How to end homelessness

Author: TheUnderdog 2 years ago

Posts

Total: 42

#31

oromagi

Debates: 117

Posts: 8,696

oromagi

02.16.2022 06:43PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

How does this work, exactly? Apartments have people that live in them too, generally less wealthy people I would think. Right?

Colorado Coalition seems to take over the whole building- first a couple of hotels at the old airport site and then some whole old apartment complexes that they renovated. Now they actually build new buildings. The one by my house has a pizza place on the first floor that is all run by residents of the building.

#32

Yassine

Debates: 3

Posts: 1,085

Yassine

02.16.2022 07:08PM

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@TheUnderdog

- The same solution works for Israel. Israel supporters love Israelis in Arab land, at the expense of Palestinian people. We should move Israelis to live in Israel lovers' lands & share their homes. This way everybody is happy.

#33

Discipulus_Didicit

Debates: 9

Posts: 5,758

Discipulus_Didicit

02.16.2022 07:10PM

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@oromagi

Makes a lot more sense when you put it that way. My impression after reading your first post was that they would tear down an apartment building then build cheap houses in its place, which seems... inefficient, to put it nicely. Seems like that was a misunderstanding, renovating hotels actually seems like a smart idea (save money and probably a lot of time too) and including built-in business places to generate jobs seems like a really smart idea, I probably never would have thought of that one on my own.

The real question though... have you tried the pizza and how good is it?

#34

oromagi

Debates: 117

Posts: 8,696

oromagi

02.16.2022 07:32PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

The real question though... have you tried the pizza and how good is it?

I have. Its fine but nothing special. Think sort of Papa John's style.

#35

Ramshutu

Debates: 43

Posts: 2,768

Ramshutu

02.16.2022 11:42PM

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@Incel-chud

It really doesn't. Back when the country was first formed, everyone was a business owner and it was highly unregulated. You would be a blacksmith or a farmer or vet. Everyone legit owned their own businesses before market interventionist was a thing

So while you said 3 sentence - none was related in any way to the avoidance of monopoly - other than, say, the difficulty in forming large nationwide monopolies when there are not yet trains.

The issue is very simple. If you’re successful, and want to expand. In the absence of regulation, one of the best ways of doing that is to buy out competition; lobby government. with vast sums of money government for beneficial treatment: and levering that power in a way that limits consumer choice.

Monopoly in unregulated capitalism is effectively inevitable as a result. And given that, to make it work you have to have truly altruistic regulation - which also doesn’t work for the same reason communism doesn’t work - as it requires everyone involved to be altruistic - a truly free market that works properly is impossible.

#36

Greyparrot

Debates: 4

Posts: 25,972

Greyparrot

02.16.2022 11:53PM

In the absence of regulation

lobby government. with vast sums of money government for beneficial treatment:

These 2 things are incompatible. Preferential treatment by the government requires regulation of competitors like they did with Covid mandates on small business.

No monopoly can crush competition without government regulations handed down from the one uncontested monopoly on force of the government.

The problem isn't an unregulated market, it's targeted regulations only the donor class can afford to purchase to maintain power.

Like I said earlier in this thread, go ahead and try to build cheap housing for the homeless. In an unregulated market, you simply build it and they will come.

In a tyrannical 1 party state like California, you are not allowed to build anything that the donor class objects to, especially low income housing that degentrifies the neighborhood.

#37

Ramshutu

Debates: 43

Posts: 2,768

Ramshutu

02.17.2022 12:35AM

These 2 things are incompatible. Preferential treatment by the government requires regulation of competitors like they did with Covid mandates on small business.

Ignoring the second part - which is just a dishonest straw man that I know you won’t bother to defend - you’re a little confused I think. If there is no regulation - lobbying for regulation is a practical strategy for large companies.

No monopoly can crush competition without government regulations handed down from the one uncontested monopoly of force of the government.

Of course they can. What are you smoking lol. Any company that can become big enough can buy or leverage power to take out smaller competitors through a million different ways. In the absence of regulation mergers, buyouts and price fixing are super easy.

The idea that regulation is what helps monopolies crush competition is just a lie peddled to gullible republicans so they support removing important regulations that harm the bottom line of Republican donors.

#38

Greyparrot

Debates: 4

Posts: 25,972

Greyparrot

02.17.2022 12:40AM

That's a cute theory, but the regulations on small business during Covid objectively caused a massive wealth transfer from small businesses to elites. That is real leverage. You would never have seen anything like that before the regulations.

In an unregulated market, those small businesses can tell the large ones to fuck off if they try to buy them out. GTFO with the "monopolies just buy out the competition" bullshit. They can try, but everyone has to agree to fair terms in a free and unregulated market.

