Childish God

Author: Sidewalker

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#1
Sidewalker
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I think it’s common for young children to see the Bible as a story book and to have a childish understanding of God as an invisible man in the sky that grants wishes to those who pray.  Of course, as children age and mature their conception of God and their understanding of faith develops and matures beyond such childish ways of understanding things.

But apparently, that isn’t always the case. There seems to be a group of very vocal Atheists whose conception of God and faith did not mature as they got older and who spend a lot of time ranting about how much more intelligent, rational, and mature they are than people of faith because they now reject this childish idea of God. They apparently don’t understand that no adult Theist believes in the God they don’t believe in and yet, they really seem thrilled with themselves for their intellectual achievement  It just seems that they are using the faith discussion to brag about how they are all grown up now and so they don’t believe in the invisible man in the sky anymore, and when I read those posts I can’t help but recall the image of a little child I saw on vacation a few years back who was clinging to the wall of the hotel pool kicking his legs and yelling “Mommy, mommy, look at me, I’m swimming in the deep end just like a grown up”.

I’m sorry, but this type of Atheism just doesn’t appear to be all that grown up to me, and clinging to such childish ideas about God and faith isn’t what I’d call “deep”.

What do you think, does this explain a lot of the behavior we see on these boards?
#2
Ehyeh
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Atheists are very frustrated that some people could possibly disagree with them. It terrifies them that some people are capable of being fine with uncertainty.
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#3
Sidewalker
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@Ehyeh
Atheists are very frustrated that some people could possibly disagree with them. It terrifies them that some people are capable of being fine with uncertainty.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a grade schooler that doesn't know that belief in God is a matter of faith, how is it possible that so many Atheists can't grasp that concept?  Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?

This mantra that if you have "faith" then you have a "burden of proof" so I win, is beyond childish.   
#4
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@Ehyeh
@Sidewalker
So, two theists have a dig and a jibe at people they don't know.

GOD they must be so terrified and frustrated.


HaHa.

Conditioning is what it is and outcomes are what they are.

And everyone is essentially the same.



As ever.

GOD principle sound.

Floaty about blokes not so.



#5
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@Sidewalker
I think you would be hard pressed to find a grade schooler that doesn't know that belief in God is a matter of faith,

Of course, it's a matter of faith and as you say; most 21st century grade school students understands this. 



how is it possible that so many Atheists can't grasp that concept?

Atheist probably understand this more so than the theists. 



Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?
To my knowledge, it is the atheist that studies these ancient scriptures more deeply than the theist. The theist for the most part is happy to sit back and allow the pastor or the priest to read out the biblical stories and have them translated and explained to them. and the reason for this I found is obvious- it is time.



This mantra that if you have "faith" then you have a "burden of proof" so I win, is beyond childish.   
Well not quite. It is a case of belief and not necessarily faith.  One may well have faith in what he believes, and I have no reason to disbelieve that devout theists have faith in what they believe in.  But if one believes in something such as a god, then the burden of proof is most certainly on the believer when questioned about his beliefs - not to be confused with faith.

But this forum has covered the burden of proof many times to the point where the believer will attempt to completely change the universally accepted fact that the burden of proof lays with he that makes the claim. 

Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?

And are you informed about the subject you are discussing?


so I win, is beyond childish.   

You are welcome to your opinion..... "tradey".
#6
Deb-8-a-bull
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Sunday school leads to full blown church. 

I was a lucky one. 
I did 20 sessions of sunday school.   (  $2 gold coin for the plate per session. ) 
I got out with a door fridge full of prized art work and a quiet extensive range of fine macaroni jewelry.  
I had my mother since give me a valuation on it. And its safe to say that the art work and jewelry alone is worth WAY OVER  (one million dollars ) 

Let us now run the numbers shall we. 
$2 gold coin for the plate per session time 20. =   $ 40
Art & Jewelry =  $ 1,000,000.00  
Sooooooo forty from a mill.  And carry the three. 

This puts me roughly up,   
Oh hang on. 
ACTUALLY 

I've sung approximately 40 to 50 songs to him.   
And i charge ( on average  $10 a song )  Buttttttt,   this is god we are talking about here so, 
 as a show kindness.   $1.    one dollar a song.  
You are welcome.

