Those who seek enlightenment, can achieve it in this thread. I offer you, what you seek. I will give you the rest your mind requires. Ask me questions about how to achieve enlightenment, and I will answer them.
Choose enlightenment
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38
I'll bite.
What is enlightenment and how do I achieve it?
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@Swagnarok
It's a state that happens after ego death. Ego death can occur without it, but many refer to the state as hypersanity. Kind of like a character in a show who can break the 4th wall. It is the knowledge of the fact that the world is an illusion, and that "I am" God.
There are artificial means to induce this state like hallucinogens, but it can be achieved naturally as well, which I will explain in my next post when I get a break at work.
You can't just believe you are in an illusion, but you have to understand how far the hallucination extends and what you truly are.
Some will realize the world is an illusion and not reach enlightenment, because they have no ideal their very own thoughts are a part of this demiurge as well.
So who are you? You are the state of awareness that is listening to your thoughts. Once you detach from the world and even your mind, you can feel this awareness and who you really are
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@Incel-chud
Did you come to this realization yourself or did you learn from a teacher/book/website/whatever?
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@Incel-chud
Twins and Identical twins exist.
Enlightenment.
Funny word isn't it.
It sounds wrong to say.
Enlightenment.
One question.
Would the " world " thats like , life as you know, exist without you in it ?
It is a fair question.
Just do you think. Yes or no.
Idk about the 'I am god' thing that's some real new age Buddhist or Hindu-sect stuff.
As for the idea that we are all just reality experiencing itself, I've come across that before and consider that fairly axiomatic (as in irrefutably true, inherently correct).
It's not a new idea and it has truth to it, though I don't personally go to the whole ego death level, in fact I reached that point during a very bad depression I had in my own life. I never want to think like a Buddhist ever again, it makes me want to die to feel at peace. I am not sure who such a mentality is actually healthy for but I would advise a more Taoist approach; we are individuals playing roles in this reality, don't forget that others have their role and matter just like you. It's that simple really.
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@Swagnarok
Did you come to this realization yourself or did you learn from a teacher/book/website/whatever?
It came from a combination of ego death, revelation and a few books I was guided to read through circumstances, such as finding them laying on the side of the road randomly. For example 3 I read over this last 2 week period, one in which I found in the road and rescued it from cars running over it was called the psychology of money, the other is called "The greatest secret" and another is called switch.
Pieces of these books called to me, visions occurred and wired dreams.
These concepts aren't entirely unique. They were revealed and discovered by me, but I believe the concepts can be found in many belief systems and replicate the same process or describe a similar thing using different words.
For example whether you call this world the demiurge, the matrix or Plato's cave it means the same thing. The Bible doesn't have a single name to describe it, but original sin took us out of the garden of Eden and put us in a world that hid from us our divine spark.
We have this knowledge in our collective unconscious. When you are near a Buddhist monk or a priest exhibiting this calming auto that effects you when you are close, it is the same enlightenment that both have attained, with neither aware it is the same thing. The priest of course considering the concept of heaven the real world and escaping the chains of this one.
Of course not all priests or monks achieve this sort of enlightenment. Only a few do.
TLDR: piecing together wired parts of different books over a 73 hour period, visions, ego death and likely a bit of hypomania.
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@RationalMadman
It's not a new idea and it has truth to it, though I don't personally go to the whole ego death level, in fact I reached that point during a very bad depression I had in my own life.
Yes, you are describing an ego death. I experienced the same thing and slipped into about a decade long depression. It was a very bad experience. This new experience is different.
If it happens again, don't be scared of it. Lean into it. Realize you are pure consciousness and that your natural state is one of bliss and creation. That the world no longer matters.
Also, don't repress your negative emotions as a result of whatever caused you to spiral into ego death. Fully feel those emotions. Don't stop feeling them, until feeling them is complete, it is the only way to truly let them go.
That's why a baby can go from crying after a tumble to complete bliss as his mother comforts him. He feels the emotion as fully as possible and it just goes away.
We unlearn this as we get older. The problem with holding onto the emotions is that mind wraiths feed on them, and your own thoughts will keep you in the demiurge. The mind wraiths, want you to suppress your emotions, so they can feed off of them indefinitely.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
One question.Would the " world " thats like , life as you know, exist without you in it ?
