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the beliefs and some  comments in this thread
#1 It's recorded in Matthew 10:34 that Jesus says:"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the  earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Jesus, in my view[,………………………………...]
I think part of the answer lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about. Obviously it is a metaphorical sword, but the Greek word here is a dagger. Not a great big swashbuckling broad sword, but a short dagger. #34



I don’t agree. There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament BIBLE that shows anything contrary to what Matthew 10:34 actually states and means. And, there are many other verses that clearly show that Jesus ‘ appearance in Palestine as a king returned to claim his throne and title would create conflict/war with Rome, it was unavoidable, which in turn would create division of opinions within the family. These difference of opinions would, as Jesus himself admits, set “'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
You see, there is no doubt that the reason for this is simple. Generations of Jews at the time had been Hellenised after centuries of influence under the Greek rule and their gods (weren’t even the gospels recorded in Greek?). So here we had an older generation still aligned to or hadn’t forgotten their Old Testament god Yahweh while the younger generations were not; “the children of Israel had gone astray”..
The BIBLE clearly tells us that Jesus’ “mission” was to unite those Jews that had been “lost” Matthew 15:24 under one god and one rule.

   In short Jesus was building an army. And I believe there is evidence in the New Testament that does go some way in proving this. And, as with all ends of conflict, there would be the peace under one god and one rule and Jesus believed himself to be the man to bring this peace about. This is a recurring pattern throughout the whole of the BIBLE….. if not the whole of history. Many Jews were happy with the situation under Greek rule as were many happy under Babylonian rule so much so many decided to remain in Babylon and many were full and active members of Babylonian society. After some 70+ years many Jews prospered. It is easy to imagine that many second and third generation Jewish Babylonians had no interest in leaving. As were many happy with the status quo under Roman rule and didn’t want any self proclaimed pretender king upsetting it:

John 11:48
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Indeed.

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Stephen,

MISS TRADESECRET 12 YEAR OLD GIRL QUOTE IN POST #6 AND #7 IN HER PITIFUL “PEACE OR SWORD” THREAD: “It is clear that Jesus usage of the term "sword" is metaphorical not literal”

Miss Tradesecret's Bible stupidity  erroneously states in her quote above that Jesus' sword was metaphorical, NOT!

As we have seen so many times since this Bible fool Miss Tradesecret has been upon this forum, she Satanically tries to rewrite the scriptures at her expense!  In Jesus being the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, and in Him using the term “sword,” He meant it to be as intended, a sword to kill as the following “inspired by Jesus passages show below:"

“Then said he (Jesus) unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. When they which were about him saw what would follow, ………. they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. (Luke 22:36-38, 49-50,)

“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the Lord of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.” (Zechariah 13:7)

“And my wrath will burn, and I will kill you with the sword, and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless.” (Exodus 22:24)

“If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword; he has bent and readied his bow;” (Psalm 7:12)

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34)

“When they blew the 300 trumpets, the Lord set every man's sword against his comrade and against all the army. And the army fled as far as Beth-shittah toward Zererah, as far as the border of Abel-meholah, by Tabbath.” (Judges 7:22)

“He gave his people over to the sword and vented his wrath on his heritage.” (Psalm 78:22)

“And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:38)

“Then they said, “The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Please let us go a three days' journey into the wilderness that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest he fall upon us with pestilence or with the sword.”  (Exodus 5:3)


The 12 year old girl Miss Tradesecret looks to be on the run again in not responding to my over abundance of posts to her in the following thread https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7337-how-do-you-know-the-bible-is-true?page=15 and within her embarrassing thread of "Peace or Sword" as well.  Whats new? NOTHING! 


When will the young girl child Miss Tradesecret ever learn that she is always shown to be the #1 Bible fool of this Religion Forum?!

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Indeed Brother D.  This was no "metaphorical sword" . 

The expected king messiah(warrior king) was one that was supposed to free then Jews from the Roman yoke and there was no way he was going to do that using such language as "render unto Caesar" (Mark 12:17) .  Hearing words such as this must have sent the Galilean zealots into a complete frenzy. As is clear from scripture it was from Galilean population that these Jewish nationalists/zealots come from and that Jesus drew his following from.
 
 But then the NT does mention that even his closest didn't understand what he was saying and doing half the time; when he worked  and spoke in secret most of the time. Also understandable  considering that he was in the middle of building a resistance force and considering he had come to reclaim  a  throne that someone else happened to be sitting on at the time and  put in place by Rome.  It was imperative that he keep who he was,  and  his what his mission was secret until "his time had come".  Not to mention that he was forever telling people not to mention what he had said or done . Indeed, he told those said to be closest to him, his inner circle, " I send you out a sheep among wolves  so "be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves":    that is saying stay alert, it is also saying be  two faced & crafty in modern English.

Interesting is not Brother D. that Jesus attributes "wisdom"  to the serpent? 

Some even asked "Others said,  “How can the Messiah come from Galilee?" (John 7:41) Well it's because Jesus was also a Jewish nationalist as was John the Baptist.

 Scripture has Jesus' centre of operations in Bethany & Galilee was where he performed  his so called "miracles".

So called "Miracles" such as  water into wine, healing the sick, sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to voiceless, raising the dead. All performed in Galilee. And were anything but "Miracles".  In truth these "miracles were nothing more than initiations rites into the ranks of Jesus' following.





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@BrotherD.Thomas
Combined with my comments above in my op &,#3 Brother D. there is this question that needs to be addressed.

How many people did it take to arrest one man that Christians  insist was simply only a man preaching peace on earth , to turn the other cheek, love thy neighbour and give to the "poor"? That is said to have had healed the sick, made the blind see, the deaf hear and the dead comeback to life? And all deemed by Christians. to have been "miracles" performed  by Jesus?


Luke 22:47 KJV And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
The KJV bible dictionary defines - multitude as;

1. The state of being many; a great number.
2. A number collectively; the sum of many.
3. A great number, indefinitely.


So this isn't just a small group of elders and and few Roman soldiers. They appear to have been expecting some serious resistance from this man of peace and love and his small band of 12 minus 1 Judas.                                            


In other bibles the multitude is referred to as a " cohort", which in ancient Rome was a military unit, comprising six centuries, equal to one tenth of a legion with  1 legion compromising of  between some 5,300 - 6,000 men.

John 18:12 So the Roman cohort and the commander and the officers of the Jews, arrested Jesus and bound Him, NASB, LEB


Over kill doesn't even cover it. Unless of course, Jesus was Lord and commander of quite a large  resistance force.





