Why are so many resilient to fact-based truth regarding black criminality?

Author: TWS1405

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@SkepticalOne
For some unknown reason, you seem to be under the impression opinion and propaganda carry equivalent weight to data and objective analysis of it. Only the latter (which I provided) qualifies as fact.

Nope. Not even close. 

Opinion pieces cite both common knowledge (which requires no citations to data, because... it is COMMON knowledge) and verifiable data. You're just refusing to read and consider the info provided therein because of the source and style of the piece. Hence the observation of you committing the genetic fallacy. Still. 
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@rbelivb
It stands to reason that any community disproportionately living in poverty would have higher crime rates. The visible crimes of any society are committed, and exist, to the extent that it has developed an underclass - the invisible crimes are committed to the extent that it has developed an elite.
It has less to do with poverty and more to do with fatherlessness, lack of a proper upbringing by the single parent, lack of discipline, and lack of the sense and importance of taking personal responsibility and accountability for their choices and actions. 

When there is proper upbringing with an adult taking an interest in the child's life, they learn discipline, respect for not only others but themselves, and they take personal responsibility and accountability for their choices and actions. There are plenty of examples of people born into poverty and make something marvelous of themselves and their life. If you need a list of examples, I would be more than happy to provide it.

The question, though, is why you think this is the case, or what you are trying to infer or accomplish by amplifying these statistics. Are you implying that these people are genetically inferior, or do you believe that their crime rates could be improved by moving the black community out of poverty?

Why what is the case? Be more specific. 

The only thing I am implying is that the left, democratic blacks, and white guilt liberals refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem within the black community that no one wants to address and work to fix. Can't fix a problem unless you admit there is a problem. To them there is no problem other than white supremacy, which is a false narrative. 

Moving anyone out of poverty removes the consequences of their choices and actions that keeps them in poverty. That will not work. They will just end up back in poverty. They need to learn discipline, respect, and the importance of taking personal responsibility and accountability for their choices and actions - and understand the consequences of any bad choices and actions they make. 
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@TWS1405
Can't fix a problem unless you admit there is a problem.
what is your policy proposal ?
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@TWS1405
Our society believes that money is everything that matters. Everything revolves around money. In many cases money even destroys relationships.

Democrats and the left believe that if we throw money at the problem, it will go away. Best example is schooling. We spend the most per pupil but are like 50th for results and scoring. What’s the reason? Relationships. Specifically a nuclear household and a cultural identity.

If you look at certain cultures that value familial relations like Asian and Indian American, they always are at the top of the pack for schooling and income. They also assimilate while maintaining aspects of their cultural origins.

With African Americans, the problem is relationships. Democrats want to throw money at them, but money doesn’t build relationships. Reperations are not going to solve the problem of black on black crime and poverty. There’s a reason why during the times of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement African Americans were united, both in a cultural sense and relationship sense. White segregationists opened the crack and exploited it, and have been for decades (both Dems and Repubs). 

Having a father figure and a mother is the best cure you can offer to the black community. If money is how we want to proceed, promote fatherhood activism. Promote what it means to be a father. Reward black fathers if you have to. The relationship is sacred. Money is not.

That’s my two cents on the topic.
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@ILikePie5
We spend the most per pupil but are like 50th for results and scoring.

Best Public High Schools In The World 
The highly rated public high schools in the world are;

  • Stevenson High School - - Livonia, MI
  • Bergen County Academies - - Hackensack, NJ
  • Saratoga High School - - Saratoga, CA
  • Biotechnology High School - - Monmouth County, NJ
  • Tenafly High School - - Bergen County, NJ
  • Los Angeles High School - - Los Angeles, CA
  • Novi High School - - Novi, MI
  • Ruston High School - - Ruston, LA
  • River Hill High School - - Clarksville, MD
  • Weston High School - - Weston, CT
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@3RU7AL
>>what is your policy proposal ?<<

Tough love. 
Shock therapy. No, not the electric kind, but rather hitting them hard with facts and correlating them to real life examples of the negative effects their lack of personal responsibility and accountability for their choices has upon them not only as individuals, but as a community. Then give them real life examples of those who took personal responsibility and accountability for the children brought into this world, regardless of circumstances (i.e., fatherlessness, motherlessness, raised by another family member, etc.), resulting in law abiding and highly productive successful members of society. Instill pride in them even down to the smallest of things (e.g., a bicycle, a car, a home, a home's yard, etc.) and what it means to appreciate the things you have and not take them or anyone else for granted. Appreciation for life. Their life. Their relative's lives. Their neighbor's lives. And the need to seek justice for slights against them and those they know by cooperating with law enforcement. But most of all, they need to respect themselves before they can learn to respect others. Build confidence and self-esteem. Be a go-getter, not go-gang banger. If Abraham Lincoln can be born into poverty, become self-educated and then grow up to become President of the United States...anyone born into any situation can become anything that they want to be and work hard to become. 

