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@Dr.Franklin
Why should we involve ourselves in Ukraine?
Supa’s a Neocon. Don’t be offended lol
Russia and Ukraine
Posts
Total:
483
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@SirAnonymous
I don't see how the US government hates you (or anyone other than itself, really), but at least you're honest.
Geez, where do we even begin with this one. For starters, they think I am a domestic terrorist
I disagree, but even if that were the case, there is a significant difference between believing that order is more important than liberty and simply not caring about liberty.
I don't care about liberty because it's an empty word with virtually no meaning anymore. What is "liberty" in the American sense? Being "free", how on earth are we free?
t is quite possible that the whole Russian-Ukraine war will finish without directly impacting the lives of those who don't live in either country. So why care? Because it's the right thing to do. Murder is wrong. Unprovoked invasion is murder on a grand scale. It's true that there is little that you and I can do about it. However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't care. It is often tempting to sacrifice our principles to our self-interest, but if we do, we will find ourselves on a dangerous path. We may not see it at first, but we won't like where we end up.
I am a White American. I care about White Americans. I have no interest in centuries old slavic conflicts. It is a shame that Ukraine is being invaded and people are dying, I get that 100%.
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@ILikePie5
Supa’s a Neocon. Don’t be offended lol
He is such a little whining bitch tagging me in post after post saying that my opinions are horrid and truly the worst. Granted Post #1 was bad timing, but I meant to illustrate the fact that Americans are simply no longer interested in fighting Russians when we have much more in common with them as opposed to the average bureaucrat on the raytheon board of executives.
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@Dr.Franklin
Order>Liberty
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Invasion is Order
-Frankie 2022
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Nope
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@SirAnonymous
Murder is wrong. Unprovoked invasion is murder on a grand scale.
Also like... not very orderly, even if that was your goal. Just throwing that out there. Just on the off chance that anyone in this thread happens to be pretending they give a shit about order or something...
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Good point.
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@Dr.Franklin
Geez, where do we even begin with this one. For starters, they think I am a domestic terrorist
Are you one of the 12 Oath Keepers charged with seditious conspiracy? If not, then this is nothing more than partisan hyperbole. That one kooky school board in Virginia and a few blue checks on Twitter might call you a domestic terrorist, but the federal government wouldn't.
I don't care about liberty because it's an empty word with virtually no meaning anymore. What is "liberty" in the American sense? Being "free", how on earth are we free?
This is a nonargument. Things don't lose their value because the words used to describe them lose their meaning. Would the concept of order cease to be important if the word "order" lost its meaning? No. The same is true of liberty. Liberty - the concept, not the word - doesn't lose its luster because the word loses its meaning. And if we are not truly free, then pursuing freedom becomes more important, not less.
I am a White American. I care about White Americans.
Do you care about black Americans? Hispanic? Asian? Why should a person's immutable characteristics limit who they care about?
I have no interest in centuries old slavic conflicts. It is a shame that Ukraine is being invaded and people are dying, I get that 100%.
At least you admit it's a shame. That's something. But what starts in Europe seldom stays there. If we only care about ourselves, we may soon find ourselves alone. Where will we be then?
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
Supa’s a Neocon.
Good for him.
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@Dr.Franklin
Reading helps when telling me to go fuck myself
Response to Pies we shouldn't defend Ukraine:
I know, but I am actively rooting for Ukraine
You actively said this:
I probably have more cultural and ideological ties to the average Russian than the average American. Which is why I am supporting Russia.
You are supporting Russia, who is committing a war crime right now. It is an idiotic take
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@Dr.Franklin
All I am saying is that we should not go into Ukraine and fight when I and most conservatives probably have more in common with Russians as opposed to the people running our current government.
As a conservative, I have much more in common with Joe Biden than with Vladimir Putin. To be clear, I don't have much in common with Biden. But for all his flaws - and he has many - Biden believes in democracy and doesn't believe in unprovoked invasions. Putin actively suppresses democracy and invades without provocation. That is entirely antithetical to my values.
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@ILikePie5
I'm not an aggrevationalist neocon
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@Dr.Franklin
The other buzz word is expansionism Doc.
And then there is the phrase, ageing megalomaniac.
But what is it that I don't understand about "buffer zone" Doc?
Perhaps the U.S. should invade Northern Mexico just to be sure.
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@Mharman
Yep. But look at the U.S. track record since WW2.
And I don't remember the Afghanis attacking the U.S.
And neither do I remember Cambodia, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Syria or Libya attacking the U.S.
Afghanistan was just a knee jerk reaction to the Twin Towers attack, and I don't suppose that their was one Afghani involved.
More than likely Saudi sponsored terror.
But the U.S. was never going to invade Saudi Arabia was it.....Too much economic interest.
With one metaphorical stroke of a pen, Putin has killed whatever "We're an anti-imperialist power opposed to American unilateral bullying" propaganda value Russia enjoyed the last 20 years since Iraq.
The brief era of faux moral superiority by Eurasian autocrats has come to a decisive close. Their most ardent supporters now must admit Russia is just as bad as the US.
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@ILikePie5
Do you have any actual facts and logic to back that up, or is that just what you heard on Hannity?Only precedent. Putin already did it under the weak leadership of Obama/Biden.