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Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE WHERE JESUS, AS YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE, COULD HAVE RELEASED A GREAT RESPONSE IN BEING ARRESTED, BUT DIDN'T: "John 18:12 So the Roman cohort and the commander and the officers of the Jews, arrested Jesus and bound Him, NASB, LEB"

What I have never understood, is the biblical axiom of Jesus being god of the Old Testament horrors and killing by Him, in why He didn't release His power of the Old Testament in killing anyone that tried to arrest Him with a lightening bolt, hail, throwing the arrestor into a burning bush. etc. In other words, if Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate, can kill His entire creation in a Great Flood, including innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies, then why didn't He kill ALL of the Roman soldiers and free Himself to continue to preach His word?

If the 12 year old Miss Tradesecret didn't have to RUN AWAY in embarrassment that we and the membership easily gave her of late, we can only wonder in how she would respond with yet another apologetic spin to your topic!  You have to admit, she did make us laugh with her outright Bible stupidity all the time! LOL!

.


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Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

As mentioned, the sword in this verse was by no means a sword of the metorphorcle kind.

Leaving the question why would Jesus have all his followers buy weapons even if it meant selling the clothes from their backs?

 The bible clearly states that before Jesus came on the scene they appear to have had only two swords to rub together between them. As we read further from Luke's gospel:

Luke 22:36-38

The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.

"Not enough"!? says the - turn the other cheek - Prince of Peace. What was he expecting? A war? 
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When you work out the real meaning of said versus
We can simply scratch them versus out and paste the true  ( tell it like it is, straight forward meaning version  ) no scriptures

A most agreed upon simple meaning. 
You have to totally get rid of the old scripture versus otherwise people will start trying to translate them again.  

Can all scriptures be ummmmm deciphered. ?  And put in a straightforward simplified text. 

Surely one scripture cant have two or more correct meanings.  

I think i can give a incorrect "  meaning of a scripture "  and know i am correct in saying it is incorrect.    
But knowing when you translated a scripture correctly.  Well.... 


 

14 days later

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#1 It's recorded in Matthew 10:34 that Jesus says:"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the  earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Jesus, in my view[,………………………………...]
I think part of the answer lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about. Obviously it is a metaphorical sword, but the Greek word here is a dagger. Not a great big swashbuckling broad sword, but a short dagger. #34
I don’t agree. There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament BIBLE that shows anything contrary to what Matthew 10:34 actually states and means.
Just for the record, can I assume you DID read my words, when I said "I think part of the answer" lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about?  Part of the answer implies ABSOLUTELY it is not the whole of the answer.  Still, you disagree. That is your prerogative. 

And, there are many other verses that clearly show that Jesus ‘ appearance in Palestine as a king returned to claim his throne and title would create conflict/war with Rome, it was unavoidable, which in turn would create division of opinions within the family.
Would you like to cite some please?  You did say "many other verses" so we must assume more than 4 or 5. 

These difference of opinions would, as Jesus himself admits, set “'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
Are you suggesting that EVEN if Jesus was not setting up an army that these opinions would do the same thing?  Or are you saying that ONLY if Jesus is setting up an army that these opinions would do as Jesus indicated? 

You see, there is no doubt that the reason for this is simple. Generations of Jews at the time had been Hellenised after centuries of influence under the Greek rule and their gods (weren’t even the gospels recorded in Greek?). So here we had an older generation still aligned to or hadn’t forgotten their Old Testament god Yahweh while the younger generations were not; “the children of Israel had gone astray”..
The BIBLE clearly tells us that Jesus’ “mission” was to unite those Jews that had been “lost” Matthew 15:24 under one god and one rule.
Where is your evidence that there is a difference between the older and the younger generations of Israel? I would have thought that the older generation were just as gone astray as the younger one.  After all, prior to Jesus, God had been silent for 400 years.  I don't have an issue with Israel being Hellenized but to suggest that there is a generational gap is "reaching". 

Also Matthew 15:24 unhelpful for you.  It only tells us that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel not what his mission was. It certainly provides no information about Jesus "uniting the Jews".  It is not so CLEAR as you would so exaggerate. 

In short Jesus was building an army. And I believe there is evidence in the New Testament that does go some way in proving this.
LOL! with two swords.  What an amazing army that would be.  I can't wait for you to prove this one Steve. 

And, as with all ends of conflict, there would be the peace under one god and one rule and Jesus believed himself to be the man to bring this peace about. This is a recurring pattern throughout the whole of the BIBLE….. if not the whole of history.
You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie.  

Many Jews were happy with the situation under Greek rule as were many happy under Babylonian rule so much so many decided to remain in Babylon and many were full and active members of Babylonian society. After some 70+ years many Jews prospered. It is easy to imagine that many second and third generation Jewish Babylonians had no interest in leaving. As were many happy with the status quo under Roman rule and didn’t want any self proclaimed pretender king upsetting it:
This is a good statement and one I fully agree with.  But I would go further back.  Remember in the desert. The Jews wanted to go back to Egypt, didn't they? And I suspect that if we were to get ourselves a time machine and go back to Noah's flood, that if we were a fly on the wall, and were listening to Noah's family, that one of the sons and or daughters were probably saying, "Why can't we just go back to how things used to be?"  

It is simply part of human life isn't it?  We don't like change. Especially if it is confrontational or hard.  We prefer the ways of humanism over the ways of God.  So why in the world would we not think that the Jews in Jesus day would be any different? 

John 11:48
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Indeed.

Yep, two swords.  To start an army.  Way to go Steve. 



24 days later

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#1 It's recorded in Matthew 10:34 that Jesus says:"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the  earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Jesus, in my view[,………………………………...]
I think part of the answer lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about. Obviously it is a metaphorical sword, but the Greek word here is a dagger. Not a great big swashbuckling broad sword, but a short dagger. #34
I don’t agree. There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament BIBLE that shows anything contrary to what Matthew 10:34 actually states and means.
Just for the record, can I assume you DID read my words, when I said "I think part of the answer" lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about?  Part of the answer implies ABSOLUTELY it is not the whole of the answer.  Still, you disagree. That is your prerogative. 

And, there are many other verses that clearly show that Jesus ‘ appearance in Palestine as a king returned to claim his throne and title would create conflict/war with Rome, it was unavoidable, which in turn would create division of opinions within the family.
Would you like to cite some please?  You did say "many other verses" so we must assume more than 4 or 5. 

These difference of opinions would, as Jesus himself admits, set “'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
Are you suggesting that EVEN if Jesus was not setting up an army that these opinions would do the same thing?  Or are you saying that ONLY if Jesus is setting up an army that these opinions would do as Jesus indicated? 

