Biden is Putin's best buddy.

Author: Greyparrot

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We are now dealing from a position of extreme weakness where both Maduro and Iran can extract the most favorable deals that won't benefit American interests at all, essentially creating new threats to replace old threats.
The best move would be to cut back our oil usage dramatically on a wartime footing.  The US is 5% of the world's population consuming 20% of  of daily oil production.  We can easily afford to cut way, way back on our oil consumption- eliminating Saudi Arabian imports too and still using three times more than the avg. person globally- work from home, improve civic infrastructure to prioritize pedestrians, bikes, scooters, etc.  We don't need to wait for a President to tell us how, we should just cut back and relieve some of the burden of foreign entanglements.
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we should just cut back and relieve some of the burden of foreign entanglements.
I suppose the 2022 elections will decide how Americans feel about that idea.
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@Greyparrot
Honestly, I don’t see how this would have been possible. Biden predicted the war would happen a good deal ahead of time, but by then, most countries could see the writing on the wall, so they would always have us over a barrel. Trying to initiate these kinds of relationships take time, likely months, to hash out meaning that even if they weren’t that perceptive, war would have broken out during the negotiations.

So what you’re really saying is that Biden should have initiated these talks well before there was any chance of an invasion, which I’m sure would have gone over like a lead balloon.
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So what you’re really saying is that Biden should have initiated these talks well before there was any chance of an invasion, which I’m sure would have gone over like a lead balloon.
It would have been the stronger of 2 weak positions.

most countries could see the writing on the wall, so they would always have us over a barrel. 
I see what you did there...
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@Greyparrot
Again, though, you’re talking about a strategy that would have very clearly weakened his political position in the US and abroad with no obvious reason for doing it. It’s unpopular now when we have an obvious benefit for doing it. I don’t know how he could possibly have rallied support for it several months ago with no obvious benefit in pursuing it.
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@whiteflame
Again, though, you’re talking about a strategy that would have very clearly weakened his political position in the US and abroad with no obvious reason for doing it. It’s unpopular now when we have an obvious benefit for doing it. I don’t know how he could possibly have rallied support for it several months ago with no obvious benefit in pursuing it.
The Biden administration could have pursued this under the radar with little to no media coverage on it. That's how most foreign policies are developed.

Just like there's a media blackout right now on how America destabilized Ukraine during the Obama years despite such a policy being unpopular with Americans.
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@Greyparrot
most countries could see the writing on the wall, so they would always have us over a barrel. 
I see what you did there...

Glad you appreciated that one.

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@Greyparrot
GP, we’re talking about reversing decades of policy with two countries. If they had done this under the radar without consulting Congress, there would have been hell to pay over it, and I’m not convinced he could because this is economic policy. You can pursue an agreement only if the investment is clearly there to be spent. Congress holds the purse strings.
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@whiteflame
If they had done this under the radar without consulting Congress, there would have been hell to pay over it, and I’m not convinced he could because this is economic policy. You can pursue an agreement only if the investment is clearly there to be spent. Congress holds the purse strings.

It's Biden's Congress to do as he pleases for one thing. For another thing, if there's a media Blackout on it, the Congress won't care.

As I layed out in my other thread, most people are shielded from the information about effects of Obama's foreign policy in Ukraine. It would have been totally doable.
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Let’s not pretend that Biden has full control over Congress just because there are 50 Democrats, but for a second, let’s just consider the scenario you’re presenting:

Biden, with no obvious reasons for doing so, decides to end a decades long embargo with Venezuela and Iran. Just out of the blue.

He then decides to do everything under the table, setting up a deal with these two countries with active support from at least 50 members of Congress. None of the other members, who would be actively seeing Biden do this for no clear reason, would leak this to the public. Somehow, this will yield a media blackout in an age where there are a multitude of options and opportunities for people to leak sensitive information like this, and much as Ukraine wasn’t of interest to much of the public under Obama, Iran at least has always been a topic of interest to the public. Keeping activities there quiet is an absurd task.

So, to sum up, you wanted Biden to have incredible foresight, predicting the events that are unfolding, respond to it months ahead of time with activities that would burn what little political capital he has left and threaten to damage his reputation still further if the public found out. Do I have that right?
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@whiteflame
Alright, at least this is a clear stance on what the US should do. Given that producing more oil domestically would obviously come with delays in the process of ramping up production (usually in the timeline of at least several months), this isn't really a short term solution to the problem of limited resources. It indicates that he should have pushed for more drilling early in his administration, which I'll grant you would have been beneficial, but it's not a solution to rising gas prices now. I have my issues with trying to get oil from Iran or Venezuela as well, though at this point, addressing the short-term pain of limited oil supplies while keeping up the ban on Russian oil requires either getting it from another country or waiting out the delay. I see problems with both, though refusing to ban Russian oil would have incurred its own problems.
The problem isn’t that he could buy Venezuelan/Iranian oil in the short term. The problem is he has to do it in the long term. Why? Because he refuses to produce domestically. He believes that Americans should shell out 56,000 to buy an electric car. You don’t pick and choose with radical dictators.