A honorable Mention.   
I wasn't forced to have sex with anyone. 
So thats  ( $ 0 ) there.  

Long and short. 
I'm well up over nine hundred grand.... 

Thanks 
Thank you. 
#7
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Christmas carols taught me everything i know about our little lord jesus.

Soooooooo stop me when i say something incorrect. 

Stars in the night sky look down where he lay
To be more precise.    Jesus comes from a little town of Bethlehem 

No crying he makes.   

For christ is born of Mary. 

The morning star indicates this.

His bithday is Christmas day.

He got the FINEST gifts.

A little boy with drums played for him. 

Did i happen to mention .   
He slept on a pile of hey for the first night ,  in the manger. 
Its a long story.  

REMEMBER STOP ME WHEN I AM INCORRECT.  

This is but one songs woth of information I've given here. 
I know like 6 or 7 all up, so ive quite an extensive knowledge on the subject. 


Shall i continue ? 
#8
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He was picked on as a kid. 

All of the other kids use to laugh and call him names. 
Apparently they never let poor jesus join in any games

He had a very shiny nose.

HOLD ON A SEC. 
(  'Sings in head '  ) 

NO STOP.    My bad

Scrap all of  that. 
I've  gotten him confused with someone else. 


' so fuckin embarrassed  ' 

Good day. 
#9
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I.cant help but feel .

The more someone knows about jesus, the better off they are.  
When they die. 
Is this correct  ? 

A points system if you will. 

I've only just heard of the bloke before. 

Theists on the other hand . Be al like. 
REAL REAL GOOD FRIENDS THEY ARE WITH JE. ( JE is his knickname that close friends use ) 
Probably BFF'S . Always just shooting the shlt with one another.  
High 5  ing  allll the time. 
Wich has since  evolved into ' fist pumps ' 
The kind of friends that are always looking out for each other. 
Hanging with my homies. 


Hey lets say there is approximately what,
24 hours in one day.  Hear me out.  
How many of these hours is jesus with you ?

NO STOP STOP STOP. 

I know the answer to that one already.
His always ' with ' you.  
So What am i trying to say here.  


Pull ya heads in ....  this ain't no cattle train.  
 

#10
Polytheist-Witch
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Atheists are hate-filled and angry with theists because they think they're better than them. Most resent their parents for being religious and making them learn any type of religion. They constantly argue the Bible is fact and then get upset when someone says they think the Bible is fact. They constantly talk about how we abuse our children and we're mentally ill and that's why they're better than us and our children should be taken from us. They're here to vent that hate because if they did it on the people they know that were theists they wouldn't have any friends or family. It's more than sad it's actually kind of scary. The atheist here is evangelical in their atheism.
#11
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@Stephen
@zedvictor4
Dumb and Dumber. 
Talk about letting the TEAM down 

I'm  guessing it is  one of if not booth you two clowns that has brought this upon us..
Right? 
Seriously who else could it be ?...?


Idiots they think we are .   
This bassed on the little knowledge you two nits know about the jesus.  
Tell me now if you've never once even meet the bloke.
Get it out in the open .  

I should not have to remind you guys that by saying you don't  believing in god means you are insta in a TEAM . 
You know this right? 
You've not just let youselves down here , you've gone and let the TEAM down 


I'll leave you with  a WARNING this time .
however, if this  insubordination  continues,  be prepared  to miss a week or maybe more. 


NOW BRING IT IN.

on the count of three , can i get a goooooooooo team . 


Goooooooooo. TEAM ..  



 
#12
Ehyeh
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@zedvictor4
As long as something is metaphysically possible you cant rule it out. Its just as dead as a nail that atheists constantly go on about how God is not proven therefore why believe? like, most people know this, what's your point? people aren't machine algorithms which only believe what is the most likely. We have emotions and build beliefs off pragmatism too. im also quite the unconventional theist compared to most.
#13
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@Ehyeh
A different type of theist you say.
Whats this different type of theist thing you speak of. ?

Is Every atheist. the same. ?  The answer to this can not be ( no or yes. )

Wow Thats deep ,  ive not noticed that before.   
because every atheist is the same.  ( because its nothing more then what it is. ) 
It isnt even a question..   

