Abortion and how I form my abortion stance

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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What I try to do to determine an abortion stance is, “What if a guy did something similar?”

When it comes to aborting zygotes, if hypothetically a girl got pregnant and the guy ditched her because she was pregnant with a zygote, that guy is a deadbeat and should have to pay child support.  Doing what he did should be illegal, even when it’s a zygote.

You should hold the female to the same standard.  If a guy isn’t allowed to ditch the zygote he chose to create, then neither is the female.

People may say, “It’s the female’s body whereas the deadbeat only sacrifices mere money.”.  I would argue that bodily sensations that are temporary aren’t worth infinite money.  

So how much is a pregnancy worth?  The rate that surrogates charge for a pregnancy is about $25,000.  So this would be a good estimate for the worth of a pregnancy (which takes into account all the pain and all the direct  expenses that come with pregnancy).  We force deadbeat dads to pay $135,000 for child support even if their girlfriend is pregnant with a zygote over the course of the child’s life.  I personally think this should triple to $20,000 per kid per year.  So I have to force the female to sacrifice a smaller fee in pregnancy labor for her kid.

Now if a female was raped and got pregnant, let’s equate this to a deadbeat dad getting raped and the girl gets pregnant from it.  I would not force that guy to pay child support if he was raped.  So I would let a female abort if raped.  Either that, or compensate the female with enough cash paid for by the rapist’s hard labor and ban abortion for rape victims under those circumstances (if a hypothetical female rapist paid the child support once she got pregnant, I’d be fine with that if I got compensated enough for the trauma of being raped by a female).  Whatever amount the female rape victim gets from the rapist from the mere trauma of being raped should be the same as when a male gets raped by a female if he is drunk and she rapes him when drunk.

If abortion is needed to save someone’s life (just like if child support can’t be paid in order to save the life of the deadbeat), then you can abort.  But try and have the deadbeat find another way to pay child support.  You can’t really do this with a female who is pregnant.

If the fetus is retarted, it doesn’t matter; being retarted should not be a death sentence.

Thoughts?
#2
RationalMadman
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Spelling retarded as retarted is like three layers of taboo mockery and abuse.

The term you mean is Down's syndrome, since other forms of learning disability are not detectable at the pre-birth analysis.
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#3
TheUnderdog
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@RationalMadman
Spelling retarded as retarted is like three layers of taboo mockery and abuse.
False.  It just means my spelling isn’t the best.  Kamala Harris misspelled Louisiana.  I don’t get angry at her for misspelling.  She didn’t hate Louisiana and did that to show it.

The term you mean is Down's syndrome
So be it.  Having Down syndrome is not worthy of death.
#4
CoolApe
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In the case of consensual sex, both parents should have custody of the child regardless of their liking it. The state should enforce visitation of the father because fatherless children perform far below children with fathers. Forget child support. The state should force parents to live close to each other and make them both pay for the child. If the father and mother are irresponsible, they can pay for the consequences. 

In the case of nonconsensual sex, we hope the mother will still love the child. If she is incapable of loving the child, it's likely in the child’s best interest for the mother to give the child up for adoption. Seeking restitution from rapists is not feasible in most cases. Unless it's a wealthy rapist, the rapist will never make the income to support the child while serving his sentence or getting out of jail.

Lastly, abortion should be illegal in all cases unless it protects the mother's life. The fetus is not like an organ of a female body. She is not entitled to dispose of it or treat it like her other body parts. A fetus is a person and not a organ. It is a dependent person.  However, we never kill a dependent child or person, nor do we kill a young child because it won’t have a good life. 

#5
zedvictor4
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@TheUnderdog
@CoolApe
Not some of your coolest pieces of social observation.


Louiseianna........Easy peasy.


And foetus's and other body parts are no more or less lumps of either living or dead organic matter.

It just depends upon what one chooses to read into it.


#6
Polytheist-Witch
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That's some woman hating pig b*******.
#7
zedvictor4
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pig b*******.
Isn't that a contradiction in terms.