Essentially he’s he’s either facing off against a lion or cliff even though there’s a helicopter with a rope right above him.
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@ILikePie5
The problem isn’t that he could buy Venezuelan/Iranian oil in the short term. The problem is he has to do it in the long term. Why? Because he refuses to produce domestically. He believes that Americans should shell out 56,000 to buy an electric car. You don’t pick and choose with radical dictators.

Essentially he’s he’s either facing off against a lion or cliff even though there’s a helicopter with a rope right above him.
Not going to disagree that refusing to increase domestic production contributed to this problem, though I think claiming that his doing so would have solved for this entirely is a different story. Biden would have had to find means to either bring down oil usage in this country or obtain oil from external sources regardless, so I think the long-term issue is non-unique. The only difference is degree.

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@whiteflame
if the public found out.
They won't. In fact they could spin it as a humanitarian effort. Lord knows how much spin got traction with Obama's policies in Ukraine.

People still actually think we are defending "democracy" lol.
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@Greyparrot
They won't. In fact they could spin it as a humanitarian effort. Lord knows how much spin got traction with Obama's policies in Ukraine.
...They would spin... a very large-scale purchase of oil... from Iran and Venezuela... as a humanitarian effort? And you honestly think people would buy that shit, especially given that half the country was already actively opposed to Biden shortly after he was elected? Can't help but notice that you ignored the rest of the absurdities inherent to your scenario, but this takes the cake. 
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@whiteflame
Not going to disagree that refusing to increase domestic production contributed to this problem, though I think claiming that his doing so would have solved for this entirely is a different story. Biden would have had to find means to either bring down oil usage in this country or obtain oil from external sources regardless, so I think the long-term issue is non-unique. The only difference is degree.
I disagree. Under Trump, the price would never have gone above 3 bucks as a national average even with this supply shock. In fact, from a business perspective, it would increase investments in oil production domestically because of the massive profits involved. It would be relatively easy to control the price under Trump. But Biden as he stated, abolished new permits for fracking and drilling. Zero investments from a business perspective. 

There’s a massive difference between being reliant on a nation for a few months compared to practically forever. 

Also you’re not accounting for the fact that Americans are still going to be suffering for a few months, while the negotiations take place. It’s not like the deal will be done in a day.


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...They would spin... a very large-scale purchase of oil... from Iran and Venezuela... as a humanitarian effort? And you honestly think people would buy that shit, especially given that half the country was already actively opposed to Biden shortly after he was elected? Can't help but notice that you ignored the rest of the absurdities inherent to your scenario, but this takes the cake. 
The media has peddled worse and the people have believed worse. Remember when they said a Russian prostitute peed on Trump lol.

And that’s the problem. The media is willing to go to any level to defend Biden. All their owners are Democrats or literally in bed with Democrats. It’s actually atrocious. Media talks about fake news, well they’re the ones who started it. They only have themselves to blame.
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@ILikePie5
I disagree. Under Trump, the price would never have gone above 3 bucks as a national average even with this supply shock. In fact, from a business perspective, it would increase investments in oil production domestically because of the massive profits involved. It would be relatively easy to control the price under Trump. But Biden as he stated, abolished new permits for fracking and drilling. Zero investments from a business perspective. 

There’s a massive difference between being reliant on a nation for a few months compared to practically forever. 

Also you’re not accounting for the fact that Americans are still going to be suffering for a few months, while the negotiations take place. It’s not like the deal will be done in a day.
To support that argument, I'd like to see some evidence that the amount of drilling would have increased to levels near or over the amount we took in from Russia. Again, I'm not arguing that Biden's decision to stop issuing permits for fracking or drilling was beneficial for oil prices. I'm arguing that there was always going to be a substantial gap between the increase we could feasibly achieve within the US and the amount we take in from Russia. Saying that it would eventually increase investments in oil production domestically doesn't modify that - you're still talking about months or years for those new investments to bear fruit, and it's unclear that any amount of investment in domestic production would entirely cover for Russian oil.
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The media has peddled worse and the people have believed worse. Remember when they said a Russian prostitute peed on Trump lol.

