Would you rather
- Commit 30 1st trimester abortions
- Kill 1 toddler.
An abortion conundrum
Posts
Total:
34
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@Bones
If all 30 of those women have decided that they do not wish for their body to be used to carry the pregnancy to terms, I’d rather perform 30 1st trimester abortions.
The first one. Because I won't be labeled a murderer legally.
I would rather 30 southern white conservatives throw eggs at my house all day than the police coming to seize me for interrogation and prison, plus 30 southern white conservatives throwing eggs at the police car while I am at it.
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@Bones
But if you look it another way, there is only the second one I can do. I am not a woman, so I can't commit abortions. The closest I can be to that is to be a clinic doctor, but even that is aiding, not committing.
I would rather do something I would not want to do, rather than something I can't do.
Or we could come up with real life scenarios that real people might face. Like a woman with two kids who is at sixteen weeks and can't get treatment for her brain blood clots cause treatment will hurt her unborn. Cause the fetus is more important than her living kids having mom.
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@Bones
Doesn't God do both through miscarriages and pediatric cancer?
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@Bones
I do enjoy these types of thought experiments. A paragraph from my last abortion debate:
As a hypothetical, imagine a fire in a fertility clinic with a daycare. You can save the lives of toddlers, or a thousand fertilized eggs. From a strictly human standard of morality, you should let suffer the children… From a personhood standard, you may regret the loss, but save the toddlers… I would further argue that were it a future potential person (frozen embryo), or a trapped cat, the cat is closer to being a person even while lacking human DNA, so it should be prioritized.
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@Bones
If all of the abortions would inevitably be performed by someone else in the event that I refused, then the abortions. At least the toddler could be saved.
But if the abortions wouldn't happen in the event that I refused, then the toddler. It's one life versus 30 lives.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that people that are pro-life don’t support exceptions for the mother’s life being in danger.
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@ILikePie5
Because they don't
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@Polytheist-Witch
Because they don't
That’s just demonstrably false lol
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@Bones
Funny how you chose the word commit.
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@ILikePie5
The case that I specifically mentioned is a real case that woman is dealing with that right now and the red state that she's in won't let her abort. They won't let her do any treatments. And I've sat and watched politicians ask why you would allow an abortion for an etopic pregnancy, why would you allow an abortion for a rape, why would you allow an abortion for someone that's 14 15 16 and been molested by a relative. The majority of pro-lifers do not want any exception they believe abortion is immoral and any and all times. I've never met anyone pro-life that believes there should be any reason for an exemption. Not a single one.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The case that I specifically mentioned is a real case that woman is dealing with that right now and the red state that she's in won't let her abort. They won't let her do any treatments. And I've sat and watched politicians ask why you would allow an abortion for an etopic pregnancy, why would you allow an abortion for a rape, why would you allow an abortion for someone that's 14 15 16 and been molested by a relative. The majority of pro-lifers do not want any exception they believe abortion is immoral and any and all times. I've never met anyone pro-life that believes there should be any reason for an exemption. Not a single one.
What state is this?
And the safety of the mother’s life has always been an exception. Literally always. You probably have never asked them directly the question about the mother’s life being at risk would be an exception. When everyone thinks of exceptions, they think of rape and incest, not mothers life.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Well, I'm a pro-lifer who supports an exception when the mother's life is in danger. I know a lot of other pro-lifers, but I don't know any who don't support that exception. Yes, there are a few out there, and some of them make it into the news, but they are a small minority of pro-lifers.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@ILikePie5
According to this poll, 80% of Republicans, 84% of Independents, 93% of Democrats, and 87% of all Americans support abortion when the mother's life is in danger.
Note: This poll actually says mother's health, not life. Had they asked specifically about the mother's life, they probably would have gained a few percentage points.
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@SirAnonymous
I'm pro-life.
But I'm also pro-death.
Because death sustains life.
Though humans have learned how to be emotional.
And some humans are more emotional than others.
To some it's a cuddly wuddly baby in the making.
To others it's just a blob of organic tissue....The sort that regularly gets pissed down the big white telephone.
Though when it comes to unwanted conception, perhaps the exponents should apply a bit more logic.
The onus is on both parties of course, though post coitally there's not a huge amount a bloke can do, other than drive her down to the pharmacy to discuss post coital contraception.
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@zedvictor4
How many people can fit in heaven? - Only 144,000 as the bible states. The Bible states that the majority of mankind will not go to heaven.
With 8 billion people on the planet now when there was only 2 originally, it would seem like we need a lot more abortions.
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@FLRW
Well, what we need a return of is, unmedically and un-surgically prolonged life.
The good old days of infant mortality, and heart attacks by the time you reached 65, that's if you managed to get to 65.
I remember reading somewhere that in the good old days not so long ago, making it to 35 was something of an achievement.
Some might suggest that it's just as unethical to keep every old duffer going into their 90's, as it is to abort a foetus or two.
But as I always say, ethicality and morality are very variable concepts.
So unless GODOT put in a heaven extension or two since he started it a few thousand years ago, I'm guessing that it filled up pretty quickly then.
Though I'm also guessing that heaven has various suburbs, the Christian one being a very selective gated community of 144000. Surrounded by sprawling Muslim, Hindu, Judaic etc shanty towns.
Best place to be would be up in the hills humming with the Buddhists and developing one's Kung-Fu skills.
So how big is a soul?
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@ILikePie5
And the safety of the mother’s life has always been an exception.
the "risk to a mother's life" is a sliding scale
the pro-life team wants to push that line all the way up to "eminent death"
for example
should a woman be forced to delay chemotherapy because of a pregnancy ?
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@FLRW
How many people can fit in heaven? - Only 144,000 as the bible states.
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@Bones
Commit 30 1st trimester abortions Kill 1 toddler.
First, why is this in the Science and Nature section? Second, in answer to your question, neither. Third, if I were being coerced, the "threat" would have to kill me.
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@Barney
I think, for fire in the fertility clinic and nursery, regardless of your position on abortion you should take whatever action that will minimize suffering. In this case, the frozen embryos are incapable of suffering but the cat and children are - and that’s who should be saved.
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@Barney
@Zenson1
As a hypothetical:
What if, when you were rescuing the cat, you saw Vladimir Putin tied to a chair?
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@zedvictor4
That's very easy. You take the cat and throw gasoline on the fire.
Not knowing what first trimester means might ummm " moraly excuse "
Alotttt of people don't fully understand the " stages "
With "The hospital is on fire scenario " . That asks would you grab the canister of 1000 Zygots or embryos. I forget how it went but.
Embryos are football jerseys. I am not rescuingfooty jerseys.
What i am saying is .
Is it not a moral question if you don't have a clue what, 1st tri , 3rd tri, Zygots and embryos and Other awkward names they call.
Like
Leaving 50 zygots aint as bad as 14 embryos or two trimesters
See i dont even know what i am saying now.
It isn't clean cut.
They shoukd call them" 1 week babies" . " 2 week babies "
Cooking time.
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@zedvictor4
Ensuring the destruction of evil, trumps preventing a smaller amount of suffering than the amount said evil will inflict if it escapes: so kill the bastard, even if it makes you unable to save the cat (or even the children).
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@Barney
Good news is, that hypothetically you did manage to save the cat and the kids.
Though charred human remains were found.
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@FLRW
How many people can fit in heaven? - Only 144,000 as the bible states. The Bible states that the majority of mankind will not go to heaven.With 8 billion people on the planet now when there was only 2 originally, it would seem like we need a lot more abortions.
Would would have belived the bible would come to humanities rescue. Great find.