I recently started a thread : Where do you see the US in a 100 years? Some of the responses were pretty shocking. Complete obliviousness towards global realities & world affairs. I always thought Jay Leno is intentionally picking out the dumbest Americans to feature in his show, like who could possibly think Europe is a country?! There is nothing inherently wrong with not knowing world facts & affairs, as long as the person has good character. But it's curious, why do you think Americans are so ignorant about & detached from the rest of the world? Is it education? Media? Some sense of American centrism? US hegemony? Prosperity?
American Stereotype?
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57
I don't blame you for hating America and your studied anti-Americanism is definitely interesting, but then it's easy to win a battle if your opponent never knew they were in a battle in the first place. That is, you can make a good argument for anything when the other person hasn't ever thought to argue otherwise. Your "global realities" and "world affairs" - impressive as they read - are easily doubted. You're advantaged in being an angry little dude. Fun though, I'll give you that. If only it wasn't for the posts promoting gay-bashing, woman-beating, and paedophilia.
Islam gives a bad name to terrorism.
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@Yassine
But it's curious, why do you think Americans are so ignorant about & detached from the rest of the world? Is it education? Media? Some sense of American centrism? US hegemony? Prosperity?
OBJECTION: Hasty generalization fallacy
Let's agree that DART is not a representative sampling and chud is distorting your analysis with excess drag.
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@badger
I don't blame you for hating America and your studied anti-Americanism is definitely interesting, but then it's easy to win a battle if your opponent never knew they were in a battle in the first place. That is, you can make a good argument for anything when the other person hasn't ever thought to argue otherwise. Your "global realities" and "world affairs" - impressive as they read - are easily doubted.
- Doubt away. Put up or shut up!
You're advantaged in being an angry little dude. Fun though, I'll give you that. If only it wasn't for the posts promoting gay-bashing, woman-beating, and paedophilia.
- I sense a lot anger coming from you, you ok?
Islam gives a bad name to terrorism.
- I'm sure that how you see it from your side, given you love terrorism & Islam is about peace.
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@Yassine
Well I'm an Irishman. We invented terrorism. It's your lot blowing up concerts full of little kids in England though. You won't find any of that done for Ireland.
A much more respectable Manchester bombing for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing
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@badger
Well I'm an Irishman. We invented terrorism. It's your lot blowing up concerts full of little kids in England though.You won't find any of that done for Ireland.A much more respectable Manchester bombing for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing
- I'm bamboozled! A terrorist defending terrorism by attacking terrorism. You all belong with each-other, at the bottomless abyss of society & Hell, for all the immense suffering you caused.
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@oromagi
OBJECTION: Hasty generalization fallacy
- Damn! This ain't a debate. It's a joke thread.
Let's agree that DART is not a representative sampling and chud is distorting your analysis with excess drag.
LOL
I can't believe you just called me a terrorist.
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@badger
0_0
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@Yassine
The world, politics, statistics, economics, legislation, happenings, importance of events, ramifications, are complicated.
Nevermind 100 years,
Changes occurring in the span of 5 or 10 years, can surprise people.
(Below is Joke video, as my initial thought when I read American Stereotype, was jokes)
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@Yassine
@badger
Everyone thinks that everyone else lives somewhere else other than here.
Well, not everyone does.
And terror is em,
Largely,
Testosterone fuelled fantasy,
Devolved from the Churches,
Parents,
Schools,
And the playground.
Then there are media generated American stereotypes.
Though when I visited,
People we generally very ordinary and polite.
Just like in the U.K.
Perhaps the media has a tendency to promote the exaggerated vainglorious fringes of society.
Now why would they do that?
Arrogance is no substitute for knowledge
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@Lemming
The world, politics, statistics, economics, legislation, happenings, importance of events, ramifications, are complicated.Nevermind 100 years,Changes occurring in the span of 5 or 10 years, can surprise people.
- What's your short or medium term prediction then?
(Below is Joke video, as my initial thought when I read American Stereotype, was jokes)
- HAHAHHAHA! Hilarious...
