Abortion and how I form my abortion stance

Author: TheUnderdog

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#31
Polytheist-Witch
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@TheUnderdog
You still act like if a woman has an abortion the man is somehow on the hook. I honestly at this point can only assume you're trolling. Yes if a woman wants to raise a child with a man she better find someone that's going to stick around and do it with her. Not sure what that has to do with anything I said or why you would assume I wasn't saying that.  You're the one that keeps saying that somehow because a woman has an abortion the man is on the hook and if the woman doesn't have an abortion the man shouldn't be on the hook. You seem to think children and women are pieces of s*** and that men shouldn't have to deal with them in any way shape or form. We get it you hate them. The penises should get to make all the decisions. 
#32
zedvictor4
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@TheUnderdog
Because society is obsessed with zygotes.
Speak for yourself.


Other than briefly within this forum, usually between approximately 7am and 8am........I never give zygotes a second thought.

Though the outcome of zygotes will obviously impact upon my life later when I go and harvest my beans and courgettes. 
#33
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@TheUnderdog
That’s not fair.  If the woman wants the kid and the man doesn’t, he has to be a father against his will, but if the male wants the kid and the female doesn’t, the female is allowed to be a deadbeat parent?
You know what else isn't fair? The fact that men will never have to worry about experiencing labor or have their bodies used as a cacoon for 9 months while their organs are shoved to the side and their rib cages expanded from within.

The idea that we should ensure men and women are treated equally despite those realities is patently absurd.


#34
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@Double_R
You're referring to inherent function.

Fairness is neither here nor there.

In the context of species reproduction, fairness is a pointless concept.

The female of the species bears children and the male doesn't.

Well currently.

Maybe factory farming and selective breeding will be the long term solution to female woes and societal ills.
#35
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@zedvictor4
In the context of species reproduction, fairness is a pointless concept.
Yeah, that was my point.
#36
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@Double_R
We agree then.

Good.
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#37
TheUnderdog
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@Double_R
The fact that men will never have to worry about experiencing labor or have their bodies used as a cacoon for 9 months while their organs are shoved to the side and their rib cages expanded from within.
That's not society's fault.  That is biology's fault.  Just like how biology punishes those with one leg.  We don't let him get away with abandoning his kids despite the fact that he only has one leg.

The idea that we should ensure men and women are treated equally despite those realities is patently absurd.
I think you have lost this discussion by advocating for female supremacy.

Also, the 9 months of pain a pregnency is worth is about $25,000 (the rate surrogates charge).  We force deadbeats to sacrifice more for their kids, so it's only precedent to do the same to females.  No temporary bodily sensation is priceless in value.  I know far left people have a hard time grasping that; but it is the truth.
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#38
TheUnderdog
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@zedvictor4
I never give zygotes a second thought.
So are you fine with deadbeat dads abandoning the zygotes they chose to create?
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#39
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yes if a woman wants to raise a child with a man she better find someone that's going to stick around and do it with her.
So you advocate abstinence until marriage for females?  Because that's what that statement means unless you can figure out the difference between wanting to save sex for a man who wants a kid with you and waiting until marriage.

You seem to think children and women are pieces of s***
I don't know how you came up with THAT conclusion.

The penises should get to make all the decisions. 
The penises should get the same amount of freedom in terms of the offspring they create as the vaginas.  If Vaginas are allowed to bail a pregnency, so are the penises (with the converse, inverse, and contrapositive equally applying).
#40
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@TheUnderdog
So you advocate abstinence until marriage for females?  Because that's what that statement means unless you can figure out the difference between wanting to save sex for a man who wants a kid with you and waiting until marriage.
I didn't say save her sex I said find a man willing to stick around when she has a baby. This is what happens when virgins try to have conversations about sex.

The penises should get the same amount of freedom in terms of the offspring they create as the vaginas.  If Vaginas are allowed to bail a pregnency, so are the penises (with the converse, inverse, and contrapositive equally applying.
If a woman bails on a pregnancy the man is off the hook that makes it equal. If a woman has a child with a man they're both parents and therefore they are equal. Again you have a hatred for women and children and a preference for men you're a sick little man who doesn't even know what sex really is.
#41
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@TheUnderdog
Deadbeat Dad as you refer to him (basic gender type)...Will have copulated with deadbeat Mum (basic gender type).

In so much as consenting to unprotected sexual intercourse with Deadbeat Dad, is not particularly clever is it?