So no facts, no logic. Just “dUh PuTIn dId iT uNDer oBamA AnD bIdeN sO iT MusT bE BecAuSE tHEyre WeaK”
Got it.
Here’s a crazy thought… the US is not the only other country in the world and the US President does not rule the world. There are plenty of other non-US countries out there so not everything that happens in the world is directly because of the US. I know American arrogance combined with your obsession of Biden is a difficult thing to combat, but just try.
I would love to know if any of these people arguing “Russia invaded because Biden is weak” could explain what exactly is it that Biden is not doing which Trump would be doing to stop all this. Besides of course ranting with all caps on Twitter.
When Putin invaded Crimea Trump blamed Obama, not Putin. When Putin launched a cyber attack against the US, Trump took Putin’s denials over the unanimous conclusions of US intelligence. But Trump is the one Putin is afraid of. Ok bro.
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@Double_R
I would love to know if any of these people arguing “Russia invaded because Biden is weak” could explain what exactly is it that Biden is not doing which Trump would be doing to stop all this.
Is this a serious question? Really?
1) none of this:
or this:
or this:
2) A position of strength begins with this:
A) Insist NATO take Putin more seriously than America does and insist NATO honors its obligations by backing it up with European military contributions.
B) Insist Germany AND America become less reliant on Russia for energy.
C) Kill hundreds of paramilitary Russians if they try to interfere in the Syria war to prove your resolve in a bloody and real way in a language Putin understands.
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@Vader
I'm not an aggrevationalist neocon
I’m confident you’d vote for someone like Nikki Haley or Liz Cheney lol
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@Double_R
I would love to know if any of these people arguing “Russia invaded because Biden is weak” could explain what exactly is it that Biden is not doing which Trump would be doing to stop all this. Besides of course ranting with all caps on Twitter.
The irony of this statement lol
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@Greyparrot
Is this a serious question? Really?1) none of this:or this:or this:
If you have an actual point please make it. Not watching YouTube videos to try and figure out what cockamamie idea you’re trying to convey.
2) A position of strength begins with this:A) Insist NATO take Putin more seriously than America does and insist NATO honors its obligations by backing it up with European military contributions.
Asking our NATO allies to uphold their military obligations is good, but Trump’s threats to back out of NATO or not uphold the US’s obligations weakened NATO, not strengthened it. The entire organization and everything it sets out to accomplish is based on trust - If one nation is attacked the rest of us will be there to defend it. Trump’s flagrant disregard for that obligation forces every NATO nation to think hard about whether they should be there for us, which could cause the entire alliance to collapse. This is one of the main reasons Putin wanted a moron like Trump in the Oval Office and was no doubt salivating anytime he would hear what Trump has to say about NATO.
B) Insist Germany AND America become less reliant on Russia for energy.
You mean like investing in alternative energy sources?
C) Kill hundreds of paramilitary Russians if they try to interfere in the Syria war to prove your resolve in a bloody and real way in a language Putin understands.
What does this have to do with Ukraine?
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@ILikePie5
The irony of this statement lol
Do you have anything of substance to contribute, or do you just get a kick out of pretending you did?
If you have an actual point please make it. Not watching YouTube videos to try and figure out what cockamamie idea you’re trying to convey.
It's videos of Biden speaking. I don't blame you for ignoring Biden right now.
Do you have anything of substance to contribute,
Do you actually have the courage to listen to Biden speeches without vomiting?
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@Greyparrot
He’s still in denial lol. Saint Biden is a strong and effective leader
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@ILikePie5
He’s still in denial lol. Saint Biden is a strong and effective leader
I guess... I can only wonder how mentally warped you have to be to listen to a Biden speech where he directly said Putin could have a minor incursion with no pushback and then imply Trump somehow said it.
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@Greyparrot
Only logical that Putin wouldn’t invade under Russian Stooge Trump
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@zedvictor4
The other buzz word is expansionism Doc.And then there is the phrase, ageing megalomaniac.But what is it that I don't understand about "buffer zone" Doc?Perhaps the U.S. should invade Northern Mexico just to be sure.
nobody cares about buzz words, there just tools for propaganda. Russia has interests and are defending those interests, you would never get it because your Birtish and UK has never defended their interests once
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@SirAnonymous
As a conservative, I have much more in common with Joe Biden than with Vladimir Putin. To be clear, I don't have much in common with Biden. But for all his flaws - and he has many - Biden believes in democracy and doesn't believe in unprovoked invasions. Putin actively suppresses democracy and invades without provocation. That is entirely antithetical to my values.
fair enough-if you believe in bullshit civic ideas like democracy. But for me, putin isnt the one pushing LGBT on my nation or advocating for demographic replacement so Im going to have to disagree
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@Vader
so what? USA commits war crimes too. Russia is defending their interests against the gay west and I am all for it. Am I in favor of the invasion which will kill more Christian Europeans??No I am not, but my point still stands
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@Dr.Franklin
fair enough, but putin isnt the one pushing LGBT on my nation so Im going to have to disagree
Well, LGBT people aren't in the habit of starting wars, conquering their neighbors, and murdering and imprisoning the opposition, so I think Putin may be just a bit worse than them.