What about. 
BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS,  that being ( theists )  I HAVE TO BE A ATHEIST !  
Is that how it works ?  
#14
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I'm a pantheist. I dont really understand what you're saying! potentially rephrase it so my small brain can comprehend your poetic vernacular.
#15
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@Ehyeh
No when i read your post i got to the part you said.   ( im a different tyoe if theists )
I instantly thought what does he mean by this ? 

I then  turned it around and thought  what if i heard someone say. 

Im a diffrent kind of atheist .
How would i take that. 
And it didn't make sense.  Still doesn't.

Anyway yeah. 
Nice to have you here Ehyeh. 
Good day,  
#16
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@Deb-8-a-bull
@Ehyeh
I'm perhaps an unconventional atheist.

Me and Deb both actually.
#17
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@Deb-8-a-bull
@zedvictor4
unconventional:
  1. not adhering to convention; out of the ordinary.
  2. Not adhering to convention or acceptedstandards
  3. Out of the ordinary"

I would say my theistic beliefs are pretty out of the ordinary, wouldn't you say so? with being an atheist, there is no flavours too it, you either are one or you aren't. There's many different kinds of theism. I imagine that's why it sounds weird when you reverse the roles?
#18
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@Ehyeh
I would both disagree and agree.

One can run with either chance or purpose.

And the principle of purpose comes with many possibilities all of which can be referred to as a GOD principle.

I think that atheist /theist ideas have a tendency to be conflated with old style picture book deism, leading to misunderstanding.

The popularly derived Middle Eastern tales have become a pseudo-hypothetical mythology, which to say the least in terms of logic and reason are somewhat full of holes.

And for sure, most atheism on this site is therefore just about pointing out the illogic of the Christian Bible.

There is this magic bloke in the sky, who got a virgin pregnant... And the magic bloke eventually got his son nailed to a post for our sins....Type of baloney.

Whereas the idea of a purposeful creation and ongoing material development is a more logical understanding of a GOD principle.

#19
Shila
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@Sidewalker
I think it’s common for young children to see the Bible as a story book and to have a childish understanding of God as an invisible man in the sky that grants wishes to those who pray.  Of course, as children age and mature their conception of God and their understanding of faith develops and matures beyond such childish ways of understanding things.

Jesus spoke about god at a very young age. His views did not evolve over time. Jesus even believed This childish god was his father.

The Boy Jesus at the Temple
Luke 2:41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[a] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
51 Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

I’m sorry, but this type of Atheism just doesn’t appear to be all that grown up to me, and clinging to such childish ideas about God and faith isn’t what I’d call “deep”.
Are you calling Jesus an atheist?
#20
TWS1405
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Polytheist-Witch,
Atheists are hate-filled and angry with theists because they think they're better than them. Most resent their parents for being religious and making them learn any type of religion. They constantly argue the Bible is fact and then get upset when someone says they think the Bible is fact. They constantly talk about how we abuse our children and we're mentally ill and that's why they're better than us and our children should be taken from us. They're here to vent that hate because if they did it on the people they know that were theists they wouldn't have any friends or family. It's more than sad it's actually kind of scary. The atheist here is evangelical in their atheism.

Wow, you’re just full of yourself. Delusions of grandeur for sure. 

Atheists are NOT hate-filled angry with anyone. Anyone!!! 

The problem with theists is their fanaticism with their religious faith to the point where they have such vitriol for those who don’t agree with them. Your comment above is a shining example of that fact. History is also repeat with example after example of the violence done in His name in order to “spread the word.” So no, it is to you theists who are the “hate-filled angry” ones with anyone and everyone who just wants to be left alone to live their own lives, culture and faith as they have done their entire lives, generation after generation. 
#21
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@Sidewalker
I can understand your childish analogy, it is a-typical of those who do not understand the difference between blind faith and enlightened reason (i.e., logic).

Over the numerous centuries mankind has come to learn the very opposition of what the Bible professes to teach humankind. The earth wasn’t created in 5500 to 4000 BC, its billions of years old. The earth is not flat, it is round. The earth is not the center of the universe, the sun is. An earthquake is not an act of God, it’s tectonic plates rubbing and shifting upon the other. Lighting isn’t God being angry and smiting anyone, it’s a geological event. Need I go on?

