How do the meek inherit the earth?

Author: Greyparrot

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#31
keithprosser
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@Stephen
See, it is there again. You do know he couldn't have possibly delivered this sermon because you tell us often, that you don't believe he existed, it all fairy tales and they are all characters in a story -  or words to that effect.
"Did Jesus exist?" seems a simple enough question but it's complicated by what is meant by 'exist' in this context.  As an atheist I do not accept Jesus as an actual divinity walking on the face of the earth, but I don't discount the possibility that Jesus was an 'ordinary human' around which legends developed.    If that is the case (as it may well be the case with, say, Robin Hood) should we say 'Jesus existed'?

The entitity that walked on water and raised the dead never existed; the entity that gave the sermon on the mount very possibly did exist. Neither 'Jesus existed' nor 'Jesus did not exist' is the full and proper answer.  That isn't fence sitting - it's a problem with the ambiguity of 'exists'.


#32
Stephen
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"Did Jesus Exist?" seems a simple enough question but it's complicated by what is meant by 'exist' in this context. 
 Oh Stop it! You don’t believe he exists but it doesn’t stop you telling us what he meant
 
 As an atheist I do not accept Jesus as an actual divinity walking on the face of the earth,
 
There it is again. Talking About someone who you deny existed as if he existed.
 
but I don't discount the possibility that Jesus was an 'ordinary human' around which legends developed.
This all seems like backpedaling Keith. You have come to realise that you indeed do have to accept this man as existing - although reluctantly - if you want to make claims as to what he meant, such as you did here:  




Added: 11.23.18 07:41AM  "jesus is describing conditions in a new world to come; they are promises".
 



The entitity that walked on water and raised the dead never existed; the entity that gave the sermon on the mount very possibly did exist.

Well that is at least going some way to agreeing with me. I have said all along throughout this forum that I believe Jesus existed, that he was rightful king of the Jews  and High Priest.  I too have denied his "miracles" and I have gone some way to proving what is meant by “miracles"  i.e. "raising the dead", "water into wine" and "curing lepers"  etc etc. strange that you only mention this new belief now your backs against the wall and have never came out and agreed with me before: there is a name for that practice too. 
 
 
 Neither 'Jesus existed' nor 'Jesus didn't exist' is the full and proper answer. 
No that is sitting on the fence.
 
 That isn't fence sitting - it's a problem with the ambiguity of 'exists'.
 
It is sitting on the fence. You want it both ways. But you cannot have it both ways. You painted yourself into a corner simply by dismissing the scriptures outright. 

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#33
Greyparrot
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I totally get the whole carrot-on-the-stick platitude thing. It's what every leader promises....


But if you are going to offer something nice...why offer soil? 

This reminds me of Charlie Brown.


"I got a rock"

Whatever...meek and weak people still end up inheriting mass graves while the strong fertilize their civilizations on their bones. It's a matter of history.
#34
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@Greyparrot
I totally get the whole carrot-on-the-stick platitude thing. It's what every leader promises....


Exactly, Greyparrot. And Jesus was a master politician among other things. It is hard to find one single straight answer from Jesus. He either replies with a question of his own or responds in coded parables for  "those with ears".
#35
keithprosser
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@Stephen
'It is sitting on the fence. You want it both ways. But you cannot have it both ways. You painted yourself into a corner simply by dismissing the scriptures outright. 
I don't want it both ways... it is both ways.   If by 'jesus' you mean a supernatural being then "Jesus did not exist".  If by 'Jesus' you mean a flesh-and-blood preacher about whom various legends were woven then "Jesus (probably) did exist".
 

#36
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@keithprosser
I don't want it both ways... it is both ways. 

 You do. And now you are backpedaling because you have played yourself into a corner.


  If by 'jesus' you mean a supernatural being then "Jesus did not exist".

I have made my position clear many many times on this site where I stand on the issue of Jesus FROM DAY ONE. 

So  to be clear you are  now saying Jesus did exist but wasn't a "miracle worker" as I have been saying from day one on this site but never once did you supported me when I have been under attack from the fawning sycophantic christians here simply for expressing  my opinions and views  on these unreliable scriptures. indeed, you have proven to be contrary simply  for the sake of being contrary.


  If by 'Jesus' you mean a flesh-and-blood preacher ..........about whom various legends were woven then

You know what I mean.  So stop trying to  filibuster your way out of the corner you have painted yourself into. 

