bruce/caitlyn jenner is a trans woman. he is biologically male but she identifies her gender as female. if caitlyn is attracted to females, i think it would be fair for him to call himself either homosexual or heterosexual. this is because by the standard of gender, he's a lesbian. but, by the standard of biological sex, he's a heterosexual. both are fair game for self declared labels.
transgenders attracted to opposite biological sex- either homo or heterosexual is a fair label
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@n8nrgim
Or you could just label it as It.
Or let's just think up a new word.
Hmmmmmmmm:
How about.
Itcantmakeitsmindupbinarynongenderspecifictypethingsexual.
What's your word?
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@n8nrgim
No, only homosexual or bi/panworks.
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@n8nrgim
in what crazy-upside-down-world does anyone (except of course those close personal friends) at all need to know anyone else's gender and or personal proclivities, much less feel compelled to dictate their own personal choice of naming convention ?
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@3RU7AL
there's nothing wrong with having a personal opinion on these conventions. it's not like i said caitlyn jenner had to identify one way or the other or anything like that.
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@n8nrgim
there's nothing wrong with having a personal opinion on these conventions. it's not like i said caitlyn jenner had to identify one way or the other or anything like that.
i mean, sure, you CAN have a personal opinion (about anything at all really), but this whole conversation has become political
and it makes no sense
each person gets to decide what they call themselves,
married or not married, with kids or no kids, gay or straight or other or none, proud heritage or orphan
it lends your arguments and opinions no additional credibility and or discredit
this really is information that should be shared on a strictly "need to know" basis
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@3RU7AL
how is this an issue that cannot be discussed? that doesn't even make sense. i dont think trans people or the various races of the world would expect that the topic of identify politics can't be discussed.
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@n8nrgim
how is this an issue that cannot be discussed? that doesn't even make sense. i dont think trans people or the various races of the world would expect that the topic of identify politics can't be discussed.
i'm not suggesting it can't be discussed
i'm simply trying to highlight that the ONLY OPINION that truly matters is the OPINION of the individual in question
the right to self-definition is fundamental
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@3RU7AL
Strictly need to know.
I don't think that Jenner is particularly media shy.
If one doesn't want people to know and consequently express opinions....Then one should keep ones gob shut.
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@n8nrgim
Caitlyn Jenner is a trans female lesbian yes.
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@3RU7AL
@zedvictor4
I don't think that Jenner is particularly media shy.If one doesn't want people to know and consequently express opinions....Then one should keep one's gob shut.
I would typically agree with @3RU7AL, but she has put herself out there in an effort to normalize transgenderism. This will necessarily involve other people's opinions.
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@zedvictor4
I don't think that Jenner is particularly media shy.If one doesn't want people to know and consequently express opinions....Then one should keep ones gob shut.
just because one person decides to "go public" about how they "self-identify" doesn't mean the entire world is "fair-game"
and
it does nothing to change the fact that it is still their own choice and their own choice alone what they choose to call themselves
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@SkepticalOne
Normalize transgenderism.
You said it.
Freudian slip perhaps?
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@zedvictor4
I don't see the issue.
Normalize: to allow or encourage (something considered extreme or taboo) to become viewed as normal.
Perhaps more explanation will make plain my alleged mistake.
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@SkepticalOne
So why do you suggest, that transgenderism requires normalizing?
Surely transgenderism is either normal or it isn't.
I would suggest that previously taboo issues, become socially acceptable.
Which does not necessarily imply any real sense of normality to the issue in question.
So some things were once commonplace social activities, such as wife beating, witch burning, and sex with people under the age of sixteen.
So have they been abnormalized or are they just no longer socially acceptable.
Though this depends upon where one lives I suppose. Which would imply that such activities are not necessarily abnormal.
Nonetheless my overall perspective on social development, leads me to conclude that all that evolves is normal.
Though that does not negate the Freudian slip, whereby to suggest that something requires normalization, also implies that that something was previously abnormal.
But Hey...Chop you dick of Bruce....You won't be the first and you won't be the last......And I honestly, care not......Because all that evolves is normal.
Wow......Opens up a whole big can of other worms though.
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@zedvictor4
I said what I meant to say. Clearly transgenderism has a way to go before it isn't considered extreme or taboo. It (and trans folks) is a common target of angst, bigotry, and violence.