I am the alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I am timeless. Without me, reality no longer can exist.
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@Incel-chud
When you mean the world is an illusion - does that include EVERYTHING or just material things? For instance - is enlightenment an illusion or even the idea that "I am a god"? Or are these concepts things that are excluded from being an illusion?
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@Incel-chud
It came from a combination of ego death
From drug use?
and a few books I was guided to read through circumstances
Guided to read? What guided you to do so?
The Bible doesn't have a single name to describe it, but original sin took us out of the garden of Eden and put us in a world that hid from us our divine spark.
This is based on an incorrect reading of Scripture.
Everyone has the Imago Dei but it's tainted by sin. One does not cure the problem of sin through internal processes, as all of the instruments that you might use to do so are inescapably distorted by the sin nature so as to reach no conclusion not informed thereby. As the Bible warns, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked." This is called the doctrine of total depravity, which is often misunderstood.
The solution to the problem of sin is beyond one's self and it is submission to the God who first calls you to Him. Once this happens, God works inside of you in what's called salvation and then sanctification, which superficially resembles the man morally improving himself but its true essence is largely independent of human effort.
The man both saved and sanctified, once both works are finished, is returned to the original design for his being, in which he is a proper son of God, made in the image thereof, and in which the "divine spark" that is his nature as a human son of God manifests as brilliantly and perfectly as it ought to. Until then, however, any effort apart from God to realize the spark and promote its flourishing is nothing more than self-deception.
The Garden of Eden had the status of a "temple", or a designated space set apart where a man beheld God. Man was contextually impure as a result of his sin and had to be made pure before he could return to the temple. As this hadn't yet happened, Adam and his wife were expelled. The place itself, however, never conferred any sort of holiness to man. Only the God who made the temple holy could, but He had to enter the man's heart to do that. If the still impure man externally beheld a holy God, he would have to reckon with his own unholiness, and the penalty was death, both physical and spiritual.
We have this knowledge in our collective unconscious.
What knowledge?
That the world isn't real? Or that our inner potential transcends reality?
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@Tradesecret
When you mean the world is an illusion - does that include EVERYTHING or just material things? For instance - is enlightenment an illusion or even the idea that "I am a god"? Or are these concepts things that are excluded from being an illusion?
It's a tough concept to explain. This is why this esoteric wisdom is often given through imagery, particularly through understanding the qabbalistic tree of life.
All is mind. This means that the world though an illusion is still real. Reality is the thoughts of God pouring out.
It is both real and non physical. To call it an illusion is to reveal that it both hides the divine reality and that it is made up of mind. Non material, masquerading as material existence.
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@Incel-chud
It's a tough concept to explain. This is why this esoteric wisdom is often given through imagery, particularly through understanding the qabbalistic tree of life.
That's not very helpful. Why not try and understand the world from the position that everything is real rather than an illusion?
It almost sounds as though you take the view that deception is a good thing. Or that the powers that be think it is a good thing.
All is mind. This means that the world though an illusion is still real. Reality is the thoughts of God pouring out.
I don't understand. Is the mind real or an illusion? How can something be both real and an illusion? I thought that a thought was just an idea not a reality.
It is both real and non physical. To call it an illusion is to reveal that it both hides the divine reality and that it is made up of mind. Non material, masquerading as material existence.
How can something be both real and non-physical? Do you mean like love or hate or an emotion or perhaps the laws of physics? Or even the laws of logic and reason? They are certainly real - even though they are non-physical. Indeed I would go further and say they are non-material.
Why would a divine want to hide any reality? I don't understand "made up of mind". And again - non-material masquerading - sounds negative and deceptive. Not positive and enlightening.
In a bizarre way it sounds like you are recommending we embrace the negative to pass through the negative or illusion to get to something positive which is coming from a divine mind that is itself negative and deceptive.
Or have I missed something?
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@Incel-chud
Enlightenment.
Is a hairy fairy notion of specialness, achieved by going ommmmmmmmm....Together with a group of similarly special people also going ommmmmmmmmmmm.
Usually with a typical wardrobe style.....In a special location suitably adorned with suitable trinkets and whiffy things.
All comes with it's own inherent levels of stress and anxiety though.....
