What is a man or woman?

Author: secularmerlin

Posts

Total: 185
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,356
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I don't know what you mean?
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
I don't know what you mean?
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,356
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Ah, I see, it's a conspiracy theory?
I don't use the words conspiracy theory, to say it's not 'real.
Though my mind currently has it flipped on not real.
Some conspiracies prove true.

I thought you might mean inevitable collapses as happen to populations naturally in course of history or environment,
But you mean government induced policy, I think.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
I thought you might mean inevitable collapses as happen to populations naturally in course of history or environment,
our current food supply is boosted significantly by petroleum based fertilizers

petroleum based fertilizers are unsustainable

the MIT study that predicts societal collapse by 2040 is not a "conspiracy theory"

Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,356
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
People also thought Y2K was going to be a big disaster.
I'm not saying the prediction is wrong, but that I've done no research, so I don't have a strong opinion on it.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
Think that it's healthier, less dangerous to society, for people to keep in society the position of sex they were born.
ok

but how would you translate this opinion from a legal perspective ?
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,356
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I'm unsure, as I'm not well read on the law.
But it would seem to me a mistake, to put a completely physical man in a woman's prison, or a completely physical woman in a man's prison.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
But it would seem to me a mistake, to put a completely physical man in a woman's prison, or a completely physical woman in a man's prison.
perhaps prisons should be segregated by weight-class ?
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,356
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I think it's possibly that prisons in 'general, could be designed or restructured many different ways,
Likely improved.
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
It is a problem there's all kinds of problem populations when it comes to prisons. There are physically very weak people that might have to go to prison. Pregnant women. Law enforcement. Pedophiles. People that have aged in in the system and now need nursing home care we have a prison in the state just for nursing home patients. More than likely what would be needed or will become necessary or wings that would provide a safe environment for the trans population that doesn't involve PC. More than likely PC is where they're at now but PC is a population that's highly endangered and I don't think it's right to necessarily even have PC in the same prison walls because during riots one of the first thing that happens is PC inmates are murdered.
Nyxified
Nyxified's avatar
Debates: 21
Posts: 224
2
3
9
Nyxified's avatar
Nyxified
2
3
9
-->
@secularmerlin
While I could do my usual spiel about how trans women are women, let me instead propose an alternative:

Depends. Which definition is the most useful given the context?

In 99.9% of contexts, including medical care and in social situations, to define someone based on their chromosomes is not the most useful definition. It is, in fact, occasionally very unhelpful (ex: times when a cis woman is born with all the sex characteristics of a woman but has male chromosomes).

29 days later

Ultramaga
Ultramaga's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 31
0
0
5
Ultramaga's avatar
Ultramaga
0
0
5
-->
@TheMorningsStar
So there are men with certain chromosomes, women with certain chromosomes, and a few aberrations that are both?

39 days later

DebateAllDaTings
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 78
0
1
2
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
DebateAllDaTings
0
1
2
If we mean “man” or “woman” pertaining to biological sex and not gender, then the question is really “what is a male or female?”.

This depends on whether you define sex in terms of genetics or genitalia. I think genetics is more fundamental with genitalia being more cosmetic meaning the former is a better way to determine sex.

Most males and females have their genitalia in line with their genetics, but there are very rare mismatches.

If would say a male has XY chromosomes and a female has XX chromosomes. Period.

If an XY person has a vagina then that vagina is an biological error, and if a XX person has a penis then that penis is a biological error.

Your genitals don’t change your genetics.


ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,923
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@TheMorningsStar
Thus, sex is binary.
For humans not fungi
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,923
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@DebateAllDaTings
...." The answer to our hypothetical survey is simple: gametes are the difference between males and females. But if you take a more holistic point of view, it’s not as straightforward.
......Exactly what a male and female looks like, at the end of the day, and how each behaves (their sex roles) depends largely on the ecological theatre in which their evolutionary history has been played out. "....

--> = spermozoa  ---X or y, not both--- simple ergo mass produced ex hydrogen atom is simple and most mass-produced in Universe/God

O = egg ---X only--- more complex ergo more rarefied

X x - X y = three X's for every y in Universe/God when all is in equanimity.


