The REPUBLICAN BLUEPRINT to STEAL the 2024 ELECTION

Author: oromagi

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At least the current one doesn’t think clean coal when they take it out and scrub it with a brush.
No, the current president thinks we can all fly in magical electric cars while families can't eat. That's sooo much better in a presidential leader.
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@Double_R
There is a reason human civilization has thrived.
it certainly isn't delegation of critical thought to a small an unaccountable social elite...



there is a reason we put a man on the moon and satellites in space.
The reason is reason.


No one person figured out everything needed to accomplish this.
....and no one person was trusted beyond what he could prove if called upon to do so. The refusal or failure to do so would be a red flag of the greatest dimensions, and that is because people who build (working) rockets aren't irrational sheep and don't believe in fairy-tales.


The irony here is that you think you are somehow different - like you're thinking for yourself while the rest of us mindless bots just follow others.
Well the first order evidence of that proposition would be fact that I have to explain that pointing to other people's assertions isn't an argument. If "you" were all thinking for yourselves to the same degree that I am, you would know that already; it would be taken for granted.


The simple fact is that the overwhelming majority of information you consider knowledge you, just like the rest of us, learned from someone else. How do you know George Washington was a real person? Were you there? No, you were told he was. How do you know Antarctica exists? Have you ever been there? No, you were told it exists, and shown images you were told was Antarctica.

The only difference between us is in who we decide to trust with the information we consider to be factual and more importantly, how we go about determining who to trust. That's where the "I don't trust experts" idea goes off the rails. There is nothing wrong with skepticism, but that is something entirely different.
Did I say "I don't trust experts"? If I did that was an error. Of course I trust information I've been given when there has never been any serious doubts raised against it and it doesn't appear to create contradictions with established mechanics of reality.

but if I said "I trust X and therefore I'm right", that would be fallacy. If I have no reason to believe Antarctica exists besides that I heard it does then I've no business trying to argue it exists.

Where arguments are known no trust is necessary. If I knew all the arguments I would be an expert. If I run out of arguments I've run out of expertise and I must hold my assertive tongue. This is true for everyone else, only they don't always know it.

An expert in a debate will have the best arguments and if he does not he is not the most expert after-all. Similarly if someone you claim is not expert has better arguments than someone you claim is expert your opinion on expertise counts for nothing. The concept of expertise simply has no useful place in debate.


If you do not immediately see this explain the means to differentiate between an appeal to people and appeal to authority.
I don't know what "appeal to people means".


There are appeals to authority, and then there is the appeal to authority fallacy, which I already explained is when you appeal to someone who is not an authority. The difference between these two is the process by which we tell who is an authority.
and despite what your preferred list of fallacies might tell you, I am saying that all appeals to authority are fallacies because the only irrefutable difference between an authority and a false authority is sound/strong argument on the subject itself; hence the appeal in of itself never lends support, hence it is a fallacy.


The first is about credentials, including experience and proven results. If someone has a track record of accomplishing the desired result, they are likely to continue getting said results. That's basic inference.
Hippocrates could reliably perform surgeries that the average person even today would likely botch, yet he was wrong about the four humors. Deductive inference failed.


And yes, there will always be some doctor or some scientist out there who will tell you what you want to hear, that’s why we look to the bulk of expertise in order to determine what the authority is there.
As I implied before, a modified ad populum. The majority isn't always wrong, often it is right; but as a deductive argument it is fallacy because sometimes the oddball is Galileo.


To do otherwise is claim humanity itself is not only incapable of understanding a particular field, but also that we are not smart enough to know we don’t understand it. That takes quite an argument to justify.
There are no such implications from my statements.
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@Greyparrot
Better a trusted authority than an Orange Clown.

So said the Moderate core, to the bedevilment of the Conservative extremists.


Long live the Moderates.
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@Greyparrot
You are right, FDR for example was far more aggressive in exercising his democratically bestowed authority. In fact, no president is like any other.
Is this even supposed to be a serious thought? I mean why bother?