Relative to everyone else, who is not deemed to have achieved an enlightened level of specialness. Easily identified by their wardrobe style and inability to sit in the lotus position for hours and go ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Lotus position.....Yep Yoga too.
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@Swagnarok
From drug use?
No, from trauma.
Guided to read? What guided you to do so?
Book 1- by it appearing before me in the middle of the road having been ran over by cars and rescued just prior to rain pouring down
Book 2- visited 3 thrift stores in one day and the book was in all of them
Book 3- brother checked it out from the library and I kept tripping all of it.
All that plus intuition.
This is based on an incorrect reading of Scripture.
You say that, but then seemed to confirm it with your interpretation, but using different rhetoric to describe the same thing. I said sin led us out of the garden of Eden. You said this
The Garden of Eden had the status of a "temple", or a designated space set apart where a man beheld God. Man was contextually impure as a result of his sin and had to be made pure before he could return to the temple
I referred to this impurity as the demiurge, and you refer to it as sin. Ultimately it means the same thing. Something is shielding us from experiencing God.
The solution to the problem of sin is beyond one's self and it is submission to the God who first calls you to Him.
Agreed.
, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked." This is called the doctrine of total depravity, which is often misunderstood.
What you call the heart, I am calling ego.
Until then, however, any effort apart from God to realize the spark and promote its flourishing is nothing more than self-deception.
We haven't really said anything different.
I never hear these things in church though, so not sure where you are pulling the concepts from. Any reading recommendations would be great.
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@Tradesecret
That's not very helpful. Why not try and understand the world from the position that everything is real rather than an illusion?
Because typically the word real is associated with materialism, and thinking of things in a physical fashion.
I don't understand. Is the mind real or an illusion? How can something be both real and an illusion? I thought that a thought was just an idea not a reality.
That's why when talking about any concept touching on the concept of non duality, it is often better to just call things an illusion. Thoughts are real. The universe is God's thoughts.
Why would a divine want to hide any reality? I don't understand "made up of mind". And again - non-material masquerading - sounds negative and deceptive. Not positive and enlightening.
Things being "made up of mind", is a hard concept to explain, as it is to understand. For practical purposes, living in a non physical reality does require the perception of a physical universe, so it is easy to manipulate out environment. Just Google "all is mind" or something and see if you can get a better explanation. If you don't, I will find a better way to explain it later.
In a bizarre way it sounds like you are recommending we embrace the negative to pass through the negative or illusion to get to something positive which is coming from a divine mind that is itself negative and deceptive.
I would say embrace any pain or suffering you feel, so that way you don't repress it. Repressed negativity has a way of staying with people and feeding into more negativity.
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@zedvictor4
Enlightenment.Is a hairy fairy notion of specialness, achieved by going ommmmmmmmm....Together with a group of similarly special people also going ommmmmmmmmmmm.
Enlightenment, is for everyone. It isn't meant to be just for a select few, and it doesn't make one special
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@Incel-chud
That's not very helpful. Why not try and understand the world from the position that everything is real rather than an illusion?Because typically the word real is associated with materialism, and thinking of things in a physical fashion.
Why is that a problem? The real world and materialism are both solid objects that I can touch and taste and smell and observe and hear if necessary. I am a physical being. I'm not sure why thinking I am not is a better option.
I don't understand. Is the mind real or an illusion? How can something be both real and an illusion? I thought that a thought was just an idea not a reality.That's why when talking about any concept touching on the concept of non duality, it is often better to just call things an illusion. Thoughts are real. The universe is God's thoughts.
I can't see how thinking anything is an illusion is helpful especially if it is actually not an illusion. Thoughts are real I agree. So why would we call them illusions? What do you mean the universe is God's thoughts? Doesn't that put the cart before the horse?
Why would a divine want to hide any reality? I don't understand "made up of mind". And again - non-material masquerading - sounds negative and deceptive. Not positive and enlightening.Things being "made up of mind", is a hard concept to explain, as it is to understand. For practical purposes, living in a non physical reality does require the perception of a physical universe, so it is easy to manipulate out environment. Just Google "all is mind" or something and see if you can get a better explanation. If you don't, I will find a better way to explain it later.