That's the short version. I would have to write a book with a chapter dedicated to each measure to properly explain it. 
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@3RU7AL
Best Public High Schools In The World 
The highly rated public high schools in the world are;

  • Stevenson High School - - Livonia, MI
  • Bergen County Academies - - Hackensack, NJ
  • Saratoga High School - - Saratoga, CA
  • Biotechnology High School - - Monmouth County, NJ
  • Tenafly High School - - Bergen County, NJ
  • Los Angeles High School - - Los Angeles, CA
  • Novi High School - - Novi, MI
  • Ruston High School - - Ruston, LA
  • River Hill High School - - Clarksville, MD
  • Weston High School - - Weston, CT
A.) What are the demographics of the schools
B.) I was talking overall; these results should be in every school
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@TWS1405
I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone prominent - no one outside the odd Twitter crazy - that has materially objected to murder and violent crime rate - other than to point out that there is some level and some forms of racial skew in many types of crime statistics - which there is.

So on that basis - I think it’s  rather disingenuous and largely arguing from a false premise to accuse the left of denying something I don’t really see being substantively denied outside the odd Twitter crazy.

What is largely objected to, reasonably, is the inherently subtle, and occasionally not-so subtly implication you’re making - why is the black murder rate higher than the white murder rate. 

One can either attribute that to some as yet unknown racial or genetic factors - that whites are somehow “better” than blacks - that they’re just bad parents, don’t discipline their kids, that black people are just bad at stuff, and because they’re black, they’re more likely to murder - etc. This, depending on what action you wish to take on is just thinly veiled white supremacy, and in cases were you just openly denigrate a race for being inherently bad at some current social measure than whites that veil is largely lifted entirely. Indeed, terminating your superficial search for why’s at behaviour you can attribute to the nature of the individuals themselves without looking any deeper is often used as pretence to oppress people and to justify open racism.

Alternatively you can attribute it to complex sociopolitical factors; many of which have historical race components. For example things like, say, the social impact of the crack epidemic - caused in part due to mass poverty and historical redlining, mass incarceration that resulted in the collapse of family structure in many poor black communities; which in turn can fuel crime - as abuse, poor parenting, and broken families are one of the most substantial correlates with crime in the us.

Group behavioural trends are the incredibly complex interaction of innumerable factors, with genetics being a largely minor player in the churning mix. Add into this generational impact of various sociopolitical factors: if parents are exposed to some negative impact, it may impact their children, who can then impact their children - and on and on.

It’s almost impossible to draw causal conclusions from correlating this data - especially given the glut of data from a variety of locales and times that indicate the wild variability of murder and violent crime rates sliced across everything.

Even if such correlates did equate to causation  - even if, say, a correlating gene was found that was specifically linked to and a causal factor of violent crime - does this mean that one must treat those with the gene as inferior - and tailor social policy to restrict their rights? Of course not; social policy and support should be promoted to prevent what is a genetic risk factor from being realized - in the same way we do for, say, cancers. 

This sort of attempt at argument; is not really logical or honest attempt at assessing the truth. It appears to be just finding a data and argument to try and provide a reasonable sounding justification for the racial views and prejudices you already have by analyzing what is inherently cherry picked data with a very narrow interpretation that doesn’t consider the wider picture.
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@Ramshutu
mass incarceration that resulted in the collapse of family structure
exactly
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@ILikePie5
A.) What are the demographics of the schools
B.) I was talking overall; these results should be in every school
the point here is that the united states has the best schools in the world

apparently, title 9 means nothing
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@TWS1405
hitting them hard with facts and correlating them to real life examples of the negative effects their lack of personal responsibility
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@ILikePie5
Equal Educational Opportunities Act - Declares it to be the policy of the United States that all children enrolled in public schools are entitled to equal educational opportunity without regard to race, color, sex, or national origin; and that the neighborhood is the appropriate basis for determining public school assignments. States that the purpose of this Act is to authorize concentration of resources under the Emergency School Aid Act on educationally deprived students and to specify appropriate remedies for the orderly removal of the vestiges of the dual school system.