You see, there is no doubt that the reason for this is simple. Generations of Jews at the time had been Hellenised after centuries of influence under the Greek rule and their gods (weren’t even the gospels recorded in Greek?). So here we had an older generation still aligned to or hadn’t forgotten their Old Testament god Yahweh while the younger generations were not; “the children of Israel had gone astray”..
The BIBLE clearly tells us that Jesus’ “mission” was to unite those Jews that had been “lost” Matthew 15:24 under one god and one rule.
Where is your evidence that there is a difference between the older and the younger generations of Israel? I would have thought that the older generation were just as gone astray as the younger one.  After all, prior to Jesus, God had been silent for 400 years.  I don't have an issue with Israel being Hellenized but to suggest that there is a generational gap is "reaching". 

Also Matthew 15:24 unhelpful for you.  It only tells us that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel not what his mission was. It certainly provides no information about Jesus "uniting the Jews".  It is not so CLEAR as you would so exaggerate. 

In short Jesus was building an army. And I believe there is evidence in the New Testament that does go some way in proving this.
LOL! with two swords.  What an amazing army that would be.  I can't wait for you to prove this one Steve. 

And, as with all ends of conflict, there would be the peace under one god and one rule and Jesus believed himself to be the man to bring this peace about. This is a recurring pattern throughout the whole of the BIBLE….. if not the whole of history.
You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie.  

Many Jews were happy with the situation under Greek rule as were many happy under Babylonian rule so much so many decided to remain in Babylon and many were full and active members of Babylonian society. After some 70+ years many Jews prospered. It is easy to imagine that many second and third generation Jewish Babylonians had no interest in leaving. As were many happy with the status quo under Roman rule and didn’t want any self proclaimed pretender king upsetting it:
This is a good statement and one I fully agree with.  But I would go further back.  Remember in the desert. The Jews wanted to go back to Egypt, didn't they? And I suspect that if we were to get ourselves a time machine and go back to Noah's flood, that if we were a fly on the wall, and were listening to Noah's family, that one of the sons and or daughters were probably saying, "Why can't we just go back to how things used to be?"  

It is simply part of human life isn't it?  We don't like change. Especially if it is confrontational or hard.  We prefer the ways of humanism over the ways of God.  So why in the world would we not think that the Jews in Jesus day would be any different? 

John 11:48
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Indeed.

Yep, two swords.  To start an army.  Way to go Steve. 

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#1 It's recorded in Matthew 10:34 that Jesus says:"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the  earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Jesus, in my view[,………………………………...]
I think part of the answer lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about. Obviously it is a metaphorical sword, but the Greek word here is a dagger. Not a great big swashbuckling broad sword, but a short dagger. #34
I don’t agree. There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament BIBLE that shows anything contrary to what Matthew 10:34 actually states and means.
Just for the record, can I assume you DID read my words, when I said "I think part of the answer" lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about?  Part of the answer implies ABSOLUTELY it is not the whole of the answer.  Still, you disagree. That is your prerogative. 

And, there are many other verses that clearly show that Jesus ‘ appearance in Palestine as a king returned to claim his throne and title would create conflict/war with Rome, it was unavoidable, which in turn would create division of opinions within the family.
Would you like to cite some please?  You did say "many other verses" so we must assume more than 4 or 5. 

These difference of opinions would, as Jesus himself admits, set “'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
Are you suggesting that EVEN if Jesus was not setting up an army that these opinions would do the same thing?  Or are you saying that ONLY if Jesus is setting up an army that these opinions would do as Jesus indicated? 

You see, there is no doubt that the reason for this is simple. Generations of Jews at the time had been Hellenised after centuries of influence under the Greek rule and their gods (weren’t even the gospels recorded in Greek?). So here we had an older generation still aligned to or hadn’t forgotten their Old Testament god Yahweh while the younger generations were not; “the children of Israel had gone astray”..
The BIBLE clearly tells us that Jesus’ “mission” was to unite those Jews that had been “lost” Matthew 15:24 under one god and one rule.
Where is your evidence that there is a difference between the older and the younger generations of Israel? I would have thought that the older generation were just as gone astray as the younger one.  After all, prior to Jesus, God had been silent for 400 years.  I don't have an issue with Israel being Hellenized but to suggest that there is a generational gap is "reaching". 

Also Matthew 15:24 unhelpful for you.  It only tells us that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel not what his mission was. It certainly provides no information about Jesus "uniting the Jews".  It is not so CLEAR as you would so exaggerate. 

In short Jesus was building an army. And I believe there is evidence in the New Testament that does go some way in proving this.
LOL! with two swords.  What an amazing army that would be.  I can't wait for you to prove this one Steve. 

And, as with all ends of conflict, there would be the peace under one god and one rule and Jesus believed himself to be the man to bring this peace about. This is a recurring pattern throughout the whole of the BIBLE….. if not the whole of history.
You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie.  

Many Jews were happy with the situation under Greek rule as were many happy under Babylonian rule so much so many decided to remain in Babylon and many were full and active members of Babylonian society. After some 70+ years many Jews prospered. It is easy to imagine that many second and third generation Jewish Babylonians had no interest in leaving. As were many happy with the status quo under Roman rule and didn’t want any self proclaimed pretender king upsetting it:
This is a good statement and one I fully agree with.  But I would go further back.  Remember in the desert. The Jews wanted to go back to Egypt, didn't they? And I suspect that if we were to get ourselves a time machine and go back to Noah's flood, that if we were a fly on the wall, and were listening to Noah's family, that one of the sons and or daughters were probably saying, "Why can't we just go back to how things used to be?"  

It is simply part of human life isn't it?  We don't like change. Especially if it is confrontational or hard.  We prefer the ways of humanism over the ways of God.  So why in the world would we not think that the Jews in Jesus day would be any different? 

John 11:48
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Indeed.

Yep, two swords.  To start an army.  Way to go Steve. 


21 days later

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@Stephen
#1 It's recorded in Matthew 10:34 that Jesus says:"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the  earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Jesus, in my view[,………………………………...]
I think part of the answer lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about. Obviously it is a metaphorical sword, but the Greek word here is a dagger. Not a great big swashbuckling broad sword, but a short dagger. #34
I don’t agree. There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament BIBLE that shows anything contrary to what Matthew 10:34 actually states and means.
Just for the record, can I assume you DID read my words, when I said "I think part of the answer" lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about?  Part of the answer implies ABSOLUTELY it is not the whole of the answer.  Still, you disagree. That is your prerogative. 

And, there are many other verses that clearly show that Jesus ‘ appearance in Palestine as a king returned to claim his throne and title would create conflict/war with Rome, it was unavoidable, which in turn would create division of opinions within the family.
Would you like to cite some please?  You did say "many other verses" so we must assume more than 4 or 5. 