The point is, over time we humans have become more enlightened, more reasoned, more intelligent in the ways of understanding the world we live in. While the Bible is for all intent a purpose, a historical record much like the hieroglyphs found in Egypt, Central American temples of ancient human beings, neither are without their fantastical tales of mythical beings (i.e., deities). In fact, all religions around the world have a common thread. A thread that is more tied to extraterrestrial encounters than a single God encounter through sunlight through a cloud to a burning bush on a mountain with a strange voice. Meaning, no one has ever seen, literally seen in person, the God written of in either the Old or New Testament. Oh, Jesus was not [a] God. He was just a man of zealous faith that rocked the boat the Jews and Romans were operating, and they didn’t like it. So they threw him overboard (i.e., crucified him).

Enlightened people read and look at the Bible as merely a book written by men with the sole purpose of controlling mankind through fear of unseeable evils (demons, devil, possessions) and damnation (hell). It’s easy to control the masses when they are kept ignorant and in fear of those with power and control (i.e., the church and those who execute the “men of God” marching orders. 

The Old Testament paints a crystal clear picture of a jealous, vengeful, hateful, sinful, envious and childish God. All characteristics/traits of a human being. Men who wrote the Bible wrote from the only framework they knew, their own (i.e. they personified their version of what God is/was to them). Over time they came to realize that that version of God was not working. Hence the New Testament and the life of Jesus, the son of a carpenter and simple woman used as a new take on a more benevolent version of God. One not so violent, envious, jealous and child-like. 

When those of us with intelligence read and reason with the Bible, we see a fable, a mere historical record to be read and treated as just that. A fable intertwined with human history and some actual events and places, but still a fable. A very long one at that. 
#22
Shila
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@TWS1405

Polytheist-Witch,
Atheists are hate-filled and angry with theists because they think they're better than them. Most resent their parents for being religious and making them learn any type of religion. They constantly argue the Bible is fact and then get upset when someone says they think the Bible is fact. They constantly talk about how we abuse our children and we're mentally ill and that's why they're better than us and our children should be taken from us. They're here to vent that hate because if they did it on the people they know that were theists they wouldn't have any friends or family. It's more than sad it's actually kind of scary. The atheist here is evangelical in their atheism.

Wow, you’re just full of yourself. Delusions of grandeur for sure. 

Atheists are NOT hate-filled angry with anyone. Anyone!!! 

The problem with theists is their fanaticism with their religious faith to the point where they have such vitriol for those who don’t agree with them. Your comment above is a shining example of that fact. History is also repeat with example after example of the violence done in His name in order to “spread the word.” So no, it is to you theists who are the “hate-filled angry” ones with anyone and everyone who just wants to be left alone to live their own lives, culture and faith as they have done their entire lives, generation after generation. 
Christians burnt witches. Turning atheists against witches too is one way to keep the flames alive.

#23
Lair77
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@Sidewalker

There seems to be a group of very vocal Atheists
There's always a vocal minority on any belief (in religion, politics, cultural, or anything).  The silent majority of people keep their beliefs to themselves and just live their life.  Going on the internet disproportional exposes you to people who are vocal about their views.

#24
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@Shila
Christians burnt witches. Turning atheists against witches too is one way to keep the flames alive.
That had less to do with religion and more to do with a land grab. Religion was used as the easy excuse to kill the land owners or their spouses to run them off. 

#25
Shila
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@TWS1405
--> @Shila
Christians burnt witches. Turning atheists against witches too is one way to keep the flames alive.
That had less to do with religion and more to do with a land grab. Religion was used as the easy excuse to kill the land owners or their spouses to run them off. 
Where does it say witches were landowners?

Witch definition: a woman thought to have magic powers, especially evil ones, popularly depicted as wearing a black cloak and pointed hat and flying on a broomstick.

#26
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@Shila
Where does it say witches were landowners?

Witch definition: a woman thought to have magic powers, especially evil ones, popularly depicted as wearing a black cloak and pointed hat and flying on a broomstick.

You clearly know nothing about the Salem Witch Trials. 