Title I: Assistance - Provides financial assistance for educationally deprived students enrolled in schools with a high proportion of students from low-income families, or transferring from such schools to schools enrolling a lower proportion of students from low-income families. Authorizes grants from State educational agencies to local educational agencies adopting and implementing plans for such students. Sets requirements for State educational agency plans and applications under this section. Authorizes appropriations for payments to States under this section of $500,000,000 for each fiscal year. Provides for judicial review for a State following final action on its plan.
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@TWS1405
Top 10 Countries with the Highest Murder Rates (per 100k people) in 2017:*

  1. El Salvador (61.7)
  2. Honduras (41.0)
  3. Venezuela (49.9)
  4. United States Virgin Islands (49.3 [2012 data])
  5. Jamaica (56.4)
  6. Lesotho (43.6 [[2016 data]] per 100k people)
  7. Belize (37.8)
  8. Saint Vincent And The Grenadines (36.5 [2016 data])
  9. Saint Kitts And Nevis (36.1 [2012 data])
  10. South Africa (35.7)
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@3RU7AL
the point here is that the united states has the best schools in the world

apparently, title 9 means nothing
That’s irrelevant. We are spending the most per pupil but getting results that are worse than other nations. “Best high schools” doesn’t mean much. What factors are they measuring? Cleanliness? Why are they the best schools.
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@3RU7AL
3Ru......Best Public High Schools In The World.........
.............The highly rated public high schools in the world are;........
.........Top 10 Countries with the Highest Murder Rates (per 100k people) in 2017:*
...." The numbers are staggering: Seventy-one percent of young people are ineligible to join the military, according to 2017 Pentagon data. 

.......The reasons: obesity, no high school diploma or a criminal record.

........The problem isn't just a military one, though: It's an issue for businesses as well because the vast majority of that age group isn't eligible for many jobs either, said retired Rear Admiral Thomas Wilson.....

 .....The 29 percent of 17- to 24-year-olds who are qualified become prime targets for all recruiting: military, college and jobs.
Wilson calls it “a war for the qualified.” Steve Doster, Pennsylvania State director of Military Readiness for Council for a Strong America, agrees it's a problem.

.....“This is a very real risk to our national security,” Doster said. The solution could start in childhood....

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@3RU7AL
Equal Educational Opportunities Act - Declares it to be the policy of the United States that all children enrolled in public schools are entitled to equal educational opportunity without regard to race, color, sex, or national origin; and that the neighborhood is the appropriate basis for determining public school assignments. States that the purpose of this Act is to authorize concentration of resources under the Emergency School Aid Act on educationally deprived students and to specify appropriate remedies for the orderly removal of the vestiges of the dual school system.
So? I’ve already said our current policy is throwing money at schools. It’s not working though.

Title I: Assistance - Provides financial assistance for educationally deprived students enrolled in schools with a high proportion of students from low-income families, or transferring from such schools to schools enrolling a lower proportion of students from low-income families.
And so? I’ve already said the government spends an insane amount of money per pupil with subpar results. You have yet to address how spending money =/= better education.

Authorizes grants from State educational agencies to local educational agencies adopting and implementing plans for such students. Sets requirements for State educational agency plans and applications under this section. Authorizes appropriations for payments to States under this section of $500,000,000 for each fiscal year. Provides for judicial review for a State following final action on its plan.
Irrelevant.

All I’m saying is the current strategy of throwing money is not working. In two posts you fail to address why this is the case.
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@ILikePie5
We are spending the most per pupil but getting results that are worse than other nations.
please give specific examples of overfunded schools performing below average
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@ebuc
i'm not suggest that EVERY SCHOOL IN THE UNITED STATES is a great school

i'm simply pointing out that the top ranked schools IN THE WORLD are in the united states

clearly, the united states knows how to create great schools
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@3RU7AL
Yeah I get you 3Ru, just saw an opening to inject some data I saw on tv yesterday regarding obesity etc dissallowing military service of %71 or more of youth.

I already knew that this generation of youth since 90's had be growing on non-healty fast food diet.  See Walmart fat people as the exaggerated version of what has happened.John F Kennedy was concerned in early 60's that 50% of youth were not eligible for military service now its 71- 75%.

Humanity is going in incorrect direction.  These kinds  of data plus crimmiality of any race is just some of the resultant factors of racism and much more.
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@TWS1405
You are exactly correct. The simple reason is that liberals do not believe in collective differences between people. Some groups are more violent, some are faster, some are smarter, etc. For example, whites will dominate in strongmen competitions, but will never see the light of day in long-distance running. East Asians dominate in math, Germans are good at Physics, Northern + Eastern Europeans are good with computers and video games, Ireland produces poets, and Britain produces great novelists and inventors. (America produces nothing, sadly) Everybody naturally knows this, and can recognize these differences between people. But, liberals only look at people through an individualist lens(blank slate). They think everyone is truly unique and awesome. Nope, you are not special, and your life is largely determined by your genes. It's why poverty doesn't have an effect on black violence. The richest blacks commit more crime than the poorest whites.
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@3RU7AL
please give specific examples of overfunded schools performing below average
Here’s your evidence made easier to understand. Please explain why the US spends the most per student but math and science test scores are below countries that spend less. If spending money and test results are positively correlated, more money should equal higher scores, not less.