These difference of opinions would, as Jesus himself admits, set “'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
Are you suggesting that EVEN if Jesus was not setting up an army that these opinions would do the same thing?  Or are you saying that ONLY if Jesus is setting up an army that these opinions would do as Jesus indicated? 

You see, there is no doubt that the reason for this is simple. Generations of Jews at the time had been Hellenised after centuries of influence under the Greek rule and their gods (weren’t even the gospels recorded in Greek?). So here we had an older generation still aligned to or hadn’t forgotten their Old Testament god Yahweh while the younger generations were not; “the children of Israel had gone astray”..
The BIBLE clearly tells us that Jesus’ “mission” was to unite those Jews that had been “lost” Matthew 15:24 under one god and one rule.
Where is your evidence that there is a difference between the older and the younger generations of Israel? I would have thought that the older generation were just as gone astray as the younger one.  After all, prior to Jesus, God had been silent for 400 years.  I don't have an issue with Israel being Hellenized but to suggest that there is a generational gap is "reaching". 

Also Matthew 15:24 unhelpful for you.  It only tells us that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel not what his mission was. It certainly provides no information about Jesus "uniting the Jews".  It is not so CLEAR as you would so exaggerate. 

In short Jesus was building an army. And I believe there is evidence in the New Testament that does go some way in proving this.
LOL! with two swords.  What an amazing army that would be.  I can't wait for you to prove this one Steve. 

And, as with all ends of conflict, there would be the peace under one god and one rule and Jesus believed himself to be the man to bring this peace about. This is a recurring pattern throughout the whole of the BIBLE….. if not the whole of history.
You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie.  

Many Jews were happy with the situation under Greek rule as were many happy under Babylonian rule so much so many decided to remain in Babylon and many were full and active members of Babylonian society. After some 70+ years many Jews prospered. It is easy to imagine that many second and third generation Jewish Babylonians had no interest in leaving. As were many happy with the status quo under Roman rule and didn’t want any self proclaimed pretender king upsetting it:
This is a good statement and one I fully agree with.  But I would go further back.  Remember in the desert. The Jews wanted to go back to Egypt, didn't they? And I suspect that if we were to get ourselves a time machine and go back to Noah's flood, that if we were a fly on the wall, and were listening to Noah's family, that one of the sons and or daughters were probably saying, "Why can't we just go back to how things used to be?"  

It is simply part of human life isn't it?  We don't like change. Especially if it is confrontational or hard.  We prefer the ways of humanism over the ways of God.  So why in the world would we not think that the Jews in Jesus day would be any different? 

John 11:48
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Indeed.

Yep, two swords.  To start an army.  Way to go Steve. 




#12
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And the lad just keeps on keeping on.  

how many days now?  14 plus 24 plus 21.

That's a lot of days not to have an answer.  Now one might suggest running away, but not Stephen. 

Surely not Stephen. 
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I think I already have. But I promise to go over your questions when I have more time. Anything I cannot prove I will admit to, as I always do.




#14
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I think I already have. But I promise to go over your questions when I have more time. Anything I cannot prove I will admit to, as I always do.
Nope. Not answered. Not even close.  I have repeated this several times. And nothing. 

Will you keep your promise? We will see.  
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MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your religious questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"


YOUR QUOTE TO STEPHEN IN HIM NOT ANSWERING YOUR PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN POSTS IN A TIMELY MANNER: " And the lad just keeps on keeping on.  how many days now?  14 plus 24 plus 21. That's a lot of days not to have an answer.  Now one might suggest running away, but not Stephen. Surely not Stephen."  

You being the "pot" is now calling Stephen the "kettle" in being black, an adage that you use all the time! Whereas, YOU, on the other hand does the same thing to me ad infinitum dear, where to save you from further embarrassment, I will only show a few of the posts that you are still RUNNING AWAY from that I posed to you in your embarrassment!







Jesus, why does the pseudo-christian Miss Tradesecret make it so easy for me to BIBLE SLAP HER SILLY®️ all the time in front of the membership and you? 


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YOUR QUOTE TO STEPHEN IN HIM NOT ANSWERING YOUR PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN POSTS IN A TIMELY MANNER: " And the lad just keeps on keeping on.  how many days now?  14 plus 24 plus 21. That's a lot of days not to have an answer.  Now one might suggest running away, but not Stephen. Surely not Stephen."  

You being the "pot" is now calling Stephen the "kettle" in being black, an adage that you use all the time! Whereas, YOU, on the other hand does the same thing to me ad infinitum dear, where to save you from further embarrassment, I will only show a few of the posts that you are still RUNNING AWAY from that I posed to you in your embarrassment!







Jesus, why does the pseudo-christian Miss Tradesecret make it so easy for me to BIBLE SLAP HER SILLY®️ all the time in front of the membership and you? 

And that is  just your short list, Brother D.
I have a list of my own should I care to remind the bible dunce.
#17
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#1 It's recorded in Matthew 10:34 that Jesus says:"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the  earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Jesus, in my view[,………………………………...]
I think part of the answer lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about. Obviously it is a metaphorical sword, but the Greek word here is a dagger. Not a great big swashbuckling broad sword, but a short dagger. #34
I don’t agree. There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament BIBLE that shows anything contrary to what Matthew 10:34 actually states and means.
Just for the record, can I assume you DID read my words, when I said "I think part of the answer" lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about?  Part of the answer implies ABSOLUTELY it is not the whole of the answer.  Still, you disagree. That is your prerogative. 

And, there are many other verses that clearly show that Jesus ‘ appearance in Palestine as a king returned to claim his throne and title would create conflict/war with Rome, it was unavoidable, which in turn would create division of opinions within the family.
Would you like to cite some please?  You did say "many other verses" so we must assume more than 4 or 5. 

These difference of opinions would, as Jesus himself admits, set “'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
Are you suggesting that EVEN if Jesus was not setting up an army that these opinions would do the same thing?  Or are you saying that ONLY if Jesus is setting up an army that these opinions would do as Jesus indicated? 

You see, there is no doubt that the reason for this is simple. Generations of Jews at the time had been Hellenised after centuries of influence under the Greek rule and their gods (weren’t even the gospels recorded in Greek?). So here we had an older generation still aligned to or hadn’t forgotten their Old Testament god Yahweh while the younger generations were not; “the children of Israel had gone astray”..
The BIBLE clearly tells us that Jesus’ “mission” was to unite those Jews that had been “lost” Matthew 15:24 under one god and one rule.
Where is your evidence that there is a difference between the older and the younger generations of Israel? I would have thought that the older generation were just as gone astray as the younger one.  After all, prior to Jesus, God had been silent for 400 years.  I don't have an issue with Israel being Hellenized but to suggest that there is a generational gap is "reaching". 