Clever Mum would be straight down the pharmacy for a morning after jobbie.

Though it's unlikely that Clever Mum would have consented to unprotected sex with Deadbeat Dad in the first place.

Or maybe the World that you inhabit is somewhat more deadbeat than my World.

Where clever women (basic gender type) cruise the streets looking for a bit of unprotected deadbeat excitement.
#42
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@TheUnderdog
That's not society's fault.  That is biology's fault.  Just like how biology punishes those with one leg.  We don't let him get away with abandoning his kids despite the fact that he only has one leg.
What are you talking about? That part was about who gets to make the final decision as to whether the fetus is carried to term. The answer: the person whose body the fetus resides in. There is nothing “unfair” about that, it’s common sense.

I think you have lost this discussion by advocating for female supremacy.
What a ridiculous statement.

The circumstances for men and women are entirely different, so they’re not going to get the same treatment. This has nothing to do with supremacy, it has to do with reasonable application of basic principals, bodily autonomy for one.

Also, the 9 months of pain a pregnency is worth is about $25,000 (the rate surrogates charge).
The fact that surrogates charge $25k for the use of their bodies is completely irrelevant. You don’t get to tell someone what the right to their own body is worth.

And you accuse me of supremacy? Wow.
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#43
TheUnderdog
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@Polytheist-Witch
I didn't say save her sex I said find a man willing to stick around when she has a baby.
What’s the difference if she is going to have sex?

If a woman bails on a pregnancy the man is off the hook that makes it equal.
If the woman wants the kid and the man doesn’t, the man should stop being a selfish little prick and sacrifice for the kid he chose to create with sex.  If the woman doesn’t want the kid and the man does, the woman should stop being a selfish little prick and sacrifice for the kid she chose to create.  If neither wants the kid, they both should stop being selfish little pricks and sacrifice for the kid they chose to create.

#GenderEquality.

Again you have a hatred for women and children and a preference for men you're a sick little man who doesn't even know what sex really is.
Strawman alert.  It is a strawman to label the 40% of Americans who want abortion banned (many of whom are females and many states have this figure above 50%) as hating females.
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#44
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@zedvictor4
Are you on drugs?  Your not making any sense. Maybe it’s British jargon that I as an American am unfamiliar with.
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#45
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@Double_R
That part was about who gets to make the final decision as to whether the fetus is carried to term. The answer: the person whose body the fetus resides in. There is nothing “unfair” about that, it’s common sense.
Who gets to make the final decision with where their money goes?  The owner of the money.  But there is a consistent exception to deadbeat parents, whether they are deadbeat dads or females that get abortions.

This has nothing to do with supremacy, it has to do with reasonable application of basic principals, bodily autonomy for one.
The right to bodily autonomy matters as much as the right to fiscal autonomy.  A consistent exception to take care of your kids is in order for both autonomys.

The fact that surrogates charge $25k for the use of their bodies is completely irrelevant. You don’t get to tell someone what the right to their own body is worth.
Fair point, but the rate surrogates charge is a good indicator of how much we expect a female to sacrifice for her kids.  Are you willing to argue that any amount of non consensual pain should be worth infinite money?  I think that would be nuts.  Pain is not priceless, even if it’s non consenting pain.
#46
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@TheUnderdog
What is it that you don't understand?

Deadbeat dad is your character.

I'm just saying that deadbeat dad is more likely to have unprotected sex with deadbeat mum, than he is with clever mum.

Simply logic.


#47
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@TheUnderdog
What’s the difference if she is going to have sex?
This is why virgins shouldn't talk about sex

Strawman alert.  It is a strawman to label the 40% of Americans who want abortion banned (many of whom are females and many states have this figure above 50%) as hating females
Yes they do hate women. Just like you they hate women having Independence. They hate women having control of their own bodies. Why do you think it's okay to pay a woman to have a baby for a couple but it's not okay to pay a woman to have sex with them. Why do you think it's okay to pay people to have sex on camera and call it porn but it's not okay for women to get paid to have sex with men on the street and call it prostitution.  And the women that hate women are self-lothers who have been told their pieces of s*** their whole life and believe it. 
#48
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@zedvictor4
Why are you obsessed with zygotes?
Do you believe that one who advocates against child sexual abuse is obsessed in children? 
#49
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yes they do hate women. Just like you they hate women having Independence.
  • Pro lifers advocate for the independence of millions of girls killed before they even have a chance to live and become women. I think your conceptions of independence are ill conceived here. Independence does not include killing individuals. 

