Why are so many resilient to fact-based truth regarding black criminality?

Author: TWS1405

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@Danielle
Trayvon Martin was a 17 year old kid walking home with Skittles that led to his being harassed and killed -- but you're describing him as a wannabe murderer? Is there a reason other than being a racist piece of shit that you would presume Trayvon Martin had an interest in killing people? 
Huh, why would I think that Trayvon wanted to murder someone…. Hmmmm. Maybe it had to do with him trying to beat the shit out of a neighborhood watchman and got shot because of it?

He had skittles? More like a bloodlust. The lacerations on Zimmerman’s head and grass stains on his back proved that.

Knowing basic facts about a self-defense shooting isn’t racist

Oh please. When have you or conservatives generally ever taken a stand for white people being victimized by cops?  Stop pretending that you give a shit about ANYONE being killed or harassed by police just because you're tired of hearing black people complain about it. Ya'll lick boots like nobody's business.
There were protests. But the story doesn’t stick around when MSM ignores it. Maybe if he had taken fentanyl and had different parents, people would have cared.


It seems odd that the "pro life" crowd would be so hostile to society wanting to make sure people aren't being unjustly killed.
I detest those terms. “Pro-life” and “pro-choice” are specific abortion euphemisms, not political ideologies.


Look people aren't glorifying the lives of Mike Brown and George Floyd because they want to commemorate their criminal behavior. Instead they are trying to humanize victims of police that they believe are needlessly killed.
they aren’t humanizing, they are deifying. They are claiming miracles where Floyd died and calling it sacred ground.

Just because someone is a criminal or piece of shit person doesn't mean the state has carte blanche to murder them. There's this little thing we have in the United States called DUE PROCESS, and when cops kill people unnecessarily (especially if they're unarmed) it should draw scrutiny and backlash to ensure we're holding law enforcement accountable to the standards and rights that we are all afforded in this country. Cops have more rights than regular citizens and should be held to a higher standard when it comes to violence by government actors. That doesn't mean they should be vilified in every instance of aggression, but they should welcome all scrutiny and investigation as should anyone that cares about the law and our constitutional rights.
I agree.

And I can’t speak for you personally, but the presumption always seems to be against the cops before any information comes out.

So many dipshit protestors in the 2020 riots still believed in “hands up don’t shoot” when the real case was he was punching an officer and trying to steal his gun.

Almost every high-profile police black killing was justified and/or reasonable based on circumstances. It’s clear that these are just blatant attacks on cops, and recognizing that isn’t boot licking
Danielle
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@TWS1405
Why on earth would anyone waste a single minute of their time watching videos of black people act stupid? 

Anyway I don't doubt that people have a hard time with statistics, but I do suspect you weren't blocked on social sites for simply presenting the data lol. You probably said something problematic along with the numbers. It's not racist to cite the stats, but it is racist to suggest that black people have a predisposition to immoral behavior or something like that. People aren't hardwired for violence based on the amount of melanin in their skin. I'm sure you know that. 

What is your point in discussing how much crime blacks commit? Are you advocating for or against a specific policy or something? 
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@Danielle
@bmdrocks21
"Almost every high-profile police black killing was justified and/or reasonable based on circumstances. It’s clear that these are just blatant attacks on cops, and recognizing that isn’t boot licking."
100% accurate assessment there! But Danielle is a fundamentalist who likely has Ben Crump and Shaun King at the top of her liked/friends list, so she won't listen to reason. I mean really, she came out the gate calling you a racist just like every other lefty democratic believer in the race baiting rhetoric built on lies they turn a blind eye to. 
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@oromagi
Based on victims’ perceptions, about 1.7 million violent incidents in 2019 were committed against white persons by offenders who were white, 346,260 violent incidents were committed against black persons by offenders who were black, and 334,600 violent incidents were committed against Hispanic persons by offenders who were Hispanic. There were 5.3 times as many violent incidents committed by black offenders against white victims (472,570) as were committed by white offenders against black victims (89,980).


But your estimate is 10 times the Dept of Justice's estimate.  Where is you stat coming from?
There are around 4.5-5x as many white people as there are black people. if there are are 5x as many black on white crimes than white on black, that makes the average black person 25x more likely to attack a white person that Vice versa. So looks like my memory of the exact number was off, but the substance certainly wasn’t 
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@Danielle
"Why on earth would anyone waste a single minute of their time watching videos of black people act stupid? 
Uh, to make a point and prove the left's narrative false. DUH!

