Overweight is the new norm?

Author: Lair77

Posts

Total: 55
Topic's author
#1
Lair77
Lair77's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 97
0
1
4
Lair77's avatar
Lair77
0
1
4
In the developed world, people's perceptions have changed.  Most people are 30-40 lbs overweight.  So if you put someone who is 30-40 lbs overweight that crowd, people wouldn't consider them overweight.  They'd consider that average.

The goalpost has moved.  A person with a 23-24 BMI, for example, would've been considered average a few decades ago, but now many people consider that "skinny".  And someone who is 21 BMI, while still in a healthy weight range, would be called anorexic.  People are generally not seen as overweight unless they're morbidly obese.

The % of Americans who consider themselves overweight is the same now as 20 years ago.  Yet the % of Americans who are overweight or obese has gone up significantly.   This means people consider their weight relative to the population rather than in absolute.  Only 25% of Americans have a normal BMI.  3 in 4 Americans are overweight.

Some will argue that BMI overestimates how fat people are because it doesn't take muscle into account.  This is true for a small portion of the population that actively bodybuild.  But for most people, it may overestimate it.  If you're a 180 lb athlete at age 25, but you become sedentary.  When you're 35 or 45, you may still be the same 180 lbs, but with a higher bodyfat percentage. 

#2
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
(I've said this before so it isn't really doxxing info especially as I've shifted)

I grew up skinny, unable to gain weight due to unknown food intolerances (well I guess I knew one of them kind of but that didn't help) and simply lack of appetite at times (high metabolism and constant stress factored in).

It has always perplexed me how overweight people can't just cut down what they eat because I actually had to learn to force myself to 'cave in' to slight hunger (since I don't feel it severely unless I'm basically starving which I have not allowed myself to do often anymore). I never have understood it and doubt I will to my dying day unless I go through hormonal and genetic changes that let me experience their side of life.

I believe the primary issue is once someone associates food with comfort (I had the opposite issue, it was literally a milder version of what is known as anorexia nervosa, I feel no appetite when very stressed other than for extremely tasty food).

I think that people with genes like mine could actually be useful to scientists to come up with a very controversial solution (injecting DNA-altering things into the womb to make the baby prone to have a normal appetite) since the research into the fat and very hungry end of the spectrum has been done nearly 100%.

People like myself don't get researched in that way because we get overlooked.
Topic's author
#3
Lair77
Lair77's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 97
0
1
4
Lair77's avatar
Lair77
0
1
4
The main issue is that people just don't track calories.  Or if they don't do it consistently enough.  You need to count everything: including beverages, sauces, butter/oil, dressing, that spoonful of peanut butter you eat out of the fridge as a snack.

You used to just be able to eat food without counting it back in the 50's and 60's because portion sizes were smaller and there weren't as many calorically-dense food options.  But now you have to be more vigilant than ever on what you eat.
Topic's author
#4
Lair77
Lair77's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 97
0
1
4
Lair77's avatar
Lair77
0
1
4
I can see why people are overweight though.  Food can be addictive.  And unresolved mental health issues can cause a portion of people to overeat or neglect other aspects of their health in general.

Also, from an evolutionary standpoint, back when food was scarce, eating more calories than needed was incentivized, because you didn't know when your next meal would happen.  You'd need to gain fat, just in case you go hungry the next few days.   But now craving lots of calories has become a downside.
#5
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,853
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
People are overweight in modern societies because they overeat and are less active.
Change in diets are also factors contributing to overweight.
#6
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
The great thing about being fat is the people that will judge you for being fat don't want to be friends with you so you have a better class of friends.
#7
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,853
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
People are overweight in modern societies because they overeat and are less active.
Change in diets are also factors contributing to overweight.

Polytheist-Witch: The great thing about being fat is the people that will judge you for being fat don't want to be friends with you so you have a better class of friends.
But fewer friends who can fit in a classroom.