Also Matthew 15:24 unhelpful for you.  It only tells us that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel not what his mission was. It certainly provides no information about Jesus "uniting the Jews".  It is not so CLEAR as you would so exaggerate. 

In short Jesus was building an army. And I believe there is evidence in the New Testament that does go some way in proving this.
LOL! with two swords.  What an amazing army that would be.  I can't wait for you to prove this one Steve. 

And, as with all ends of conflict, there would be the peace under one god and one rule and Jesus believed himself to be the man to bring this peace about. This is a recurring pattern throughout the whole of the BIBLE….. if not the whole of history.
You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie.  

Many Jews were happy with the situation under Greek rule as were many happy under Babylonian rule so much so many decided to remain in Babylon and many were full and active members of Babylonian society. After some 70+ years many Jews prospered. It is easy to imagine that many second and third generation Jewish Babylonians had no interest in leaving. As were many happy with the status quo under Roman rule and didn’t want any self proclaimed pretender king upsetting it:
This is a good statement and one I fully agree with.  But I would go further back.  Remember in the desert. The Jews wanted to go back to Egypt, didn't they? And I suspect that if we were to get ourselves a time machine and go back to Noah's flood, that if we were a fly on the wall, and were listening to Noah's family, that one of the sons and or daughters were probably saying, "Why can't we just go back to how things used to be?"  

It is simply part of human life isn't it?  We don't like change. Especially if it is confrontational or hard.  We prefer the ways of humanism over the ways of God.  So why in the world would we not think that the Jews in Jesus day would be any different? 

John 11:48
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Indeed.

Yep, two swords.  To start an army.  Way to go Steve. 





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@Tradesecret
Turning into a right little troll aren't you Reverend  Munchausen. 
#19
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Turning into a right little troll aren't you Reverend  Munchausen. 
nope.  just wanting you to answer. 

#20
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Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE REGARDING THE OBVIOUS OF MISS TRADESECRET BEING THE FORUM'S #1 RUNAWAY FROM BIBLICAL POSTS TO HER: "And that is  just your short list, Brother D.  I have a list of my own should I care to remind the bible dunce."

As the membership and Miss Tradesecret knows, she has to keep running away from biblical posts to her with a myriad of lame little girly EXCUSES to keep her MO of being the #1 Runaway from Jesus' inspired words!   She is only known upon this forum because of being outright Bible stupid, and because of this fact, she is the #1 Runaway from the Bible.

In prayer with Jesus last night, He has informed me through His spirit that He wants me to show this forum an ever growing list of Miss Tradesecrets EXCUSES not to defend His Christianity (Titus 1_9), other than for her to RUN AWAY from it.  Therefore, once again at Miss Tradesecrets expense for the umpteenth time, that growing list will be forthcoming.


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#21
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MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"


Miss Tradesecret, are you going for the record in me making you the continued Bible fool to not address this godly and factual post to you within this thread, where you have been RUNNING AWAY from it for 68 DAYS AND COUNTING!!!!!   https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7473/post-links/321657

Are that SCARED dear? Huh?  Have your "opinions" and not using biblical passages to support your claims run their pitiful course?  Don't you realize that the membership and Jesus are watching you RUNAWAY from what you thought you knew, but didn't when I presented the post to you in the link above relating the topic at hand? 

Now, whisk away the "chicken feathers" around your computer dear, find your keyboard, and respond to the link above, where you don't want to be always known for in what this video represents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7ni7zL8qU


NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN LIKE THE BIBLE DUNCE RUNAWAY MISS TRADESECRET THAT HAS SATANICALLY PAINTED HERSELF INTO ANOTHER CORNER, WILL BE ...?

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She is only known upon this forum because of being outright Bible stupid, and because of this fact, she is the #1 Runaway from the Bible.

I can assure you Brother D. That Tradesecret is known for much, much more than the above mentioned. Being a outright lying narcissist to name a few.
#23
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TS said: “It is clear that Jesus usage of the term "sword" is metaphorical not literal”

Tradesecret's Bible  erroneously states in her quote above that Jesus' sword was metaphorical, NOT!

In Jesus  using the term “sword,” He meant it to be as intended, a sword to kill as the following “inspired by Jesus passages show below:"
Truly you are a marvel.  In my quote referring to Jesus, I am referring to a specific context where Jesus used that term sword. In that context it was and remains metaphorical.  Jesus however uses the term sword at other times in ways that are not metaphorical and clearly to used as a literal non-metaphorical sword. By me saying in the above statement that Jesus is referring to a metaphorical sword is not to deny that it can be used by Jesus or the bible in other ways.  Sometimes your large intelligence just overwhelms me.  LOL!


“Then said he (Jesus) unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. When they which were about him saw what would follow, ………. they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. (Luke 22:36-38, 49-50,)
Is Jesus referring to sword as Metaphorical or not? Aside from the fact that you have run two stories together which are indeed separated by a very important event, it is clear that Peter had a real literal sword with him which he struck of an ear.  I think Jesus' words might be hyperbole - in the sense that he was making a rhetorical flourish - intimating that the "time is at hand - get ready, it is all about to happen", nevertheless, I am open to him literally saying go and buy swords. the event in the middle - which you left out -is where the arrest takes place in the night time - when the time was at hand. Personally I don't think whether Jesus' words referring to sword changes anything - given the context - was it metaphorical or a rhetorical flourish or real literal swords?  I am open to the last. 

“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the Lord of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.” (Zechariah 13:7)
This is OT and is not Jesus speaking. I do think that the language being used is poetical and as such it is not talking about a physical real sword but a metaphorical one - and is referring prophetically to the Christ and his disciples.   

“And my wrath will burn, and I will kill you with the sword, and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless.” (Exodus 22:24)
Again the language is within the context of God smiting the people. The sword is clearly metaphorical - even if it might eventually be delegated to humans in their capacity as governments or invading armies who used real and physical swords.  

“If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword; he has bent and readied his bow;” (Psalm 7:12)
Psalm 7 is clearly a poem and is in the wisdom literature of the bible.  v.10 says my shield is my God.  Is that metaphorical or literal? Metaphorical obviously. 
The usage of sword is being used poetically - metaphorically. 

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34)
Yes, that is my quote above - metaphorical. 

“When they blew the 300 trumpets, the Lord set every man's sword against his comrade and against all the army. And the army fled as far as Beth-shittah toward Zererah, as far as the border of Abel-meholah, by Tabbath.” (Judges 7:22)
This is historical narrative - describing real life events.  These were real army swords.  Not metaphorical.