"Jesus (probably) did exist".

"(probably)"? Back on the fence or an agreement that Jesus existed?
#37
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@Stephen
We only agree only if you believe that Jesus - if he existed at all -  was 100% human with no supernatural powers nor any special relationship with God (who does exist).  

#38
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@keithprosser
We only agree only if you believe that Jesus....... was 100% human with no supernatural powers

How many times!? This is exactly what I believe of The Christ Jesus. Rightful - very human - King of the Jews. Rightful - very human - High Priest. He could no more turn water into wine, raise the dead or walk on water, than you or I. 

nor any special relationship with God
His relationship with his god has no bearing on whether he is human. My sister is human but she believes in her god. But for some miraculous reason she has never been able explain away the ambiguous, anomalous, contradictory half stories that the scriptures are undoubtedly riddled with.. It is again the scriptures that sometimes appear to elevate The Christ to god/son of god status with ridiculous passages such as :


When the centurion and those with him, who were keeping watch over Jesus saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they were terrified and said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!" Matthew 27.

OOh well, that's it then.  If this ROMAN centurion - who had never seen or heard about Jesus THE JEW  in ALL of his life before watching him crucified and had perfectly good ROMAN gods of his own says  " he is S of G" .. then it must be true, I mean, what more evidence could one possible ask for or need?



I have said many times that Jesus would have been absolutely appalled that a new religious ideology had sprang up in his name. this would have been nothing short of blasphemy in his time.
#39
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@keithprosser
@Stephen
Both are wrong, sorry to tell it.

Read the story start to finish, OT to Qur'an's last page. Do it, skim read and read shortened versions if need be.

Observe the following plot-hole in the mainstream interpretation (when I say mainstream, I have yet to meet a single human who has fully understood it how I do so it's like 99+%):

  1. There is direct symbolism in John's prophecy of Christ involving fire and that he is coming down much like a phoenix being reborn... in Fire.
  2. Rewind and see that the one who Lucifer turns into is... NOT SATAN... It is JESUS. The fiery beastly, rebellious ex-angel with a vendetta against God of OT. 
  3. Watch what happens... Who is the Holy Ghost. I will tell you, it is Allah. It is Lucifer himself when he's passed through the flesh-host (Jesus was not Lucifer in terms of brain chemistry, Lucifer was a beast possessing Jesus and the guy Jesus had no idea what the heck to do about the thoughts and urges he gave him, leading to him wanting to kill himself willingly to rid himself of the agony of possessing it).
  4. This means that the Antichrist (which opposes Jesus in the flesh) is actually the Holy Ghost which is the soul that was possessing Jesus the whole time; Lucifer. 
  5. Lucifer, being the actual 'devil' (the character 'devil' in NT and Qur'an is God of OT, the word Devil isn't used in OT nor is the concept remotely explored) operates precisely how Allah and Jesus lay out the 'devil' will. He mimics this "Satan" character (who isn't the actual 'devil' but is the devil as far as character-assignment is concerned in NT and Qur'an) and deceives the masses, confusing them making them feel righteous only by them opposing his own other religion among other things. 
  6. In the real world it has happened exactly like this: Christianity and Islam preying on one another as Apex-Predator-Religions and Jews being hunted by both but, since Jesus is the more forgiving one and more likely to see Satan as an equal than a filthy scum to simply be obliterated, it was the Christians who (after brutally slaughtering and abusing many Jews) led to the defence of an offensive (yes, welcome to Christianity) creation of Israel (all the nations backing it were Christian and proud at the time, barely secular if that had happened just yet).
  7. Observe how Hamas and others things operate; making Israel look like the bad guy. I love this image to illustrate how they force Israel to have such a high kill-count of children and pregnant women: https://i.imgur.com/MPz7Z.jpg
  8. Who is the most Luciferian religion of the three? The moon to the star... Islam. Think of the symbolism. Think... Cross... Think... Cross... Sword... Symbol of Islamic nations are swords... Sword is antichrist symbol when wielded (upside down cross). 
  9. Which of the three 'God' characters operates most fair and ruthless as the real God inevitably does in our reality? OT. Why is this the realest of the three Gods? Look how nature works, God made nature not our social constructs.

#40
keithprosser
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@Greyparrot
Whatever...meek and weak people still end up inheriting mass graves while the strong fertilize their civilizations on their bones. It's a matter of history.
The reason for the beatitudes is because that principle of history was about to be over-turned.  Matthew was not writing banal platitides -  he was making promises of radical change, quite the opposite of 'platitudes'.

