Socialism correlates with higher living standards

Author: Benjamin

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#91
secularmerlin
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@oromagi
CAPITALISM can only exist in those states where the decisions about trade and industry are mostly protected from government
Capitalism becomes impossible without government to enforcement the law. Without the implied threat of police violence do you think people would simply move put of their houses and become homeless? Do you think they would starve rather than take the food (an alarming amount of which is being thrown away anyway) from stores?

Capitalism requires big government to function. In general capitalists are only opposed to government regulation that limits their ability to exploit their workers or misinform their customers. They are fine and dandy with legislation that offers large buisness tax incentives or subsidies or that sheild corporations from the legal consequences of their questionable buisness practices. 
#92
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@secularmerlin
Capitalism becomes impossible without government to enforcement the law
This is also true without refuting my point.
#93
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@oromagi
Capitalism is pro government but pro a certain kind of government. The kind, not to put to fine a point on it, which does not force them to adopt ethical buisness practices or to take responsibility for the health amd safety of its workers but which does shelter corperations and the financial officers of corperations from financial loss and legal consequences. 
#94
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@secularmerlin
Capitalism is pro government but pro a certain kind of government. The kind, not to put to fine a point on it, which does not force them to adopt ethical buisness practices or to take responsibility for the health amd safety of its workers but which does shelter corperations and the financial officers of corperations from financial loss and legal consequences. 
exactly

15 days later

Topic's author
#95
Benjamin
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@secularmerlin
@3RU7AL
When people starve during a temporary famine in a poor, wartorn and underdevelop country that happens to be socialist, "big government" is at fault. 

When people starve, get bancrupted for no reason, loose their jobs, become homeless, lack medical care and get wrongfully shot or incarcerated for years
but the country is capitalist...then the story is different. There is suposedly a "free market", an oh so important independence from government.

As you said in other words, the job of the police is to protect the unfair society we live in rather than the people living in it. The hungry, the unemployed, the homeless, the poor, these are all defined by what the GOVERNMENT decides is ok to take from people. The law grants the owner class the right to throw people out of their homes, raise prices unreasonably, fire people, lower wages and so forth. Sure, blame "market forces", "individual responsiblity" or "bad apples", that doesn't take away from the fact that the police will show up and remove people from their homes, lock them up or shoot them. The basis of capitalism as an economic system is big government, the big brother that will crush you unless you follow the rules of an unfair game.


Saying that government enforcing inequality is SMALL, while government enforcing equality is BIG, is as nonsensical as conservative arguments get.
#96
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@Benjamin
that doesn't take away from the fact that the police will show up and remove people from their homes, lock them up or shoot them.
great point
#97
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@3RU7AL
@Benjamin
Saying that government enforcing inequality is SMALL, while government enforcing equality is BIG, is as nonsensical as conservative arguments get.
1920's great depression and government/taxes pulled corporate out of muck in 30's ---See Rosevelts speech bottom of this page---

1970's - 80's USA Savings & Loan Fraud --debacle--- and  USA government/taxes pulled corporate out of the muck
  • Savings and loan crisis failure of 1,043 out of the 3,234 S&Ls from 1986 to 1995 in the U.S.

    • ... "The "Wild West" attitude among some S&Ls led to outright fraud among insiders. One common fraud saw two partners conspire with an appraiser to buy land using S&L loans and flip it to extract huge profits. Partner 1 would buy a parcel at its appraised market value. The duo would then conspire with an appraiser to have it reappraised at a far higher price. The parcel would then be sold to Partner 2 using a loan from an S&L, which was then defaulted on. Both partners and the appraiser would share the profits. Some S&Ls knew of—and allowed—such fraudulent transactions to happen. "....

    2008 governemt/taxes pulled corp. out of the muck ----to big to fail motto---

    ..." The financial crisis of 2008, or Global Financial Crisis, was a severe worldwide economic crisis that occurred in the early 21st century. It was the most serious financial crisis since the Great Depression (1929). Predatory lending targeting low-income homebuyers,[1] excessive risk-taking by global financial institutions,[2] and the bursting of the United States housing bubble culminated in a "perfect storm." Mortgage-backed securities (MBS) tied to American real estate, as well as a vast web of derivatives linked to those MBS, collapsed in value. Financial institutions worldwide suffered severe damage,[3] reaching a climax with the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers on September 15, 2008, and a subsequent international banking crisis.[4] "...

    2020 the great lockdown world wide CoVid-2 and governent attempts to pull us out of viral causing muck.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Theodore Roosevelts ' Muck Rake ' speech. 1906

    ..." The liar is no whit better than the thief, and if his mendacity takes the form of slander he may be worse than most thieves. It puts a premium upon knavery untruthfully to attack an honest man, or even with hysterical exaggeration to assail a bad man with untruth.
    An epidemic of indiscriminate assault upon character does no good, but very great harm. The soul of every scoundrel is gladdened whenever an honest man is assailed, or even when a scoundrel is untruthfully assailed.......................

    .....................Now, it is easy to twist out of shape what I have just said, easy to affect to misunderstand it, and if it is slurred over in repetition not difficult really to misunderstand it.

    At the risk of repetition let me say again that my plea is not for immunity to, but for the most unsparing exposure of, the politician who betrays his trust, of the big business man who makes or spends his fortune in illegitimate or corrupt ways. There should be a resolute effort to hunt every such man out of the position he has disgraced. Expose the crime, and hunt down the criminal; but remember that even in the case of crime, if it is attacked in sensational, lurid, and untruthful fashion, the attack may do more damage to the public mind than the crime itself. "...
    #98
    sadolite
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    Comparing any socialist country with a capitalist countrylike the  United States that relies on the United States to defend them militarily is absurd.  All of those countries would not be able to afford all those socialist entitlements if they had to spend money to defend their country by themselves. Most would not even exist and would have long ago been invaded and taken over by countries like Iran, Iraq, Pakistan China and Russia.

    Oh ya and nearly all of the countries that rely on the US don't even pay the pittance of 2% or 3% of their GDP for their protect.  Bunch a dead beat nations.

    46 days later

    #99
    Public-Choice
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    In 1981 Russians were standing in line for bread, while Americans were getting obese from the food they were eating.

    In 1981 Russians were living in dilapidated apartments with toxic water while Americans were living in homes with clean water supply.

    In 1981 Russians were waiting in long lines to receive basic hospital care while Americans simply went to the nearest hospital and got whatever care they needed.

    I have no idea what the sources told the person who did the study, but by nearly any standard of development applied, the United States was far ahead of Russia and most other communist countries in terms of standard of living.

    And the United States isn't even capitalist. It is simply less communist than other countries.