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@Athias
Yes. So did Governor DeSantis attack Disney's free speech? Yes, he did.
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@CoolApe
fiduciary obligation to their shareholders.
i'm not sure how you personally measure "fiduciary obligation", but disney seems to be doing better than most
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@Double_R
But since that has never been a thing in the US,
perhaps you've never heard of richard nixon
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@Double_R
If the government is taking away a privilege you have as a direct response to your criticisms of them then that is by definition, retaliation, which is by definition, a violation of your free speech.
I take issue with this privilege existing, but that is a different debate. To the OP, I don't disagree this is retaliatory, and, yes, it is concerning.
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@Double_R
Every privilege not defined in the constitution is conditional.
A government big enough to give you everything is also a government big enough to take it all away.
That action of government seizure can't fall under free speech, or we would have court cases for example claiming Biden shut down the XL pipeline as retaliation for Republicans running against him, thus prohibiting free speech. Or cases claiming Biden exempted millions of illegal aliens in an attempt to subvert the free speech of Americans. There is no legal standing for any of those cases.
In fact, Disney today is free to vocalize opposition to becoming a Florida tax-payer, and they do so with paid lobbyists. No court would argue this is not happening.
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@Greyparrot
Every privilege not defined in the constitution is conditional.
RIGHTS ARE NOT PRIVILEGES
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@3RU7AL
In the legal sense, they kinda are. The Constitution only applies to the Jurisdiction of America, so it's a necessary requirement that you have the privilege of being an American citizen.
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@Greyparrot
isn't citizenship a birth-right ?
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@3RU7AL
Not if you are born in Mexico to Mexican parents. You don't get that privilege. The entire world isn't granted the right of being an American. It's why we have a border.
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@Greyparrot
One doesn't have to endorse or even accept Disney's position to acknowledge that their free speech was curtailed by Governor DeSantis. One could argue that their not being taxed for the last 50 years may have been a "privilege" (though I still wouldn't accept that not being robbed is a "privilege") but on the other hand, it could just as easily be argued that what the Disney parks have done for central Florida, and the state in its entirety, would more than make up for these "delinquent tax payments." Even if one argues, "well, other companies in Florida get taxed, why shouldn't Disney...?" the arrangement Disney has had with Florida was still dissolved merely by a difference in political opinion. And it's not uncommon for States to extend tax exemptions to companies/corporations that are deemed essential to their economies.
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@Greyparrot
Not if you are born in Mexico to Mexican parents. You don't get that privilege. The entire world isn't granted the right of being an American. It's why we have a border.
(IFF) one is bestowed citizenship in the USA (THEN) this citizenship is a right
(notaprivilege)
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@3RU7AL
RIGHTS ARE NOT PRIVILEGES
Well stated.
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@Athias
well, other companies in
there is a long history in the united states of corporations owning their own towns (and paying taxes to themselves)
Hershey, Pennsylvania, was founded by Hershey in 1903 for the company's workers
Gary, Indiana, was founded in 1906 by the United States Steel Corporation
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@Athias
One doesn't have to endorse or even accept Disney's position to acknowledge that their free speech was curtailed by Governor DeSantis.
If the metric of a free speech violation is any government seizure, then every government seizure is a constitutional violation.
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@Greyparrot
any government seizure
(in retaliation for speech)
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@3RU7AL
Pretty sure every government seizure affects a person with a form of speech.
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@Greyparrot
Pretty sure every government seizure affects a person with a form of speech.
Are you saying government siezures infringe on speech? If so, "Every" seems a gross overestimate.
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@SkepticalOne
When do they not?
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@Greyparrot
If the metric of a free speech violation is any government seizure, then every government seizure is a constitutional violation.
I would replace "constitutional" with "moral" since amendments subject "the constitution" to referendums on legislative opinion.
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@Double_R
Florida using the power of big government to crack down on private companies for saying what they believe.
It doesn’t really seem like a big government action to get rid of a preferential rule implemented by said government.
By that definition, wouldn’t closing tax loopholes also be an act of big government?
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@Athias
I'm talking about the legal argument.
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@bmdrocks21
By that definition, wouldn’t closing tax loopholes also be an act of big government?
Exactly.
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@Greyparrot
...every time its not.
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@SkepticalOne
...every time its not.
Can you name a specific example or a set of universal criteria, or is this just an abstract concept?
Because abstractions have no place in a court of law.
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@bmdrocks21
It doesn’t really seem like a big government action to get rid of a preferential rule implemented by said government.
i thought "conservatives" (and by extension "republicans") would be generally in favor of letting the land owner pay for their own fire department, water and sewer, electrical grid, road planning and maintenance, and police force.
i mean, isn't that what local "taxes" are theoretically paying for ?
isn't the "conservative motto" basically "stay off my lawn" ?
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@Greyparrot
Because abstractions have no place in a court of law.
abstractions like "motive" ?
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@Greyparrot
Do you think your suggestion that every government seizure infringes speech stands if not disproven? That's not how the burden of proof works anywhere.
I simply want you to explain what you mean and how you figure if you're willing and able.
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@3RU7AL
Abstractions like "A defendant" or "A plaintiff" or "A grievance"
In a court of law the word "THE" is always used as opposed to the abstraction "A"
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@Greyparrot
as opposed to the abstraction "A"
ok, so you don't like indefinite articles
"THE LAW" is itself an abstraction stuffed to the gills with even more abstractions than you can count
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@Greyparrot
If the metric of a free speech violation is any government seizure, then every government seizure is a constitutional violation.
I’ve explained this multiple times throughout this thread.
The metric has nothing to do with “any government seizure”. You made that up.
The metric is when the government retaliates against any individual or entity who has free speech as a direct result of their use of it.
Let’s try this another way:
1. Government passes Law X
2. ABC Corp criticizes the government for Law X
3. The government takes adverse action against ABC Corp because of its criticism of Law X
This is the classic example of a free speech violation. Do you understand?