Topic's author
#8
Lair77
Lair77's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 97
0
1
4
Lair77's avatar
Lair77
0
1
4
im not trying to judge or condemn anyone.  But we should be honest.  

No man should be 200+ lbs, unless maybe theyre a 6’4” and/or bodybuilder.

Obesity causes diabetes and many other illnesses.  It will raise the cost of health care, both privately and publicly.  Not to mention quality of life.



#9
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
No one would normalise anorexia, yet we celebrate people being overweight. 
#10
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Bones
No we don’t. Since when do we celebrate being overweight?
#11
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@Intelligence_06
"Acceptance" implicates celebration, especially if mere acceptance entails plastering magazines and adds with plus size "models". 
#12
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Bones
Well, I believe most plus-size models at least still work out. No one praises being an absolute junk hunk, but what we praise I think is that we should be able to exercise regardless of weight.

#13
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@Intelligence_06
Well, I believe most plus-size models at least still work out.
Even if this is the case, which I doubt, I don't think their work is deserving of this level of praise. I work out, but the effort I exert is not worth any praise. They are still holistically probably unhealthy 

No one praises being an absolute junk hunk, but what we praise I think is that we should be able to exercise regardless of weight.
Everyone should be able to exercise but not everyone should be on magazine covers - those should be reserved for the people who have worked the hardest and look the best. 

Topic's author
#14
Lair77
Lair77's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 97
0
1
4
Lair77's avatar
Lair77
0
1
4
Aesthetics and health are 2 different things.  Even though fitness is a priority for my life personally, I still like girls with some extra ass.
#15
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,171
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lair77
The main issue is that laziness has (temporarily) become established in affluent westernised societies.

Easy (unhealthy) food for no effort. 
#16
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,171
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
@Poly

Do unnecessarily big people tend to have unnecessarily big friends?

Fit healthy trim people do seem to seek out fit healthy trim friends. 

So, in this respect it would seem that "class" is only relative to shape and health, rather than intellect.

As it would also seem that there is no clear relationship between intellect and body shape. 
#17
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Intelligence_06
That's the same argument that he's with gay people and black people and trans people. If you're not actively hating them you're celebrating them. It's called just minding your own fucking business.
#18
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
There's another good reason to be a fat ass if you're fat, you're stupid and if you're stupid people know your theist and then they don't even have to ask. 
#19
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,853
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
Polytheist-Witch: There's another good reason to be a fat ass if you're fat, you're stupid and if you're stupid people know your theist and then they don't even have to ask
No one should be white either. And if you're white people know your racist and then they don't even have to ask.
#20
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Shila
Yeap 
#21
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,647
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2

@the witch

 If you're not actively hating 

You are the only single person on this whole forum that spends her demented time hating everyone.

I honestly believe you that are ill , Witch. Are there no wings of bat or toes of newt healing potions that you can take?
#22
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,853
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Stephen

@the witch

 If you're not actively hating 

You are the only single person on this whole forum that spends her demented time hating everyone.

I honestly believe you that are ill , Witch. Are there no wings of bat or toes of newt healing potions that you can take?
They are all aphrodisiacs and that is why she is running around like a demented witch in heat. 
#23
Public-Choice
Public-Choice's avatar
Debates: 19
Posts: 1,065
3
4
8
Public-Choice's avatar
Public-Choice
3
4
8
-->
@Lair77
Obesity causes diabetes and many other illnesses.  It will raise the cost of health care, both privately and publicly.  Not to mention quality of life.
Correlation =/= causation.

There are few illnesses that obesity causes. The rest are not necessarily caused by obesity, but tend to be with obese people due to there being similarities in diet, living conditions, etc.

Quality of life is subjective. Some people are completely content watching TV all day. You can be 600 pounds and your quality of life not affected at all if all you do is watch TV.