Maybe you should edit the wiki page on Authoritarians to include Trump's name since you seem to be the only one with this idea.
Along with every expert out there on authoritarianism.

I don’t need to edit the page cause I actually read it.

No, the current president thinks we can all fly in magical electric cars while families can't eat. That's sooo much better in a presidential leader.
And here’s the difference between us, my example came out of Trump’s own mouth while you just make shit up because it goes with the caricature in your news bubble.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The majority isn't always wrong, often it is right; but as a deductive argument it is fallacy because sometimes the oddball is Galileo.
We’re not talking about deductive arguments, we’re talking about inference and induction. In the absence of subject matter knowledge we turn to those who have it because that gives us our best chance to achieve the desired result. This is what I’ve been saying and nothing I’ve said remotely suggests that one must be right because they listened to the experts.

and despite what your preferred list of fallacies might tell you
You are not the only one thinking for yourself here. Get over yourself.

I am saying that all appeals to authority are fallacies because the only irrefutable difference between an authority and a false authority is sound/strong argument on the subject itself
I’ll remember this the next time I get legal advice from a competent attorney.

The issue is that if the subject matter is complicated enough (which follows from the fact that we would consult with the experts in the first place) then you need expertise in order to understand the arguments themselves. So you are partly correct, we don’t publish scientific findings because Scientist X said so and he’s a trusted authority. He became a trusted authority by making the case which the rest of the scientific community was able to verify.

And notice the last sentence… the scientific community… there is a reason we use peer review and not public polling.

Also I’m curious… do you think the justice system has it completely wrong to use expert witness testimony?

An expert in a debate will have the best arguments and if he does not he is not the most expert after-all.
That’s not true. Experts have expertise in their fields, they don’t necessarily have strong rhetorical skills and certainly do not always have the ability to deal with ignorant people making absurd arguments. Debate is itself a skill and that’s not what they were recognized for excelling in.

Anyone can make an argument that sounds good to the lamen, just listen to flat earthers.
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Honestly I do find it weird that you hold Biden in a higher regard than his own party has. 

Biden remains a clear example to the sane that credentials never equate to competency.
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@ILikePie5
Biden is the 1st American mail-order president. Unfortunately the package was damaged in transit.
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@Greyparrot
 
And Melania's father Viktor was a member of the Slovenian Communist Party. He must have been pretty dedicated, because at that time in Slovenia’s history, only about five percent of the people there were registered with the Party. Viktor once worked for the mayor of Hrastnik, and then became a salesman at a state-owned car company. Following his rigid set of atheist beliefs, Melania and her sister were not baptized, nor did they make their first holy communion with the other children. According to one source, a document from the Slovenian State Archives showed that Viktor Knavs was a listed member of the League of Communists and likely contributed to their ability to escape a state-owned communal property in 1984. Both Donald’s first and third wives, Ivana and Melania, were born and raised as Communists, interestingly. Some media outlets have gone as far as questioning if Melania is a Communist spy! Now wouldn’t that be a perfect “in” for the Commies, a spy living in the White House?
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@FLRW
If Communism means 2 dollar gasoline, pour the Vodka Comrade.
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@Greyparrot

Touche', I am for communism.
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@Greyparrot
Honestly I do find it weird that you hold Biden in a higher regard than his own party has. 
If you pay attention to the context of my points about Biden I don’t hold him in high regard at all, I just find it baffling how anyone with an IQ above room temperature can think he’s worse than Trump and find no explanation for that other than pure hypocrisy, which is the thing I’m actually attacking.
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@Double_R
If you pay attention to the context of my points about Biden I don’t hold him in high regard at all, I just find it baffling how anyone with an IQ above room temperature can think he’s worse than Trump and find no explanation for that other than pure hypocrisy, which is the thing I’m actually attacking.
Maybe the inflation, horrible Afghanistan withdrawal, same number of deaths for COVID (with a vaccine), completely open border, etc.
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same number of deaths
Actually more. Even if you were to accept every Biden excuse for the failed state of America today, that just proves how incompetent Biden is in the face of adversity.