#50
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@TheUnderdog
Who gets to make the final decision with where their money goes?  The owner of the money.  But there is a consistent exception to deadbeat parents, whether they are deadbeat dads or females that get abortions.
You are badly jumbling up this whole process.

The abortion debate is not about whether a fetus has a right to life, we generally all agree that it does. The debate is about whether the fetus’s right to life outweighs the mothers right to her own body. Pro lifers say it does, pro choicers say it doesn’t.

The financial desires of the father has no place in this debate.

If the mother decides her body can be used to carry the fetus to term, no one else has the right to come along and say that fetus doesn’t get to live.

Once that child is brought into the world, that’s when we start the conversation as to who is financially responsible for it.

The right to bodily autonomy matters as much as the right to fiscal autonomy.
That’s absurd. Stealing money out of one’s bank account is not the same thing as stealing one’s left hand.

Fair point, but the rate surrogates charge is a good indicator of how much we expect a female to sacrifice for her kids.
No, it’s not. Surrogates are those who have stepped forward to accept the lowest bid. The reason more females are not surrogates is because they are not willing to allow their bodies to be used for the low price of the market.

This is all irrelevant anyway, see my first point.

#51
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@Novice_II
Nobody's been killed. There's no birth certificates,  no death certificates, no life insurance claimed, no crime or jail time.  Nobody's named, there's no graves. Not in a large majority of abortions now if there's a problem with the fetus and the mother's aborted later due to medical concerns there might be but in general most people don't even know the sex of the clump cells that they're taking a pill to get rid of. You can be as dramatic as you want to it doesn't change the facts. 
#52
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@Novice_II
Not sure of your point.


Though I don't believe anything that cannot be proven.

And if something is proven, then one doesn't need to believe it.


We all advocate relative to our conditioned sensibilities, which is not quite the same as harping on about zygotes.

I advocate against abuse in general.

I also advocate for population control, which would include a sensible approach to recreational sex.

Unfortunately though the world is apparently awash with deadbeat dads and mums, who just can't control their propensity for gamete fusion.


To coin a phrase....It takes two to tango.

#53
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@zedvictor4
Do you think that is an answer to my question? 
#54
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@Polytheist-Witch
Perhaps we should debate some of these propositions you are making, because they seem to exhibit a level of ignorance to objective facts of biology
#55
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@Novice_II
Feel free to do whatever makes you happy
#56
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@Polytheist-Witch
Well, I was hoping that your obvious disagreement with me would predicate a debate between us on the subject. I have been hoping to set up an abortion engagement for a while now. What is your immediate reaction to such a proposition? 
#57
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@Novice_II
Yep. 

Everything you need to know is there.

A. I don't believe what I don't know.

B. True Advocacy is nothing to do with obsession.

C. And child abuse has nothing to do with someone who keeps going on about fused gametes.


Two people enjoy unprotected recreational sex and gametes fuse.

What's your beef?
#58
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@zedvictor4
I asked you:
Do you believe that one who advocates against child sexual abuse is obsessed in children? 
  • The way to answer this question is yes or no. Unfortunately, you chose neither.
A. I don't believe what I don't know.
  • This entails a logical contradiction with your previous implication that someone was obsessed with zygotes. If you can't truly express such knowledge why say this? We can concluded that your own statements  are an expression of irrationality. 
And child abuse has nothing to do with someone who keeps going on about fused gametes.
  • The advocacy against immoral modes of treating human beings appears to be not only a valid, but just cause for opposition. I asked you to defend your assertion of obsession with resect to born children. Your backpedaling displays a level of either cowardice or lack of logical consistency which of course, you have already revealed at this point. 

#59
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@Novice_II
Belief is a logical contradiction.

And as I don't believe it was not possible to say either yes or no.

If you had asked, is someone who advocates obsessed.....Then the best answer that I could have given would have been perhaps not but one never knows.

As a  hypothetical advocate could be hypothetically anything.

And your descent into abusive chaos is a shame.


So:

Can you put born children, zygotes, deadbeat dads and hypothetical advocates into some sort of logical context?
#60
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@zedvictor4
Belief is a logical contradiction.
  • This means nothing, please name the two prepositions within its context that entail a contradiction.
If you had asked, is someone who advocates obsessed.....Then the best answer that I could have given would have been perhaps not but one never knows.
In that case you would apply the same reasoning to unborn children and thus you render your previous implication of "obsession with zygotes, "logically incoherent.