against Jesus' words within the scriptures as her being a woman by violating this passage: "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." 

In Shila slapping Jesus' face by not following the passage above, this is barring her complete Bible stupidity in "trying" to refute my posts showing the REAL JESUS as I have described Him in my posts in Shila's former thread that Jesus' true words and I  now control, praise!

Shila has to learn her place in Jesus' godly scheme of things, whereas she was only put upon earth to serve man, period! Furthermore, men that want to please Jesus as God, will escape from the woman: “I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.” (Ecclesiastes 7:26)

.

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@Tradesecret

Brother D. wrote: Therefore, relative to Jesus' modus operandi of creating EVERYTHING, then Jesus in fact, caused incredible birth defects upon innocent babies when born!
Christians, with the Biblical FACTS shown above showing that Jesus as God created ALL THINGS, ask yourself, why does God/Jesus allow these poor babies shown in the horrific links below to be born with such severe birth defects? WHY???!!!




Tradesecret wrote: -->@BrotherD.Thomas
You really don't know Christians very well at all, or unless you just have a very warped group in your background. 

We thank and praise God for every child born. In our view every child is perfect even if others think there are issues. 
REALY! Not even your own god accepts deformity.
And you say the Brother is "warped"!?  You are simply denying reality. And on many, many levels, Tradesecret. And here is just one level that you have forgotten:


Leviticus 21:16-22

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God.

So, while your god rejects the "imperfect" you praise and thank him for them.


And you say the Brother is "warped"!?

#526
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@Tradesecret


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MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, says the Bible contradicts itself, and says that the Bible contradicts itself, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!”


YOUR QUOTE IN YOUR WEAK AND EVER SO WANTING RUNAWAY POST #523: "We thank and praise God for every child born. In our view every child is perfect even if others think there are issues."

There you are!  Good girl, you finally got the nerve to "try" and re-enter and engage within the former Shila's thread about the Case for the Historical Jesus, good girl!

Guess what you forgot? Come on, guess? LOL!  YES, you forgot to answer in why Jesus allows babies to be born without birth defects, and then allows babies to be born with some of the most horrific birth defects as shown in my links below, in my post #522!   

Furthermore, you said that you thank and praise our serial killer Jesus that every baby born is perfect, even if others think there are issues. Therefore, in your inept bible ignorance and outside of the Bible thinking, are there issues with the babies shown in the links below, and why did Jesus give these babies such disgusting birth defects?


Take your time dear in your answer to the above questions, don't be too quick in making yourself the continued Bible fool of this Religion Forum, okay?  

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#527
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@Tradesecret

Brother D. wrote: Therefore, relative to Jesus' modus operandi of creating EVERYTHING, then Jesus in fact, caused incredible birth defects upon innocent babies when born!
Christians, with the Biblical FACTS shown above showing that Jesus as God created ALL THINGS, ask yourself, why does God/Jesus allow these poor babies shown in the horrific links below to be born with such severe birth defects? WHY???!!!




Tradesecret wrote: -->@BrotherD.Thomas
You really don't know Christians very well at all, or unless you just have a very warped group in your background. 

We thank and praise God for every child born. In our view every child is perfect even if others think there are issues. 
REALY! Not even your own god accepts deformity.
And you say the Brother is "warped"!?  You are simply denying reality. And on many, many levels, Tradesecret. And here is just one level that you have forgotten:


Leviticus 21:16-22

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God.

So, while your god rejects the "imperfect" you praise and thank him for them.


And you say the Brother is "warped"!?


#528
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret


Stephen,

YOUR REVEALING LINK THAT ONCE AGAIN MAKES TRADESECRET THE CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL UPON THIS RELIGION FORUM!:



What did we expect, other than for Miss Tradesecret with her Bible ignorance, to remove one foot to insert the other as an inferior woman? ROFLOL!

Psst, notice that Miss Tradesecret has stayed out of this thread more so than not to save face, except for her child-like pre-school "quack, quack" posts in running away from posts to her. Knowing that if she re-entered, deep down, she knew that she would be easily Bible Slapped Silly®️ again, as you have done to her in the link in question above!  Good call Garth!


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@BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,

YOUR REVEALING LINK THAT ONCE AGAIN MAKES TRADESECRET THE CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL UPON THIS RELIGION FORUM!:

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/355646  What did we expect, other than for Miss Tradesecret with her Bible ignorance, to remove one foot to insert the other


👍
#530
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@Stephen
REALY! Not even your own god accepts deformity.
And you say the Brother is "warped"!?  You are simply denying reality. And on many, many levels, Tradesecret. And here is just one level that you have forgotten:


Leviticus 21:16-22

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God.

So, while your god rejects the "imperfect" you praise and thank him for them.
In the first instance, this was written to the nation of Israel within a context.  It was pre-Christian. Secondly, it's talking about persons who are defected coming near to offer food of his God. It also applied to priests qualifications as well. 