Anyway I don't doubt that people have a hard time with statistics, but I do suspect you weren't blocked on social sites for simply presenting the data lol.
What you suspect, think, feel or believe is immaterial. The only thing that matters is what you can prove. 

You probably said something problematic along with the numbers. It's not racist to cite the stats, but it is racist to suggest that black people have a predisposition to immoral behavior or something like that. People aren't hardwired for violence based on the amount of melanin in their skin. I'm sure you know that. 

Truth isn't racist. And truth be told, some people are predisposed to immoral behavior. They're not born immoral, but they are certainly taught to be. That's just a fact when kids are born without fathers and mothers who don't give a damn about them. 


What is your point in discussing how much crime blacks commit? Are you advocating for or against a specific policy or something? "
*sigh* To correct the prevailing narrative that has been pushed since Floyd's death. That's why. It is a false narrative that began with the shooting death of Michael Brown and was amplified 1000x when Floyd died. None of the rhetoric spewed from the left, black leaders, liberals, and democrats pan out when confronted with the truth. A truth they and everyone else likeminded or would be so easily brainwashed into believing their drivel, simply do not want to hear because it destroys their narrative. The prevailing narrative. I cannot stand idly by and say nothing. So, I make it a point to address the truth regarding the black vs white and cops narrative in order to dispel the divisive lies and race baiting. 

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@Danielle
Who says crimes against white people are "meaningless" and have no adverse effect though? I've never heard that. But the reason the situations are not remotely analogous is because black people were specifically discriminated against and the victims of racism from society at large. White people aren't being oppressed by black people, and the idea that black people are wantonly attacking white people in some sort of quiet race war is an untruthful and damaging narrative. 
Where’s the untruth? Are there not 5x as many black on white crimes as there are white on black despite whites outnumbering blacks 4 or 5 to 1? I
wonder how many other oppressed groups in history committed five times as much violent crime against their oppressors than was visited upon them and got extreme affirmative action benefits…

For what it’s worth I don’t think whites are “oppressed” or anything silly like that. And I don’t think most black people are criminals because they aren’t…but it’s clear which group has a larger violent crime problem. And it’s also true that this information is suppressed 
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@Danielle
"I feel like it's obvious that racism and bigotry are the root of many disparities in the U.S. "
That's EXACTLY what someone suffering from the victimhood mentality would say, not to mention a denialist of truth.

You need to read less Howard Zinn and a lot more Thomas Sowell. 
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@bmdrocks21
Almost every high-profile police black killing was justified and/or reasonable based on circumstances. It’s clear that these are just blatant attacks on cops, and recognizing that isn’t boot licking
Autopsy arranged by family shows GRPD officer shot Patrick Lyoya in the back of the head
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@3RU7AL
Autopsy arranged by family shows GRPD officer shot Patrick Lyoya in the back of the head
Why’d you leave out the part where the criminal grabs the officer’s taser and ignores at least five demands to drop the taser before the shooting?

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@thett3
Are there not 5x as many black on white crimes
Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90%

Overall, most homicides in the United States are intraracial, and the rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black killings are similar, both long term and in individual years.

Between 1980-2008, the U.S. Department of Justice found that 84% of white victims were killed by white offenders and 93% of Black victims were killed by Black offenders. [**]

so,

you are still significantly more likely to be murdered by a person of your same "race"
bmdrocks21
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@3RU7AL
Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90%

Overall, most homicides in the United States are intraracial, and the rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black killings are similar, both long term and in individual years.

Between 1980-2008, the U.S. Department of Justice found that 84% of white victims were killed by white offendersand 93% of Black victims were killed by Black offenders. [**]

so,

you are still significantly more likely to be murdered by a person of your same "race"

Nobody denies this. But when interracial violence does happen, it is almost always in the direction of black-on-white vs the other way around. Yet somehow the narrative is that the people committing the violence are somehow the victim
Danielle
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@bmdrocks21
More like a bloodlust. The lacerations on Zimmerman’s head and grass stains on his back proved that.
No it doesn't. I would love for you to try and explain how you think it does. How can you prove it wasn't self defense? 

There's no evidence that Trayvon Martin would have ever engaged with Zimmerman if Zimmerman hadn't approached him for no reason.


There were protests. But the story doesn’t stick around when MSM ignores it.
Two useless points. Who attended the protests - conservatives? No. And did conservative media run with the story? No. 

But the MSM certainly did considering it was all over the TV and news articles like CNN, Wash Po, NBC, CBS, The Atlantic, etc.


Maybe if he had taken fentanyl and had different parents, people would have cared.
Actually it was Black Lives Matter activists who called his death an outrage. The All Lives Matter crowd said nothing.


