Small government

Author: Benjamin

Posts

Total: 65
#31
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
There are no options to "work elsewhere" in states with no right to work laws.
what are you talking about ?

there is no state in modern america where you are not allowed to quit and move to another state
#32
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Sure they are, Worker monopolies support industry monopolies, They go hand in hand.
imagine a time before labor unions

would you prefer to live in that time ?

imagine a place where there are no labor unions

would you prefer to live in that place ?
#33
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
there is no state in modern america where you are not allowed to quit and move to another state
You cannot work within that state as an independent worker without the protection of right to work laws. If enforced labor monopolies become federal policy, then you will have to leave the country to avoid government regulated slave labor restricting how an independent worker would normally choose to work in a free society.
#34
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
If enforced labor monopolies become federal policy,
hypothetically speaking
#35
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
America grew and prospered without Labor monopolies. Labor monopolies were at the peak during the Jimmy Hoffa era, but lost favor as the crime families took over and the public reacted. Today, Labor Monopolies are making a roaring comeback with legitimate nepotism in today's bloated government.

What is funny is noting the trend of the many people who believe the propaganda that Labor Monopolies are essential in a free society. That's just a real knee-slapper.
#36
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
government regulated slave labor restricting how an independent worker
not exactly "slave labor"

perhaps you might be kind enough to share your personally preferred definition of "slave" so we can figure out exactly where the "problem" lies
#37
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
America grew and prospered without Labor monopolies.
are you at all familiar with the history of the american railroad industry ?
#38
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
A slave is not allowed to work as an independent worker.
#39
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
A slave is not allowed to work as an independent worker.
what the hell do you mean by "independent worker"
#40
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
are you at all familiar with the history of the american railroad industry ?
Are you at all familiar with the inability to make such a railroad today in California with government enforced Labor Monopolies?

#41
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Are you at all familiar with the inability to make such a railroad today in California with government enforced Labor Monopolies?
are you really advocating for returning to the labor policy of the 1860s ?
#42
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I'm simply pointing out the failures of the country to "progress" under the burden of a restrictive society run by a bloated government that fails in the most basic tasks because it is burdened with way too many menial tasks. 

#43
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
I'm simply pointing out the failures of the country to "progress" under the burden of a restrictive society run by a bloated government that fails in the most basic tasks because it is burdened with way too many menial tasks. 
trying to compare "government" with "business" is beyond ludicrous 

also, "business" is often MORE inefficient and almost always less reliable than "government"

i'm sure we agree that "government" is currently "broken" and should be "fixed"

and the likely consequence of that "fix" would result in "smaller government"

but it is critical to remember

that "smaller government" is not THE GOAL

a "better" (more fair, less corrupt) "government" is the goal

more clearly defining the scope and role of "government" is critical to achieving this goal
#44
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10

That "smaller government" is not THE GOAL

a "better" (more fair, less corrupt) "government" is the goal

Corruption is always proportional to size. The only way to reduce corruption to the lowest  acceptable level is to revert the menial tasks the government currently manages back into the hands of individuals.

There is no sound reason in a fair and free society for an independent worker to be prohibited from building an affordable house in ANY state in America.
#45
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
There is no sound reason in a fair and free society for an independent worker to be prohibited from building an affordable house in ANY state in America.
there are building regulations in every single state
#46
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Corruption is always proportional to size.
nope

a city can easily be more corrupt than a county

a county can easily be more corrupt than a state
#47
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
there are building regulations in every single state

Thank you for proving my point.
#48
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
there are building regulations in every single state
Thank you for proving my point.
therefore, you are not "free" to construct any house you want

you are unable to be an "independent worker" in the field of law

does this make all lawyers "slaves" in your personal opinion ?

you are unable to be an "independent worker" in the field of medicine

does this make all doctors "slaves" in your personal opinion ?
#49
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
"business" is often MORE inefficient and almost always less reliable than "government"
If that was the case, Amazon would not exist in a free and fair society. Or private schools.
#50
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
If that was the case, Amazon would not exist in a free and fair society. Or private schools.
you're cherry-picking
#51
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
you're cherry-picking
If that was the case, you would have a coherent response as to why Amazon and private schools exist in a free and fair society.
#52
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
If that was the case, you would have a coherent response as to why theranos and enron and blockbuster and wework and delorean and lehman brothers exist(ed) in a free and fair society.

#53
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
If that was the case, you would have a coherent response as to why theranos and enron and blockbuster and wework and delorean and lehman brothers
If that was the case, you would have a coherent response why they all failed in a span of a few years while Amazon and public schools persist for Decades.

Although admittedly, Blockbuster lasted a bit longer because there were no alternatives at the time.
Blockbuster, officially Blockbuster LLC and formerly known as Blockbuster Video, was an American-based provider of home movie and video game rental services. Services were offered primarily at video rental shops, but later alternatives included DVD-by-mail, streaming, video on demand, and cinema theater. Previously operated by Blockbuster Entertainment, Inc., the company expanded internationally throughout the 1990s. At its peak in 2004, Blockbuster consisted of 9,094 stores and employed approximately 84,300 people: 58,500 in the United States and 25,800 in other countries.

Poor leadership and the impact of the Great Recession (which was caused by the government subsidizing sub-prime mortgages) were major factors leading to Blockbuster's decline, as was the growing competition from Netflix's mail-order service, video on demand, and Redbox automated kiosks. Significant loss of revenue occurred during the late 2000s, and the company filed for bankruptcy protection in 2010

We have plenty of alternatives to any government service just like we eventually had alternatives to Blockbuster. But the main difference is that with the exception of a select allowance of private schools and postal services like UPS and Amazon, competition for government services are largely prohibited in America because no Government program is allowed to go bankrupt due to incompetence under the current oligarchs. Would you like a list?

I guarantee it will be a LOT longer than your Enron list and with far more lasting harm to society. (Just off the top of my head the Dept. of Energy has cause more power outages directly than the entire history of Enron.)

The mere fact that you have zero examples of Government agencies disbanding more than proves my point, as only a truly uneducated man would infer that no government dissolutions could only mean perfect competency of every government agency rather than the obvious perpetual subsidization of failing industries on a grand scale off the backs of hard working tax-payers.

#54
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
no Government program is allowed to go bankrupt
because "government" is not supposed to "make a profit"
#55
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
The mere fact that you have zero examples of Government agencies disbanding more than proves my point, as only a truly uneducated man would infer that no government dissolutions could only mean perfect competency of every government agency rather than the obvious perpetual subsidization of failing industries on a grand scale off the backs of hard working tax-payers.
i never made any claims of "perfect competency of every government agency"
#56
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
because "government" is not supposed to "make a profit"
You are right about that. Many Government programs don't profit society at all. Would you like a list?

What would be your top pick of a government agency you would like to see dissolved?
#57
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
What would be your top pick of a government agency you would like to see dissolved?
the federal supreme court
#58
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Why stop there? Everything in DC can go. Pentagon can stay though.
#59
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Why stop there? Everything in DC can go. Pentagon can stay though.
would you describe yourself as an anarchist ?
#60
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Minarchist.