Topic's author
#27
Sidewalker
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@Stephen
I think you would be hard pressed to find a grade schooler that doesn't know that belief in God is a matter of faith,
Of course, it's a matter of faith and as you say; most 21st century grade school students understands this. 
And most of our most vocal atheists don’t.


how is it possible that so many Atheists can't grasp that concept?

Atheist probably understand this more so than the theists. 
Then why do they blather on and on about evidence, burden of proof, and unicorns.    
 
From the originating post: “It just seems that they are using the faith discussion to brag about how they are all grown up now and so they don’t believe in the invisible man in the sky anymore”.   I suppose I should have mentioned that they brag that they know more than theists.  Why is this asserted so desperately?

Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?
To my knowledge, it is the atheist that studies these ancient scriptures more deeply than the theist. The theist for the most part is happy to sit back and allow the pastor or the priest to read out the biblical stories and have them translated and explained to them. and the reason for this I found is obvious- it is time.
That’s desperation, I almost forgot that atheists are the experts on theism, I guess that’s why atheists feel they need to tell theists exactly how to be theists. 
 
Oh great religious scholar, please tell me all about the invisible bearded man in the sky.

This mantra that if you have "faith" then you have a "burden of proof" so I win, is beyond childish.   
Well not quite. It is a case of belief and not necessarily faith.  One may well have faith in what he believes, and I have no reason to disbelieve that devout theists have faith in what they believe in.  But if one believes in something such as a god, then the burden of proof is most certainly on the believer when questioned about his beliefs - not to be confused with faith.
So you also don’t grasp the concept of faith either.  The theist professes faith in a transcendent reality, the assertion is that they have faith, the atheists that claims there is a burden of proof that assigns to faith doesn’t understand the word “faith”, and doesn’t understand the concept of burden of proof.

But this forum has covered the burden of proof many times to the point where the believer will attempt to completely change the universally accepted fact that the burden of proof lays with he that makes the claim. 
By “universally accepted fact” I presume you are asserting that it is an article of faith within your atheist fundamentalism,  Mommy Mommy, look at you, you’re swimming in the deep end LOL
 
Perhaps you could add a dictionary to all those ancient scriptures you study so deeply;
 
FAITH:
2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?
And are you informed about the subject you are discussing?
Yes, I even know how to use a dictionary.
 
But hey, you’re the expert, if I’m doing it wrong, please do teach me how to be a theist.

so I win, is beyond childish.   
You are welcome to your opinion..... "tradey".
Do you believe you are conscious?  Do you believe in the existence of a physical universe? 

If so, then you have the burden of proof, can you prove it?
#28
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@Deb-8-a-bull
-->@Stephen @zedvictor4
Dumb and Dumber. 
Talk about letting the TEAM down 


I gave my response to the OP here Deb

>>>>   #5
#29
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See i think the problem here is 

Posts like these  ABOUT  and  TO the Atheists need to go to a much higher level atheist then any of us on site.to make a impact.

Every single atheist on this site is a mere " level 1 "  ranked atheist.
I dont think this site has ever had a  " levle 2 " post any comment whatsoever. ( I'll need to check this not 100 % sure. ) 
But ummmm ' kicks dirt ' 

Well it just so happens to be your lucky day. 
I personally,   know a level 3 atheist with whom i can approach with pretty much any topic. 
I will, 
out of good ummmm faith.,  hehe 
   put to him thats  we, thats us,  he, him and alllllllllll  the other  atheists  need to STOP making fun of the jesus dude.

I'll then say to him .. .   
Its not alllllll like big Arcs and people from ribs and walking on water and shlt..
Well it is buttttttttttttt 
there like  much much more..  

Im sure this will shock him.  Leaving him Unable to answer . 
He may suggest that we take this up with a ( level 5 )  
Thats right . 
A Level 5 
Thats,  only two away from level 7 
' pauses  ' 

Yeah so A Level 5 atheist could surely answer any query that comes off this site. 

I hope you lot can appreciate what i am doing here for you guys. 
By breaking , 
The first and second rule of atheist club , i will surly be delt with harshly.  
You are welcome. 

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Stephen
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@Ehyeh
with being an atheist, there is no flavours too it, you either are one or you aren't.

Basically, I believe the bible, but not as it has come down and been passed on to us by pastors and priests over the millennia and of course minus the miracles. So I am not sure what that makes me.