(((v))) = fertilized egg that invaginates { v } to create three germ layers ---aka gastrulation----





FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,613
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
Defining gender as a condition determined strictly by a person’s genitals is based on a notion that doctors and scientists abandoned long ago as oversimplified and often medically meaningless.
Researchers who have studied gender issues and provided health care to people who do not fit the typical M/F pigeonholes said that previous Trump administration plan to define gender goes beyond the limits of scientific knowledge.
“The idea that a person’s sex is determined by their anatomy at birth is not true, and we’ve known that it’s not true for decades,” said Dr. Joshua D. Safer, an endocrinologist and executive director of the Center for Transgender Medicine and Surgery at Mount Sinai Health System in New York. He is also president of the United States Professional Association of Transgender Health.
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,173
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
What is a man or woman?  Beats the shit out of me, your guess is as good as anyone's. They or it  are what ever you want to believe they or it are. The question is out side of the realm of science, society, reason and logic. All I know is if you have  a inny you got get a pap smear test and if you have an outty you got get a prostate exam.
iloveshin
iloveshin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7
0
0
2
iloveshin's avatar
iloveshin
0
0
2
i belive that a woman is someone who identifies as so 
and a man is an individual who identifies as so 
it is very simple, but how? i do not know. ig for some people it's a psycological matter/topic i mean if a women identifies herself as a women because she likes girly things (for example) that is strictly based upon stereotypes it is completly valid, but untrue in some type of way, because men cause also like girly things.
so i'm kind of conflicted 
however in religions and certain types of beliefs it is different 
a woman is someone who posesses a uterus 
and a man is someone who posesses a penis 
so i think that people will never settle on an understanding regarding this debate .

TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@iloveshin
i belive that a woman is someone who identifies as so 
and a man is an individual who identifies as so 
What does it mean to identify as female/male?  Can I (as a white guy) identify as Michael Jordan and expect NBA teams to draft me even though I'm 170 cm tall?  Can I act like the stereotypical black guy and do stereotypically black things if I identify as a black guy?  What if science confirmed that some white guys have black brains and vice versa?

If you think it's racist to stereotype black people and apply it, would you argue it's sexist for a transgender to imitate the gender they identify with?

This is why gender theory is one of the few issues where most Americans agree with the right, so the right is leaning in on it because they know it's popular for them to do so.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,078
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@iloveshin
So is a duckling that identifies as a dog (not as silly as it might sound), a duck or a dog?

Well, it's still a duck, that has become psychologically associated with a dog.

Just as a man might  psychologically associate with femininity, and and a woman might associate with masculinity....Still doesn't mean that in terms of physical definition, a man is not a man and a woman is not a woman.

So we can say and do anything we choose to, but this does not alter the basic reality of gender....Male sperm producer, female egg producer.

Unless you cut his bollocks off, or remove her ovaries and render them both sterile.

Which won't stop people fiddling for fun with each others bits and bobs....Which is what it all really boils down to.....The application of sexuality, within a sexually repressed society.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,923
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@sadolite
...." The answer to our hypothetical survey is simple: gametes are the difference between males and females. But if you take a more holistic point of view, it’s not as straightforward.

......Exactly what a male and female looks like, at the end of the day, and how each behaves (their sex roles) depends largely on the ecological theatre in which their evolutionary history has been played out. "....

male gamet --> = spermozoa  ---X or y, not both--- simple ergo mass produced ex hydrogen atom is simple and most mass-produced in Universe/God

O = egg ---X only--- more complex ergo more rarefied

X x - X y = three X's for every y in Universe/God, when all is in equanimity.

(((v))) = fertilized egg that invaginates { v } to create three germ layers ---aka gastrulation----

Fishy Story
...ebuc...