“He gave his people over to the sword and vented his wrath on his heritage.” (Psalm 78:22)
What translation are you using? My verse says "for they did not believe in God or trust in his inheritance" Psalm 78:22. 


“And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:38)
The disciples had two literal swords in their hands. Not metaphorical. 

“Then they said, “The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Please let us go a three days' journey into the wilderness that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest he fall upon us with pestilence or with the sword.”  (Exodus 5:3)
clearly it is metaphorical in the bigger sense.    In that case- I suspect it was Moses attempting to persuade the Pharaoh to let his people go.    Hyperbole. possibly.  more rhetorical flourish.  Does God ever say he would do this or is Moses simply trying to plead his case - that God would not be happy if Pharaoh refused to let them go.  what it obviously does not mean is that God is going to swing down from heaven and chop up his people with a big sword.  Mind you - there are occasions when God sends angels or his own Levites to do some pretty large killing acts with literal swords. I don't think this is one of those occasions.  


SO my point was and remains exactly the same despite your attempt at special pleading.  

Matthew 10:34 the sword is metaphorical.  In other cases - sometimes metaphorical and sometimes not.   

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@Tradesecret

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MISS TRADESECRET, IT TOOK YOU 69 DAYS TO TRY AND ADDRESS MY POST #2 WITHIN THIS THREAD, WHERE YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY BROKEN DEBATEART'S RECORD FOR RUNNING AWAY FROM A POST TO YOU, HOW EMBARRASSING CAN YOU GET IN FRONT OF THE MEMBERSHIP AND JESUS WITHIN THIS FORUM IN THIS INSTANCE?!

Furthermore, to save you even further embarrassment, I have left off your ungodly acts like I have posted before at the top of my posts to you to save space this time, and you can thank me later for not embarrassing you for said facts being left off.  

Your condition has always been that you think the membership are as biblically dumbfounded as you are, therefore they will not catch your long insidious diatribe upon Jesus using a NON METAPHORICAL SWORD ad infinitum where you want to spin it the other way at your embarrassing expense once again!  LOL! This is why you remain the #1 Bible ignorant and stupid fool within this forum, bar none!


All we have to have is ONE, I repeat, ONE non metaphorical sword to show Jesus as a serial killer, do you understand you dunce of a pseudo-christian woman?  Therefore, you pick ONE the one REAL SWORD passage below by Jesus the Christ in killing His creation and therefore taking away Jesus' modus operandi of being ever loving and forgiving, understood Bible fool?


1.  “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the Lord of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.” (Zechariah 13:7)

2. “And my wrath will burn, and I will kill you with the sword, and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless.” (Exodus 22:24)

3. “If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword; he has bent and readied his bow;” (Psalm 7:12)

4. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34)

5. “When they blew the 300 trumpets, the Lord set every man's sword against his comrade and against all the army. And the army fled as far as Beth-shittah toward Zererah, as far as the border of Abel-meholah, by Tabbath.” (Judges 7:22)

6. “He gave his people over to the sword and vented his wrath on his heritage.” (Psalm 78:22)

7. “And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:38)

8. “Then they said, “The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Please let us go a three days' journey into the wilderness that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest he fall upon us with pestilence or with the sword.”  (Exodus 5:3)


Miss Tradesecret, personally I like #2 in the list above where Jesus will not only KILL the person, but when doing so their wives will become widows and their children fatherless, way to go Jesus,  a man's man, praise!


NOW, IF YOU USE YET MORE LAME GIRLY EXCUSES NOT TO ADDRESS THIS POST THAT MAKES YOU THE BIBLE FOOL AGAIN, THEN IT WILL BE PERCEIVED BY JESUS AND I THAT YOU HAVE RAN OUT OF SATANIC EXCUSES AND THEREFORE ACCEPT THE FACT THAT WE OWN YOUR COMPLETE BIBLE STUPIDITY, BAR NONE!  THANK YOU DEAR!


NEXT?


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#25
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clearly indicated I was referring to Christ's sword in Matthew 10:34 as metaphorical.  Unlike you, I do not see "sword" as some kind of code word for every other usage in the bible.  

Sometimes it is used metaphorically and sometimes it is a real literal sword.  I have no objection to this since it is good sound grammatical sense.  

There is ABSOLUTELY no need to go through further verses in relation to sword.  I don't think every usage of the word sword is metaphorical.  Sometimes it is and sometimes it is not.   In Matthew 10:34, in the place I suggested it was metaphorical, it is and was and will always be.   

It may be that in your paragraph below you are trying to make a point. 

All we have to have is ONE, I repeat, ONE non metaphorical sword to show Jesus as a serial killer, do you understand ?  Therefore, you pick ONE the one REAL SWORD passage below by Jesus the Christ in killing His creation and therefore taking away Jesus' modus operandi of being ever loving and forgiving, ?
Are you suggesting if EVEN if there is one sword that is not metaphorical that this proves Jesus is a killer and therefore does not love and forgive? Is that really your point?  Just out of curiosity, given such a low standard for proof on your part, would even one verse that says Jesus loves us or the world be sufficient to prove he does?  

Surely, even you would not suggest such a thing?  How about you try and reformulate your question.  Of course you don't have too.  I can answer right now and say - one literal sword does not make a person a killer, nor does it make them unloving or able to forgive.   That would simply be a non-sequitur.  I'm sure you understand what that is.  

#26
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#1 It's recorded in Matthew 10:34 that Jesus says:"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the  earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Jesus, in my view[,………………………………...]
I think part of the answer lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about. Obviously it is a metaphorical sword, but the Greek word here is a dagger. Not a great big swashbuckling broad sword, but a short dagger. #34
I don’t agree. There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament BIBLE that shows anything contrary to what Matthew 10:34 actually states and means.
Just for the record, can I assume you DID read my words, when I said "I think part of the answer" lies in the type of sword Jesus is talking about?  Part of the answer implies ABSOLUTELY it is not the whole of the answer.  Still, you disagree. That is your prerogative. 

And, there are many other verses that clearly show that Jesus ‘ appearance in Palestine as a king returned to claim his throne and title would create conflict/war with Rome, it was unavoidable, which in turn would create division of opinions within the family.
Would you like to cite some please?  You did say "many other verses" so we must assume more than 4 or 5. 

These difference of opinions would, as Jesus himself admits, set “'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
Are you suggesting that EVEN if Jesus was not setting up an army that these opinions would do the same thing?  Or are you saying that ONLY if Jesus is setting up an army that these opinions would do as Jesus indicated? 