At a time where competency is much needed.

81 million votes for the most credentialed American president in all of American history.
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@ILikePie5
Maybe the inflation, horrible Afghanistan withdrawal, same number of deaths for COVID (with a vaccine), completely open border, etc.
Presidents are not gods. They don’t control humanity, they control one branch of the federal government of one country. So in order to evaluate the performance of a president you need to have the bandwidth to think beyond “inflation high, Biden president, therefore Biden bad”. The world is not that simple even if you are.

Take COVID for example. Biden took office during the midst of the holiday spike in deaths which was the worst peak we ever saw. Deaths from COVID lag, so the spread of the virus took place while Trump was still in office even if the actual deaths occurred under Biden. Does any of this factor into your numbers? No, of course it doesn’t.

But the reality is that it shouldn’t, because that’s not how any rational person evaluates a president. We look at what they actually did. Trump was COVID’s best friend, he couldn’t have done more to spread the virus if he tried. From holding supper spreader events before there were any vaccines, to telling everyone to just open everything up, to attacking anyone who took the virus seriously, to politicizing masks. To argue that there is some equivalence between Biden’s handling vs Trump’s on the basis of death counts is absurd.

It’s also self contradictory. To evaluate a president’s handling of COVID based on death counts is to concede that government policy impacts its spread, yet these are all the same people claiming that masks and lockdowns don’t work. Either we can control its spread or we can’t. Pick one.
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@ILikePie5
BTW, the hypocrisy of the right wing’s fascination with the Afghanistan withdrawal never ceases to amaze me. When Trump pulled US forces out of Syria completely  abandoning the Kurds and leaving milirary equipment behind for it to fall into the hands of ISIL fighters, no one on the political right gave a rats ass, but here we are a year later and the right still talks about Afghanistan as if that pull out was the worst thing we ever saw. It wasn’t. If Syria happened under Biden you would swear this alone was reason enough for all of us to recognize how incompetent and dangerous he is which is why he needs to go. But it was Trump, so no one cares.

You don’t really care about this.
Greyparrot
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@ILikePie5
One nice thing about Trump was that he was open to all sorts of Covid treatments like remdesvir and others if it could save lives. Once Biden got in, there was a significant censorship of any talk outside of vacc$ines, cause of course...big Pharma. Talk about selling Americans out.
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@Greyparrot
Biden remains a clear example to the sane, that old age doesn't necessarily equate to competency.

Just as Trump should remain a clear example to the sane, that the shady world of big business doesn't necessarily equate to Presidential competency.


Keep taking the disinfectant.
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@zedvictor4
Some more fake news lol
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@Double_R
BTW, the hypocrisy of the right wing’s fascination with the Afghanistan withdrawal never ceases to amaze me. When Trump pulled US forces out of Syria completely  abandoning the Kurds and leaving milirary equipment behind for it to fall into the hands of ISIL fighters, no one on the political right gave a rats ass, but here we are a year later and the right still talks about Afghanistan as if that pull out was the worst thing we ever saw. It wasn’t.
Trump destroyed ISIS. #PromisesMadePromisesKept

If Syria happened under Biden you would swear this alone was reason enough for all of us to recognize how incompetent and dangerous he is which is why he needs to go. But it was Trump, so no one cares.

You don’t really care about this.
Everything looks fine to me. Oh and about the Kurds, talk to out NATO ally Turkey. Maybe they can clue you in on what’s up.
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@ILikePie5
Trump destroyed ISIS.
I think you meant to say "democracy" because ISIS is still around.  FOX News just stopped reporting on them.
2 days ago:
12 days ago:
With Spate of Attacks, ISIS Begins Bloody New Chapter in Afghanistan

#LiesToldLiesBelieved

The USA made a lot of promises to its Kurdish allies which you blithely ignore while claiming "promises kept."  I guess Trump forgot to instruct you on this, but Erdogan put his opposition in jail in 2016- 30,000 political opponents, journalists, and college professors who didn't support his authoritarian takeover.   We still want Turkey to oppose Russia but the problem with taking advice from dictators is dictators never have your best interest at heart, only their own.  

