There is no such thing as an Atheists.

One more time I'm not talking about my perceptions I'm talking about reality. What is the difference between that and ultimate reality.

You certainly did say that reality is your perceptions.

The Ultimate Reality is specifically reality in the truest sense. It is is a more precise term.

Not just a reality, but THE reality.

And you should have no problem saying...

The Ultimate Reality exists

Thread and post please. Otherwise retract this unfounded claim.

Post 329

Oh I'm sorry that was a typo.should read I do not mean my perceptions.

Now that we've cleared that up.

The Ultimate Reality exists.

You know it does. Confess The Truth. Quit being such a wimp. Who cares what they'll say about you?

What matters is The Truth. You know this is The Truth. 

The Ultimate Reality exists.

Come on, say it.

Unless there is a difference between reality (as separate from my perceptions) and the ultimate reality I already have. If there is a difference you had better define ultimate reality better before I can say that honestly.

Btw who is they and why would I care what they think?

Atheists don't exist. I don't believe in them. There is no evidence that they exist. Sure, you can call yourself an atheist, but the simple truth is that you have rejected your Creator because of sinful pride. God will not send you to hell for not believing in Him. He'll send you there because you have spit in His face and declared that you don't want anything to do with Him. Well, guess what? He's gonna grant your wish. Count on it.

No, you know exactly what it means.

Say The Ultimate Reality exists.

Of course it does, you already know that.

You will not be saying anything that isn't obviously and unquestionably true.

@Grugore

Threats are not arguments and infinite punishment for finite transgressions is not justice. Also if there are any real god(s) and they care wether or not I believe why send you, an imperfect human who resorts to threats to make his point, instead of simply contacting me directly, or even just providing concrete evidence to support said existence?

Also also I would have to be quite insecure before someone not knowing for certain that I exist was something I thought ypubwpuld be punished for. I would hate to think that ypur god(s) were that insecure.

Either I already have or you have not adequately defined what you mean by ultimate reality. Which is it?

More weaseling from the weasel.

You can't say, "The Ultimate Reality exists"

4 words you can't say in a row. What is the problem? You admit you believe it. Why not close the whole thing off?

Instead you want to play this stupid game you always do of unnecessarily stretching out a conversation for pages on end. Why do you do this?

Because despite your claims of showing me respect, this is how you disrespect me.

Do you consider a difference if opinion a personal slight? If so you will spend a lot if ypur life being unnecessarily offended at people who mean you no wrong. If there is a difference between reality (as separate from my perceptions) then tell me what the difference is. If you are unable or unwilling to do this then you have no one to blame for my ability to accept ypur words but yourself.

More you not saying The Ultimate Reality exists.

You know what it means. 

What is the difference between reality and the ultimate reality?

Until you answer my question we are at an impasse.

I have spent months explaining this to you.

You are simply lying.

Go away.

@mopac

You have spent months giving a circular argument. Is it any wonder we both feel like we are chasing our tails?

Nothing is ultimately real!

There is only nothing!

Come on, you know this is crazy.

You mean the IPSS.

That scares little children like you, I don't know why frightened godists try to use it on intelligent adults.

I reject the claim that nothing is real. While it is possible I have no reason to think it is true and I'm not even sure how we could test the hypothesis.

Nothing is the absence of reality. I think we agree on that.

Now understand, to admit that The Ultimate Reality exists is to not say, "nothing is ultimately real!"

If there is no Ultimate Reality, nothing is ultimately real. So effectively, there is no reality.

Make sense?

Well, clearly there is some form of existence which shows that something is real, and if something is real The Ultimate Reality must by necessity exist.

You just went in a complete circle and ended up where you started without getting anywhere. Something is real therefore something is real. Ok let's accept that for a moment. so what it doesn't tell us anything about it other than that some undefined thing is. I'm ok with accepting reality I'm ok with you calling it what ever you want. It is only when you make a claim about reality that is beyond human epistemology that I object. If you stop at something is real I won't disagree. I accept that something is real until it is proved otherwise. If you claim that something is eternal or not eternal or that it is a red ball in an unopened box then I will.ask for sufficient evidence of your claim. If there is none then I reject your claim. That is the only reasonable stance given that human beings cannot know what is unobservable to them.

I am not making claims that are beyond knowing.

You are very resistant to being shown evidence. Why? Because you won't let me teach you proper terminology. You insist on using superstitious definitions. I tried doing this with you in private, and you fought me every step of the way.

And look at where we are now. 

You can't even admit that ultimate reality exists.

You can't know anything. You are in an epistemological black hole. There is no hope for you outside of a paradigm shift.

What makes you think I am without hope? I don't know isn't a scary thing to admit it is wonderful it means there is still more to learn. Hope I always have more to learn. See there is one thing I hope for. You still don't seem to understand my actual objection to your claim. Or if you do you don't seem able to acknowledge it and just keep tromping along repeating your circular arguments. What evidence are you talking about by the way? I haven't noticed you showing any evidence that proves that anything could be eternal or that proves what exists outside the physical or even that anything does. I haven't noticed you showing any evidence universe of what existed before the physical universe or indeed that anything existed before it. Something might have or it might not have. Until we have evidence we cannot know.