When both sides got owned by Trump

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 52
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
The left: Trump is tough on immigration.  This is horrible and racist.  No human being is illegal.

The right: Trump is tough on immigration.  This is putting America first and patriotic.  Build the wall.

Me: Trump isn't even tough on immigration; he's deported less people per year than Biden and Obama.  If you're going to praise or criticize Mr. Rich Orange Man, at least have your reason be accurate.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Me: Trump isn't even tough on immigration; he's deported less people per year than Biden and Obama.  If you're going to praise or criticize Mr. Rich Orange Man, at least have your reason be accurate.
Have you considered that the reason for that is less people came in the first place because of the deterrence he showed?
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,596
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
I have no problem with Trump bringing  Slovenian strippers into the country ( and making them First Lady's).

11/18/19 -The Trump administration has deported fewer overall people than were deported under former President Obama despite the ongoing crackdown on immigrants without legal status, according to the Washington Post.
While the Obama administration deported 1.18 million people in his first three years, the number of deportations has been a little under 800,000 so far under Trump, according to the Post.
The Obama administration also deported 409,849 people in 2012 alone, while the Trump administration has yet to deport more than 260,000 people in a year, the Post reported.
The Post noted it was unclear why there have been fewer deportations under Trump.

TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ILikePie5
If you measure deportation numbers by the proportion of undocumented immigrants in the US that got deported in a year, Trump still deports less than Obama(Deportation Rates in Historical Perspective | Cato at Liberty Blog)
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@FLRW
I have no problem with Trump bringing  Slovenian strippers into the country ( and making them First Lady's).
Does Trump's big dick need all that pussy?

The Post noted it was unclear why there have been fewer deportations under Trump.
Because Trump was born in Queens, a borough that is 45% immigrant and he knows how to appeal to the GOP protectionist base.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
If you measure deportation numbers by the proportion of undocumented immigrants in the US that got deported in a year, Trump still deports less than Obama(Deportation Rates in Historical Perspective | Cato at Liberty Blog)

Have you considered that various states actively prevented federal deportations under Trump? States like California didn’t notify ICE and wouldn’t hand them over.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Guess we will see when the rinos and dems lose Congress to MAGA candidates in 2022.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
It's sad people still talk about this goofball, just let him be a nobody trashbag that accidentally got let into the white house because overall that's what he was.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Have you considered that various states actively prevented federal deportations under Trump? States like California didn’t notify ICE and wouldn’t hand them over.
Why would California do this to Trump and not to Obama?  I thought people still got deported in California under Trump and Obama.

That might be a lurking variable, but it's still expected that Trump would deport more than Obama and Biden per year.

I don't think we should deport anyone, so I'm glad Trump didn't deport as many people.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Why would California do this to Trump and not to Obama? 
Lots of reasons. Immigration wasn’t that big of an issue back then. Deporting illegal immigrants wasn’t controversial when Obama was President. 

But when Trump does it, Orangeman bad. We aren’t going to cooperate with them.

I thought people still got deported in California under Trump and Obama.
Not to the same degree. Add Illinois and New York and you get even more. 

That might be a lurking variable, but it's still expected that Trump would deport more than Obama and Biden per year.
Not really, because as I mentioned, there was zero cooperation from Democratic states. And the number of people that came across the border declined massively for Biden.

I don't think we should deport anyone, so I'm glad Trump didn't deport as many people.
Well maybe you should go to practically any other country illegal. We’ll see what happens to you lol.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Lots of reasons. Immigration wasn’t that big of an issue back then. Deporting illegal immigrants wasn’t controversial when Obama was President. 

But when Trump does it, Orangeman bad. We aren’t going to cooperate with them.
Obama got plenty criticized when he deported people.  Biden also gets criticized for it.  But it's possible that the reason Trump deported less people was due to states not coorperating.

Well maybe you should go to practically any other country illegal. We’ll see what happens to you lol.
Other countries don't have liberty and small government as their ethos; America does.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Obama got plenty criticized when he deported people.  Biden also gets criticized for it.  But it's possible that the reason Trump deported less people was due to states not coorperating.
During Obama’s presidency? Definitely not. Like I said. Immigration wasn’t controversial during Obama times. Trump was the one who campaigned on immigration, and because Orangeman bad, it became controversial.

Other countries don't have liberty and small government as their ethos; America does.
So rather than changing their own countries, they should just come to ours? Essentially you’re saying we should accept billions of people (hint: we don’t have room for that many)
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ILikePie5
So rather than changing their own countries
Are you really expecting an immigrant from China to organize a group within China to dismantle it's communism?  It would be easier, and better for the US economy if every single undocumented immigrant settled in a blue county.

 Essentially you’re saying we should accept billions of people (hint: we don’t have room for that many)
Billions of people don't want to come to America, but if 1.2 billion extra people entered America, our overall population density is still about half that of England, and I wouldn't call England that overcrowded.  America won't overcrowd with a bunch of anti China undocumented immigrants coming here.

Communist big government China is tough on immigration.  Capitalist small government America shouldn't be.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,596
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Are you really expecting an immigrant from China to organize a group within China to dismantle it's communism? 
Yes

It would be easier, and better for the US economy if every single undocumented immigrant settled in a blue county.
No it wouldn’t, because it’s impossible.