I detest those terms. “Pro-life” and “pro-choice” are specific abortion euphemisms, not political ideologies.
I agree, but the point remains: people who allegedly value human life so much should be highly suspect about needlessly killing people. 


They are claiming miracles where Floyd died and calling it sacred ground.
I can't defend that. Evangelicals are batshit crazy and many of them should probably be committed. 


And I can’t speak for you personally, but the presumption always seems to be against the cops before any information comes out.
To be honest I'm pretty wary of cops lol. I've been a police skeptic / critic / activist since my college days long before BLM was a thing. There are just so many examples of god awful, horrific and unjustifiable police brutality (not just killings but general abuse and rights violations) that have historically been ignored and unpunished. So while I agree that within the last ~5 years people have become way too quick to fault cops, we can't ignore that this comes after centuries of them getting away with murder - literally. And if cops really believe that their shootings and actions are justified, they should be thrilled about wearing body cams 24/7 and surveilling themselves as much as possible to prove their innocence in questionable situations. Instead, time and time again police unions are pushing to NOT wear body cams or NOT release the footage or NOT allow themselves and their whereabouts to be recorded, etc. Time and time again we see the Blue Wall of Silence protect bad behavior. And I think after so much evidence of corruption people have a right to be suspicious and have high demands. You're probably too young to remember all the abusive cop cases like Rodney King and Amadou Diallo that people are still upset about, and rightfully so. 



Almost every high-profile police black killing was justified and/or reasonable based on circumstances. It’s clear that these are just blatant attacks on cops, and recognizing that isn’t boot licking
I disagree. First off many killings and abuses don't make it to a "high profile" case status, so we don't know how many are justified or not.  But I do think many of the more famous recent killings aren't justified --  i.e. Trayvon Martin, obviously, Philando Castille, Eric Garner and yes George Floyd among others. Insisting that cops are justified in kneeling on someone's neck to the point they asphyxiate for a crime like selling loose cigarettes or whatever is batshit crazy. The penalty for that is supposed to be a small fine. Cops shouldn't be shooting people for running away from them either. Again it's amazing to me just how little people seem to care about due process when it comes to certain suspects. 
Danielle
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@TWS1405
But Danielle is a fundamentalist who likely has Ben Crump and Shaun King at the top of her liked/friends list, so she won't listen to reason.
I'm sorry, do I know you? 
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@Danielle
@thett3
" White people aren't being oppressed by black people, and the idea that black people are wantonly attacking white people in some sort of quiet race war is an untruthful and damaging narrative. "
Uneducated denialism right there. 










I can go on and on and on...



Danielle
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@TWS1405
To correct the prevailing narrative that has been pushed since Floyd's death. That's why. It is a false narrative
What narrative? 
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@TWS1405
That's EXACTLY what someone suffering from the victimhood mentality would say, not to mention a denialist of truth.

You need to read less Howard Zinn and a lot more Thomas Sowell. 
I’m not sure this is even relevant. Some pathological cultural elements came from historical or current oppression. Some didn’t. How much did or didn’t is a totally separate issue and I’m not sure debating the past too much even helps solve the problem because I’m pretty sure feeling like a victim makes people into assholes a lot of the time. In all cases the individuals responsible for crimes were human beings with agency who made the conscious choice to commit violent crimes, and absolutely nothing excuses that choice. 

This kind of gets at what I said in my original post…liberals aren’t quite *justifying* violent crime when it’s committed by black people but it’s very very obvious that they feel differently about it than they do for any other group. Kind of like how you’d feel if a retarded child attacked somebody. It’s kinda dehumanizing especially when you compared it with the extreme and almost impossible standard liberals hold whites to. To be fair to Danielle she is far from the worst I’ve seen when it comes to this as many people wouldn’t even admit that there are differences in crime rates to begin with 
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@bmdrocks21
Autopsy arranged by family shows GRPD officer shot Patrick Lyoya in the back of the head
Why’d you leave out the part where the criminal grabs the officer’s taser and ignores at least five demands to drop the taser before the shooting?
you're kidding, right ?

when you're literally sitting on someone who has their face in the dirt

you can't figure out how to fire a warning shot ?

and if the guy face down in the dirt is hold a taser

you can't figure out how to shoot them in the hand ?

or, even better

pin their arm down and twist the taser out of their hand ?
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@bmdrocks21
you are still significantly more likely to be murdered by a person of your same "race"

Nobody denies this. But when interracial violence does happen, it is almost always in the direction of black-on-white vs the other way around. Yet somehow the narrative is that the people committing the violence are somehow the victim
really ?

what's the goddamned point of telling people a person of darker skin-tone is "25 times more likely" to physically attack a person of lighter skin-tone

unless you're trying to scare them into thinking they are going to be attacked by someone with a darker skin-tone
Danielle
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@thett3
Where’s the untruth? Are there not 5x as many black on white crimes as there are white on black despite whites outnumbering blacks 4 or 5 to 1?
I honestly have no idea from the top of my head, but I'll assume it is true. 