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I think you meant to say "democracy" because ISIS is still around.  FOX News just stopped reporting on them.
No, Trump said he defeated ISIS so it is so. If they pop back up (on Fox News) it’s because Biden bad.
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@ILikePie5
Trump destroyed ISIS. #PromisesMadePromisesKept
He actually didn’t, but even if he did, it still has nothing to do with everything I just said which you not surprisingly ignored.

Everything looks fine to me.
Well dUh I know that, it was in fact my point. If it’s Trump it’s fine, if it’s Biden it’s a catastrophe to carry all the way to the next election.

But like you said and are demonstrating here; reason, logic, consistency… these are all meaningless. You’re just fighting the battle so your team wins. Serious good faith conversion be dammed.
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“ISIS is not dead,” said Robert Richer, the CIA’s deputy director of operations during the George W. Bush administration, using a common acronym for the Islamic State. “We destroyed the caliphate, but they’re now popping up in numerous places. Meanwhile, the worldwide coalition to fight ISIS doesn’t really exist anymore.”
Trump has championed his counterterrorism successes at nearly every campaign event, often referring to the Islamic State in the past tense. “We obliterated 100% of the ISIS caliphate,” he said in his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention in August.
But other officials say the threat has merely shifted to new regions and different forms. In the 18 months since the fall of the Islamic State’s last Syrian stronghold, the group’s African affiliates have seen dramatic gains in territory and recruits, as well as in firepower, according to a study published in August in CTC Sentinel, a journal published by the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point.
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@oromagi
I think you meant to say "democracy" because ISIS is still around.  FOX News just stopped reporting on them.
2 days ago:
12 days ago:
With Spate of Attacks, ISIS Begins Bloody New Chapter in Afghanistan

#LiesToldLiesBelieved
Last I checked the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) not the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) do not hold any territory. You’re equating terrorist attacks to Orange Man Bad. Nice one.

The USA made a lot of promises to its Kurdish allies which you blithely ignore while claiming "promises kept."  I guess Trump forgot to instruct you on this, but Erdogan put his opposition in jail in 2016- 30,000 political opponents, journalists, and college professors who didn't support his authoritarian takeover.
I didn’t see Trump make that promise. Nice job.

We still want Turkey to oppose Russia but the problem with taking advice from dictators is dictators never have your best interest at heart, only their own.  
So we shouldn’t support a NATO ally cause he’s a dictator. Next thing you know, we shouldn’t support a NATO ally when they’re attacked because the leader is a dictator.
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But like you said and are demonstrating here; reason, logic, consistency… these are all meaningless. You’re just fighting the battle so your team wins. Serious good faith conversion be dammed.
I have tried to have a good faithed conversation with you before, but it hasn’t worked out. Neither of our minds are gonna be changed; my new philosophy is to keep it short and simple for both of our sanities.
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-->@oromagi

Last I checked the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) not the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) do not hold any territory.
well then I guess the last you checked was never.  

Wikipedia:

"ISIL", "ISIS", and "Daish" redirect here. For other uses, see ISIL (disambiguation)Isis (disambiguation)Daesh (disambiguation), and Daish (surname).

The Islamic State (IS; official name since June 2014), at times known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL; /ˈaɪsɪl/) or the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS; /ˈaɪsɪs/) and also referred to by its Arabic-language acronym Daesh (داعش, Dāʿish, IPA: [ˈdaːʕɪʃ]), is an Islamist militant jihadist group and former unrecognized quasi-state that follows a Salafi jihadist doctrine based on the Sunni branch of Islam.

You’re equating terrorist attacks to Orange Man Bad.
In what way?  I mean, not that I wouldn't, just that I don't see that in what I've just written.
Nice one.
Thanks, man!
I didn’t see Trump make that promise.
Lindsey Graham has released a scathing statement in defiance of Donald Trump’s decision to pull US troops out of parts of Syria, saying the move “ensures the reemergence of ISIS” in the region.

“Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration,” Mr Graham, a close ally of the president in the US Senate, tweeted in a rare rebuke on Tuesday.

Mr Graham came out in swift opposition to the administration’s plan to remove US troops from northeast Syria, saying it would leave a vacuum that could allow the Islamic State to possibly restore its caliphate while also allowing Turkish troops to begin a massive assault on the Kurds, who the US have considered a strategic ally in its fight against terrorism.

His comments came as Turkish fighter jets began bombing the area of Syria in which the country had long planned to carry out a military offensive, with experts citing the abrupt US pullout for paving the way for the assault to take place.

A spokesperson for the SDF, a Kurdish-majority militia that also encompasses several smaller groups, described Mr Trump’s withdrawal as a “stab in the back”.
The militia has been the US' main ally in fighting Isis in Syria and has lost an estimated 11,000 fighters as it fought to take back strongholds from the militants earlier this year.

Mr Graham described the decision as a “disaster in the making” earlier this week and took to the president’s favourite TV network to air his concerns.

“I hope I’m making myself clear how short-sighted and irresponsible this decision is,” Mr Graham told Fox News. “I like President Trump. I’ve tried to help him. This, to me, is just unnerving to its core.”

Other Republicans and military officials have also expressed concerns the move will lead to potentially catastrophic consequences in the region.

Marco Rubio, a Florida Republican who ran against Mr Trump in the 2016 election, said his decision was “a grave mistake that will have implications far beyond Syria.”

Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader who has largely supported the president’s agenda on Capitol Hill, also slammed the decision in a statement.

“As we learned the hard way during the Obama Administration, American interests are best served by American leadership, not by retreat or withdrawal,” he said.
Susan Collins, a Maine Republican who has occasionally spoke out against the president, also called the move a “terribly unwise decision”.

Even Nikki Haley, Mr Trump’s former ambassador to the United Nations, called the move a “big mistake” on Twitter.

“The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake,” she wrote.

Mr Trump has shot down criticism of his decision in a series of tweets posted earlier this week, warning Turkey against attacking the Kurdish forces, which it views as terrorists.

“If Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey,” he wrote. “The endless and ridiculous wars are ENDING! We will be focused on the big picture, knowing we can always go back & BLAST!”

omg.  did our potus really tweet that out loud?  fuck.

Nice job.
thanks!

So we shouldn’t support a NATO ally cause he’s a dictator.
What part of "we still want Turkey to oppose Russia" did you fail to comprehend?


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@ILikePie5
I have tried to have a good faithed conversation with you before, but it hasn’t worked out. Neither of our minds are gonna be changed
Why do either of our minds have to change? What’s wrong with a deeper understanding of alternative points of view? If your position is right wouldn’t the attempt only further demonstrate it?
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@oromagi
Wow Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, and Nikki Haley said that? Interesting
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Why do either of our minds have to change? What’s wrong with a deeper understanding of alternative points of view? If your position is right wouldn’t the attempt only further demonstrate it?
There’s an opportunity cost involved. I’d love to have a deep chat, but there are other things I have to do in life that I find more important than understanding the opposing viewpoint. In my opinion, I understand the opposing viewpoint relatively well. Obviously there will be holes, but that’s why I read what you and Oromagi say even if I don’t comment on it. You only get to live the college life once :/
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@Greyparrot
One nice thing about Trump was that he was open to all sorts of Covid treatments like remdesvir and others if it could save lives. Once Biden got in, there was a significant censorship of any talk outside of vacc$ines, cause of course...big Pharma. 
Everyone is open to different COVID treatments, what any rational person is against are treatments that are ineffective and potentially harmful. That’s why we have clinical trials/studies and rely on data. All Trump did was jump to support every drug that any lunatic doctor on Fox News propagated, that’s what the current administration stopped.