Also, one other thing to consider is the BMI is being grossly misapplied by the medical complex. It was invented to gauge population obesity, not individual health. But, it particularly is for white people. Nobody realizes this. [1]

Africans, for instance, have a higher bone density than most white ethnicities. [2] Moreover, Asians tend to have a higher body fat percentage than white people of the same BMI measurement. [3] The BMI was based on European ethnicity, so it gets these other ethnic groups completely wrong.

The only way to properly gauge a person's proper weight is based on body fat percentage as derived from objective measures, such as DEXA scans and CT or MRI scans. [4] 

Or, for those who don't have the money for these things, looking in the mirror and seeing if they have two chins or a sizeable pot belly or cottage cheese where skin used to be.

SOURCES:
#24
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,853
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Public-Choice
Correlation =/= causation.

There are few illnesses that obesity causes. The rest are not necessarily caused by obesity, but tend to be with obese people due to there being similarities in diet, living conditions, etc.

Quality of life is subjective. Some people are completely content watching TV all day. You can be 600 pounds and your quality of life not affected at all if all you do is watch TV.

Also, one other thing to consider is the BMI is being grossly misapplied by the medical complex. It was invented to gauge population obesity, not individual health. But, it particularly is for white people. Nobody realizes this. [1]

Africans, for instance, have a higher bone density than most white ethnicities. [2] Moreover, Asians tend to have a higher body fat percentage than white people of the same BMI measurement. [3] The BMI was based on European ethnicity, so it gets these other ethnic groups completely wrong.

The only way to properly gauge a person's proper weight is based on body fat percentage as derived from objective measures, such as DEXA scans and CT or MRI scans. [4] 

Or, for those who don't have the money for these things, looking in the mirror and seeing if they have two chins or a sizeable pot belly or cottage cheese where skin used to be.
Rising Obesity in the United States Is a Public Health Crisis

Buried in recent headlines is the sobering fact that obesity is still on the rise in the United States. The latest federal data show that nearly 40 percent of American adults were obese in 2015–16, up from 34 percent in 2007–08. The prevalence of severe obesity also went up during the same period, from 5.7 percent to 7.7 percent.1 In 1985, no state had an obesity rate higher than 15 percent. In 2016, five states had rates over 35 percent.
#25
Avery
Avery's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 323
1
2
5
Avery's avatar
Avery
1
2
5
-->
@Public-Choice
Obesity causes diabetes and many other illnesses.  It will raise the cost of health care, both privately and publicly.  Not to mention quality of life.
Correlation =/= causation.

There are few illnesses that obesity causes. The rest are not necessarily caused by obesity, but tend to be with obese people due to there being similarities in diet, living conditions, etc.

Quality of life is subjective. Some people are completely content watching TV all day. You can be 600 pounds and your quality of life not affected at all if all you do is watch TV.

Also, one other thing to consider is the BMI is being grossly misapplied by the medical complex. It was invented to gauge population obesity, not individual health. But, it particularly is for white people. Nobody realizes this. [1]

Africans, for instance, have a higher bone density than most white ethnicities. [2] Moreover, Asians tend to have a higher body fat percentage than white people of the same BMI measurement. [3] The BMI was based on European ethnicity, so it gets these other ethnic groups completely wrong.

The only way to properly gauge a person's proper weight is based on body fat percentage as derived from objective measures, such as DEXA scans and CT or MRI scans. [4] 

Or, for those who don't have the money for these things, looking in the mirror and seeing if they have two chins or a sizeable pot belly or cottage cheese where skin used to be.

SOURCES:
This is a pretty great post, but I don't agree on two things:

(1) Quality of life isn't that subjective and is arguably pretty objective. Sure, people enjoy different things. However, people are going to be miserable being 600 lbs and watching tv all day. Being that helpless and immobile is soul-destroying. Your health is also going to decline substantially, along with your mood as a result.

There's research on others who get one/multiple limbs destroyed (usually due to a motor accident), and whilst they recover after the initial shock, they never reach the general public's average life happiness again.

