Student Debt Cancellation

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thett3
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Rumors are swirling that Biden is considering canceling a large portion, or potentially all, of federal student debt. 

I have mixed feelings on the matter. On the one hand making it more difficult for high IQ people to start families and have kids is obviously a bad idea. And a lot of students did basically get tricked as foolish 18 year olds into signing on to life ruining debt that isn’t dischargeable. 

At the same time this is incredibly unfair to the parents who scrimped and saved for their children education, or for the students who sacrificed retirement savings, vacations, home buying etc so that they could pay down their debt. Around 60% of student debt is held by graduate degree holders, so this would be a handout to some of the most privileged people  in society. Moreover it doesn’t solve the actual problem, which is continuously growing college costs driven in part by access to large amount of loans. 

My position is that something like a means tested forgiveness or making loans dischargeable in bankruptcy would be the ideal. I would also cancel the interest due on federal loans because we shouldn’t be usurious to our young people for getting an education. But I don’t think we should punish responsible people and perpetuate a flawed system. What do you guys think 
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I think that cancelling loan debt causes greater problems than it solves. My biggest concern is what incentives it would possibly create, not the least of which would be encouraging colleges to raise, not lower tuition. And, as you said, the slap in the face it is for people who either paid off their loans at great inconvenience or simply went to less costly programs. It would also be a pro inflationary measure.

Going forward, it would be nice if steps were taken to prevent further abuses. Perhaps requiring colleges to co-sign the loan so that they have skin in their own game. Perhaps not issuing loans to students majoring in the “soft” sciences. There are too many courses of study which serve as a one way ticket to a life of debt laden poverty.

To loosely quote Frank Zappa:  “If you want your kids to learn, give them a library card. If you want them to party, get drunk, and fornicate, send them to college.”
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i also doubt that biden has the authority to cancel all that debt
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@thett3
It sends 2 messages that are pretty bad.

1) no matter what you choose to do with your life, other people will pick up the tab for it if you are in a protected group.

2) this is essentially also a gift to universities encouraging universities to sell more worthless degrees at inflated prices with the sales pitch that it will be paid for by others.
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@thett3
Rumors are swirling that Biden is considering canceling a large portion, or potentially all, of federal student debt. 
It will never happen.  Ever.  It's a complete pipe dream.

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@n8nrgim
Biden absolutely has the authority to cancel student debt.
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@thett3
I think now would be a terrible time for this, really. The federal government is trillions in debt and the dollar is already being challenged as the world reserve currency. I think that cancelling a massive receivable from our “books” would hurt our case.

Something needs to be done. I liked the talk of income sharing agreements years back (we get x% of your income for x amount of years and then you don’t owe us anything else, differing years and percentages based on degree). It’s good because if you aren’t making much money, they don’t take much. You won’t be struggling for interest payments in most cases 
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@cristo71
I think that cancelling loan debt causes greater problems than it solves. My biggest concern is what incentives it would possibly create, not the least of which would be encouraging colleges to raise, not lower tuition. And, as you said, the slap in the face it is for people who either paid off their loans at great inconvenience or simply went to less costly programs. It would also be a pro inflationary measure.
Exactly, any long term solution has to go after the universities for charging such exorbitant tuition. A good solution is making the loans dischargeable and bankruptcy and making the schools cosign. 

I have no student loan debt and never had, but it’s because for the 8 years my sister and I were in college, my dad worked a second job. He was working 70 hour weeks and having an average of one day off a week for almost a decade. Biden would make all that for nothing to try to buy votes…
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Something needs to be done. I liked the talk of income sharing agreements years back (we get x% of your income for x amount of years and then you don’t owe us anything else, differing years and percentages based on degree). It’s good because if you aren’t making much money, they don’t take much. You won’t be struggling for interest payments in most cases 
Andrew Yang suggested if you pay 10% of your income for 10 years the balance should be forgiven. I think that’s fair, or something close to it. But forgiving the debt of doctors and lawyers who just graduated is disgusting. If he does cancel some debt it better be capped at some modest level or I’ll be furious 
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@coal
what law gives him the authority to cancel student debt? 
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The same authority used to keep Dreamers in the country.

