I can actually understand why pro-lifers are pro-life.

Author: RationalMadman
RM
Abortion
hypocrisy
progressive
pro-life

Posts

Total: 28
Topic's author
#1
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
I just had a very heated argument with someone/people close to me about Roe v Wade and what the implications are and where things are going. It didn't end friendly or well.

I believe we are developing into a generation where love is just not even a factor anymore. It's not about 'sex is immoral' it's about are you really going sticking your dick in a woman or opening your legs to a man and going 'hmm I can justify killing this conceived being later based on my pleasure, my needs, my everything because I want this pleasure now, me me me me me'?

If you are actually selfish, be smart and disciplined. I can honestly tell you that I don't empathise with or understand people who genuinely can't enjoy foreplay if they have no condom around and are not on the pill, who 'need that risk' to get the thrill. I don't think it's justifiable or 'yeah yeah I get it you were drunk and high and whatever else, maybe you just love each other that much'.

The whole mentality of the left-wing who are pro-unrestricted-abortion is becoming do what you want, when you want and to hell with the consequences. It is the mentality of an impulsive teenager yet I know middle aged people who have it (at least for others) because they feel a 26 year old woman has no way to control how she acts on her urges.

I am not here to say I am anti-abortion in the first trimester or that I am totally against plan B whatsoever but please understand that's a human you just killed and living beings are not to be toyed with.

How the fuck can the left wing say that dependent homeless people, the disabled, the elderly and the poor should be cared for and nurtured at the sake of the rich and then say differently when it's a foetus and the mother has already harbored it inside her for several months? Hell, what the fuck is a woman doing for 6 months to just go 'na let's ditch it'?

I don't say I don't get it, I actually do and I am a passionately progressive guy but progress and libertinism are not the same damn thing and it is clear to me today that I am not a sheer liberal, I am a progressive and they are not the same brand of left wing.
#2
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
A woman has a right to privacy. She has dominion over her own body. Whether you like anything she does or not is irrelevant. I don't care if you think she's a whore, fat, ugly or stupid you don't get to have any say over her decision making. Even the man she's chosen to bind her life with, her husband, doesn't have a say over her body. To think a stranger should is the dumbest s*** I've ever heard. This is no different than the men who are complaining about trans women they can't stand the idea of females having any sort of power or Independence outside of what men decide they should have. Even a so-called open-minded, liberal men can't stand the idea of a man wanting to be a woman cuz women are less than men.
It's no different than when you talk about the the rape of children in the Catholic Church, it's always men raping boys no one ever talks about the girls that were raped because that's normal for a man to want to do and it's also why you get more time for drugs than you do rape.
Topic's author
#3
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
A woman has a right to privacy.
Humans have a right to privacy that is strongest when they are past the age of consent and are not mentally unstable or disabled, I agree.

This is true for women, men and genderqueers alike.

She has dominion over her own body.
So long as she isn't a threat to others (though I support intervention if one is self harming, deeply destroying themselves with drugs and/or suicidal).
Whether you like anything she does or not is irrelevant.
Actually if enough people dislike something that someone does, it is relevant but me personally to each and every woman I of course don't matter enough for that to be relevant to the legalisation of the thing they do which I don't like.
I don't care if you think she's a whore, fat, ugly or stupid you don't get to have any say over her decision making.
That is correct and incorrect. We have laws that apply to people and restrict their decision making options if they want to remain legally operating and without law-enforced repercussion when caught and prosecuted.

It is correct that it is regardless of sexual promiscuity, BMI and attractiveness.
Even the man she's chosen to bind her life with, her husband, doesn't have a say over her body.
In a healthy relationship, both should agree to some boundaries though, even if it's open and swinging. That said, I agree and she shouldn't control him severely either unless it's some bdsm dynamic where one likes being set rules and bossed around.
To think a stranger should is the dumbest s*** I've ever heard.
Should have a say over a person's body? What would justify a say then to you? Does anything justify legal intervention restricting what a murderer, rapist, thief, fraud etc can do with their body and activities done with said body?
This is no different than the men who are complaining about trans women they can't stand the idea of females having any sort of power
I am confused. Do you mean complaining about trans men? That would be a female-sex individual who has the male gender role.
or Independence outside of what men decide they should have.
I am again confused, a trans woman is a male-sex individual who became a woman.
Even a so-called open-minded, liberal men can't stand the idea of a man wanting to be a woman cuz women are less than men.
I am not sure how to interpret the context of the 'women are less than men' part of what you wrote. Do you believe liberal men think that or do you agree with that? I disagree with it.
It's no different than when you talk about the the rape of children in the Catholic Church, it's always men raping boys no one ever talks about the girls that were raped because that's normal for a man to want to do and it's also why you get more time for drugs than you do rape.
Actually nuns have raped and abused girls, the reason it's typically homosexual is that Catholic churches put authority figures in charge that are the same gender and sex as the minors they have power over.

#4
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
So long as she isn't a threat to others (though I support intervention if one is self harming, deeply destroying themselves with drugs and/or suicidal)
I don't think we should interfere with people's rights to kill themselves or ingest drugs if choose to. Who the f*** are you interfere with their life?
Topic's author
#5
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
So long as she isn't a threat to others (though I support intervention if one is self harming, deeply destroying themselves with drugs and/or suicidal)
I don't think we should interfere with people's rights to kill themselves or ingest drugs if choose to. Who the f*** are you interfere with their life?
You have a son, you have mentioned him. I need to get personal so you understand how much I genuinely care for my fellow citizen and human being.