And that’s the problem. The media is willing to go to any level to defend Biden. All their owners are Democrats or literally in bed with Democrats. It’s actually atrocious. Media talks about fake news, well they’re the ones who started it. They only have themselves to blame.
Dude, honestly, you believe this shit? I can't fathom a world in which Biden gets away with this kind of behavior unscathed. Comparing it to a rumor about Trump having a Russian prostitute pee on him is just absurd because a) that didn't have any support whatsoever, b) that was entirely personal, and c) it didn't involve a massive investment on the part of the US government in a hostile foreign source of oil for no obvious reason. You can claim that the media would cover for him, but the evidence would necessarily be available to every member of Congress, many of whom would have every incentive to leak it. If you honestly believe that the media could give him sufficient cover for this, then I'm just baffled.
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@whiteflame
 a very large-scale purchase of oil... from Iran and Venezuela...
Easily. you saw how they spun purchasing a Ukrainian president for 5 billion. Super easy.
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@Greyparrot
Well, then we're not going to agree on much. Didn't think we would to start, but this is just beyond me. I'll end off here.
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@ILikePie5
The media has peddled worse and the people have believed worse. Remember when they said a Russian prostitute peed on Trump lol.
Never underestimate the gullibility of an American.

 it didn't involve a massive investment on the part of the US government in a hostile foreign source of oil for no obvious reason. 
Like investing 5 billion to install a Ukrainian president needed a reason to peddle to Americans.... Hint: It didn't.

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@ILikePie5
Here is an example from 2014 on how to spin the 5 billion spent on regime change,

Our ruling
Contrary to claims, the United States did not spend $5 billion to incite the rebellion in Ukraine.
That’s a distorted understanding of remarks given by a State Department official. She was referring to money spent on "democracy-building" programs in Ukraine since it broke off from the Soviet Union in 1991.

We rate the claim Pants on Fire.

Simply redirect all queries for "regime change" to the official strawman "inciting rebellion" and that's all the smoke needed to fool most Americans.

There's no basis at all to think similar spins can't happen for deals with Iran and Venezuela.
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@whiteflame
You can claim that the media would cover for him, but the evidence would necessarily be available to every member of Congress, many of whom would have every incentive to leak it. If you honestly believe that the media could give him sufficient cover for this, then I'm just baffled.
They literally did it in 2020. Ever here about the Hunter Biden tapes? You hear about the WI Special Counsel investigation into the 2020 Election Report? I bet you didn’t. You may think it’s crazy, but remember that no one thought 4 dollars of gas was possible. Well except Trump
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@whiteflame
To support that argument, I'd like to see some evidence that the amount of drilling would have increased to levels near or over the amount we took in from Russia. Again, I'm not arguing that Biden's decision to stop issuing permits for fracking or drilling was beneficial for oil prices. I'm arguing that there was always going to be a substantial gap between the increase we could feasibly achieve within the US and the amount we take in from Russia. Saying that it would eventually increase investments in oil production domestically doesn't modify that - you're still talking about months or years for those new investments to bear fruit, and it's unclear that any amount of investment in domestic production would entirely cover for Russian oil.
I think it’s clear, but agree to disagree.

Either way, we can both agree that gas prices were rising before Biden anyways, and that Biden’s energy policies are severely harming the average American.
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@ILikePie5
I'm really just tired of this argument that Biden can effectively cover up practically anything he does. He couldn't even send someone to visit Venezuela without the reason for it becoming patently obvious and widely reported in the media. If you want to pretend that he could get through a massive shift in energy policy by enriching two countries who are clearly on our shit list and come away with the public being none the wiser, then so be it, but I sincerely do not buy it. 

I've got mixed feelings about Biden's energy policies, by the by, though I don't think they've been all that great so far.
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@whiteflame

I would guess maybe 20% of Americans tops know this story. Do you disagree?
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@Greyparrot
I don’t think it’s possible to accurately estimate how many people know about a relatively new news story, but even assuming you’re right, it’s not the last news story that will come out on this topic, it’s not the last opportunity for people to become aware of it, and last I checked, opponents of the president are quick to make a big deal out of decisions like this, so it’s likely to be revisited again and again over the course of the midterms. Don’t know how many people you suspect will miss that.

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about a relatively new news story
It's 5 days old. If most Americans didn't get it when it was breaking news, it's no longer newsworthy.

I'm willing to bet you didn't know about this 5 days ago.
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@Greyparrot
…you realize that by saying that, you’re proving my point that people pick up news after it comes out, right? No, I didn’t see this five days ago. I saw it three days ago, when it received wider reporting from news outlets. I don’t know what you think suddenly makes a story “no longer newsworthy,” but the point here is that it affects perception of the president and his actions. If it does that, which it will, then it still matters.
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@whiteflame
Clearly, GP feels no responsibility to his thesis or making any good faith reply to your arguments.  When GP loses an argument, which is always, he just changes the subject.