You see, there is no doubt that the reason for this is simple. Generations of Jews at the time had been Hellenised after centuries of influence under the Greek rule and their gods (weren’t even the gospels recorded in Greek?). So here we had an older generation still aligned to or hadn’t forgotten their Old Testament god Yahweh while the younger generations were not; “the children of Israel had gone astray”..
The BIBLE clearly tells us that Jesus’ “mission” was to unite those Jews that had been “lost” Matthew 15:24 under one god and one rule.
Where is your evidence that there is a difference between the older and the younger generations of Israel? I would have thought that the older generation were just as gone astray as the younger one.  After all, prior to Jesus, God had been silent for 400 years.  I don't have an issue with Israel being Hellenized but to suggest that there is a generational gap is "reaching". 

Also Matthew 15:24 unhelpful for you.  It only tells us that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel not what his mission was. It certainly provides no information about Jesus "uniting the Jews".  It is not so CLEAR as you would so exaggerate. 

In short Jesus was building an army. And I believe there is evidence in the New Testament that does go some way in proving this.
LOL! with two swords.  What an amazing army that would be.  I can't wait for you to prove this one Steve. 

And, as with all ends of conflict, there would be the peace under one god and one rule and Jesus believed himself to be the man to bring this peace about. This is a recurring pattern throughout the whole of the BIBLE….. if not the whole of history.
You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie.  

Many Jews were happy with the situation under Greek rule as were many happy under Babylonian rule so much so many decided to remain in Babylon and many were full and active members of Babylonian society. After some 70+ years many Jews prospered. It is easy to imagine that many second and third generation Jewish Babylonians had no interest in leaving. As were many happy with the status quo under Roman rule and didn’t want any self proclaimed pretender king upsetting it:
This is a good statement and one I fully agree with.  But I would go further back.  Remember in the desert. The Jews wanted to go back to Egypt, didn't they? And I suspect that if we were to get ourselves a time machine and go back to Noah's flood, that if we were a fly on the wall, and were listening to Noah's family, that one of the sons and or daughters were probably saying, "Why can't we just go back to how things used to be?"  

It is simply part of human life isn't it?  We don't like change. Especially if it is confrontational or hard.  We prefer the ways of humanism over the ways of God.  So why in the world would we not think that the Jews in Jesus day would be any different? 

John 11:48
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Luke 22:36King James Version
 Then said he [Jesus] unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Indeed.

Yep, two swords.  To start an army.  Way to go Steve. 


#27
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@Tradesecret


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MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"


YOUR QUOTE OF DESPAIR AND OUTRIGHT IGNORANCE ONCE AGAIN, BIBLE FOOL!:  "Surely, even you would not suggest such a thing?  How about you try and reformulate your question.  Of course you don't have too.  I can answer right now and say - one literal sword does not make a person a killer, nor does it make them unloving or able to forgive.   That would simply be a non-sequitur.  I'm sure you understand what that is."


Miss Tradesecret, to address your inept thinking and Bible stupidity again, as the one God (1 Corinthians 8:6) and where Jesus is that one God (1 Timothy 3:15-16), JESUS SAID:  “And my wrath will burn, "and I will KILL YOU with the sword," and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless.” (Exodus 22:24) In just the FACT that Jesus said this statement is mind-numbing to say the least, and this is the God that we worship and have to accept in Him being the #1 serial killer of all time!

Your comical quote of "one literal sword does not make a person a killer" is laughable upon its face whereas this comes to mind; "Your honor, just because Joe Smith fired a bullet into his wife's heart and killed her, it doesn't mean that Mr. Smith is a killer, isn't that true your honor?"  Miss Tradesecret, your inept thinking capabilities go severely wanting again, and again, and again, in the sense that you do not know in how utterly STUPID you present yourself upon this forum!  ROFLOL!!!!  But, what did we expect from you than being BRAIN STUPID outside of the Bible as well?!



SIDEBAR:  Miss Tradesecret, you have been running away from your admitted SEXUAL DEVIANCY with a multiple of EXCUSES for a long time in my godly posts to you of late in trying to help you eliminate this sickening position you have taken in the name of Satan.  Can you at least give us an update upon this ungodly act of yours, whereas you are seeking help in this disgusting matter, aren't you?  Like you said in glee, you are having sickening sex acts with your family members including uncles and a dad AS YOU PROFFERED BEFORE IN THE LINK BELOW!  Reach out to us because we are all here to help you dear, okay?    

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#28
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Miss Tradesecret, 

IN YOUR POST #26 SHOWS ONE OF THE MOST BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTES YOU HAVE EVER SAID WITHIN THIS FORUM, BAR NONE!:  "You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie."

Jesus is NOT only mentioned in the New Testament, because Jesus is the ONE GOD that existed (Jude 1:25), therefore Jesus is in fact mentioned in the Old Testament as well in being the one god, you  Bible fool Miss Tradesecret!! When will your ever so dumbfounded Bible stupidity ever stop, enough is enough!

ONE GOD:  “To the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.” (Jude 1:25)

JESUS IS THE ONE GOD:  “But in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.” (1 Timothy 3:15-16)

JESUS ADMITS HE IS THE OLD TESTAMENT SERIAL KILLER YAHWEH GOD:  "Jesus answered: "Don"t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, "Show us the Father"? (John 14: 9-)

JESUS IS THEREFORE THE GOD OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS: “In Isaiah 44:6 the LORD (Hebrew Yahweh) refers to himself as “the First and the Last”. In Revelation 1:8 and 17, Jesus similarly refers to himself as “the Alpha and the Omega” and “the First and the Last”.

JESUS IS THE SERIAL KILLER YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE OF THE OLD TESTAMENT: The fact that Jesus Christ is the serial killer Yahweh God can be seen when we compare the following Old Testament verses with the corresponding New Testament verses. Isaiah 40:3 speaks about preparing the way for the LORD (Hebrew Yahweh). When we compare this verse with Mark 1:3  we see that Jesus is the LORD mentioned, who had the way prepared for him by John the Baptist. In Joel 2:32a it says that whoever calls upon the Name of the LORD (Hebrew Yahweh) will be saved. This verse is quoted by Peter in Acts 2:21, and by Paul in Romans 10:13.  Both apostles are referring to Jesus as the LORD in these verses.

In Isaiah 6:1-10 we read about the wonderful vision that Isaiah had revealing the glory of the LORD (Hebrew Yahweh). John tells us in John 12:40-41 that this vision revealed the glory of Jesus. In Isaiah 44:6, the LORD (Hebrew Yahweh) once again, refers to himself as “the First and the Last”. In Revelation 1:8 and 17, Jesus similarly refers to himself as “the Alpha and the Omega” and “the First and the Last”.