People bashing other countries first need to look inside their own
@RationalMadman
Arrogance is no substitute for knowledge
- Then do more knowing & less arrogating.
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@RationalMadman
Arrogance is a substitute for ignorance,
And certainty in ones own knowledge is confidence,
And confidence might appear to be arrogance,
If one is ignorant and lacks confidence.
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@Yassine
I think it's possible,
America will grow more socialist in the future,
That further individual rights I like such as guns shall be lost,
That the Abrahamic religion in America will lose 'some ground,
'Might be that people will support Democratic Ideology stronger in the future,
I think America will make at least 'small steps towards alternate forms of energy,
I think angry poor people might start up violence against the elite, at some point,
I think that meat substitute products will grow more common,
The existence of nukes, makes me doubtful are large scale 'military wars, instead there may be Cold Wars, Cyber Wars, Culture Wars,
I think America will lose bits of it's projected military power, as some countries look to exert greater autonomy and power.
Just off the hip thoughts though,
Likely many will turn out incorrect.
Hm, also doesn't seem to be anything 'happy in there, ah well.
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@Yassine
I'll be the first to give you a genuine answer. The reason why Americans are so ignorant to their decline is because of their founding psychology. This country was founded by expelled religious groups who had theological ties to Judaism such as the Puritans, Quakers, Mennonites, etc. Thus, they considered America the new "promised land", the "New Jerusalem", and the "city on a hill" given to them by God. These groups did not believe in the divinity or the importance of Christ, which Catholics believed in, so they developed their theology on strictly Old Testament jew ideas such as those mentioned above. Hell, Cromwell even wanted to rebuild Solomon's temple. Mormons believe the kingdom of God will be in Missouri. This idea of America as the grand promised land outlined in the OT is so ingrained in the American conscious that it's impossible to remove and even modern presidents like Reagan spoke about it. So, they say nothing can be wrong with America, it's the promised land.
Next you have the ideology and identity that is connected to America. Americans wrongly assume that America was the bringer of democracy, free speech, freedom, and light into the world full of dark, absolutist regimes. Of course these Whig history ideas are total nonsense but the vast majority of Americans believe in it still today and it was ingrained into the Constitution. So today the ignorant American will say "we have freedom and democracy that no other nation has" because they believe this is what America has always stood for and what America will always stand for. So the American identity is a civic identity, not a cultural identity. The French identity is Catholic from the Greco-Roman tradition with French language and culture with a common homeland in France. The Spanish identity is Catholic from the Greco-Roman tradition with Spanish language and culture with a common homeland in Spain. The Russian identity is orthodox from the Slavic tradition with Russian language and culture with a common homeland in Russia. American identity is freedom, guns, democracy, etc with no established culture and language. As a result, America has a much harder time comprehending their decline. They don't realize that culture is what actually matters, and not civic ideas such as freedom. While Spaniards can openly denounce their form of government because their identity doesn't revolve around it, Americans can not because their identity is centered around the classical liberal government that they created. By form of government, I don't mean the current leaders. I mean the system. Falangists, who want to install a fascist strongman, are still popular in democratic Spain but those ideas are completely unthinkable in an America where both of the major 2 parties respect the form of republican government.
So what do you have now? You have a population that is being demographically replaced, fat, addicted to drugs and porn, hedonistic, financially unstable, and downright evil but they don't realize this decline because "at least we still have our civic principles of freedom, democracy, the free market and the Constitution". So these people continue to worship the military and veterans who fight for literally nothing except bringing liberalism to hostile, conservative populations. They continue to say that America has freedom, military power, and a democratic government when every single fucking trend in the country suggests otherwise. They spend 600 billion on the military that fights wars in a country most people haven't heard of because of libertarian civic ideas and then turn around and say that we can't have Medicare because it's too expensive for government finances. They say "fight the Muslims over there" and then proceed to let in millions of Muslims to western nations. And the worst part is that SO MANY Americans still believe this. They continue to believe that the biggest threat are those DEMONKRAT SOCIALLISTZ while their son is a porn-addicted loser. They continue to think that the biggest threat is CHINA while their own country dies because of CULTURAL CHANGES.