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@SkepticalOne
It's also a common vehicle for those who seek to be socially correct in the eyes of a certain liberal haut monde.
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@zedvictor4
It's also a common vehicle for those who seek to be socially correct in the eyes of a certain conservative haut monde.
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@zedvictor4
Ahh, because someone somewhere has virtue signaled, every person concerned with the fate of a particular group of people is insincere?
That's pretty weak.
For what it is worth, I have trans family. I am only concerned with his ability to have a normal life and keeping people who don't understand from meddling in that. Unlike many, my interest isn't political. I may be an imperfect advocate for LGBTQ+, but I am sincere.
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@SkepticalOne
@3RU7AL
And for a moderate person such as I, who respects the freedom of the individual.
I also expect to be allowed the freedom to fully question all aspects of what is a fairly new social and physiological phenomena.
Though that is not to say, that developmental anomalies have never occurred prior to the current trend.
Nonetheless there is no definitive explanation for the current trend, so it must be expected that questions will be raised especially within a discussion forum.
After all this is not a justification and sympathy site, is it?
Or perhaps unquestioning acceptance, is what some people expect.
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@zedvictor4
You brought your written sneer to me, and now you're trying to pretend you were asking about 'new social and physiological phenomena'? My responses have been driven by your questions about my messaging and sincerity. I have yet to see a genuine non-mocking question from you in this thread regarding transgenderism. I know it can seem very unfair when people properly respond to the vibe you're putting out.
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@zedvictor4
Nonetheless there is no definitive explanation for the current trend, so it must be expected that questions will be raised especially within a discussion forum.
androgyny and gender swapping is not a new idea
there are many ancient writings that describe such things
these people have by all accounts always been present in society in small percentages
even in places and times where they would very likely be killed if they were discovered
what kind of "definitive explanation for the current trend" are you looking for ?
these people no longer wish to "hide in the shadows" and somehow this has become "controversial"
even though it really isn't anyone's business
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@SkepticalOne
A Zedku for SkepticalOne.
I'm too thick skinned for,
A plea to the emotions.
Which cuts no mustard.
Nor does an attempt at mockery.
A place for tit for tat jibing
And tit for tat jibing in it's place.
But explanations are still a bit thin on the ground,
And you have seemingly run out of them.
So much so that,
I am still not convinced,
That you have convinced me of anything.
Other than,
Everything that evolves is normal.
So no normalization required.
All options are available.
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@3RU7AL
I'm not necessarily looking for anything......Just questioning, a la debate forum.
Current trends are well established, in liberalised societies, and I always agree that physiological anomalies will inevitably occur.
So who wears the boxers or the knickers, is only relative to the old concept of gender specific clothing. And for sure, people have been ignoring such ideas for years.
And who licks or sucks or fucks what, is only relative to the developed enjoyment of recreational sex. And for sure, people have been doing what ever floats their boat for years and years.
But explain why extreme mutilation and medical disfigurement is a normal healthy necessity, rather than a psychologically inspired social trend.
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@zedvictor4
But explain why extreme mutilation and medical disfigurement is a normal healthy necessity [CITATION PLEEZ], rather than a psychologically inspired social trend.
body modification is nothing new
According to Verified Market Research, the Global Cosmetic Surgery Market size was valued at USD 49.14 Billion in 2020
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@3RU7AL
For sure, in terms of species development, decorative and cosmetic body modification is nothing new, and modern surgical and medical trends can be regarded as an evolutionary continuation I suppose....But this does suggest that we are only promoting a conceptual necessity rather than an inherent physiological necessity.
And anyway, not quite the same as a face full of tattoos and a ring through ones dick.
In short.......We think, we want and we can.
And also for sure......Because we can, we are happy to pay someone big bucks for it......Which is not really relative to the issue though.
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@zedvictor4
In short.......We think, we want and we can.
i fail to detect "the problem"
perhaps you could try to identify the core issue
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@3RU7AL
The core issue for me is understanding why.
And it cannot be definitively shown why or when such data becomes established within the mind of the Transgender person.
So until such time as when it can be proven to be an inherent malfunction, we can also consider that it may actually be an acquired syndrome.