Republicanbad blablabla...

Go ahead and try to build cheap housing for the homeless. In an unregulated market, you simply build it and they will come.

In a tyrannical 1 party state like California, you are not allowed to build anything that the donor class objects to, especially low income housing that degentrifies the neighborhood.

Even Trump couldn't buy out that lady's house without trying to get the government to impose imminent domain regulations. And I know you are no buttlicker of Trump. Are you? Surely you support an unregulated market where an old lady can freely tell Trump to fuck off?

#39

bmdrocks21

Debates: 6

Posts: 2,798

bmdrocks21

02.18.2022 11:10PM

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@oromagi

I agree. It seems better for everyone involved when you can corral all of them in a single place, although it may be a bit of a concern for the residents near wherever such a dormitory is located.

But I'll be honest, this seems to be one of those topics that's hard to get into the real details. Left-wing people are the only ones who seem to focus on it, so I haven't learned much about what Reagan did except cut funding (no reasoning given). But it seems to me that there were, as you said, rather bad issues with asylums and other such institutions. It doesn't seem to me that they were entirely beyond help, though.

I would say that doing nothing is probably better than some of the half-assed solutions that gives money to people who will just buy heroin.

9 days later

Topic's author

#40

TheUnderdog

Debates: 5

Posts: 4,340

TheUnderdog

02.28.2022 02:41PM

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@Yassine

Israel supporters love Israelis in Arab land

No human being is illegal. Israelis should be allowed to move into Palestine. Arabs should be allowed to move into Israel. Let people move where they want.

Topic's author

#41

TheUnderdog

Debates: 5

Posts: 4,340

TheUnderdog

02.28.2022 02:44PM

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@Ramshutu

Broadly speaking - the entire purpose of government is to Marshall a set of collective resources of group - and use those resources to do thing that benefit the group.

Giving the homeless houses does not benefit me and it's unfair to everyone else that paid for their own house.

If you have basic level of human decency, and empathy you can appreciate that homelessness is bad that you we need to do something about; the only argument is about how that I achieved.

There's only 1 way to end homelessness; give the homeless free houses. But I don't want my tax dollars going to pay for it. Otherwise, I can deliberately become homeless so the government gives me a free house.

The easiest and cheapest way to end homelessness is to send all the homeless to the houses of people with Bernie Sanders signs in their backyard. All charity should be voluntary.

Topic's author

#42

TheUnderdog

Debates: 5

Posts: 4,340

TheUnderdog

02.28.2022 03:05PM

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@oromagi

Sanders support dropped and avg. of 25% from 2016 to 2020. In Bernie country, the Northwest and Northeast, his support dropped by more than half. If we agree that Bernie is too old to run for office again than Bernie' support in the underage is irrelevant, right?

There are still more Sanders supporters than homeless people.

Feeding our children is one of the first and most traditional American obligations to that General Welfare.

Feeding kids is something the parents should do, not the government. If you can't afford kids, don't breed like rabbits.

Just making it clear that the rightwing ain't rooted in Christian values, in spite of constant claims to those values.

The right wing isn't rooted in theocratic values except on issues like abortion (and most pro birthers don't reference the bible for their abortion ban ideal). There is a difference between being religious and being a theocrat.

But they already did that with a smaller budget. There was less homelessness in the US in the 50's an 60's then just about any other time since NAZI Germany.

Not sure about that.

If you are going to neglect America's indigent then you have no business complaining about crime. There is an absolute and irresolvable relationship between the quality our children's welfare and the national crime rate 20 years later. History is quite indisputable on this point: you can pay now or you can pay much more later but you are very wrong, the problem is impossible to ignore.

How about we don't do anything about the homeless (unless we're housing them in the houses of Bernie Sanders supporters) and if they commit a crime, they get enslaved for their sentence and after that, they get hooked up to a better paying job?

I don't know why you think the homeless are particularly employable. Two thirds are addicts, a third suffer from profound mental diagnoses (almost all of which stem from childhood neglect and violence).

The government rehabs them while in jail and they work off their debt. People with mental disabilities can still work. Elon Musk works and he's autistic.

My State of Colorado spends about $481m on shelters, services, emergency response and healthcare on a population that ranges between 5-10,000

That's bureaucratic waste. That's over $50K/year/person. How about lets stop spending that money?

My state estimates that they can provide a homeless person with a simple studio apt or mobile microhouse for about $12,000/yr. If we can keep basic service under a thousand/month then that's a quarter of what we spend now. If we went back to the old centralized dormitories model we could probably get annual spending below $20,000/year for about a fifth of what we spend now.

And Colorado still has homeless people, implying that the government giving people free shit doesn't help them in the long term.