What would you feel if he got hooked on drugs? What would you feel if the only way to save him was forceful rehabilitation?

I ask you about him not to start any serious anger or something, you clearly are very emotional about this but I approach the laws of protecting people very seriously.

Would you genuinely legalise heroin and meth?
#6
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@RationalMadman
If all people were truly pro-life then there would be no people.

Pro-lifers are selectively moral relative to specific data conditioning.


Death sustains life.

It's the way the system works. 
Topic's author
#7
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@zedvictor4
I don't understand, sorry.
#8
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@RationalMadman
Pro-life is a contradiction in terms.

Because one cannot be truly pro-life and be alive.

Because death sustains life.

All that pro-lifers are doing is narrowing down life to mean one insignificant blob of hominid mucus.


And the same people will probably be gun fanatics.
Topic's author
#9
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@zedvictor4
their stance with guns is also about protecting life but I agree they are hypocrite due to right-wing policy that neglects the poor, disabled and mentally unwell in many forms and shapes.
#10
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@RationalMadman
Yep.

Protecting life by taking life....That's the baloney for sure.

And let's be honest...Most "right wing" baloney in the U.S. is underwritten by biblical bullshit....Or a selfish and hypocritical version thereof.

But hey...It makes for entertaining discussion.


Need an abortion....Gin and knitting needles was the old wives preferred method.
Topic's author
#11
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@zedvictor4
Protecting life by taking life....That's the baloney for sure.
the words of a man whose privilege of peace is protected by cops, military and Mi5/Mi6 doing it for him.
Topic's author
#12
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@zedvictor4
And let's be honest...Most "right wing" baloney in the U.S. is underwritten by biblical bullshit....Or a selfish and hypocritical version thereof.
Focus less on the ad hominem, more on the actual specifics of their hypocrisy.
#13
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@RationalMadman
No one in particular singled out.


Hypocrisy is a prerequisite of survival.

And inevitably we're talking two general schools of thought.

Right, left, liberal, conservative.

And we're currently discussing the right to kill, right not to kill school of thought.

The school of thought that we all subscribe to, for all sorts of contradictory reasons.




#14
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
Abortion should be legal, but discouraged. Society runs wild when you just casually dispense unfinished fetuses, and population drops when you just say you can freely do it without any discouragement. The reality is that there is discouragement.

I consider myself both pro-life and pro-choice, but not anti-abortion. Abortion is discouraged in most cases as there are possibly better choices, but the choice should not be eliminated. 
#15
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Fuck you. You don't know me, you know nothing about me and using my son ain't going to make me feel bad.  I would legalize all drugs. And as long as a person hasn't been talked into it and they chose to do it themself I have no problem with suicide. And grown adults who are with it enough to make decisions should be allowed to be prostitutes and sell their body if they want to.  Fuck you.
#16
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,175
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Sooo an emotional screaming and swearing rant  makes your argument superior to all others? Now I see how it works.
#17
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@sadolite
Highlight where I said that or piss off.
#18
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@RationalMadman
We live in a world where we treat drunk drivers worse than irresponsible abortionists; and a cat has more rights to life than a 15 week old human fetus.
#19
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,175
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Fuck you. You don't know me, you know nothing about me and using my son ain't going to make me feel bad.  I would legalize all drugs. And as long as a person hasn't been talked into it and they chose to do it themself I have no problem with suicide. And grown adults who are with it enough to make decisions should be allowed to be prostitutes and sell their body if they want to.  Fuck you.
#20
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@sadolite
So you'll be pissing off then.
#21
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,175
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Nope, A critical thinking person would call that an emotion filled rant as you begin and end with the words "fuck you" That pretty much means only your view points and opinions  matter. It's an opinion filled emotional rant. Saying "fuck you" twice implies screaming.
#22
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@sadolite
Not my fault you're little ears can't handle big grown-up words. And you're a liar so there you go.
#23
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
@Poly

Big grown up words like....... Piss and Fuck.
#24
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,175
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
What did I lie about?  I didn't comment on anything you said but rather pointed out your opinionated screaming rant as a whole. Trying to marginalize me with insults doesn't change or prove anything but rather reinforces what I said. 
Topic's author
#25
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
Fuck you. You don't know me, you know nothing about me and using my son ain't going to make me feel bad.  I would legalize all drugs. And as long as a person hasn't been talked into it and they chose to do it themself I have no problem with suicide. And grown adults who are with it enough to make decisions should be allowed to be prostitutes and sell their body if they want to.  Fuck you.
Alright, so if your son or someone close to you ends up in such a horrible scenario, I hope you will thank the government for not giving a fuck, well the hypothetical government that has enabled severe addiction and self-harm with no interventions permitted unless the person themselves begs for it.

I feel that is a disgusting outlook and understand that you and I are very different in our core morals. Class A drugs being legalised is almost a joke stance to me.
Topic's author
#26
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Drunk drivers need help but so do sex addicts and/or people who fuck while high, and drunk and forget to use protection.
#27
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
The fact that you don't like something means you think the government should be able to go in and arrest or kill people for it is your malfunction. And I'm sorry but at this point you've talked about my kids enough that I don't need to speak to you ever again. 
Topic's author
#28
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
Every dead fetus is the child if the female killing them and the male sperm c9btributor as well.

I am not sexist, some rich men pay women to abort their conceived child if it was an affair.

I think about victims of drug addictions that ruin their body, financial plus mental wellbeing and whole life and ask myself what if that were my loved one or friend. What I ask you is why you do not ask yourself the same question.