America is dead, and I for one am happy to accept our new Chinese overlords.
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@Dr.Franklin
I'll be the first to give you a genuine answer. The reason why Americans are so ignorant to their decline is because of their founding psychology. This country was founded by expelled religious groups who had theological ties to Judaism such as the Puritans, Quakers, Mennonites, etc. Thus, they considered America the new "promised land", the "New Jerusalem", and the "city on a hill" given to them by God. These groups did not believe in the divinity or the importance of Christ, which Catholics believed in, so they developed their theology on strictly Old Testament jew ideas such as those mentioned above. Hell, Cromwell even wanted to rebuild Solomon's temple. Mormons believe the kingdom of God will be in Missouri. This idea of America as the grand promised land outlined in the OT is so ingrained in the American conscious that it's impossible to remove and even modern presidents like Reagan spoke about it. So, they say nothing can be wrong with America, it's the promised land.
- This was an interesting read. Huh! I know about the Mormons & the general "God loves us"... but it's interesting how founding conditions can shape future culture like that. This actually explains why some republicans I know think of the US Constitution as an extension of the Bible.
Next you have the ideology and identity that is connected to America. Americans wrongly assume that America was the bringer of democracy, free speech, freedom, and light into the world full of dark, absolutist regimes. Of course these Whig history ideas are total nonsense but the vast majority of Americans believe in it still today and it was ingrained into the Constitution. So today the ignorant American will say "we have freedom and democracy that no other nation has" because they believe this is what America has always stood for and what America will always stand for. So the American identity is a civic identity, not a cultural identity. The French identity is Catholic from the Greco-Roman tradition with French language and culture with a common homeland in France. The Spanish identity is Catholic from the Greco-Roman tradition with Spanish language and culture with a common homeland in Spain. The Russian identity is orthodox from the Slavic tradition with Russian language and culture with a common homeland in Russia. American identity is freedom, guns, democracy, etc with no established culture and language. As a result, America has a much harder time comprehending their decline. They don't realize that culture is what actually matters, and not civic ideas such as freedom. While Spaniards can openly denounce their form of government because their identity doesn't revolve around it, Americans can not because their identity is centered around the classical liberal government that they created. By form of government, I don't mean the current leaders. I mean the system. Falangists, who want to install a fascist strongman, are still popular in democratic Spain but those ideas are completely unthinkable in an America where both of the major 2 parties respect the form of republican government.
- Indeed, Decadence is a human condition that all civilizations inevitably reach after long periods of prosperity, yet it is their last stop. As Ibn Khaldun explains, Stability leads to saving, which drive consumption, which initiates demand for luxury, which drives innovation, which leads to prosperity, & then further luxury, resulting in indulgence, from there decadence, decadence induces corruption, & corruption leads to oppression, hence death.
So what do you have now? You have a population that is being demographically replaced, fat, addicted to drugs and porn, hedonistic, financially unstable, and downright evil but they don't realize this decline because "at least we still have our civic principles of freedom, democracy, the free market and the Constitution". So these people continue to worship the military and veterans who fight for literally nothing except bringing liberalism to hostile, conservative populations. They continue to say that America has freedom, military power, and a democratic government when every single fucking trend in the country suggests otherwise. They spend 600 billion on the military that fights wars in a country most people haven't heard of because of libertarian civic ideas and then turn around and say that we can't have Medicare because it's too expensive for government finances. They say "fight the Muslims over there" and then proceed to let in millions of Muslims to western nations. And the worst part is that SO MANY Americans still believe this. They continue to believe that the biggest threat are those DEMONKRAT SOCIALLISTZ while their son is a porn-addicted loser. They continue to think that the biggest threat is CHINA while their own country dies because of CULTURAL CHANGES.
- I have a lot to say about all this stuff, maybe I'll start a new thread. But indeed, the US is built for the rich & immediate self-gratification.
America is dead, and I for one am happy to accept our new Chinese overlords.