There once was sperm in a current, --> __> --> __>

Whose tail whipped around like a turret. ~~~~~~>

It had little mind,  ---dumb ass sperm----
Perhaps even blind,  ----but nose works great----

Tho onward it swam through the ferment.  ---showing those salmon how its done---

It reached the egg, ---knock knock--
Stuck in its head,  ---daddys home----

Now the two are concurrent.   --pregnant woman announces, yes, but i will decided for how long over next 9 months----

iloveshin
iloveshin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7
0
0
2
iloveshin's avatar
iloveshin
0
0
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
as i said it's someone that identifies as so.  that means that tans people as you said transitioned from a gender to another and that said person now identifies as the gender they trasinitioned into. if you know what i mean
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@iloveshin
What does it mean to identity as a woman or a man?
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,173
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@ebuc
Ya, what the ever. My statement stands. You can be a giraffe if you want to. I am sure society can be made to accommodate any delusion people want to put forward using intimidation and threats of financial destruction for not doing so.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,923
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@sadolite
Fishy Story
...ebuc...

There once was sperm in a current, --> __> --> __>

Whose tail whipped around like a turret. ~~~~~~>

It had little mind,  ---dumb ass sperm----
Perhaps even blind,  ----but nose works great----

Tho onward it swam through the ferment.  ---showing those salmon how its done---

It reached the egg, ---knock knock--
Stuck in its head,  ---daddys home----

Invagination, makes the world go round,

Imagination,  leaves the world behind,

Realization, brings it back again,

United-nations, is one for all,

Divided-nation brings us to a stall.

Earth to Universe, Earth to Universe, our space-ship has stalled out an were going into a tail-spin around the galactic black hole.

......space(>*<) i  (>*<)space.....



sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,173
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@ebuc
Are you the future?
Ehyeh
Ehyeh's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 318
3
4
9
Ehyeh's avatar
Ehyeh
3
4
9
A man is someone with strength, a woman is someone with love. Any one who is full man or full woman, becomes unbalanced and out of tune with the flow of the river of life.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,923
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@sadolite
Are you the future?
Now its been 10,00 years, the twinkling of starlight, maybe its only yesterday,
in the year 2525, if   man {  X y }is still alive, if woman { X x } can survive they may find

Part 1 old

Part 2 new

It is believed by some that, the y chromsome is just and aborted X chromosome, that, somehow aquired the SRY gene.

Fred Hoyle and some others believe various biologic composition and viruses come from extra-terrestrial sources ex comets.

...." Where Do Comets Come From?
..The Oort Cloud
...It is thought that most comets originate in a vast cloud of ice and dust that surrounds the solar system. The Oort Cloud, as it is called, extends several thousand times farther from the Sun than Pluto, the outermost planet. A star passing near the solar system may have disturbed the motions of some comets in the Oort Cloud, sending them into the solar system. Results from the Stardust mission indicate that some comet materials originated at very high temperatures, suggesting they formed near the Sun and were later transported to colder regions."...


Left-handed amino-acids have been found in some metorites that have impacted Earth See Murchinson metorite.


....." For example, comet Hyakutake, which was easily visible to the naked eye in March, 1996, was first discovered by a Japanese amateur astronomer using binoculars. Astronomers were surprised to learn "Hyakutake contains abundant ethane and methane, compounds never before confirmed in comets" (7-9). On March 27, 1997, NASA announced that a year-long study using Hubble and several Earth-based telescopes shows that the trace ices in the nucleus of comet Hale-Bopp are somehow segregated from water-ice (10). And on April 21, 1997, astronomers on the Canary Islands reported that Hale-Bopp has a third tail of a kind not seen before; it is composed of sodium gas (11). Following so many new findings, comet theorists are completely rethinking how comets are formed and what they contain. Perhaps in the process they should consider biological causes for some of the unexpected phenomena. For example, on Earth, ethane comes from methane, and methane is made from carbon dioxide by bacteria. This process could happen on comets as well. ".....

sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,173
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@ebuc
I don't think you know anything about anything.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,923
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@sadolite
I don't think you know anything about anything.
The proof is in the pudding and the truth is in Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts. Simple.

A child thinks. An adult understands. A wise person comprehends. Generally speaking and generalization is what humans do best.

Sad please share when you any logical common sense comments that invalidate any of many comments, or even in this topic thread.

You do not, cause you have not any such logical, common sense comments to offer that invalidate mine.