(2) BMI doesn't get any ethnic group but White's "completely wrong". They might be off more than the Whites, but they're within the ballpark
#26
Avery
Avery's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 323
1
2
5
Avery's avatar
Avery
1
2
5
-->
@Lair77
In the developed world, people's perceptions have changed.  Most people are 30-40 lbs overweight.  So if you put someone who is 30-40 lbs overweight that crowd, people wouldn't consider them overweight.  They'd consider that average.

The goalpost has moved.  A person with a 23-24 BMI, for example, would've been considered average a few decades ago, but now many people consider that "skinny".  And someone who is 21 BMI, while still in a healthy weight range, would be called anorexic.  People are generally not seen as overweight unless they're morbidly obese.

The % of Americans who consider themselves overweight is the same now as 20 years ago.  Yet the % of Americans who are overweight or obese has gone up significantly.   This means people consider their weight relative to the population rather than in absolute.  Only 25% of Americans have a normal BMI.  3 in 4 Americans are overweight.

Some will argue that BMI overestimates how fat people are because it doesn't take muscle into account.  This is true for a small portion of the population that actively bodybuild.  But for most people, it may overestimate it.  If you're a 180 lb athlete at age 25, but you become sedentary.  When you're 35 or 45, you may still be the same 180 lbs, but with a higher bodyfat percentage. 
I like this OP :)

There's no good excuse for being overweight. You're simply mentally fragile and weak if you think otherwise.

#27
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,853
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Avery
This is a pretty great post, but I don't agree on two things:

(1) Quality of life isn't that subjective and is arguably pretty objective. Sure, people enjoy different things. However, people are going to be miserable being 600 lbs and watching tv all day. Being that helpless and immobile is soul-destroying. Your health is also going to decline substantially, along with your mood as a result.

There's research on others who get one/multiple limbs destroyed (usually due to a motor accident), and whilst they recover after the initial shock, they never reach the general public's average life happiness again.
The reason they got to 600 lbs was because they were very happy eating and did not enjoy doing anything else.
The thought of not being  able to eat that much to lose weight is what puts an end to their happiness.

(2) BMI doesn't get any ethnic group but White's "completely wrong". They might be off more than the Whites, but they're within the ballpark
But more than that, science has repeatedly demonstrated that a measure built by and for white people is even less accurate for people of color — and may even lead to misdiagnosis and mistreatment. According to studies published by the Endocrine Society, the BMI overestimates fatness and health risks for Black people. Meanwhile, according to the World Health Organization, the BMI underestimates health risks for Asian communities, which may contribute to underdiagnosis of certain conditions. And, despite the purported universality of the BMI, it papers over significant sex-based differences in the relationship between body fat and the BMI. That is, because so much of the research behind the BMI was conducted on those assigned male at birth, those assigned female may be at greater health risk if their diagnosis hinges on a measurement that was never designed for them.
#28
Public-Choice
Public-Choice's avatar
Debates: 19
Posts: 1,065
3
4
8
Public-Choice's avatar
Public-Choice
3
4
8
-->
@Avery
However, people are going to be miserable being 600 lbs and watching tv all day. Being that helpless and immobile is soul-destroying.
There are people out there who love being waited on hand and foot. To them being immobile isn't soul crushing but the best luxury in life.

There are also people for whom it WOULD be soul crushing for. I am not saying everyone should be 600 pounds. I am just saying that something like "quality" varies from person to person. So their quality of life can change significantly.

For some, a wife, kids, and picket fenced house is the dream come true. For others, it is being a billionaire with a private jet. Comparative to each other, the quality of life is drastically different. However, they are both a good quality of life.

Some people love food. So eating a lot of it is their ideal quality of life. While others enjoy having an impracticably "swol" body. Others enjoy running marathons and doing Iron Man challenges.