But the promised change didn't happen and jesus was executed.   The remakable thing is that was not the end of Christianity.



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#41
Greyparrot
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@keithprosser
It's still a silly carrot to promise. At least Muhammed got it right by offering 72 virgins instead of a rock.

Thanks for the rock Jesus.


#42
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@keithprosser
The remakable thing is that was not the end of Christianity.

It wasn't the beginning either, Jesus was a Jew not a Christian.
#43
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@Stephen
So do we agree that what we call 'Christianity' today differs from judaism more than Jesus' original message did?
#44
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@keithprosser
 jesus is describing conditions in a new world to come; they are promises.

And bad unfulfillable and unfulfilled promises, at that.  And none of these are truly ethical because they are all conditions for a future reward.

The beatitudes are not platitudes

I don't agree, What we have here, again,  is Matthew ( who else)? portraying Jesus as a sanctimonious hypocrite and purveyor of empty rhetoric - not so much Beatitudes as platitudes .

A platitude is a trite, meaningless, or prosaic statement, often used as a thought-terminating cliché, aimed at quelling social, emotional, or cognitive unease.[1]
Platitudes have been criticized as giving a false impression of wisdom, making it easy to accept falsehoods:



#45
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So do we agree that what we call 'Christianity' today differs from judaism more than Jesus' original message did?

What actually was Jesus' message to the Jews, his people?

Jesus would say one thing in earshot of the Romans while saying completely the opposite in private to his followers. He was believed by some to be the promised Messiah. So what you have to ask yourself what was expected of a Messiah. 

It was JEWS that had expected a Messiah, not Christians.
#46
Mopac
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Saint John Climacus:

Meekness is an unchangeable state of mind which remains the same in honor and dishonor. Meekness is the rock overlooking the sea of irritability which breaks all the waves that dash against it, remaining itself unmoved. Meekness is the buttress of patience, the mother of love and the foundation of wisdom, for it is said, “The Lord will teach the meek His way” (Ps 24.9). It prepares the forgiveness of sins; it is boldness in prayer, an abode of the Holy Spirit. “But to whom shall I look,” says the Lord, “to him who is meek and quiet and trembles at my word” (Is 66.2). In meek hearts the Lord finds rest, but a turbulent soul is the seat of the devil

#47
disgusted
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@Mopac
Meekness is an unchangeable state of mind
When he starts with an absolutely dishonest and unaware claim he has nothing to say.

#48
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@Greyparrot
The earth is a pretty hostile place for most life.

It is, but then again it is the very outskirts of creation, it is one of the lower worlds in relation to other experiences. I call it the wild wild west of creation, this is basically a giant playground and one where the soul can exist at very low levels of consciousness. In other words the swing of duality is at its finest here. One thing to keep in mind is that this is not all there is, this is considered a hell realm only there is still much beauty and freedom. The law of Karma also sets the stage for much of what you see take place on this planet. 

I'd rather inherit a hot tub and a house.

But while you are inhabiting the earth, you get to acquire those things if you work towards them, that is the trade off....but again remember, you will see here the full swing of the positive and negative forces even in the midst of you just living your life. If you put your interest within the positive nature of life you will get that in return now or later, but spirituality will help show what is a priority, because it understands the nature of what and who you are. Always pursue that, who and what are you and what truly matters in life?

#49
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@ET

It is, but then again it is the very outskirts of creation, it is one of the lower worlds in relation to other experiences. I call it the wild wild west of creation, this is basically a giant playground and one where the soul can exist at very low levels of consciousness. In other words the swing of duality is at its finest here. One thing to keep in mind is that this is not all there is, this is considered a hell realm only there is still much beauty and freedom. The law of Karma also sets the stage for much of what you see take place on this planet. 


And now you will supply EVIDENCE that supports this drivel.
#50
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@Greyparrot
When the rest of the world kills itself off, only the most remote and isolated tribes of humans who are currently living with stone age technology will survive.
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#51
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@3RU7AL
Unlikely. Technology ensures there will be morlocks and eloi.
#52
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@Greyparrot
You're making a pretty big assumption that any sort of modern "technology" will survive and still be functional.
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#53
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@3RU7AL
Erasing technology and fossils are actually far more difficult than erasing life.