As the Executive Branch, he can choose to not enforce laws for as long as Congress will allow it.
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@thett3
Andrew Yang suggested if you pay 10% of your income for 10 years the balance should be forgiven. I think that’s fair, or something close to it. But forgiving the debt of doctors and lawyers who just graduated is disgusting. If he does cancel some debt it better be capped at some modest level or I’ll be furious 

Yeah, that doesn't sound like a bad plan. I'd still say that percent and time should differ based either on type of degree (bachelor, masters, phd) or what you went to school for (since some just don't make much money, yet cost the same, they are causing much more of a deficit if treated the same). But either way, I'd back a proposal for taking a percentage of income then forgiving any extra at the end of whatever period
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@n8nrgim
20 U.S.C. § 1082(a)(6), among others. 
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@coal
In the performance of, and with respect to, the functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by this part, the Secretary may—enforce, pay,
compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired, including any equity or any right of redemption.

Impressed?
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@coal
Can The President Cancel All Federal Student Loans?
The President does not have the legal authority to forgive student loans on his own. Only Congress has the power of the purse. Executive action can be used only when it has been specifically authorized by Congress.
The executive branch cannot spend money that has not been appropriated by Congress, per 31 USC 1301 et seq (Antideficiency Act (P.L. 97-258)) and Article I, Section 7, Clause 7 of the U.S. Constitution.

The claims that the President has the authority to forgive student loans are based on a misreading of the Higher Education Act of 1965 at 20 USC 1082(a)(6). That section of the Higher Education Act of 1965 provides the U.S. Secretary of Education with the authority to: 

“...modify, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired, including any equity or any right of redemption.”
But that quote is taken out of context. The preamble to that section of the Higher Education Act of 1965 limits this authority to operating within the scope of the statute:

“In the performance of, and with respect to, the functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by this part, the Secretary may—"
In other words, when Congress authorizes a loan forgiveness program, such as Public Service Loan ForgivenessTeacher Loan Forgiveness or the Total and Permanent Disability Discharge, the U.S. Secretary of Education has the authority to forgive student loans as authorized under the terms of these loan forgiveness programs.

Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. As the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc., (531 USC 457, 2001), Congress does not “hide elephants in mouseholes.”

In addition, the “this part” language refers to Part B of Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965, which applies only to loans made under the Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) program.

There is similar language in Part E at 20 USC 1087hh for the Federal Perkins Loan program. There is no similar language for Part D for the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan (Direct Loan) program.

The "parallel terms clause" in the Higher Education Act of 1965 at 20 USC 1087e(a)(1) (also, 20 USC 1087a(b)(2)) requires Direct Loan program loans to have the same terms and conditions as FFEL program loans. But this does not apply to the waiver authority because waiver authority is not part of the terms and conditions of the loans. 

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@n8nrgim
Even if that's the case, He can defer payments till eternity, just as the Dreamers are handled. It's does not have to be an outright dismissal or cancellation of payments.
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@n8nrgim
Mind you, Biden has deferred Loan payments as a part of the Covid emergency 6 times now with no court interference.
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@Greyparrot
even if he's deferring loans currently, that doesn't mean it's legal. do you have a source that it's legal? i would say the presumption is that he doesn't have the authority, cause presidents are suppose to enforce laws, not just do what they want.

the dreamer regulations might not be legal either. and, even if it is legal, that doesn't mean pausing loans is legal. the justification for the dreamer deportation pause is that it isn't cost effective.... that wouldn't apply to collecting money on loans. 
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yeah I've seen that argument and it's not persuasive 

if I was being paid, I'd argue the point ... but I'm not so I won't sorry 
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@coal
i dont see any way around what i posted. but sure feel free to think whatever you want. 
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@bmdrocks21
The federal government is trillions in debt
This is largely due to the military industrial complex, which neocons support.  Military spending should be 1% of the GDP of the US.
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@TheUnderdog
Military spending should be 1% of the GDP of the US
Why should it be some arbitrary number you just made up? Shouldn’t it be whatever is necessary to keep us safe, whether that be 5% or .5%?

This is largely due to the military industrial complex, which neocons support.
No it’s not. Military spending is just a fraction of what is spent on entitlement programs. 

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No it’s not. Military spending is just a fraction of what is spent on entitlement programs. 
One month of entitlements could build a permanent wall.
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Estimated U.S. military spending for the fiscal year 2022 is $754 billion. It covers the period October 1, 2021, through September 30, 2022.1 Military spending is the second-largest item in the federal budget after Social Security.
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@FLRW
Entitlement spending totaled 49% of total federal expenditures in fiscal year 2020 and 2021.