All of these have extreme negatives to them. Bodybuilders can't really use their muscles for anything because they might make a strain by accident. They also need to eat 3,500+ calories a day and maintain 3% body fat, meaning they basically live off of protein shakes and steaks and maybe chicken. Goodbye pizza, carbs, burgers, desserts, and even vegetables to a degree. Most people would call that a horrible quality of life. Body builders are also prone to knee and back injuries.

Marathon runners can have knee and other physiological problems later in life due to the shear volume of running. They might need knee replacements, meniscus operations, and more. These are problems that will affect them the rest of their lives.

And the guy who is 600 pounds can't be mobile. Which h most people would hate. 

But we aren't going to say they all have terrible quality of life. It is subjective to what each person wants. To those people, they might be able to live with the consequences for their lifestyles. 

This is why it is subjective. 

BMI doesn't get any ethnic group but White's "completely wrong".
Not true:

#29
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,853
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Avery
--> @Avery
However, people are going to be miserable being 600 lbs and watching tv all day. Being that helpless and immobile is soul-destroying.
There are people out there who love being waited on hand and foot. To them being immobile isn't soul crushing but the best luxury in life.

There are also people for whom it WOULD be soul crushing for. I am not saying everyone should be 600 pounds. I am just saying that something like "quality" varies from person to person. So their quality of life can change significantly.

For some, a wife, kids, and picket fenced house is the dream come true. For others, it is being a billionaire with a private jet. Comparative to each other, the quality of life is drastically different. However, they are both a good quality of life.

Some people love food. So eating a lot of it is their ideal quality of life. While others enjoy having an impracticably "swol" body. Others enjoy running marathons and doing Iron Man challenges.

All of these have extreme negatives to them. Bodybuilders can't really use their muscles for anything because they might make a strain by accident. They also need to eat 3,500+ calories a day and maintain 3% body fat, meaning they basically live off of protein shakes and steaks and maybe chicken. Goodbye pizza, carbs, burgers, desserts, and even vegetables to a degree. Most people would call that a horrible quality of life. Body builders are also prone to knee and back injuries.

Marathon runners can have knee and other physiological problems later in life due to the shear volume of running. They might need knee replacements, meniscus operations, and more. These are problems that will affect them the rest of their lives.

And the guy who is 600 pounds can't be mobile. Which h most people would hate. 

But we aren't going to say they all have terrible quality of life. It is subjective to what each person wants. To those people, they might be able to live with the consequences for their lifestyles. 

This is why it is subjective. 
The reason they got to 600 lbs was because they were very happy eating and did not enjoy doing anything else.
The thought of not being  able to eat that much to lose weight is what puts an end to their happiness.

(2) BMI doesn't get any ethnic group but White's "completely wrong". They might be off more than the Whites, but they're within the ballpark
But more than that, science has repeatedly demonstrated that a measure built by and for white people is even less accurate for people of color — and may even lead to misdiagnosis and mistreatment. According to studies published by the Endocrine Society, the BMI overestimates fatness and health risks for Black people. Meanwhile, according to the World Health Organization, the BMI underestimates health risks for Asian communities, which may contribute to underdiagnosis of certain conditions. And, despite the purported universality of the BMI, it papers over significant sex-based differences in the relationship between body fat and the BMI. That is, because so much of the research behind the BMI was conducted on those assigned male at birth, those assigned female may be at greater health risk if their diagnosis hinges on a measurement that was never designed for them.

#30
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,171
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
600lbs is a tad on the big side, doesn't matter what colour you are.

For sure, certain afro-ethnic sub-groups do have a genetic predisposition for big arses.

But to be fair, so do a lot of Caucasians. (Gender neutral)


Pop into town and sit on a bench with a coffee and a bun and watch people go by.

And you will see that they come in a staggering array of genetically modified shapes and sizes.

Knock knees and bowlegs are prime examples of evolutionary diversity.


But just one bun and make sure you walk.


So for sure, some people a naturally big.

And then some just don't realise that dinners over.


BMI. Body Mass Index

BMF. Big Mother Fucker