Can anyone beat Barney?

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#1
Undefeatable
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I just realized Barney’s been here for like, forever but nobody’s ever beaten him. Though it seems he’s never faced a big name challenger in a show down. Who do you think could beat him (that’s active)?

My guesses: oromagi, whiteflame, blamonkey, mister Chris, I’m not sure what rational madman’s expertise is but he might be able to beat him in that (computer science or something?), intelligence and I might be able to give him a good fight.

Absolutely no idea how Trent would do considering Oromagi can beat him at his own weird history games.

Not sure if thett3 is active but they seem very strong, based on what I heard.
#2
ILikePie5
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Like the purple dinosaur? Ya, I can take him
#3
Intelligence_06
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@Undefeatable
  1. Barney does not debate much now. He mostly just rests here and hangs around like a wise old man.
  2. The question then becomes, Why, or How? You can't just make someone debate out of the whim and then knock him over. If he thinks it is gonna knock him over, it may be that he refuses.
Anyways, congrats for the 8000th topic creation around.

#4
Avery
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@Undefeatable
Barney never faced serious opposition on DDO or here. He has a fantastic w/l records because he never gets into debates with top-tier debaters. Both Dart and DDO had/have smart members who knew that noobsnipers inflated their records, hence a perfect 100/0 w/l ratio didn't impress. People like Raisor and Danielle whilst not having ultra high win ratios, were clearly better debaters who took on the hardest competition.

Whiteflame and Thett are genuine top-tier debaters who were top 10 on DDO -- they would beat Barney. I think Tejretics would also beat Barney (not sure if he's top 10 from DDO though, but he might be at his age now, if DDO were still alive).

Oromagi is a noobsniper but is certainly no pushover -- not sure who would win.

I don't know blamonkey, Trent or mister chris well, so I can't comment on them.

RationalMadman is certainly not a top tier debater. He's above average and that's it. My money is on Barney in that one.
#5
Lair77
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Barney never faced serious opposition on DDO or here. He has a fantastic w/l records because he never gets into debates with top-tier debaters.
This.   Debates are opt-in and there isn't much of a tournament scene.  In chess and other pvp games, high elo players are forced to face each other.  But here, all the high elo people can just noobsnipe and never face each other.

I'd also argue that top-tier debaters don't exist on this website because it isn't competitive.  There are probably a million in the world with experience in debating teams or moot courts in university that could handily beat most users on this site.  But those have better things to do with their time.  They're either focusing on their career or farming their GPA/other accolades.
#6
RationalMadman
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Barney did defeat top tier debaters on DDO, including oromagi, contrary to what Avery says.

He beat Novice_II here.

He is the type to think through every single way that the debate can go before typing a single word. He also has an uncanny ability to make lies sound fair and kustified, hence why he was able to ban me on pure lies and the website had his back and not mine, until later (people vote based on initial interpretation generally, translating to success in the arena).

Where this comes to be a problem for him is that he then cowers out of debates where he has not noticed a way to clamp down the chess-like path to a win he sees in the ones he engages in.
#7
Barney
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@ILikePie5
Like the purple dinosaur? Ya, I can take him
Somewhere in the multiverse, certainly. Within this reality, highly unlikely.

However, my offer for our debate with me resigning from the moderation team if I lose stands open.
#8
Barney
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@Undefeatable
There's some of my debates on which were I a voter, I would have voted against myself.

I'd personally rate myself in the lower end of the A tier, but well short of S tier.

Were I still an active debater, I'd almost certainly have been defeated by now. As is, I'm well out of practice, so I'd as likely as not lose to someone in the B tier with the right topic. Honestly, low voter turnout and a couple misogynistically biased votes probably would have taken me out in an abortion debate by now.
#9
RationalMadman
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@Barney
Really you are playing the misogyny card to justify why you fail to debate abortion?

#10
Barney
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@RationalMadman
I've debated abortion plenty.
#11
ILikePie5
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@Barney
Somewhere in the multiverse, certainly. Within this reality, highly unlikely.
You identify as a purple dinosaur?💀
#12
oromagi
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@ILikePie5
Like the purple dinosaur? Ya, I can take him

Hasn't Barney recently challenged you to a debate and you scampered?
#13
oromagi
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Barney beat me on DDO
#14
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@Barney
Instead of fronting with Ilikepie5, why not step up and actually debate me about the ban's reasoning, as you wrote it and have the resolution that is was based on a majority of lies and fallacious basis considering amnesty and context?

You can set the resolution.

I will fucking body you, I am sick of people saying I am mediocre, they have not seen me debate something I care about truly overall and against an opponent I really want to defeat on said topic.


I am very emotionally driven at my core. I need to burn to win and then I will bring all hell upon my opponent, not wasting a single character typed.


Make it 23k chars at least. I want to explore a lot of angles.
#15
ILikePie5
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@oromagi
Hasn't Barney recently challenged you to a debate and you scampered?
I said I could take on the purple dinosaur. 
#16
ILikePie5
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@RationalMadman
I sure hope you win that debate. I have no shame in admitting that Ragnar is a far better debater than me. He’s still an authoritarian scumbag through 

#17
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@ILikePie5
He is not far better than me at my peak on a topic I truly know I am correct and justified on and that makes me feel passion.