Surely pigs s*** p******.


Just an observation.


Or do you mean b*******?
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#8
TheUnderdog
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@CoolApe
In the case of consensual sex, both parents should have custody of the child regardless of their liking it. 
Would you outlaw adoption?

Seeking restitution from rapists is not feasible in most cases.
Have the rapist do hard labor and the revenue generated helps the victim.
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#9
TheUnderdog
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@zedvictor4
Would you call yourself a lump of organic matter that is not worthy of life?  If so, your self esteem is really low.
#10
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@TheUnderdog
Worth is a concept relative to a concept etc.

The organic matter that makes up my mass is currently living and able to conceptualise.

One day it will cease to be as such.

Esteem, low or high is an emotive  soundbite relative to a concept too.


In a universal context what do you think worth and self esteem mean?

I exist and contentedly do stuff....Whereabouts is this situated on the universal  worthometer of esteem?


A zygote is a blob of organic matter composed of fused gametes and as such doesn't conceptualise and therefore doesn't consider worth or self esteem.

It is you that creates a possible future scenario within your imagination and then you get hung up on it.

Who knows how many human zygotes get pissed down the pan each day, never considered and without a thought.
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#11
TheUnderdog
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@zedvictor4
A zygote is a blob of organic matter composed of fused gametes and as such doesn't conceptualise and therefore doesn't consider worth or self esteem.
If that is really what you believe, imagine if a female told her boyfriend that she got pregnant with a zygote and her boyfriend ditched her because of it.  Everyone would prosecute the boyfriend.

Let’s say he also breaks up with her but there was no pregnancy.  That would be totally fine.

What’s the difference?  The difference is a zygote was produced.  If a zygote isn’t a human being, then it would be fine for the boyfriend to break up with the female if she is pregnant with a zygote.  But I can’t support this position because men (and women) need to be held accountable for the zygotes they chose to create.
#12
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@TheUnderdog
 But I can’t support this position because men (and women) need to be held accountable for the zygotes they chose to create
No they need to be responsible for the little humans they create. And until that thing's born it's not a human being at least not under the law. It doesn't exist till then, legally
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@TheUnderdog
Perhaps they didn't choose to make zygotes.


Zygotes get unknowingly pissed down the pan all the time.


But because you know you overthink.
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#14
TheUnderdog
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@Polytheist-Witch
Are you willing to let men ditch the females they get pregnant if the female is merely pregnant with a kid?  That seems very cruel and the guy should be punished if he does that.

Hold the female to the same standard.  If a male isn’t allowed to get out of a pregnancy, neither is a female.
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#15
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@zedvictor4
Zygotes get unknowingly pissed down the pan all the time.
Unless the woman had sex, no.  But she didn’t aim for this, so she wouldn’t be prosecuted over this.  She (and the man that fucked her) would only be prosecuted in the event of abortion.
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@TheUnderdog
Once the baby's born it's not a pregnancy dumbass, learn words.
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@Polytheist-Witch
If a female was pregnant with a zygote and the dad wanted to ditch her because of it, would you support his right to do that?  The status quo and my opinion says no; you can’t ditch the girl you got pregnant.  Do you disagree?
#18
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@TheUnderdog
Medically speaking, pissing a zygote down the pan is abortion of the zygote, and is  unknowingly a deliberate action of the host organism.

Trouble is, that ideological overthink leads to hypocrisy......Selective morality as it were.
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@TheUnderdog
There's no law requiring two people to live together and raise their child. There are laws regarding support.
#20
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@TheUnderdog
You should hold the female to the same standard.  If a guy isn’t allowed to ditch the zygote he chose to create, then neither is the female.
It has nothing to do with standards. The woman gets to choose because it's her body. If she ditches the zygote, they're both off the hook. If she doesn't, they're both responsible.
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#21
TheUnderdog
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@Double_R
The woman gets to choose because it's her body.
Bodily sensations aren’t priceless.