I googled it - not very helpful. It led me to mindfulness. I don't agree that everything is mind. Even if it supposed to be the mind of God. My computer is not my mind. My beer that I am drinking is real. It is not in my mind. I take the view that God is distinct from his creation. Surely it is better to consider that everything is real? That my thoughts are real. But so is my computer. Please give me a better understanding?
In a bizarre way it sounds like you are recommending we embrace the negative to pass through the negative or illusion to get to something positive which is coming from a divine mind that is itself negative and deceptive.I would say embrace any pain or suffering you feel, so that way you don't repress it. Repressed negativity has a way of staying with people and feeding into more negativity.
If I was being attacked by a murderer I would resist the murderer. I would not embrace the pain that comes from being murdered. Is this what you are talking about? Or are you suggesting that while I am being murdered, that the pain I am feeling, I ought to embrace- in order to rectify the situation?
I don't disagree with you about repressed negativity. But isn't the idea of illusion negative? Isn't the idea of divine thoughts masquerading as reality negative and deceptive? Why can't the divine express things positively - not as an illusion but as reality - as something transparent?
Thank you for your thoughts.
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@Incel-chud
You could have started with hugging the repo man.
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@Tradesecret
Why is that a problem? The real world and materialism are both solid objects that I can touch and taste and smell and observe and hear if necessary. I am a physical being. I'm not sure why thinking I am not is a better option.
As I said. It is good we have this illusion of material, so that way we can operate in the world around us. It's useful to think that way.
Even if it supposed to be the mind of God. My computer is not my mind. My beer that I am drinking is real. It is not in my mind.
It is real and it is mind.
If I was being attacked by a murderer I would resist the murderer. I would not embrace the pain that comes from being murdered. Is this what you are talking about? Or are you suggesting that while I am being murdered, that the pain I am feeling, I ought to embrace- in order to rectify the situation?
I would say yes, if it is unavoidable, focus on the pain. If it is avoidable, rectify the situation, defend yourself and then live in the pain.
isn't the idea of illusion negative? Isn't the idea of divine thoughts masquerading as reality negative and deceptive?
No, none of those things need to have negative connotations.
Why can't the divine express things positively - not as an illusion but as reality - as something transparent?
There is no difference between illusion and reality. Illusion is the synonym we are using to understand the concept of mind.
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@zedvictor4
He was in the wrong, that is why he had to come back and apologize to me and why the company requesting the repo sent me a refund on my next car payment.
I couldn't have hugged him. When I made physical contact the police were called, so apparently physical contact was not welcome
Nurse Ratched, we have got another one.
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@Incel-chud
I see where this is going.
I'm not sure about the everything being a illusion thing .
But i like the world not existing without you part.. when i mention this to someone, the initial response is.
But your mom and dad had you , soooooo " they were here before you. "
And video footage of what appears to be , a time before yours.
The normal objections. Pyramids and shlt
And when people around us die , life seems to still go on.
With death of ego one can not come up with these ummmm, hypothesiseses.
But the beauty of philosophy forum and the religious forum isssssss .
YOU ARE CORRECT.
for we will never know . we can't know.
And can someone mention. NIRVANA .....
I would now like to mention
A ORGASAM.
Thats a feeaky totaly different experience. In so much as.
Its not like any thing else. With in reason .
No i haven't thought about this yet.
But.
Its diffrent.
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@Incel-chud
I never hear these things in church though, so not sure where you are pulling the concepts from. Any reading recommendations would be great.
I mean, this is pretty basic stuff. The way I described it had somewhat of a Calvinist bent, but it's really not something that you couldn't pull from a beginner's theological text, or by repeatedly attending a Wednesday night Bible study.
However, you could try reading these:
What you call the heart, I am calling ego.
If I understand you properly, we are not talking about the same thing.
The "heart", metaphorically, is the sum of man's sincerest and most compelling whims. It includes his natural intuition that there's an answer buried inside himself to resolve his dilemmas and his problems, and that by listening to it he can arrive at a higher state than where he was at before.
A man dumped his faithful wife of 20 years for his young hot secretary, who his gut told him was the person he was always and truly intended to have married, suspecting that nothing more than a false consciousness led him to once delude himself about his first wife.
This man "listened to his heart", forgetting that he was once as sure about his first wife as he is now about his new lover. But the heart has deceived him, for it led him to mistake base impulses for enlightenment merely because those impulses were repressed.
