Religious Liberty Task Force

Author: SkepticalOne

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@ethang5
This is your personal opinion. Last I checked, the constitution was not interpreted using your personal opinion. Sessions has a whole team of lawyers, and did not create the task force in secret. Your anti-thrism is confusing you.
So, if Achmed Sessions were to use the Qu'ran to justify actions of the US government, you'd be fine with that? This is not a matter of anti-theism, E.

It's funny how things are always so clear to the befuddled. Do you not remember the recent case of the cake maker and what the supreme court said about his religious rights being violated by government anti-religious bias?
I'm familiar with the case.  The decision of the court was narrow and did not rule on the actions of the baker...and he is being sued again for the same stuff (because it's still illegal).
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@ethang5
Seven different levels of burning hell would have broken loose.
Lol. You have a way with words my friend.
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@SkepticalOne
You've spelled out exactly my concerns. It is concerning more people dont see this as a problem and recognize it as a potential attack on religious freedom.
I'll suspend judgment until I hear that the task force has actually done something worth being concerned about. If it remains unbiased, protects all religions equally, doesn't infringe upon the liberties of the non-religious, and doesn't push people around under the guise of "defending religious freedom", then I will have no problem with it.
ethang5
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@SkepticalOne
So, if Achmed Sessions were to use the Qu'ran to justify actions of the US government, you'd be fine with that? This is not a matter of anti-theism, E.
If he were logical, I would have no problem with it. But he was not using the bible to justify actions of the US government. You just think so and cannot see that your opinion is not reality.

I'm familiar with the case.  The decision of the court was narrow and did not rule on the actions of the baker...
Exactly, because we aren't talking about the actions of the religious. The court ruled that his religious liberty had been abused by the government. Why is a task force to make sure that doesn't happen a wrong move?

and he is being sued again for the same stuff (because it's still illegal).
You're missing the point. The argument here does not concern the actions of the religious. Your antireligious bias is evident.
SkepticalOne
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@ethang5
If he were logical, I would have no problem with it. 
The reality is religious books are not needed to justify actions of a secular government. If they hold value to you, then fine, but don;t use them to speak for other people who may or may not share your religious views and recognize them as any sort of a justification.

Exactly, because we aren't talking about the actions of the religious.
That's the problem. Being religious is not an excuse to break the law.  ...And now we have a task force to to crack down on those evil non-Christians who don't want to be subject to religious privilege and/or law.  That'll fix 'em!

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@SkepticalOne
The reality is religious books are not needed to justify actions of a secular government.

Please stop being paranoid and silly. Sessions was not justifying anything. Your fantasy is just that. Fantasy.

If they hold value to you, then fine, but don;t use them to speak for other people who may or may not share your religious views and recognize them as any sort of a justification.
OK. And since he didn't do that, its a non-issue.

That's the problem.
Untrue. The problem, according to the Supreme Court, was a government antagonistic to religious rights. Were you on that California board, you would have validated and approved of their abuse of his religious rights. The supreme court ruled you wrong and in violation of the constitution.

:Being religious is not an excuse to break the law.

And being an anti-theist is not an excuse to violate the religious rights of citizens. Observe, though the supreme court ruled that the California board violated the cake maker's rights, you are completely unconcerned and can see only his alleged violation.

...And now we have a task force to to crack down on those evil non-Christians who don't want to be subject to religious privilege and/or law.  That'll fix 'em!
Right. The supreme court was wrong. I have no obligation to respect inane opinions.
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@Castin
I'll suspend judgment until I hear that the task force has actually done something worth being concerned about. If it remains unbiased, protects all religions equally, doesn't infringe upon the liberties of the non-religious, and doesn't push people around under the guise of "defending religious freedom", then I will have no problem with it. 
There is a (somewhat) open question about whether or not we should accept as a check on government power and abuse the character of the people that populate it. That is, should we judge whether or not to allow the government have some power based upon how the best person will use it or based upon how the worst person will use it.