Estimated U.S. military spending for the fiscal year 2022 is $754 billion. 
Would be a lot lower if we were not fighting Biden's war protecting his business interests in Ukraine.
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@bmdrocks21
Why should it be some arbitrary number you just made up? Shouldn’t it be whatever is necessary to keep us safe, whether that be 5% or .5%?
Military spending by the NATO quotas are already an arbitrary proportion (2% of GDP).  A 1% military budget would be enough to keep us safe.

No it’s not. Military spending is just a fraction of what is spent on entitlement programs. 
Medicaid and the military budget cost a comparable amount for the US federal government.  Both should be cut to 1% of the GDP and any poor person that needs health insurance can go to a church for help since the church consents and taxpayers don't.
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@TheUnderdog
Military spending by the NATO quotas are already an arbitrary proportion (2% of GDP).  A 1% military budget would be enough to keep us safe.

Could you kindly point out where I say that 2% for NATO is a good idea? I don't like the arbitrary amounts, but that is for preventing freeloading off of others' defense spending.

Now explain how 1% will keep us safe. What will we cut by going from $800 billion to $200 billion? Are we going to lay off hundreds of thousands of trained soldiers? Are we going to stop investing in military technology?
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@bmdrocks21
Could you kindly point out where I say that 2% for NATO is a good idea? I don't like the arbitrary amounts, but that is for preventing freeloading off of others' defense spending.
I thought you supported the 2% mark for NATO.  My bad.

Now explain how 1% will keep us safe. What will we cut by going from $800 billion to $200 billion?
I support increasing the GDP of the US which would increase the GDP to high enough levels to make making the military budget 1% of the GDP a dollar increase due to an increase in GDP.  This GDP increase can be obtained by letting any taxpayer into the country, thereby contributing to our GDP if the US government got out of the way and let people come here without government permits.  Sic semper tyrannis.

Moreover, even if we don't get this, the US is in NATO, so it's 1% of our GDP plus the military budget of every country in NATO helping to keep the US safe.

Are we going to lay off hundreds of thousands of trained soldiers?
They have degrees and no PTSD yet.  They can get civilian jobs with no problem.

Are we going to stop investing in military technology?
Given that we have thousands of nukes, no country will invade us, so I think we can spend less on military technology and be safe from invaders.  We probably could spend nothing on the military except for nuke matience and no country would want to invade us because they would be worried about nuclear hellfire from our nukes.  We can make a deal with Russia that we get rid of 3/4 of our nukes if they get rid of 3/4 of their nukes.  This way, if nuclear war happens, it won't be as bad and both the US and Russia still have about 1500 nukes.  We also agree that if any more nukes get developed by either country, then the other country can develop 1 more nuke per nuke developed by the other country.  This, combined with the cost of dismantling and rebuilding nukes serves as an incentive for both countries to not produce any more nukes once 75% of their nukes get dismantled.
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@TheUnderdog
I thought you supported the 2% mark for NATO.  My bad.

I support making each country pay their fair share if they are going to take part in a military alliance.

This GDP increase can be obtained by letting any taxpayer into the country, thereby contributing to our GDP if the US government got out of the way and let people come here without government permits.
You'll also increase your need for defense spending. Just check out Europe's new Muslim terrorist problem. They didn't have to worry about beheadings a few decades ago.

 Sic semper tyrannis.
Do you think it is tyrannical to keep homeless people from coming into your house?

They have degrees and no PTSD yet.  They can get civilian jobs with no problem.

A lot of people join the military to be able to afford advanced degrees. There aren't that many good paying jobs without a specialized degree.

Given that we have thousands of nukes, no country will invade us, so I think we can spend less on military technology and be safe from invaders.  We probably could spend nothing on the military except for nuke matience and no country would want to invade us because they would be worried about nuclear hellfire from our nukes.  We can make a deal with Russia that we get rid of 3/4 of our nukes if they get rid of 3/4 of their nukes.  This way, if nuclear war happens, it won't be as bad and both the US and Russia still have about 1500 nukes.  We also agree that if any more nukes get developed by either country, then the other country can develop 1 more nuke per nuke developed by the other country.  This, combined with the cost of dismantling and rebuilding nukes serves as an incentive for both countries to not produce any more nukes once 75% of their nukes get dismantled.

So our only defense will be threatening to nuke people?  Hate to break it to you, but nukes aren't the best at everything.