If she ditches the zygote, they're both off the hook. If she doesn't, they're both responsible.
That’s not fair.  If the woman wants the kid and the man doesn’t, he has to be a father against his will, but if the male wants the kid and the female doesn’t, the female is allowed to be a deadbeat parent?  That isn’t good for gender equality.  If a guy isn’t allowed to get out of a pregnancy, neither should a female.  The converse, inverse, and contrapositive also apply equally.
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#22
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@Polytheist-Witch
A deadbeat dad is forced to take care of his kids, even if one of those kids is a zygote.  Hold the female to the same standard in the name of gender equality.
#23
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@TheUnderdog
Kids aren't zygotes.

Though there is a chance that a zygote might one day become a kid.

Goat kid or human kid, you choose.

Though perhaps you would apply less concern to the cute baby goat.

Selective morality, as it were.

One is a potential "deadbeat dad" and the other is a potential curry.
#24
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@TheUnderdog
You are liar there is no law on the books requiring a man to pay support to a woman before her child is born. 
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#25
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@zedvictor4
If you don’t believe a zygote is a human being,would you be fine with a man who ditches the girl he got pregnant with a mere zygote?  It seems to me that that male should be punished with child support.  Punish the female who doesn’t want a zygote a similar way.
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#26
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@Polytheist-Witch
So if you were a pregnant female, would you be fine with your boyfriend who got you pregnant ditching you?  I wouldn’t; men and women need to be held accountable for their consensual sex.

Also, if the woman wants the kid and the man doesn’t, he has to pay child support.  If the man wants the kid and the woman doesn’t, she is allowed to abort.  That’s not fair.  A man isn’t allowed to get out of a pregnancy but a woman is.  That’s not gender equality.

If a female is allowed to get out of a pregnancy by abortion, a man is allowed the same by not taking care of the female that got pregnant and her zygote (converse, inverse, and contrapositive apply equally).

I think it is horrible that a man would ditch the girl he caused to get pregnant.  If he doesn’t want a pregnancy, he shouldn’t have sex.  Hold the woman to the same standard.
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@TheUnderdog
What I feel and what should be legal or two different things. First off if the woman keeps the pregnancy and has a child both her and the husband are on the hook for the child. You keep saying that if she has the child then she gets out of the pregnancy that makes no f****** sense. Second if she has an abortion the man is not on the hook for anything. If a man wants to have a child it's his responsibility to find a woman that's willing to carry his child and have it for him to have one. Your arguments make no sense you're just an  someone who goes on and on about how you hate the fact that women have a choice about their own bodies.
#28
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@TheUnderdog
Why are you obsessed with zygotes?
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#29
TheUnderdog
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@zedvictor4
Because society is obsessed with zygotes if the man does smash and dash.  Hold the woman to the same standard in the name of gender equality.
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@Polytheist-Witch
First off if the woman keeps the pregnancy and has a child both her and the husband are on the hook for the child. You keep saying that if she has the child then she gets out of the pregnancy that makes no f****** sense. Second if she has an abortion the man is not on the hook for anything.
That’s not fair.  If the woman wants the kid and the man doesn’t, he’s not allowed to ditch the kid he created.  But if vice versa applies the women is allowed to ditch the kid.  They both should be held to the same standard in the name of gender equality.

If a man wants to have a child it's his responsibility to find a woman that's willing to carry his child and have it for him to have one.
This would be like me saying if a woman wants a kid, she needs to find a man that won’t ditch her.

Your arguments make no sense you're just an  someone who goes on and on about how you hate the fact that women have a choice about their own bodies.
Strawman fallacy.  I think bodily autonomy in the context of a pregnancy, while valuable, is not priceless like the radical left claims it is.  I would value a pregnancy at $25,000 because it’s what surrogates charge.  We force deadbeat dads to sacrifice much more in child support bills for their kids.  It’s only precedent to force a female to sacrifice $25,000 in pregnancy labor for her kid.  Gender equality is conservative.  The left wants female supremacy.