Though of course you do not stoop to follow your heart down the path of adultery, the inner voice you're listening to that offers hidden knowledge of reality is nonetheless the voice of the heart.
What you call the ego seems to be the "baseline" (for lack of a better word), or your mundane, everyday conscious understanding of reality. Dissatisfaction with the baseline is normal, and indeed this is something that helps call the soul back to God, but any esoteric solution to said dissatisfaction outside of God, as He revealed Himself in the Bible, is the heart trying to lead you astray.
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@Incel-chud
I do have an honest question:
Assuming you live everyday in a state of ego death, how has that affected your ability to live normally and thrive against the stresses, pressures, and expectations of modern life?
Has it adversely affected your career or relationships? Has it positively affected these things? Or neither?
Can you compare yourself now with the you from before you stumbled across this revelation?
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@Incel-chud
Ask me questions about how to achieve enlightenment,
Do you consider yourself enlightened?
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@Swagnarok
Assuming you live everyday in a state of ego death, how has that affected your ability to live normally and thrive against the stresses, pressures, and expectations of modern life?
You can't live in a state of ego death everyday. It explains an occurrence. Ego death can occur several times in somebody's life and is typically an unpleasant experience.
The ego is the part of the personality that protects your inner child. Most people will build these defenses back up again gradually and emerge with a new personality, though I am sure the core self still remains.
Ideally before the ego gets a chance to rebuild itself, you live in pure consciousness sometimes called Christ consciousness.
I don't particularly care about the stresses of modern life or pressures. I don't feel them. The world could burn around me, and I would stay in a state of bliss.
Has it adversely affected your career or relationships? Has it positively affected these things? Or neither?
It's helping me to establish boundaries in my relationship and disregard my tendency to people please. I tend to be more forgiving when I like a person or they like me.
For example the wife has been cheating on me with various men, now and in the past. Before I just kinda hoped she would change and stop continuing to hurt me. Now, I am leaving on April 1st and we are working on a parenting plan.
I would like to salvage the relationship, but it won't happen unless she changes and shows remorse. So I guess in some aspects it has harmed that relationship.
When I am with my son, I am less distracted. If we play a game or watch a movie, I am now 100% in the moment, so it has helped that relationship.
I am not judgemental of people and accept them as they are, so now I do enjoy the presence of a wife variety of people, as before I kept no social network or a very tiny one. So I guess it has improved things in that regard.
I do have a long time close friend, who I stopped biting my tongue around because he is killing himself with alcohol. I don't like seeing him hurt himself, so I don't condone his actions, and if he tells me he is drunk, or was drunk the night before, I will remind him of how that affects people around him. So that has harmed my relationship with him.
So it really is a mixed bag as to whether or not relationships have improved or gotten worse.
Career wise, it has helped. I was job hopping before, to keep getting more money or because I thought my family deserved better. I now realize the role luck plays in building wealth, and just focus on doing the right things now in terms of building wealth and security for my family.
My shift in focus at work has adjusted as well. Prior to this I would get frequent promotions or better opportunities. When I did this my focus was on buying the best I could possibly be.
Now I focus on being as helpful as I can possibly be, so I anticipate the loop of rapid promotions and accolades to slow down or possibly stop.
So I would say it has likely negatively impacted my career.
Can you compare yourself now with the you from before you stumbled across this revelation?
Yes. Prior to becoming enlightened. I was weighed down with the weight of the world. I felt responsible for every bad thing.
Kids starve every day and I donate less than 100% of my income to feed them. I technically could live in a box, and eat in a soup kitchen or off the land and donate 100% and help hundreds of starving people a year eat.
I have not dedicated my life to ending age related diseases. If my lack of devotion to doing that would have cured them one day sooner, we are looking at potentially a million lives saved. So in some respect, by not doing that I have murdered one million people.
By dissolving the ego, I don't feel guilty for these things. I now realize we all have killed millions through our lack of action or in some cases because of action. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
A huge weight was lifted in that regard. I also felt very little emotion other than empathy prior, but now an in a state of bliss.
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@Stephen
I am enlightened. I have taken the red pill.
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@Incel-chud
I am enlightened. I have taken the red pill.
Enlightened to what?