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@Ramshutu
Change a few words and it sounds like an article posted in a southern newspaper in the 1950s responding to criticism of segregation and lynchings


I don't believe I've seen anyone prominent - no one outside the odd "Lost Cause" crazy - that has materially objected to the subjugation and violent crime committed by southern whites against black people.

What is largely objected to, reasonably, is the inherently subtle, and occasionally not-so subtly implication you’re making - why is the white southern crime rate higher than the white northern crime rate. 

One can either attribute that to some as yet unknown racial or genetic factors - that whites in the north are somehow “better” than whites in the south- that they’re just bad parents, don’t discipline their kids, that white southerners are just bad at stuff, and because they’re white southerners, they’re more likely to murder, oppress others - etc. This, depending on what action you wish to take on is just thinly veiled bigotry, and in cases were you just openly denigrate an ethnic group for being inherently bad at some current social measure than northern whites that veil is largely lifted entirely. Indeed, terminating your superficial search for why’s at behaviour you can attribute to the nature of the individuals themselves without looking any deeper is often used as pretence to oppress people and to justify open bigotry.

Alternatively you can attribute it to complex sociopolitical factors; many of which have historical economic components. For example things like, say, the social impact of the reconstruction and the destruction of the southern economy - caused in part due to overzealous northern prosecution of the war and historical and modern day tariffs, poverty that resulted in the collapse of family structure in many poor white southern communities; which in turn can fuel crime and race hatred - as abuse, poor parenting, and broken families are one of the most substantial correlates with crime in the us.

Group behavioural trends are the incredibly complex interaction of innumerable factors, with genetics being a largely minor player in the churning mix. Add into this generational impact of various sociopolitical factors: if parents are exposed to some negative impact, it may impact their children, who can then impact their children - and on and on.

It’s almost impossible to draw causal conclusions from correlating this data - especially given the glut of data from a variety of locales and times that indicate the wild variability of murder and violent crime rates sliced across everything.

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@3RU7AL
i'm simply pointing out that the top ranked schools IN THE WORLD are in the united states
Again that’s a strawman. You leave out the criteria that make them the “top-ranked schools,” pretty conveniently
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@Dr.Franklin
Natural ability and proclivity are entirely different things. Ireland produces poets because we're a tiny, helpless island off the leviathan that is Europe. You could have reasoned that sort of psychology about an Irishman having never known a thing about Ireland. I kind of like the idea of a psychology of geography. America, further over and bigger, produces egomaniacs. 
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@badger
 I kind of like the idea of a psychology of geography. America, further over and bigger, produces egomaniacs. 
This seems to be true. Are American tourists as bad as they say?
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@thett3
You guys play a lot of golf and you tip well haha. The voice is a bit grating, never like off TV. I probably sound very anti-American. We're all just people. 
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I used make a lot of money caddying for Americans as a kid. I guess I can forgive you guys a war or two. 
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@badger
If geography determines genes than it makes sense why Europeans are the way they are. They are generally more individualistic because they had to survive the brutal ice age, and they dominated geopolitics because they lived through harsh conditions. Blacks never had to invent or develop a great civilization because if they wanted to survive, they just hunted, and really couldn't grow much food. Jews didn't have a homeland until '48 because their ancestry is of Cain and Esau, which the Bible described them as nomads. Plus, most jews are descended from khazaria, a nomad kingdom.

So yeah, Ireland has a knack for poetry because they were isolated and became spiritual in peace(I theorize that), and also they love alcohol
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@Dr.Franklin
They are generally more individualistic because they had to survive the brutal ice age, and they dominated geopolitics because they lived through harsh conditions. Blacks never had to invent or develop a great civilization because if they wanted to survive, they just hunted, and really couldn't grow much food. 
This is all basically the point of Guns, Germs and Steel. Where, then, are you taking this idea from that black criminality is down to genetics? It's more parsimoniously explained by this idea of psychology of circumstance. I mean, it might be harder to draw out, because that's human soul, but you're easily seeing the beginnings of sense in it. 
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@badger
I think it’s normal to have some resentment towards Americans. America is such a cultural behemoth the likes of which the world has never seen. Even if it’s unintentional (and I think it is) there’s a lot of cultural imperialism going on 

I used to think America had issues assimilating immigrants but that was an incredibly, almost unimaginably incorrect belief. America is doing a great job of assimilating people who have never even set foot into America into having strong opinions about American politics, watching American media, caring about American celebrities, speaking English, eating American foods and following American fashion…my problem was that they were assimilating into a culture I don’t like and don’t agree with. But the entire world seems to be going that exact same way. It really boggled my mind to see images of George Floyd protests all over the world. “It’s someone who was killed in another country!” I thought

But it seems like the whole world is becoming a sort of America-lite and I would be pretty pissed about that if I were someone who wasn’t American. Coming from an ancient and rich culture and was watching it dissolve before my eyes in favor of pizza and Netflix