If we recognize that it is much harder to take away power than it is to grant it, then I think it is prudent to err on the side of very reluctantly allowing power to increase, no matter how favorably we view the person currently wielding it. You can never know who will end up wielding that power in the future. For example, I liked Obama and think he was a decent president and a good man. Yet I objected to his use of drone strikes. My feelings about Obama's use of that power notwithstanding, that power (which has allowed to persist) now rests in the hands of someone who is, generously speaking, an unstable megalomaniac.
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@ethang5
Session defending immigration policies with religion:

And being an anti-theist is not an excuse to violate the religious rights of citizens. 

Discrimination is not a religious right.

Also, I've been referring to Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission. I'm not familiar with a case from California.
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@SkepticalOne

 defending immigration policies with religion:
When did the Washington Post become a constitutional authority?

Discrimination is not a religious right.
Neither is it a governmental or atheistic right.

Colorado Civil Rights Commission. 
My bad, One and the same. That is the type who the task force is for.
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@ethang5
When did the Washington Post become a constitutional authority?
It hardly takes a constitutional authority to recognize religion walking with government policies violates the establishment clause. Plus, I'm just making sure we're referring to the same events. 

Neither is it a governmental or atheistic right

Agreed. However, assuming the board did discriminate against Phillips (I haven't heard exactly what was said), it does not wash away his discrimination of homosexuals. He is in court again, so let us hope he is appropriately called to the carpet this time.


ethang5
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@SkepticalOne
It hardly takes a constitutional authority to recognize religion walking with government policies violates the establishment clause. 
Right. And since that didn't happen, it is a non-issue.


However, assuming the board did discriminate against Phillips...
No assumption needed. The Supreme Court ruled that the board did infact discriminate against Phillips. That must be so hard for you to comprehend.

it does not wash away his discrimination of homosexuals. 
This thread is not about that. Plus, he has not been convicted of anything yet, so please curb your irrational bias.

so let us hope he is appropriately called to the carpet this time.
I will hope he wins his case and political correctness is not allowed anywhere near that court. And with Trumps recent additions to the supreme court, the possibility of common sense in the court is increased.

24 days later

Castin
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@drafterman
*blows dust off thread*

I'll suspend judgment until I hear that the task force has actually done something worth being concerned about. If it remains unbiased, protects all religions equally, doesn't infringe upon the liberties of the non-religious, and doesn't push people around under the guise of "defending religious freedom", then I will have no problem with it. 
There is a (somewhat) open question about whether or not we should accept as a check on government power and abuse the character of the people that populate it. That is, should we judge whether or not to allow the government have some power based upon how the best person will use it or based upon how the worst person will use it.

If we recognize that it is much harder to take away power than it is to grant it, then I think it is prudent to err on the side of very reluctantly allowing power to increase, no matter how favorably we view the person currently wielding it. You can never know who will end up wielding that power in the future. For example, I liked Obama and think he was a decent president and a good man. Yet I objected to his use of drone strikes. My feelings about Obama's use of that power notwithstanding, that power (which has allowed to persist) now rests in the hands of someone who is, generously speaking, an unstable megalomaniac.
Very well put together argument. I seem to have forgotten to tell you so last month.
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@drafterman
Power shifts from the Legislative to the other 2 branches will continue as long as there are no term limits in the legislature.

Incumbency is the name of the game in D.C.... and that means passing the buck whenever that vital bastion of power is threatened.



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@Greyparrot
I agree with term limits, but you'd think the incumbant reelection rate would mean Congress would consolidate it's power. But they've consistently voluntarily ceded power to the executive.
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@drafterman
When Washington stepped down after 2 terms, it wasn't because he was afraid of too much power. It was because he felt politicians were most effective if they came in, made certain reforms, and then left. He cited Cincinnatus as his model of government service. Politicians that come in, make reforms, and then remain in office for 30-40 years have an incentive to create problems that only they can fix; and that's the REAL problem with incumbency.

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@SkepticalOne
So much for the separation of Church and State. People should be free to worship and also free to curse religions.