I wonder how many other oppressed groups in history committed five times as much violent crime against their oppressors than was visited upon them and got extreme affirmative action benefits…
Black people were historically oppressed, and I'm sure the stats about them committing violent crime against whites aren't from those days -- so no they were not rewarded with affirmative action in response to their criminality like you're suggesting. And I'm curious what "extreme" affirmative action benefits you think they are privy to. I'm more of a merit-based kinda person myself, but there's no way that AA has been more problematic than general nepotism. 


For what it’s worth I don’t think whites are “oppressed” or anything silly like that. And I don’t think most black people are criminals because they aren’t…but it’s clear which group has a larger violent crime problem. And it’s also true that this information is suppressed 
It is very clear which group has a bigger crime problem, but nobody is suppressing that information. They may be suppressing some of the narratives associated with that information (i.e. that black people are inherently predisposed to crime for simply being black) because it tends to fester in racist circles with bad intentions, but I have never seen anyone deny criminality in the black community. In fact criminal justice is like the #1 thing black rights activists talk about, which first requires them to acknowledge just how many black people are affected by the system either directly or indirectly. 

When you say "black culture" promotes crime, what kind of culture are you talking about: rap music that highlights living in the ghetto? What is the origin of ghettos?  How and why did poor black people all wind up congregated in the same public housing? Why did so many wind up in jail in the 80s and 90s and how did those parent or fatherless homes impact black youth? Exploring questions like these isn't giving a pass to black criminals, nor is it vilifying white people and suggesting they should pipe down and accept being victims of black crime today. It's simply taking an honest deep dive into history and sociology for a better understanding so we can address it, the same way people want to analyze white supremacists or trumpkins and see why they are the way are. Simply writing off black people as morally inferior (as these conversations always seem to do!) isn't helpful and isn't honest, that's all I'm saying. 

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@Danielle
Let's debate my resolution then. I can create it. 
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@TWS1405
No, I do not have any reason to lie. You will need to substantiate that claim if you're going to continue insinuating I am a liar. 
Again, I gave reasons for why someone in your position might have reason to lie. You need to look at this from outside your own perspective. I don't know you or your character. Appealing to your integrity isn't helpful and doesn't change the possibility of someone in your shoes being dishonest.

So no, it's not a non sequitur fallacy.  
The *reasons* behind a ban might support guilt (if there is any) not the ban itself. 

For the record, I possess two legal degrees.
Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back there. ;-p  You might save yourself the trouble - I am unimpressed with claimed qualifications of an anonymous person on the internet. Your interactions with other people will tell me much more about you than anything else. 

I do NOT cherry pick data. I do not draw broad conclusions either. And nowhere have I made any asserted claim or stated position that "dark-skinned people are inferior in some way" either. That's a false assumption on your part. Talk about drawing subjective conclusions. 
You should probably go back and read what I said. I asked a question and provided a conditional statement. There's no need to get defensive there, big guy.
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@Danielle
@bmdrocks21
More like a bloodlust. The lacerations on Zimmerman’s head and grass stains on his back proved that.
No it doesn't. I would love for you to try and explain how you think it does. How can you prove it wasn't self defense? 

There's no evidence that Trayvon Martin would have ever engaged with Zimmerman if Zimmerman hadn't approached him for no reason.
First, Martin was on TOP of Zimmerman throwing punch after punch. Not the other way around. And Martin, after realizing he was being surveilled, snuck around and approached Zimmerman in order to sucker punch him, knocking him to the ground. 

Second, had you paid ANY attention at all to the trial and the evidence given before and during, yes, Martin wantonly engaged Zimmerman of his own choosing. He reaped what he sowed the same as Michael Brown did. 

Last but not least, Martin was no saint. Evidence was collected of his social media that included photos and texts outlining how his mom was kicking him out of the house to live with his dad because he kept skipping school. But the actual damage was his texts detailing how he was into street fighting and was looking for street cred by beating the crap out of someone. It is clear Zimmerman ended up being that someone. So yeah, there was plenty of evidence demonstrating Martin doubled back and attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around. 