Billions of people don't want to come to America, but if 1.2 billion extra people entered America, our overall population density is still about half that of England, and I wouldn't call England that overcrowded.  America won't overcrowd with a bunch of anti China undocumented immigrants coming here.
They would if they had the opportunity to. Risks far outweigh rewards if you’re in Africa rn for example. Also, what makes you think immigrants will be anti-China lol. Most countries rely on trade with China

Communist big government China is tough on immigration.  Capitalist small government America shouldn't be.

Immigration isn’t a mutually exclusive topic with respect to economic ideology
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Are you really expecting an immigrant from China to organize a group within China to dismantle it's communism? 
Yes
This would be akin to you travelling to China to dismantle communism.

No individual can dismantle communism, so it's better if the anti communist Chinese came over here.

It would be easier, and better for the US economy if every single undocumented immigrant settled in a blue county.
No it wouldn’t, because it’s impossible.
It's possible.  I made a spreadsheet proving it.

Also, what makes you think immigrants will be anti-China lol. Most countries rely on trade with China
People move to places they like.  If China was their favorite country, they would move to China.  But more people move to America than any other country because America is the best country God ever created.

Immigration isn’t a mutually exclusive topic with respect to economic ideology
So you want to copy communist China?  If so, your a communist.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
This would be akin to you travelling to China to dismantle communism.

No individual can dismantle communism, so it's better if the anti communist Chinese came over here.
No it wouldn’t, because I’m American by birth. I never said an individual can dismantle communism. I said it’s a group effort.

It's possible.  I made a spreadsheet proving it.
Blue cities are already overcrowded as they are. Your spreadsheet is 100% inaccurate and contains flaws. There’s no way you fit a billion people in blue cities.

People move to places they like.  If China was their favorite country, they would move to China.  But more people move to America than any other country because America is the best country God ever created.
Liking the United States =/= disliking China. You seem to have a problem with theories based on mutual exclusiveness.

So you want to copy communist China?  If so, your a communist.
Strawman. I said the people of China need to get rid of communism in China. I never said I support communism, nor would I want communism.
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@FLRW
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
So are you of the persuasion that a poem from some subpar author should influence our immigration and refugee policies?
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,596
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@bmdrocks21

Well, since it is on the Statue of Liberty, yes.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@bmdrocks21
Isn't the statue of Liberty a French gift? Our immigration policy is nowhere near as sane or sound as France's immigration. Seems like we should ask the French for a real poem to go along with the statue they gave us since America is so incompetent at making statues and poems.
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,169
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Greyparrot
You haven't been keeping up with France have you? They are basically admitting even on the left that they almost destroyed the republic by allowing so many Muslims in who aren't interested in subordinating sharia to the declaration of the rights of man and of the citizen.
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@FLRW
Well, since it is on the Statue of Liberty, yes.

Well it is on the Statue of Liberty, not the Statue of immigration. So, I don't see the connection there.

Also, if the plaque was changed to calls for an entire immigration moratorium, would you then flip your entire position to be anti-immigration as a result of its presence on the statue?
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Isn't the statue of Liberty a French gift? Our immigration policy is nowhere near as sane or sound as France's immigration. Seems like we should ask the French for a real poem to go along with the statue they gave us since America is so incompetent at making statues and poems.

It was a gift for to commemorate our independence from Britain, not a statue trying to guilt us into taking in every poor person that wants to be here. But, the historical revisionists won't acknowledge that, of course.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Honestly, America could benefit greatly from a Muslim invasion. We cant even  define what a woman is in legal terms.
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,169
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Greyparrot
Honestly, America could benefit greatly from a Muslim invasion. We cant even  define what a woman is in legal terms.
Most of us can, and the more a certain party is dominated by people who can't the more certain is its downfall. This focus on insane social claims is extremely relieving to me, as long as sex ed for 3rd graders is tied to regulation and taxation (via the silly binding of party platform) I can be confident that regulation and taxation will go down in flames in the next few years... and if it doesn't well there wasn't much hope was there.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@bmdrocks21
@TheUnderdog
Depends upon how one chooses to define deportation.

If you just mean regularly sending the same people back across the Mexican border, then numbers will  be relative to how my times in a year someone can be bothered to try and cross.

It's probably a bit of a game for some.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@bmdrocks21
Our independence.
How old are you then.....250?


And despite Independence, and depending upon where in time one chooses to stick ones pin....Then most or all of you are the descendants of immigrants.

Same as just about everywhere really.

Remember the past.....Forget the past.....Which ever suits the moment I suppose.
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@zedvictor4
If you just mean regularly sending the same people back across the Mexican border, then numbers will  be relative to how my times in a year someone can be bothered to try and cross.
Perhaps we can start kneecapping repeat offenders


And despite Independence, and depending upon where in time one chooses to stick ones pin....Then most or all of you are the descendants of immigrants.
I don’t see how that’s relevant. It might be if I proposed putting a limit of 0 on immigration for as long as the nation continued to survive, but I don’t.

A good 20-to-40-year moratorium would do it, then we can let in more immigrants 🙂

You’re a Brit, right, Zed? We don’t want every city here being Londonistan. Time to stop the mass immigration for a bit

FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,596
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Oh, look, the republican Satanists are out. We don't want to help any poor people. We want to give all our money to a fat, low IQ, rich person who had 3 wives just like Jesus.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,596
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Has anybody bought Trump's new picture book that he is advertising on Fox? Why do you think that it is all pictures?