Christians would suggest that this is an OT directed towards Israel - with various goals. One to remind people that to offer priestly food for the people requires priests to be perfect - without sin. Secondly, to direct people's minds towards the perfection of the high priest who would come as an atonement for sin - one who had no sin. 

Christians would not see it as binding on them in the sense of the OT law - but would rather apply the key substance of the law - when you come to the table of the Lord, examine yourself before the Lord. And if you have a problem with someone fix it. Jesus says the same thing in the gospels. Secondly, we would apply it in relation to the prophecy of the messiah - that he who would come and offer the food of God - Jesus, would be without sin. 

Hence, Christians would not apply it in the same way that our old warped brother would - it has nothing to do with defects in children. 

This is why it is important to understand who a book was written too - what the rules are surrounding that - understanding whether it was pre Christ or post Christ. But you know that since   you are a scholar - not.  And honestly I don't care whether you agree or not. the Brother and you show yourselves wanting.  



And you say the Brother is "warped"!?

#531
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@Tradesecret

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MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, says the Bible contradicts itself, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!”


YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANCE QUOTES REGARDING THE BIBLE LAWS RELATIVE TO LEVITICUS 21:16-22: "Christians would suggest that this is an OT directed towards Israel ..... Christians would not see it as binding on them in the sense of the OT law"

Yes dear, the astute Christian would NOT suggest that this is an Old Testament directed to Israel only, understood Bible fool?  Here, let me easily "school you once again" on your outright Bible stupidity!

Jesus disagrees with you forthwith that you do not have to follow OT: "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" (Matthew 5:18).  First thing, I DARE YOU to bring up the perceived notion that Jesus fulfilled this passage where it is moot!  Secondly, ALL of the laws of the OT are to be followed, all 613 of them,  until heaven and earth do pass away, have they done so? NO!  GET IT? 


Furthermore, the following passages by the inspired word of Jesus stated that the Old Testament is to be followed, PERIOD!:

“Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Every word includes the Old Testament, understood?

Jesus stated: “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4). Every word of God/Jesus includes the Old Testament, get it Bible fool?

He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:28). Since the word of Jesus as God is written in the Old Testament, then this verse says we are to follow the OT!  Do you understand Bible dolt?

Jesus said: “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:28). The word of God /Jesus includes the Old Testament, do you understand this simple godly premise?! Huh? Maybe? DUH!


Listen up; "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that He should change His mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19). Jesus as God does NOT change His mind, therefore the aforementioned passages are to be followed to the letter, including the Old Testament writings! GET IT?


YOUR ADDITIONAL STEP IN THE POO QUOTE: “ …..understanding whether it was pre Christ or post Christ”

The JUDEO-Christian Bible is "ALL CHRIST" you dumbfounded Bible fool!!!  Jesus is God of the Old and New Testaments, understood? How many times do I have to correct your outright Bible stupidity in front of the membership?! ENOUGH ALREADY!


NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN LIKE “MISS TRADESECRET” THAT WANTS TO SHOW THEIR BIBLE STUPIDITY, WILL BE …? 

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#532
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REALY! Not even your own god accepts deformity.
And you say the Brother is "warped"!?  You are simply denying reality. And on many, many levels, Tradesecret. And here is just one level that you have forgotten:


Leviticus 21:16-22

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God.

So, while your god rejects the "imperfect" you praise and thank him for them.
In the first instance, this was written to the nation of Israel within a context.  It was pre-Christian. Secondly, it's talking about persons who are defected coming near to offer food of his God. It also applied to priests qualifications as well. 

Well, try as you may, but Jesus "was god from the first" if we are to accept the bible as fact. And the word of god states he will not have anyone with deformities anywhere near him.

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quack.
#534
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Whatever. That doesn't even deserve a quack. 
#535
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MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, says the Bible contradicts itself, and says that the Bible contradicts itself, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!”


Miss Tradesecret, you have literally ran away from the following posts, which is nothing new for you, that I have directed towards you and your Bible stupidity. 


We don't blame you in running from the above posts to you because you can't address them anyaway because you're to embarrassed that you didn't know what I biblically brought forth existed in the Bible in the first place, that easily buried your notions in your pathetic and laughable dumbfounded post #530: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/355746

Your only refutation that you have left to my posts above, that as shown continue to make you the #1 Bible fool of this Religion Forum, is to again act like a "snot-nosed little pre-school girl with an IQ of 40" in answering them with a feeble "Quack" as shown in your pathetic post below, LOL!:


Miss Tradesecret, again, your pre-school mental state does not allow you to comprehend that my superior Bible knowledge over your pre-school knowledge of same, will always easily refute what you thought you knew about the Bible, but you didn’t, until I school you again to correct you in front of the membership! LOL!!!


NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN LIKE "MISS TRADESECRET" THAT HASN’T LEFT A PRE-SCHOOL LEVEL OF ASSUMED BIBLICAL KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE OF HER OUTRIGHT BIBLE STUPIDITY, WILL BE ...?

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#536
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@Tradesecret


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Stephen,

Seriously, isn't it sad to watch "Miss Tradesecret" metaphorically die on this notable DEBATEART Religion Forum because of her assumed knowledge of the JUDEO-Christian Bible is absolutely NOTHING compared to our superior Bible knowledge in always having to correct her?  At what point does Miss Tradesecret just "throw in the towel" of total DEFEAT to save herself from further embarrassment relative to her not knowing the Bible like we do?  

Like I have said before, Miss Tradesecret not only is an embarrassment to this Religion Forum, but to Christianity as well!  Maybe she will take another "time out" and go into hiding again like she has done before when she is "road killed" by us because of her complete Bible stupidity.

Can you imagine in what Jesus as God thinks of Miss Tradesecret, especially regarding her lying about Jesus' inspired words within the scriptures: "There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." "Proverbs 6:16-19)

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#537
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As explicitly shown, Shila is no where to be found, possibly because she understood that I am taking over her "The case for the Historical Jesus" thread, where she had absolutely no business in opening up said thread to begin with as an inferior woman as shown in the following passage: 

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

Therefore, I will continue to show the REAL Jesus of Christianity, praise!


THE CASE FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS, AS THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, HIS INSPIRED WORDS ALLOWS WOMEN TO BE STONED TO DEATH!  :(

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found,  she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:20-21):

Can you imagine if Jesus was on earth today, and the stoning to death women that would be done in His behalf if they were not virgins upon marriage, as explicitly shown in this disgusting link: https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEGCAY7 

Yep, the REAL Jesus was a real hard ass when it always came to women. :(

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#538
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THE CASE FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS SAYS CHRISTIANS THAT TRULY BELIEVE IN HIM CAN WALK ON WATER!

If a Christian can't walk on water as shown in the link below,  then said Christian just doesn't believe enough in Jesus?   https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEGCBAY


Jesus proffers: “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father." John 14:12)

Barring the fact that at the end of this verse above, Jesus said He is going to the Father, which is Jesus to begin with, funny huh?  I love it when Jesus jokes around with us! :)  Now, to the crux of this passage, if a Christian can not walk on water in the summer time, then they simply don't believe in Jesus enough like He said in the verse above!  2+2=4. How embarrassing would that be for any Christian? :(

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#539
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@BrotherD.Thomas
I'm not running.  I am just responding to your non-questions and garbage with all it deserves. Quack,

when you ask a question requiring a real answer - then I answer.  When you get of your pogo stick - you might see this and reply intelligently, 

Of course I won't be holding my breath.  

Quack. 
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@Tradesecret


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MISS "QUACK, QUACK" TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, says the Bible contradicts itself, and says that the Bible contradicts itself, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!”


How sad, in you running out of EXCUSES to run from my godly posts to you in your post #539!  Whats new? NOTHING as usual! ROFLOL!

Here dear, WHY do you have to RUN AWAY from my following godly posts to you as listed below?  Have you had enough of me easily Bible Slapping you Silly®️ again, and you need time to heal?  Remember before, you didn't need lame girly EXCUSES like you are using now at your embarrassing expense in front of the membership! LOL!


Here dear Miss Tradesecret, try again forthwith:

COPY AND PASTE:
Miss Tradesecret, you have literally ran away from the following posts, which is nothing new for you, that I have directed towards you and your Bible stupidity. 


We don't blame you in running from the above posts to you because you can't address them anyaway because you're to embarrassed that you didn't know what I biblically brought forth existed in the Bible in the first place, that easily buried your notions in your pathetic and laughable dumbfounded post #530: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/355746

Your only refutation that you have left to my posts above, that as shown continue to make you the #1 Bible fool of this Religion Forum, is to again act like a "snot-nosed little pre-school girl with an IQ of 40" in answering them with a feeble "Quack" as shown in your pathetic post below, LOL!:


Now, as usual, take your little pre-school girl runaway excuse in using your "quack, quack" statement here, good girl!: _______________________________

RUN TRADESECRET, RUN, HURRY, KEEP RUNNING MISS "QUACK, QUACK" TRADESECRET!  https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEGCC0V


"Jesus, in prayer with you, why do you let me outright own Miss Tradesecret's Christianity and Bible stupidity? Therefore, when are you going to wake her up and tell her that she is embarrassing you and your Christian faith by using lame girly excuses to run from my godly posts to her showing her to be the Bible fool that she is, even though she won't even "TRY" ta answer them, but in a child like manner, she "quack, quacks" them away like a little pre-school girl!  LOL!"

NEXT?

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