People see me at most at 50% tryhard, maybe 60%, on a huge majority of my debates and that is fine, this is more mental workout for me than a serious passion but when I want to, I can seriously debate. I just do not carry myself that way generally as I found I get on better in life by going quiet and picking battles wiser rather than arguing every time to full passion levels.
#18
Lair77
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Barney, I'll debate you.  Any topics in mind?
#19
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If Barney is interested in moderation debates, I would happily debate him over his own voting.
The resolution could be "THBT Barney has mis-represented a debater's arguments within the content of his voting decision." Barney seems to take liberty in avoiding other propositions including those which he has labeled "logical leaps," in the past, so I suspect this resolution could be pertinent. 
#20
Avery
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@Lair77
Barney never faced serious opposition on DDO or here. He has a fantastic w/l records because he never gets into debates with top-tier debaters.
This.   Debates are opt-in and there isn't much of a tournament scene.  In chess and other pvp games, high elo players are forced to face each other.  But here, all the high elo people can just noobsnipe and never face each other.

I'd also argue that top-tier debaters don't exist on this website because it isn't competitive.  There are probably a million in the world with experience in debating teams or moot courts in university that could handily beat most users on this site.  But those have better things to do with their time.  They're either focusing on their career or farming their GPA/other accolades.
I think the high elo people can just noobsnipe, but you've got personalities who won't. Whiteflame and Thett spring to mind. To his credit, RationalMadman will take on harder opponents (even if he rarely wins against them). There are probably others I don't know yet.

You're right in saying that Dart isn't competitive, at least in a top-tier sense. Top-tier debaters exist here but not because of the website. They've gained debate skills elsewhere.
#21
Avery
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It's quite funny to see people's reactions to this thread, particularly the people who are specifically talked about.

Not sure what Barney means by "lower end of A", but I checked his debates on here and they are worse than the ones on DDO. At a quick glance, he's only faced a couple guys with a positive win ratio. It's virtually all noobsniping. He's never been tested and I don't think he'd cut it in a top tier debate. I'd say he's like an 80th percentile debater.

RationalMadman has never backed up his big talk. He's lost the majority of his large debates and has proven time after time that he's simply not anywhere near the top. You look at his w/l ratio now and it's pretty bad. He's losing against mediocre debaters on the regular. I'd say he's like a 65th percentile debater.

Whiteflame's debates are clearly a cut above Barney's. He's always been mixing it with the best, and whilst he hasn't always won, he's been in the hunt. Just go and look at his most recent debates and most of them are against big names on the site. I'd say he's like a 95th percentile debater.

Thett is largely the same as Whiteflame. 95th percentile debater. Tejretics might be there, too.

I think the three who are guaranteed to beat Barney (in like a best of 10 debate format) are: Whiteflame, Thett and Tejretics. There might be others, too. 
#22
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 He's losing against mediocre debaters on the regular. I'd say he's like a 65th percentile debater.
Try the same topics on the same side, with as many going on at once as me.

We'll see what you handle.

You know who is all talk? Ms 'I used to be a legend on DDO and can't admit who I am here because I was a racist slavery supporter on my other accounts'.
#23
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Where are your debates, Avery? Where is your backing to your talk?

I give people a challenge who want a challenge in debating arena, all kinds.

You? You're a forum shitposter who clings to a past legacy.
#24
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I'm juggling 14 debates at once right now.

Try it. I'd like to see you break.

Then again, I could be Novice and make them all essentially against Mall on simple topics I rig in my favour. Instead, I gave Mall topics he could win if he tried properly, I allow everyone a chance to defeat me because I am a warrior and am ready to need to forfeit because i'm busy and tired, I'm ready to push my limits to the max here if need be and not in the sense of overinvesting in one debate that doesn't necessarily mean everything to me.

I don't need to give my maximum in every debate to enjoy the debating. You want me at my max? Bring it out. Make a topic I feel strongly about and I'll dethrone you like I did Misterchris rn if the votes stay in my favour on his debate with me.
#25
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Also, out of my 38 tied debates, around 35ish are solid wins that my haters avoided voting and that's the truth.

3 maybe could have gone the other way and just didn't get votes.

For instance, the one vs theweakeredge is an exception, not the rule.
#26
Lair77
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Tbh, I might even rate Madman over Barney.  Barney only has like 7 actual debates.  The other 30 are trolls, forfeits, grammar arguments or terrible opponents.

I'd rather lose to good opponents than rarely face them.
#27
Vader
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@ILikePie5
He's an easy fight tbh. Kinda like the Cowboys
#28
Mharman
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@ILikePie5
Like the purple dinosaur? Ya, I can take him
Pie caught in 4K

down horrendous man
#29
ILikePie5
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@Vader
He's an easy fight tbh. Kinda like the Cowboys
Cooper Rush is our lord and savior 😤
#30
ILikePie5
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@Mharman
Pie caught in 4K

down horrendous man
I’ve been practicing my I love you song