- What change or action do you believe needs to happen to avoid this daunting outcome?
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@Dr.Franklin
Nice one Doc.
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@zedvictor4
Sure, if you believe the nonsense he typed. He has not studied the history he prides himself on if he thinks the social democrats and their porn-addicted sons are the main reasons America is struggling.
The reason all nations except social democracies have countless social issues is that they aren't even trying to solve them, they'd rather be wealthy than care or 'strong' than care etc.
These countries that Yassine celebrates are all so chock-full of social and societal issues that they will genuinely never develop until they make more secular and well-reasoned compromises. Saudi Arabia recently allowed women to drive, yet it only allowed a woman to run in the olympics if she wore the full gear in the heat of a British Summer in 2012, I don't need to tell you that she lost and was on the verge of collapsing.
This mentality and ethos needs to first be dealt with, they need a basic respect for all forms of life (even animals) not just say they do but show it through action and then they can begin to speak ill of nations that do that more than them.
The US doesn't do it nearly as much as some other highly developed nations, it needs to at least partially subsidise its healthcare, the fact a poor person needs to be scared to even get an appointment to get checked for something, due to the cost, is a massive issue on its own.
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@zedvictor4
You can know and be capable and still be arrogant, it's about how untouchable and invincible you feel in your haughty position and stance(s). Yassine presumes that everybody else needs to continually prove him wrong and he can just type whatever baseless opinion he fancies and slap on some names of a couple Islamic scholars and therefore he's somehow proven that the US is crap, western europe is crap and that only dictatorships like China (which loathes Islam and is using the Taliban as a political pawn) are somehow superior and stronger.
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@RationalMadman
Maybe yours and Yassines mutual antipathy is stereotypically representative of your formative conditionings.
Interestingly, you both think different versions of the same thing.
Based upon cultural and theistic divergence and human migration.
From my point of view, I would suggest that Yassine is somewhat more confident than you, thereby your unease with the situation manifests in the form of criticism.
Just an observation.
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@zedvictor4
He has done nothing but criticise.
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@zedvictor4
Don't think Britain gets off any easier
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@RationalMadman
He has not studied the history he prides himself on if he thinks the social democrats and their porn-addicted sons are the main reasons America is struggling.
You got it wrong. Social democrats are not the reason, porn and other cultural changes are, but because they don't threaten libertarian civic ideas, nobody cares
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@Yassine
This was an interesting read. Huh! I know about the Mormons & the general "God loves us"... but it's interesting how founding conditions can shape future culture like that. This actually explains why some republicans I know think of the US Constitution as an extension of the Bible.
Oh yeah, tons of people believe that the Constitution was an extension of God's Covenant and that it is the actual government for Christians. Again, this is an OT theme. Of course it's incorrect because it was actually based on Enlightenment deist ideas
- Indeed, Decadence is a human condition that all civilizations inevitably reach after long periods of prosperity, yet it is their last stop. As Ibn Khaldun explains, Stability leads to saving, which drive consumption, which initiates demand for luxury, which drives innovation, which leads to prosperity, & then further luxury, resulting in indulgence, from there decadence, decadence induces corruption, & corruption leads to oppression, hence death.
Have you heard of Tytler's Cycle? It is really actually similar to the Islamic philosopher you named. It basically argues that democracy is a cycle. It begins with courage, bondage and tight knit communities. Then, they receive liberty and the society prospers financially but has overabundance. As a result, "liberty" is reshaped meaning "do whatever you want to do" and immorality spreads through the land. And then, decadence and death. Here is a good summary. It is fascinating to see different cultures can come up with the same conclusion on ideas.
- What change or action do you believe needs to happen to avoid this daunting outcome?
A lot. But to summarize, there just needs to be courage and awareness. Awareness of the fact that America is declining and courage to fight it. Unfortunately I am not very hopeful, especially when are means to fight back are completely castrated. There is basically no political solution as congress is a rigged game determined by the plutocracy.
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@Dr.Franklin
Porn is the most ancient entertainment on Earth, it just used to be belly dancers, sketch artists and prostitutes.