"I detest those terms. “Pro-life” and “pro-choice” are specific abortion euphemisms, not political ideologies.

I agree, but the point remains: people who allegedly value human life so much should be highly suspect about needlessly killing people. 

Still a false equivalency fallacy. 

"Almost every high-profile police black killing was justified and/or reasonable based on circumstances. It’s clear that these are just blatant attacks on cops, and recognizing that isn’t boot licking

I disagree. First off many killings and abuses don't make it to a "high profile" case status, so we don't know how many are justified or not.  But I do think many of the more famous recent killings aren't justified --  i.e. Trayvon Martin, obviously, Philando Castille, Eric Garner and yes George Floyd among others. Insisting that cops are justified in kneeling on someone's neck to the point they asphyxiate for a crime like selling loose cigarettes or whatever is batshit crazy. The penalty for that is supposed to be a small fine. Cops shouldn't be shooting people for running away from them either. Again it's amazing to me just how little people seem to care about due process when it comes to certain suspects. 


"In 74 percent of fatal police shootings, police pulled the trigger only after the other person fired, brandished their gun, or attacked someone, the Post analysis points out. An additional 16 percent occurred when a person was acting in a dangerous and threatening manner, such as refusing to put down a knife."



Trayvon Martin wasn't shot and killed by law enforcement, so leave him out. 

No one but Chauvin knows how much pressure was truly applied to the base of Floyd's neck. Regardless, no one can deny the toxicology report clearly showing he had more than fentanyl in his system to kill him 2x over. It was his respiratory distress, a fact he was even screaming about in his car (heard on body cam audio) as police approached. It was NOT the knee on the neck that killed him, and I do not care what anyone on the left or the lying medical examiners and other pseudo hacks the state used to convict Chauvin. Fentanyl killed Floyd (i.e. Floyd killed Floyd). 






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@TWS1405
Last but not least, Martin was no saint. Evidence was collected of his social media that included photos and texts outlining how his mom was kicking him out of the house to live with his dad because he kept skipping school. 

LOL dear lord. You have a great evening. 

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@Danielle
What narrative?
Uh, it's common knowledge. Has been for some time. Living under a rock, or ... ?







I can go on and on... 
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@Danielle
For one, he is quite correct about that.
Secondly, I want to inquire about my debate proposal. Do you accept? 
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@Danielle
Last but not least, Martin was no saint. Evidence was collected of his social media that included photos and texts outlining how his mom was kicking him out of the house to live with his dad because he kept skipping school. 

LOL dear lord. You have a great evening. 
Cherry picking and leaving out other material facts that gives more context to the quoted statement is most unimpressive. Screams denialism. Intellectual cowardice.
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@3RU7AL
you can't figure out how to fire a warning shot ?
I think that the real issue here is that the criminal couldn’t figure out how to stop trying to use a taser against a cop. The officer even said ‘please’.

But many police departments don’t allow warning shots. And based on a life-or-death struggle where you’re trying to keep a large man on the ground, you might not be able to aim wherever you so please

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@3RU7AL
really ?

what's the goddamned point of telling people a person of darker skin-tone is "25 times more likely" to physically attack a person of lighter skin-tone

unless you're trying to scare them into thinking they are going to be attacked by someone with a darker skin-tone
It is a comment that is generally in response to a claim of black victim hood by evil white people. But it is rather startling that, whenever the two groups are within the same proximity, the violence is very one-sided.

This is the reason for white flight. And in fact, if neighborhoods were less segregated, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if more whites were murdered by other races than their own 
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@SkepticalOne
The manner in which you are asserting those reasons are purely conjectural. 

You inferred I was a layman; I disclosed my academic and professional background to quash that idea.

The ban is the end result (consequence) of their false reasoning. The former (initial) act justifies the latter. 

In any case, it's not like I can post receipts here. So, you will just have to take my word for it; that is, unless you can prove I am lying. Since you cannot, it seems futile (for you, that is) to keep harping on something you cannot even establish as an actual fact. 

Again, I have no reason to lie about it. People get kicked off platforms for all kinds of reason, most of which are purely unsubstantiated leftist bullshit. So, it isn't that much of a leap to believe that I too have been subjected to those same unsubstantiated BS reasons and left to find forums like this to discuss the very topic and supporting fact-based data used that got me kicked off those platforms. 
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@TWS1405
People get kicked off platforms for all kinds of reason, most of which are purely unsubstantiated leftist bullshit
Fact or opinion?