In Zechariah 12:10 the LORD (Hebrew Yahweh) speaks and says, “they will look on Me whom they have pierced.”  This is Jesus speaking (Psa. 22:16; John 19:34)! This verse from Zechariah appears again in Revelation 1:7 and is about Jesus Christ. As Yahweh the serial killer, Jesus is eternal, having all the qualities and attributes of God. Even on earth, in human form, Jesus was the image of the invisible God, and the exact representation of God’s nature (Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3). Jesus is not some sort of demigod; rather, the fullness of deity (“God-ness”) dwells in him in bodily form (Col. 2:9). Jesus Christ, born of the virgin Mary, was fully man and fully God, having both a human and divine nature at the same time!

As eternal God, Jesus Christ existed before He came to earth as a human baby in the celestial and  incestual impregnation of His mother Mary by Jesus as God! He existed before the creation of the earth. In fact, Jesus was instrumental in its creation. The Bible says that all things were created by Him, and that nothing was made without Him (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2), although Jesus is not a created being himself.  The Scriptures teach us that there is only one God and we are commanded that we should worship no other serial killer gods (Exodus. 20:3). From Scripture we can see that Jesus Christ is worshipped eternally, further proving his deity  (Phil. 2:10-11; Rev. 5:9-14).


MISS TRADESECRET, THE #1 DUMBFOUNDED OF THE BIBLE INEPT FOOL, IT IS TIME ONCE AGAIN FOR YOU TO TAKE A SELF-IMPOSED EXILE FROM THIS RELIGION FORUM TO BE IN HIDING TO LICK YOUR WOUNDS FROM ME EASILY BIBLE SLAPPING YOU SILLY®️ AGAIN!   WHEREAS, "IF" YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO FREQUENT THIS FORUM ONCE AGAIN IN YOUR TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT, THE MEMBERSHIP AND MYSELF WILL CONTINUE TO EXPOSE YOUR COMPLETE BIBLE IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY ONCE AGAIN AT YOUR EMBARRASSING EXPENSE, DO YOU UNDERSTAND BIBLE STUPID FOOL? YES?

MISS TRADESECRET, BE GONE SATAN INCARNATE!

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#29
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@BrotherD.Thomas
 "Surely, even you would not suggest such a thing?  How about you try and reformulate your question.  Of course you don't have too.  I can answer right now and say - one literal sword does not make a person a killer, nor does it make them unloving or able to forgive.   That would simply be a non-sequitur.  I'm sure you understand what that is."

Tradesecret, to address your inept thinking  as the one God (1 Corinthians 8:6) and where Jesus is that one God (1 Timothy 3:15-16), JESUS SAID:  “And my wrath will burn, "and I will KILL YOU with the sword," and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless.” (Exodus 22:24) In just the FACT that Jesus said this statement is mind-numbing to say the least, and this is the God that we worship and have to accept in Him being the #1 serial killer of all time!

Your comical quote of "one literal sword does not make a person a killer" is laughable upon its face whereas this comes to mind; "Your honor, just because Joe Smith fired a bullet into his wife's heart and killed her, it doesn't mean that Mr. Smith is a killer, isn't that true your honor?"   
Jesus is not a serial killer.  Repeating the same is a repetition and nothing more. It doesn't make it true.  Taking a warning from God to his people to do what is right or to suffer the consequences does not make someone a serial killer.  Any more than the government of America or Australia is monster who warns it will locks up people and steal from them if they break the law.  Any responsible government is going to provide warnings to their people to keep the law.  And also to warn them if they break the law there will be consequences.  

The context of these verses demonstrate that God is warning his people to treat vulnerable people with favor and not badly.  He is further saying that if they don't receive justice from the government of the day, that he will rise up and bring justice.  In this case - an eye for an eye which is justice.  If they treat the vulnerable people badly, then they can expect their vulnerable people to be treated badly.  So to suggest that a warning is anything than a warning is simply stretching the truth.   




#30
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@BrotherD.Thomas
"You do realize that Jesus was only mentioned in the NT.  So to call it a recurring theme throughout the bible is nonsense.  Let alone history.  Jesus is not interested in peace under God so much as he is interested in peace with God.   You need to get with the bigger picture here Stevie."

Jesus is NOT only mentioned in the New Testament, because Jesus is the ONE GOD that existed (Jude 1:25), therefore Jesus is in fact mentioned in the Old Testament as well in being the one god. 
Brother, enough is enough.  Stephen agrees that Jesus is not mentioned in the OT like every atheist on this planet.   He could not be mentioned in the OT because he was not born then.  I happened to ask Stephen if he would call you out on this and he like always, rationalized it away.  

Now to your thoughts that since Jesus is God and since there is only ONE God, Jesus must have been mentioned in the OT.   I suppose you could be right.  But I also think you might be pushing the line too far.  Jesus himself does suggest that he is referred to the in the OT. He said as much on the road to Emmaus when talking to the two disciples after his resurrection from the dead in Luke.  Jesus obviously was referring to himself, not that his name is ever mentioned since Jesus had not yet been born nor given his name yet. 

The question hence is how can Jesus be referring to himself without the actual usage of his name?  God is One.  Yet God is three.  The Trinity.  Jesus is commonly equated with the Son, the second person of the Trinity.  Yet Jesus on the road to Emmaus was not referring to himself as God. He was referring to himself as the messiah and indicating that the OT expressed that the messiah needed to die and to be raised from the dead and that this would be the means by which he would restore humanity to God. 

The intriguing thing is that Jesus is never mentioned in the OT by his name.  

The other thing which I need to address is this.  You take the silly view that God is a serial killer.   You can't prove it. Yes, you try very hard but you fall down at every hurdle.  Then you insist that Jesus is a serial killer.  Again, there simply is no evidence suggesting so.  Since you can't find anything in the NT - that Jesus is a serial killer, you then take the delightfully wonderful and accurate position that Jesus is God and since you believe it is easy to prove God is a serial killer in the OT, that you have a gotcha moment.   

But the amusing thing is this.  You can't prove God is a serial killer.  Yet, God put lots of people to death - in judgment - say the time of Noah's flood as just one example.  But ordering people to death as judgment does not make someone a serial killer.  I do believe Jesus is God.   I don't have an issue with that.  Jesus of course was still only born in the NT.   The Son of course was in the OT and even before that - in eternity.  The bible says the Christ was slain before the foundation of the earth.  

So there you have it.  

I am prepared that Jesus is God.  

But I am not prepared to your silly statement about God being a serial killer.